HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 06-20-01
Carmel/Clay Technical Advisory Committee Minutes
June 20, 2001
9:00 a.m.
Members present:
Laurence Lillig - Carmel DOCS John South - Ham. Co. Soil & Water
Chuck Shupperd – Vectren Energy Adrienne Keeling – Carmel Code Enforcer
Steve Cash - Ham. Co. Surveyor John Lester - Carmel Parks
Dick Hill - Carmel Eng. Jim Foster - Carmel Fire Dept.
Steve Broermann - Ham. Co. Highway Bill Akers - Carmel Communications
Rick McClain – Cinergy Sharon Prater -Panhandle E. Pipeline
Jon Dobosiewicz - Carmel DOCS
Hayden Run Subdivision (Primary Plat); 69-01 PP
The applicant seeks approval to plat a seventy-lot residential subdivision on 44.9 acres.
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The site is located on the south side of West 131 Street approximately one half mile
west of Towne Road. The site is zoned S-1/Residential.
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth & Associates, Inc. for Centex Homes.
The case was presented by Chris White and Tom Kutz of Centex Homes. Dennis
Olmstead, Stoeppelwerth, was also in attendance. The 50-acre site is located on the south
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side of 131 Street, west of Towne Road, and east of Shelbourne Road. A total of 70 lots
are proposed under the Open Space Ordinance. The site is bare with two or three
scattered trees. There are not a lot of existing features. There are several five-acre
parcels directly to the east. The parcel to the southeast is part of Village of WestClay.
There are no street stubs from that subdivision. Mr. White described the surrounding
houses. A drawing of the proposed subdivision was displayed. The ponds are focused as
a buffer to the north. No homes back up to 131 Street. There is “open space” land
around the perimeter and around the ponds to the north and east. The legal drain was
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recently cleaned and is an outlet for the site. The sanitary sewer will come from 126
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Street. Water will come from 131 Street. It will be extended from the Village of
WestClay. There is a street stub to the south and another to the west. The open space
equals 20.8 acres or 41 % of the site. It will be landscaped; there will be walking trails.
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This project is scheduled to be heard at the July 17 Plan Commission meeting.
Chuck Shupperd will bring gas from the Village of WestClay. He understands
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construction will begin in February or March of 2002. Gas will be needed by April 1.
Mr. Shupperd will need road easements. Service is at the entrance of Village of
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WestClay about three quarters of a mile away. Indianapolis Water Company will serve
this subdivision. Tom Kutz stated these would be standard gas homes. Centex’s Riviera
product is a semi-custom product with full basements. Prices begin at $250,000. The
homes will have side load garages.
Steve Broermann sent a letter to Dennis Olmstead. He had nothing additional to add.
There will be a stub street to the Fortune property. Custom street and stop signs are
permitted through a waiver process. Homeowners must then maintain the custom signs.
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The Fortune property stub has already been platted. The east-bound lane on 131 Street
must be widened to three feet across the frontage. Twelve inches of stone, five inches of
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binder, and then surface will be used to construct 131 Street. A three-foot stone
shoulder must be provided. Three additional feet of asphalt and three feet of shoulder are
required.
Adrienne Keeling had no comments.
John South faxed a letter to Dennis Olmstead that morning. He recommended a soil map
on the plans. It seems logical to maintain the drainage ways from a water and soil
standpoint. Mr. South recommends maintaining the drainage way through lots 10 and 15.
The existing drain tiles from the west and north must be maintained. Another
consideration is the use of a storm sewer south of lot 19 vs. a swale to discharge into the
pond. It may be logical to swale to the pond.
Bill Akers received the street names. Aden Drive not allowed. He asked to have the
streets added to the secondary plat so could assign addresses.
Jim Foster sent a letter. He requested a map showing fire hydrants. Dennis Olmstead
will wait for the IWC design. Mr. Foster would like a turn around capability for fire
equipment at the stub street location. Chris White said the streets are short and should
not be needed. The island street shows 38 feet. Mr. Foster suggested pulling back the
island at the point of the cul de sac near the entrance.
Jon Dobosiewicz stated at temporary turn around is needed at the southern most stub. He
wants an asphalt turn around that would encroach into the common area. It should be
designed with a 38-foot radius. The asphalt could be removed at a later date. The layout
of the eyebrow and improvements along lots 2, 3, 4, 5 need access to the property to the
west. The ordinance requires two points of ingress and egress for developments with
greater than 14 lots. The minimum lot width is 50 feet. Mr. Dobosiewicz wants the
maintenance of easements described in the covenants. A draft copy of that document is
required. For purposes of presentation to the Plan Commission, the WestClay primary
plat should be identified. Jon Dobosiewicz will suggest the two point of egress be
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provided. The half right of way on 131 is 50 feet. Lot 1 needs to be 50 feet back from
the right of way line. The Ordinance requires a 75-foot offset for Lot 29. Laurence Lillig
stated the minimum width for open space is 75 feet. Lots 70 and 67 are both 15-20 feet
short. Jon Dobosiewicz will write comments for Dennis Olmstead. Signage plans can be
submitted now with the primary plat or later as an amended ADLS. Chris White will
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submit signage now. Maintenance of the signage must be addressed. The walls were
shown on the landscape plan without signage. Elevations are needed.
