HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 04-18-01
Carmel/Clay Technical Advisory Committee Minutes
April 18, 2001
9:00 a.m.
Members present:
Laurence Lillig – Carmel DOCSJohn South – Ham. Co. Soil & Water
Scott Brewer – Carmel Urban Forester Chuck Shupperd – Indiana Gas
Steve Cash – Ham. Co. Surveyor John Lester – Carmel Parks
Dick Hill – Carmel Eng. Gary Hoyt – Carmel Fire Dept.
Steve Broermann – Ham. Co. Highway Bill Akers – Carmel Communications
Jeff Kendall – Carmel Permit Services Rick McClain – Cinergy
Jon Dobosiewicz – Carmel DOCS Sharon Prater –Panhandle E. Pipeline
Jim Foster – Carmel Fire Dept.
Meijer Convenience Store (39-01 ADLS; 39-01a ZW)
The site is located on the northeast corner of West Carmel Drive and Pennsylvania
Parkway. The site is zoned OM/M (Old Meridian/Meijer district).
Filed by Paul G. Reis of The Reis Law Firm for Meijer, Inc.
The case was presented by Attorney Paul Reis. He introduced Mark Monroe, Reis Law
Firm, and Lynn Richardson, Meijer, and Bob Olson, CSO. The site is in the southwest
corner of the overall parcel. A convenience store with fueling station is proposed. Future
development is also shown. The two points of access are the existing north curb cut on
Pennsylvania Street and the existing curb cut on Carmel Drive. This second cut is just
east of the proposed building. Mr. Reis invited questions from TAC members.
Dick Hill stated it appears there will be only one Board of Public Works requirement for
addition sewer capacity. There will be more fees. The Ordinance tables determined the
calculations. However, if the petitioner can provide one year of bills from other locations
of similar size that are metered separately, Mr. Hill will consider those fees. The sanitary
lateral needs to go to the structure. Bob Olsen responded that John Duffy said this would
be a direct tap. Mr. Hill agreed that will be fine.
Chuck Shupperd understands the project will use gas for heating. He can extend the gas
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main up 126 Street.
Rick McClain said if three phases are used, an easement may be required.
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Scott Brewer sent a letter dealing mostly with specie selection and plan details. He has
not seen a revised plan. Bob Olsen apologized and gave Mr. Brewer a copy of the
revision.
Jim Foster, Carmel Fire Department, accompanied Gary Hoyt to the meeting. Mr. Hoyt
sent a letter to Paul Reis requesting a Knox box. However, if the convenience store is
open 24 hours and is manned by more than one person, the Knox box is not necessary.
Mrs. Richardson does not know the size of the underground tanks. The store will also be
providing propane exchange at the corner of the building.
Bill Akers wrote letter to Mark Monroe. The convenience store address on the plat is
incorrect. It should be 1426. The Meijer store should be 1424. They need to change the
addresses; the old ones are confusing for the fire department.
Jon Dobosiewicz believes the multiple number of access points create a difficulty and the
potential for accidents. Paul Reis has spoken with Bob Olsen about this and has he
engineering concerns. Mr. Reis stated there are plenty of parking spaces for both
structures. Jon Dobosiewicz suggested removing the existing island with two trees at the
north side and squaring that area off with the islands that are proposed to the south. This
would reduce the number of driveway cuts in and out. Lynn Richardson needs to think
about his idea. Bob Olsen still believes that it results in an engineering problem. The
petitioner wishes to avoid situations that cause vehicles to back up. Jon Dobosiewicz
does not suggest that design. Closing the area off will create a large triangular space.
About 20 to 30 spaces would be lost resulting in a lawn area. But, if the petitioner is not
concerned about the number of spaces, this should be okay. Paul Reis requested a
separate meeting with Jon Dobosiewicz to discuss the matter. Mr. Dobosiewicz drew a
sketch of the modification. Lynn Richardson believes this may adversely affect fuel
tankers. A lot of space is required for the trucks’ turning radius. Mr. Dobosiewicz
clarified that this is his suggestion. If it does not provide practical movement, it becomes
unfeasible. However, something must be done to eliminate the number of ingress/egress
points. Lynn Richardson remained concerned about the flow for drive-in traffic and will
discuss the matter with Bob Olsen.
Meridian at 465 - Heart Hospital and Medical Office Building (42-01 DP/ADLS)
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The site is located at the southwest corner of West 106 Street and U.S. 31. The site
is zoned B-6/business within the US 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Paul G. Reis of The Reis Law Firm for REI Investments, Inc.
Attorney Paul Reis presented this plan and introduced Mark Monroe from his law firm,
Julie Hall Christensen, REI Investments, Inc., Glenn Hoge, Bremner & Wiley, Inc., and
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Bob Doster, Schneider Corporation. Mr. Reis cited the location near 106 Street and US
31. The petitioner wishes to construct a new heart hospital with associate medical office
building, retention pond, and large parking area. There are two sets of plans; one with a
parking structure and one with surface parking only. The dynamics of the hospital are
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being examined to determine parking needs. The plans show an emergency room (ER)
entry. However, this is not a typical emergency room. It is primarily a chest pain center.
If EMS has a patient with heart attack symptoms, the person needs to be taken to another
hospital. Normally, emergency patients will be taken to one of the St. Vincent Hospitals.
Heart Hospital is not a full-fledge emergency hospital. Julie Christensen clarified the
issue of the parking garage. The question is not whether the garage is needed with the
current design. Rather, the question centers around if this hospital will expand by one
floor in the future to provide additional patient volume. If it is, then they need to build a
garage now. Business decisions will be made at the last minute.
Jay Alley, Utility Manager, Clay Township Regional Waste District, was not in
attendance but asked to have his following comments presented at the meeting.
“We have received plans and the District’s consulting engineers have completed a
preliminary review. Dedication of the existing sewers will be a condition of CTRWD
permit connection approval. The developer has been in contact with the District on this
issue but the dedication process is not complete. Building permits should NOT be issued
without the District’s connection permit.”
Dick Hill was not prepared with comments but will write them as soon as possible.
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Chuck Shupperd has a gas line on 106 Street. Both buildings will be constructed at the
same time. The projected start date is June 2001.
Rick McClain inquired about the need for two circuit feeds. Bob Doster indicated one
feed is required for the hospital on the south side of the property and a separate feed for
the medical office building in a service interior courtyard. Discussion followed regarding
the advisability of two separate feeds for the hospital; there is no guarantee with a
transformer. Rick McClain gave the petitioners his card and suggested a meeting.
Steve Cash sent a letter yesterday. This property is within the City Engineer’s
jurisdiction. However, Mr. Cash recommends a safety ledge on the pond. No permits are
required from his office.
Scott Brewer has not written a letter; he will do so next week.
John South recommended using the existing ravine at the north end of the parcel as a dry
detention basin and locating a parking lot on the west side of Illinois Street. The wooded
ravine has aesthetic value and the sanitary and storm systems would not need to be
relocated. If the current site plan is utilized, the erosion control plan needs to be
improved. The erosion and sediment control plan does not address how sediment and
water will be prevented from entering the drainage ditch. A storm pipe will have to be
installed early in the process. It would eliminate the existing ditch and must be noted in
the plan. One possibility would be to do this before a lot of grading occurs at the site.
Bob Doster agreed. John South wants this to be made very clear to the contractor. Mr.
Doster said he would do so.
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Jeff Kendall will issue a foundation release when a state foundation permit is granted.
Sandy Sanders received a package of information addressing permit procedures at
Carmel. Additionally, there will be a pre-submittal meeting before the permit is issued.
Only a foundation release from the state will be required to begin work.
Gary Hoyt would like two additional fire hydrants at the northeast and southeast corners
to provide water access for all sides of the hospital. A dry standpipe system will be
required by code for the parking garage. The riser rooms need an exterior access and
Knox box. Fire department connection caps for the Siamese connection of the sprinkler
system are requested. This avoids obstruction for the fire department. The hospital needs
a roof top Siamese connection. Also, an area separation wall is required between the
medical office building and the hospital. The building needs a roof top manifold. This
will not be a complete emergency room. They will also accept cardiac patients. Julie
Christensen said it would be an eight to ten bed hospital. It will be important to educate
ambulance and emergency companies. The signage will indicate “chest pain” specialty.
Jim Foster suggested the petitioners contact community medical directors. At this point
in the process, this is just a real estate negotiation.
Bill Akers has assigned two addresses and will send a letter. The heart hospital will use
10575 Illinois Street. The medical office building has been assigned the address number
10585. Ms. Christensen requested a Meridian Street address. Bill Akers declined
because it does not access off Meridian. He considers the road of access and where the
building faces when assigning an address. Julie Christensen stated Meridian Street was a
selling point to locate here. She wants to explore the address. Numerals should be on the
face of the building, the west façade.
John Lester knows that along the Illinois side to the west, there is a five-foot sidewalk
being installed by the City. It should be on the plans. A ten-foot asphalt path is required
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on 106 Street. The petitioner can check with Dick Hill or Laurence Lillig to determine
placement. Typically, it is five feet off. On the east side of their property, which is the
west side of Illinois Street, it is a five-foot concrete sidewalk. Carmel is installing it on
the north part. Mr. Lester does not know about their property. Dick Hill will look into
the matter.
Laurence Lillig stated the thoroughfare plan calls for a 10-foot asphalt multi-use path.
He inquired about the right of way shown for Illinois Street. The thoroughfare plan calls
for a 120 full right of way with a 60-foot half. Bob Doster thinks they show a 60-foot
half. Mr. Lillig asked him to check and get back with Jon Dobosiewicz. The site plan
may be affected. Variances for parking in the US 31 front yard and a service berth that
faces 31 have been recently applied for by the petitioner.
Julie Christensen stated their parking is sufficient without expansion. But when planning
was complete, they realized the need for 10 more feet of right of way. The parking is
within the right of way; a variance is needed. Prior to the adoption of the new ordinance,
two office buildings were approved. The petitioner realizes there are new rules.
However, they need the variance to meet Carmel requirements. Laurence Lillig asked if
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there is a parking garage, whether the variance unnecessary. Ms. Hall responded that
they hoped to get a decision on the garage need very soon. He also inquired why there is
a service bay on Meridian frontage. The petitioner tried numerous alternate plans to
relocate the service area. However, the hospital is designed from the inside out. They
could not find another situation that worked. The service area would have a very
attractive door. Trucks could go inside and close the door. Dietary needs are provided
by panel trucks. Compactors, not trash dumpsters, will be used. Outside dumpsters will
be eliminated. There is atrium space just north of the tower; it is a single story. Jon
Dobosiewicz is trying to find logic to support their request. The petitioner must portray
their need to the Board of Zoning Appeals. The 31 Overlay calls for a more massive
appearance of building along the corridor. Mr. Dobosiewicz stated portraying the option
of the parking garage is almost a solution to the parking variance.
Laurence Lillig stated the Illinois Street build-to line is another issue. He wants to
discuss this with other staff members and believes the US 31 build-to line takes
precedence.
Jon Dobosiewicz asked if the first floor expanding out from the rest of the main created a
hardship for the fire department to provide service. Gary Hoyt said it did not. The fire
department does not want to have the drive eliminated. It needs to be able to service all
four sides of the project. Mr. Hoyt requested a meeting to talk about where fire
department connections will be on the buildings.
Jon Dobosiewicz stated another argument with respect to the encroachment is the
department request to see the additional right of way along Illinois Street. Julie
Christensen inquired about giving the City the additional right of way if they will move
Illinois Street anyway. Mr. Dobosiewicz is willing to explore the issue with the
Engineering Department. Ms. Christensen needs to check if an additional 10 feet added
is enough. Paul Reis does not think it looks like there is not enough room. There is a
mature line of trees. Julie Christensen requested that the Department consider their need
for two median cuts.
Gradle Industrial Park - Matrix Development, LLC Construction Plans
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The site is located at 1010 3 Avenue Southwest. The site is zoned I-1/industrial.
Filed by Mark Settlemeyer of Cornerstone Surveys for Matrix Development, LLC.
Mark Settlemeyer introduced Steve Schutz and Scott Schutz of Matrix Development.
The petitioner proposes to build a two-story office complex on a site that is already
developed. There is an existing two-story office building. The new building will be
12,000 square feet with a warehouse on the first floor. Each floor has 6,000 square feet.
An additional warehouse storage building is proposed behind the structure to hold
equipment. There will be additional paving. However, with on-site storage the release
drainage will be less than the current amount.
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John Lester had no comments.
Dick Hill has not reviewed the plans. He has looked at the project previously with Mark
Settlemeyer and Steve Schutz. Regarding the driveway, they will wait until the pipe is
installed. Mr. Hill will try to review the plans tomorrow.
Chuck Shupperd has a gas line on this street. He requested they call for service when
needed.
Rick McClain asked if the existing building is three phase. Mr. Settlemeyer did not
know. There will be a charge for the proposed electrical underground. The new building
will be single phase. Mr. McClain needs easements for the two different buildings. They
will discuss the matter later.
Steve Case sent a letter. He needs a permit for discharging into the watershed. There
will be a $150.00 fee.
Scott Brewer asked what landscaping is planned. Mark Settlemeyer responded that only
foundation plantings are planned. Mr. Brewer requested those plans. He will make
comments on specie selections.
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John South sent a letter to Mark Settlemeyer. It appears the project will drain into 3
Avenue SW during the grading process. A diversion ditch or berm is needed.
Gary Hoyt understands a sprinkler system is not planned. He stated the building code
requires a system for projects that are more than one story and over 5,000 square feet in
size. Mr. Hoyt requested a Knox box. Mark Settlemeyer stated it would be located near
the service door.
Bill Akers said the address was assigned to Bill Solenberger previously.
Laurence Lillig understands there is no plan for sidewalks. John Lester stated there is
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not. There is a path on the eastside of 3 Avenue. Mr. Lillig asked if it would be
desirable to have a connection to Carmel Drive. Mr. Lester thinks it would be
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advantageous to have it on the eastside. Dick Hill thinks 3 Avenue may be widened in
the future. Laurence Lillig asked for elevations to check the height; he will calculate
parking spaces. The setbacks are good. Mark Settlemeyer stated the warehouses are just
for storage. No employees will work there. Laurence Lillig suggested connecting with
the parking lot to the south. This would provide better circulation off the street. Jon
Dobosiewicz had no comments.
The petitioner has not received comments regarding sanitary and water. Dick Hill will
check into this.
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Merchants' Pointe, Lot 2 - O'Charley's (40-01 ADLS)
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The site is located southwest of East 116 Street and Keystone Avenue. The site is
zoned B-8/business.
Filed by Byron Bohrman of Design and Engineering, PC.
Merchants' Pointe, Lot 3 - Longhorn Steakhouse (41-01 ADLS)
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The site is located southwest of East 116 Street and Keystone Avenue. The site is
zoned B-8/business.
Filed by Warren Koch of WD Partners.
These two cases were discussed together.
Jim Nelson presented information on lots 2 and 3. Two restaurants are proposed. This is
a continuation of development within Merchants Pointe.
Dick Hill wrote a letter late yesterday. Phil Warrenberg stated the performance
guarantees have not been filed. He will check on the status. If the petitioner wants to use
the exiting facilities for water and sewer, it will be helpful to know the Equivalent
Dwelling Unit Ordinance (EDU) is based on the number of seats in the restaurant. This
matter needs to be resolved before the connection or availability are approved. Mr.
Warrenberg believes the plat will be ready by June 1. He said both facilities design their
own infra structure. Weihe Engineering pours the pad, brings the utilities to the pad, and
does final coordination. Negotiation of which contractor does what has not been
accomplished. There will be two site utility plans. There will be perimeter on-site plans
up to pad and plans showing the building with stubs. Each will do their own landscape
plan. Mr. Warrenberg will do the perimeter landscape plan. However, it has not been
tied together indicating who does what. Phil Warrenberg will take care of this. There is
time before final plans. The petitioner needs to contact the Board of Public Works
regarding irrigation. The lights and irrigation will be in the median.
Chuck Shupperd will provide gas service. Phil Warrenberg requested an 8-inch main on
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116 Street. They will need a cross before the street project. It needs to be exposed at
both entrances. Mr. Shupperd will check on this.
Rick McClain requires a call from both projects when they need service. The petitioner
hopes to begin in June or July.
Chuck Shupperd has the load requirements for the other restaurants within the franchises.
Steve Cash requires no permits.
Scott Brewer did not write a letter yet. Longhorn Steakhouse’s planting note should also
require approval from the urban forester for any substitutions. Mr. Brewer will have
comments on the revised plan. Sweet gum trees installed in the median are not a good
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choice. Some green space areas were taken out. They were compensated with the
median, but there is no parking lot landscaping between the two restaurants. Scott
Brewer wants something in the area if possible. Phil Warrenburg responded they
compensated on the west side of O’Charley’s by adding a strip there. Mr. Brewer noted
there are only foundation plantings on O’Charley’s plan. But, on the combined site plan
for landscaping, the landscape islands that are located just to the west of O'Charley’s are
not labeled. They need to be labeled on one plan or the other. A note must be provided
on the plans indicating that guy wires and stakes will be removed after one year. Planting
details are needed.
John South stated Lot 3 is okay. He does not know if the silt fence is needed along the
pad. They might retain it to contain trash. On Lot 2, O’Charley’s, notes are needed
regarding erosion control and keeping mud off the street. There should also be notes for
the contractors. The Longhorn Steakhouse statements must be added to the O’Charley’s
plan. Phil Warrenberg agreed to do that.
Gary Hoyt sent letters to Phil Warrenberg. Mr. Warrenberg will check if the State of
Indiana requires restaurants with a liquor license to be sprinkled. Longhorn Restaurant is
not sprinkled. Mr. Hoyt wants a Knox box for each building. The fire suppression
system plan must be sent to the State and Gary Hoyt needs a set of plans for his files.
The set up is good for the fire department. It the building is sprinkled, he wants an
exterior access to the riser room. Otherwise, a Knox box at the front door is sufficient.
Bill Akers commented there are two different street names on the respective plans for
Longhorn Steakhouse and O’Charley’s. It was changed to Pointe Parkway. Mr. Akers
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will check this. Two address, both off of 116 Street, have been assigned. O’Charley’s
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address will be 2293 East 116 Street and Longhorn Steakhouse’s will be 2355 East 116
Street. Mr. Warrenberg requested addresses for all the lots. Mr. Akers will provide the
list. The zip code for all addresses is 46032.
Jon Dobosiewicz said most issues were addressed last week while reviewing the ADLS
petition. The overall plan must be matched with each individual use. Phil Warrenberg
agreed to do that. Mr. Dobosiewicz commented there is a narrow space at the end of the
parking rows. This area will be stripped; it is not for parking. There are enough parking
spaces. The 32 additional spaces available for cross access parking are provided for the
tenants, not to meet the City’s regulations. The total number of spaces is over the
Ordinance requirements.
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Bill Akers understands the restaurants will face 116 Street. Addresses should be
indicated above the entrance doors.
Merchants' Square - Donatos Pizza (42-01 ADLS)
The site is located at 1422 Keystone Way East. The site is zoned B-8/business and is
located partially within the SR 431/Keystone Avenue Overlay Zone.
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Filed by Kevin Cavanaugh for Donatos Pizza Restaurant.
George Lucas and Kevin Cavanaugh represented Donatos Pizza for their project on
Keystone Way. The existing building will be demolished. A new Donatos structure will
be erected almost in the same place as the existing building. The parking lot will be
resurfaced, most utilities will be reconnected, new landscaping will be installed, and
Donatos will reopen with pizza service in the same location. Packages were sent to TAC
members containing typical building elevations, signage, lighting, landscape, and
building plans. Building elevations are “typical” and some signs are not a part of this
project. The signage requested is in excess of the Ordinance. The petitioner will apply
for a variance.
Dick Hill has not reviewed plans.
Chuck Shupperd has not investigated the site. If there is existing service, Mr. Shupperd
will retire it during construction and rerun service at the appropriate time.
Rick McClain did not see the demolition plan. There is a large transformer to the
northwest of the building and an access drive along the north side. The transformer is off
site and not in the way. Kevin Cavanaugh said the plan is to reconnect the services.
Steve Cash stated the project is out of his jurisdiction. No permits are required.
John South wrote a letter. An NOI for Rule 5 is not required. An erosion control plan
must be submitted. George Lukas agreed to do so.
Jeff Kendall asked the petitioner to work with Scott Brewer about any site issues. The
Donatos on 421 had some problems.
Scott Brewer did not write a comment letter yet. The plans should indicate that stakes
and guy wires would be removed after one year. No foundation plants are listed. He
would like these specified on the front and side. The plans should show where annuals
will be planted. The front landscaping will be replaced. No shade trees are listed. There
are maples but they are small. A larger shade tree is needed. Some green space is being
lost because of the drive thru window. Mr. Brewer may have comments about additional
plants to compensate for that space. To the west, on the north side there is an area that is
existing riprap and gravel. They will seed as much of it as possible and maintain the
gravel and riprap that exists. There are some evergreen trees not included on the plan.
Mr. Brewer would like to maintain some of the trees and shrubs as buffer plantings.
There are utilities in these areas that might impact plantings. Mr. Brewer viewed a photo
of the lot line. He thinks it might be possible to do some planting. He will write a letter.
John South believes the petitioner had difficulty finding outlets for the storm water
detention base. Part of the site was served by dry wells. That may be the reason the
petitioner is not finding any connections in the area. There is a 15-inch pipe along the
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west side of Keystone Way. They want to tie into those and not allow any run off to
leave the site.
Gary Hoyt would like a Knox box at the front entrance.
Bill Akers stated because this is a preexisting site, the address has been assigned. The
address should be on the front of the building. This is important for medical or fire
service. Donatos typically puts the address and name of the town on the glazing over the
entry way. That is acceptable.
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Laurence Lillig stated the street on the plan should be Keystone Way “East”
Jon Dobosiewicz commented that the four parking spaces shown at the rear need to be 9’
X 20’. Installation of the low growing shrub Japanese barberry does not provide a
barrier. He suggested the elimination of shrubs and installation of a shadowbox fence
between the evergreens and the dumpster pad. Taller growing arbor vitae could be
planted. The additional signs need a variance. The design feature of the metal roof
should be addressed when the matter is heard at committee. Kevin Cavanaugh believes
this is an isolated property. Laurence Lillig stated the other properties were developed in
the late 1970s and early 1980s. The Plan Commission will want more now. On the north
side of the property, there is a shared drive with MCL. Mr. Lillig suggested the
establishment of an access easement to accommodate the drive. Kevin Cavanaugh will
research this matter. Laurence Lillig stated it is important to establish maintenance
responsibility. On the photometric, there are areas in excess along the south property
line. The intensity should be 0.3; it is up to 1.2 on one stretch and .9 on another.
Similarly, on Keystone Way East it is 0. 5 but the Department could live with that. Jon
Dobosiewicz said some of the fixtures are flared out; reflectors or shields could be used.
They have spillage instead of lighting directly on the parking lot. Laurence Lillig will
look at their signage details and advise about variances required.
Dan Young Chevrolet (ADLS)
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The site is located northeast of East 96 Street and Keystone Avenue. The site is
zoned B-3/business and is located partially within the SR 431/Keystone Avenue
Overlay Zone.
Filed by Charles D. Frankenberger of Nelson & Frankenberger for D. Young
Chevrolet, LLC.
Charlie Frankenberger represented Dan Young Chevrolet in connection with their request
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to make revisions to the buildings at the northeast corner of 96and Keystone Avenue.
Also in attendance were: Al Young, Dan Young Chevrolet, Chuck Kotterman, Optima
Architects, Inc., and Brent Wampter, CBMC. An aerial photo was displayed. A building
will be enlarged and its exterior appearance changed. Another building will be reduced
and its exterior changed. One building will be eliminated. Two other buildings will
remain the same. This matter must go before the Plan Commission for ADLS approval
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because the parcel is within the Keystone Overall Zone. The matter will also be heard by
the Board of Zoning Appeals for the amendment of the Special Use and signage variance.
Dick Hill inquired whether this is strictly ADLS and if there will be more detail later.
Jon Dobosiewicz stated the site work set is complete. Engineering has questions on the
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entrance and right of way on 96 Street. The Board of Public Works must approve the
entrance. Mr. Hill requested more detail of the entrance plan and the topo. Carmel
Utilities will determine if there are additional water and sewer fees. The canopy will not
be used at the entrance. There are bonding requirements for the driveway work that is in
the right of way. The six-foot high block wall is new in this project. There are no
easements along that property line. Mr. Hill does not know the right of way requirement
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along 96 Street. Chuck Shupperd stated he has been working from the ALTA survey.
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There is some question at what point it makes a transition. Dick Hill has the 96 Street
Plan in Engineering. John Lester, Parks Department, asked Laurence Lillig to the
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mention the need for a path along 96 Street. Mr. Lester had to leave for another
meeting. Al Young stated the drainage ditch is deep. An on-site meeting will be
scheduled with John Lester. More engineering site detail will be provided. Jon
Dobosiewicz will determine if an additional TAC hearing is needed.
Steve Cash had no comments.
Scott Brewer did not write a letter. The Overlay requires a 30-foot greenbelt along
Keystone Avenue. Mr. Brewer does not have a landscape plan. The 30-foot greenbelt
does not exist. When the site was designed, this was not a requirement. A 30-foot
greenbelt buffer could not be installed without moving the parking lot and redesigning
the site. Mr. Brewer understands this complexity but assumed they would apply for a
variance or waiver for the requirement. He will work with the petitioner on possible
options. It might be feasible to add landscaping in another area. Charlie Frankenberger
will defer to Laurence Lillig and Jon Dobosiewicz to determine if they were in
compliance when the site was designed. Mr. Frankenberger will respond to Scott
Brewer. The petitioner did not think landscaping was required. He would like the
Department to decide if the property is grandfathered or if a waiver is appropriate. Scott
Brewer will meet with the petitioner on site.
John South added if there are any kind of storm inlets, they should be protected as part of
the erosion control plan.
Jeff Kendall had no comments.
Gary Hoyt understands the building will not be sprinkled nor will there be any fire wall
separations. The building opens into another service area. He requested a Knox box for
the building. One box on the building could also service the truck center and contain a
key for the other building. Al Young inquired about a key for the gate. Mr. Hoyt wants
to look into his idea.
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Bill Akers understands the existing monument sign will be taken down. The new
monument sign should also contain the address. Charlie Frankenberger agreed.
Laurence Lillig stated a greater level of detail is needed for the special use amendment
than the ADLS. Jon Dobosiewicz desires additional engineering detail for the new
entrance. The petitioner will go to BZA for a developmental standards variance for
signage. Mr. Dobosiewicz would like to separate the two issues for the Plan
Commission. They spoke of alternate fences instead of a chain link. The petitioner will
think of other types of fences. The driveway cut to the north will be closed with this
modification of the site. Charlie Frankenberger will meet with Scott Brewer and John
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Lester on site. There will be a follow up meeting on April 26.
Our Lady of Mount Carmel (Special Use Amendment)
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The site is located on the southwest corner of East 146 Street and Oak Ridge Road.
The site is zoned S-1/residence.
Filed by Charles R. Stafford of C. R. Stafford & Associates for Our Lady of Mount
Carmel.
Dick Stafford, C. R. Stafford & Associates, introduced the following individuals: Bill
Snodgrass, Musset, Nicholas & Associates, Inc. mechanical and electrical engineers on
the job, Dan Kuester, DJK, site/civil design, Scott Schutz, Eden Enterprises, Inc.,
Attorney Paul Reis, Ken Remenschneider, Remenschneider Associates, landscape
architect, and Glen Ritchey, Our Lady of Mt. Carmel. Mr. Stafford cited the church
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location at 146 Street, which is being rerouted, and Oak Ridge Road. The existing
church is two levels with 10,000 square feet per level. The shaded area represents the
addition which wraps the building on both the east and southeast. The addition will also
have two levels to match the exiting floor levels. Monsignor Duncan stated in an early
meeting the plan for a new expanded narthex, a new chapel, handicap accessible
restrooms and elevators, and meeting rooms. The addition will total 9,600 square feet per
floor. The zoning is S2 residential. A special use variance is required because the
addition will exceed more than ten percent of the existing structure. Plans for
landscaping and lighting were submitted. There have been preliminary meetings.
John South asked if TAC was reviewing the total site plan or phases of construction.
Mr. Stafford responded there is a complication on the site relating to the relocation of
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146 Street. The activity north of 146 Street falls under Westfield’s jurisdiction. All
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work south of 146 Street is construction of the building. John South stated one plan
shows grading and a detention pond in northeast corner. Dan Kuestner stated that
Schneider Engineering sized the basin as part of the overall plan. He has collected the
roof run off and delivered it properly to the pond. Glen Ritchey hopes the parking lot
will be done in conjunction with the pond. Bill Snodgrass believes when they are ready
to run drainage from the roof out to the basin, the pond will be there. Dick Stafford
stated the plans are for construction to begin mid summer. Work will be for a duration of
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10 to 12 months. The road work might start sooner. The petitioners included the area
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north of 146 Street on the plans to give Carmel a better sense of the site.
Dick Hill had no comments.
Sharon Prater met with Schneider Engineering regarding the entrance off Oak Ridge
Road that needs to be shifted. She cannot allow a detention area to be inside their
easement. Ms. Prater asked that realignment of driveway be reflected accurately and
revision of the pond be shown. The curb cut on Oak Ridge Road loops deeper and falls
on their easement. Ms. Prater stated the intersection, however, is not placed between the
pipelines. The drawings will be updated. The parking summary count indicates a total of
445 but they show a count of 395 spaces. The petitioner is in the plus category.
Laurence Lillig said John Lester asked him to mention the need for sidewalks along Oak
Ridge Road. Paul Reis inquired if this was a request or requirement. Mr. Lillig did not
know; he will speak with Mr. Lester. The sidewalk would be installed on the westside.
The pipeline makes this an issue. Currently, the church is using the address of 1045 West
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146 Street. The original address for Mt. Carmel was 1045 West Gray Road. Gray Road
was addressed off the Carmel grid. Over the years, the use of Gray Road as the common
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name has fallen away. By having a 1000 block address along West 146 Street presents
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a conflict with what is actually the 1000 block of West 146 Street one mile to the west.
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This property is actually East 146 Street. The line for east and west carries straight
north from Meridian Street where the by pass curves. Our Lady of Mt. Carmel falls to
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the east of where the line intersects with 146 Street. Their address conflicts with 146
Street farther south. A meeting is planned to discuss that problem. The church will
probably get a new address. Paul Reis thinks Oak Ridge Road might be a better address
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and Bill Snodgrass agreed. The school uses the address of 1047 West 146 Street. That
address will need to change also.
Steve Cash needs to verify the drainage calculations. He will write a letter.
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Scott Brewer received plans but has not written a letter. The area north of 146 Street
has been approved by the Town of Westfield. There is no buffer landscaping on the
south side of the property next to the rectory and the playground. The Pipeline Company
and the Church would prefer to maintain visual/physical open access to the rectory rather
than a buffer. From the centerline of Oak Ridge Road, there is a 50-foot right of way
setback and a 35-foot front yard setback from that point. Scott Brewer thinks there
should be an opportunity to landscape there. The petitioner needs to find other areas for
landscaping because of these reductions.
John South asked for an erosion control plan that covers the total site work. The
jurisdiction is not an issue because he represents Hamilton County. The entire plan needs
to be approved before the project starts. The petitioner believes the plan has already been
submitted to Westfield for the north side.
Jeff Kendall is working on some building issues and will continue to stay in contact.
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Gary Hoyt spoke to Dick Stafford. Both levels of the addition will be sprinkled. The
petitioner has agreed to utilize the existing path. A Knox box exists. Sprinkler cap
applications are available from Gary Hoyt’s office. Another fire hydrant might be added
in the future. Bill Snodgrass agreed to meet with him to work out those possible
locations.
Bill Akers stated all of his address concerns were covered by Mr. Lillig.
Jon Dobosiewicz asked if the parking would be curbed. Dick Stafford does not know.
There are portions of their parking lot outside of Carmel. There is a new parking area
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that is south of 146 Street. Mr. Dobosiewicz stated Carmel requires parking lots to be
curbed but does not stipulate the type of curbing. He strongly suggests curbing to
improve the parking lot. Jon Dobosiewicz thinks the effect may be awkward if curbing is
terminated outside of the Carmel jurisdiction. Dick Stafford stated the curb configuration
will be defined by stripping. The lanes will also be defined by striping. Mr.
Dobosiewicz thinks this may be an issue as strips over asphalt do not provide traffic
control. This might become a hazard.
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Laurence Lillig asked if their sign will be moved up when the 146 intersection is
realigned. There are no plans to do so at this time. Mr. Lillig believes there may be some
outstanding issues on signage if the sign remains at the present location.
Steve Broermann left the TAC meeting earlier. He asked if the passing lane will be
extended to provide for a blister at the proposed entrance. There will be a decel lane and
passing blister.
Brighton Woods, Section 2 (Secondary Plat)
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The site is located northeast of East 116 Street and Hazel Dell Parkway. The site is
zoned S-1/residence.
Filed by James O. Rinehart IV, of Stoeppelwerth & Associates for Raymond H.
Roehling.
Jim Rinehart presented the plans for Brighton Woods Section 2. Ray Roehling was also
in attendance. The 18 lots are situated on just under nine acres at the northeast corner of
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116 Street and Hazel Dell Parkway.
Dick Hill will get comments to Mr. Rinehart as soon as possible.
Steve Cash stated the internal storm sewers are under City jurisdiction. He did not
receive the outlet request permits for the portion that drains to the Mitchner watershed.
The main comments in Mr. Cash’s letter are in regard to the abandoned regulated drain.
The plans should be relabeled to read “has been abandoned”. Then, the title company
will not be concerned. Mr. Cash suggested crushing or remove the existing tile.
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Otherwise, the pipe will break down later under someone’s yard. The pipe is 15 or 18
inches at the most. The water was inadvertently intercepted by the Hazel Dell Parkway
expansion. It should be noted on the plans that they need to tie into the existing storm
sewer system at lot 29. Jim Rinehart agreed to do that. Mr. Cash asked the petitioner to
tie into other field tiles on site. Ray Roehling said there are not many tiles and may not
be any in the woods. A breather should be installed at the east property line, the eastern
most portion. It continues on into Northwood Hills. A riser should be installed.
Laurence Lillig asked if the legal drain has been abandoned, could it be removed from
plat. Steve Cash would prefer it remain on the plan with a note. This is helpful in the
field. There is no easement for it now. The drain also is abandoned. Laurence Lillig
asked the petitioner to remove it.
Scott Brewer did not get a landscape plan. He only received a tree preservation plan.
Ray Roehling stated there is no entrance there. Common area 4 is not labeled as a tree
preservation area. Ray Roehling responded that covenants prohibit cutting hardwood
trees that are four or six inches or larger in size unless the trees are diseased or dead. The
covenants for Section 2 are the same as Section 1. Laurence Lillig requested another
copy of the covenants for this file.
Jim Rinehart said there is a 15-foot drainage swale easement along the west side. The
Lakes at Hazel Dell worked with the Engineer’s office to provide narrowing rather than a
clear cut. The depth of the swale varies. It is City drainage. Laurence Lillig asked that
the common area be labeled as a drainage easement. The covenants address the tree
preservation in common areas but not individual lots. The trees standing on the unbuilt
lots on Dubarry Drive need attention.
John South wrote a letter. The petitioner needs to crush the old tiles. The erosion control
plan looks fine.
Jeff Kendall had no comments.
Gary Hoyt sent a letter. Dubarry Drive connects to Lakes of Hazel Dell. Then, there will
not be a need for an emergency turn around. Ray Roehling stated there is a hammer head
in the area.
Bill Akers will send addresses to the petitioner. He understands there are only two
sections.
Laurence Lillig asked to have added, on the primary/secondary plat docket number note,
the original primary plat number 60-98 PP. This was the original primary plat number. It
was also 61-98 PP. The original and revised numbers should appear on the plat. The
secondary plat number 45-01 needs to be on the plat. The filing fee is $700. Mr. Lillig
needs a copy of the covenants. Hazel Dell Parkway adjacent to common area 4 needs to
be labeled. A drainage easement on the common area should be labeled. On sheet 1,
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116 Street should be labeled as “East”. The Plan Commission certificate can be
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removed from sheet two. Mr. Lillig has not received many comment letters. He
requested them from the TAC members.
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East 96 Street Auto Park, Block A (part) (Special Use Amendment)
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The site is located northeast of East 96 Street and Randall Drive. The site is zoned
B-3/business.
Filed by Adam L. DeHart of Keeler-Webb Associates.
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Adam DeHart presented the project. It was platted as East 96 Street Auto Park. Lexus
and Tom O’Brien Chrysler are under construction. Earth is being moved at the location.
It has been a wet spring and the crew is trying to move forward. Mr. DeHart will appear
before the Board of Zoning Appeals for a Special Use. It is part of Block A or the
western parcel. A portion is being developed at this time. The remainder of Block A will
remain undeveloped. The building will be leased as professional office space for tenants.
Mr. DeHart is unable at this time to relate contracts or square footage promised. The
floodway has been approved through DRN. The previous BZA approval includes earth
work. Tom Taggart, Trumptington Bldg. Corporation, is directly involved with DYC
Realty. Al Young is the contact person for the Auto Park.
Dick Hill will write a letter. The plat has been approved but he has not received recorded
copies. Adam DeHart affirmed that the plat has been recorded but he did not get a copy
to DOCS. There is a 59-foot right of way. There is a 50-foot requirement for Randall
Road. The two pavement cuts for water and the irrigation system on Randall will be
before Board of Public Works. There will be one cut for the two lines in one boring hole.
Laurence Lillig said a sidewalk is required. The sanitary lateral for building 1 is tied into
the main. Kate Weese wants a top casting or invert on the storm structure just east of
Randall. The proposed contours of the relocated swale must be shown. Mr. Hill will
have more comments as soon he can completely review the project.
Steve Cash had no comments.
Laurence Lillig stated the sidewalk should be drawn all the way down block A. It should
be installed at one time. Getting across the creek is still a question. Along Randall
Drive, the outstanding question is how the sidewalk will affect the street trees. If the
sidewalk is brought down half way, a commitment is required. The sidewalks are to
match Williamson Run. Those sidewalks terminate at the property line. Some sort of jog
will have to be made. Scott Brewer did not receive landscape plans.
Tom Taggart, Trumpington Bldg. Corp., and Ross Roehler, Meridian Real Estate,
arrived.
Mr. Roehler stated the tree preservation plan will locate the sidewalk in between the
existing line of trees and the curb. Mr. Lillig responded that does not require a variance.
Adam DeHart will work with Scott Brewer to locate the sidewalk. Laurence Lillig stated
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the dumpster is encroaching into the 50-foot landscape area at the north end. He does not
have copies of the recorded plat.
John South said their contractor was concerned about getting the swale in along Randall
Drive. Mr. South does not think they necessarily need a swale. Adam DeHart said the
mass grading plan was in place before they knew what they were doing with block A.
The swales were put in to handle surface run off. Their actual plan is to finish dirt work,
obtain a BZA permit, do nothing along the street, and put in swale and erosion control
work. The swales along Randall Drive, according to Paul I. Cripe, probably will not be
installed. John South wrote a letter. He asked to look at the detail 2/C4. It seems to Mr.
South the surface of the concrete should be level with the swale invert. Adam DeHart
agreed. He recommends a silt fence along the northeast and south sides during
construction. They need to prohibit sediment going to the creek from the building site.
Adam DeHart will make this clear to the contractor.
Gary Hoyt requested a Knox box. The buildings should have a grand master key for each
building. Tom Taggart agreed. It will be installed at the north end of building 2.
Bill Akers did not get a copy of the plans. He will assign one address to building 1 and
another address to building 2. Tenants will be indicated as suite A, B, C, etc. They will
receive a Randall Drive address as they front and access off that road. The address
should be on their monument sign and on each building.
Laurence Lillig has not received floor plans, elevations, and color renderings. Mr.
DeHart gave him a set of plans. The petitioner may want to bring material samples to the
BZA hearing. The sidewalk should be extended at their drive into the site. The south
end of the parking lot is being left uncurbed for future connections.
Block A is allowed one sign with a maximum of 40 square feet. DOCS is drafting an
ordinance that would change that. Hopefully, that amendment will be approved before a
sign is needed for this project. The proposed amendment would place special uses and
use variances in the same category as any other business uses and subject to the same
sign charts. Currently, special use has a more strict standard. They petitioner may
choose to wait with their signage. Mr. Lillig counts 101 parking spaces on site; 81 are
required.
The meeting adjourned at 1:25 p.m.
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