Mayflower Park, Block 3, Lots 2a-2c (Secondary Plat)
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The site is located on north of 96 Street and West of US 421. The site is zoned I-
1/Industrial.
Filed by Crossroads Engineering for D & R Realty, LLC.
The case was presented by Chris Reid, D & R Realty, and Trent Newport, Crossroad
Engineers. The petitioner proposes to split Block 3 of Mayflower Park into 3 lots to
allow construction of two additional buildings. On the previous configuration of the lot,
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there was a 30-foot private right of way along 99 Street and a 40-foot easement. Now a
proposed 25-foot half right of way is shown on the extension of Mayflower Park Drive.
The petitioner may be asked to make it a private right of way. The Ordinance requires
this to be shown as proposed right of way. There is a 25-foot ingress/egress easement
along the north end of 2B and 2C. This will be for shared access between the two lots.
Chuck Shupperd did not receive plans. There was an old boiler room on the site. He
stated there is a gas line at the location. Now there is an existing commercial building on
the block. A lift station was recently replaced by a gravity line. The two proposed
buildings will tie into the gravity lines for the new sewer.
Steve Broermann asked that the private right of way be indicated on the secondary plat.
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Mayflower Park Drive and West 99 Street should be called out by name in the
disclaimer. Trent Newport agreed to do so.
Adrienne Keeling had no comment.
John South stated he saw no drainage easements. Trent Newport responded there is a 45-
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foot drainage and utility easement along 99 Street. Storage will be in the side ditch.
The remainder of the drainage swales in between the parking lots. These will be
privately maintained. The covenants state there are blanket utility and drainage
easements throughout the development. They can be shown on the plat. There are
swales on the north and west sides of 2A. Mr. Newport said the drainage on 2A and 2C
goes to a swale and travels south along the west line of 2A. John South recommends the
plat show drainage easements. Trent Newport agreed to add the easements. The
minimum width is 15 feet. The depth is one foot. Mr. Newport thinks 15 feet is
sufficient and acceptable.
Bill Akers spoke to Michelle Beers about addresses. All three addresses have been
assigned. Mr. Akers had to “bump up” numbers to fit the range. Chris Reid allocated
4150 on lot 2C. Bill Akers stated that would not be correct. Lot 2C has a Mayflower
Park Drive address.
Jim Foster inquired about the lack of water lines on the plat. He asked if all hydrants are
set. Mr. Newport said this is part of a different set of drawing. No hydrants have been
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added. There is one at the corner of 99 Street and Mayflower Park Drive. The
buildings will be warehouse types. The width of the distance from the corner hydrant to
lot 2C will be 150 feet. Jim Foster stated that was acceptable. He will have additional
comments for the buildings.
Steve Cash stated his comments have been satisfied.
Jay Alley, from Clay Township Regional Waste, had comments which Jon Dobosiewicz
paraphrased. Unless there are modifications to the sewer system he has no issues.
However, the District must be contacted if the project involves any alterations to existing
sanitary sewers. In that case, permits should not be issued without District approval. The
Department of Community Services wants a plan showing the existing building to
determine conformation with applicable setbacks. A key map is needed for block 3 and
the overall of Mayflower Park. Primary and Secondary Plat docket numbers should be
added. Jon Dobosiewicz will prepare written comments by Friday of this week and
assign a docket number. Chris Reid received approvals from Clay Waste. “Proposed”
needs to be changed to “private” in the right of way identification. “West” should be
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added to 99 Street. The Legend should indicate the length of the monuments and
markers. The DOCS filing fee is $560. Revised plans must be submitted.
College Hills (Plat Vacation); 65-01 PV
Petitioner seeks a Plat Vacation to create a single 20.5-acre parcel of real estate. The site
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is located northwest of East 96 Street and North College Avenue. The site is zoned R-
1/Residence.
Filed by Charles D. Frankenberger of Nelson & Frankenberger for Gershman Brown &
Associates.
Attorney Charlie Frankenberger represented Gershman Brown & Associates and 38
individual homeowners in the existing College Hills Subdivision. The plat is located
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northeast of College and 96 Street. The parcel is just south of I-465. An aerial photo
was displayed. The petitioner wishes to vacate the existing plat and covenants. The
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matter will be before Plan Commission on July 17. Blair Carmosino, Duke
Construction, was introduced.
Dick Hill inquired about annexation. The annexation ordinance has been introduced to
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the Council. By September 3, Gershwin Brown hopes to have the hearing before the
Council on the adoption of the annexation ordinance. They will annex, to the City of
Carmel, everything within the area in yellow. They can go no farther than the county
line which is now the center line of College and cannot annex into Marion County. Mr.
Frankenberger understands the law applicable to roads that are between counties gives
jurisdiction over the entire road to the county on the north side. Centerline annexations
are prohibited except where roads are between counties. Annexation, zoning, and plat
vacation are running simultaneously but on different time frames. Mr. Hill asked if the
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annexation should include the north side right-of-way of 96 Street from the site to
College Avenue. Steve Broermann believes this can be worked out. Annexation goes to
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the center line of 96 Street. The City does not have College Avenue. The City of
Carmel is annexing The Five Seasons, The Retreat, and College Hills. Charlie
Frankenberger needs this annexation to proceed with their TIF. Mr. Hill inquired
whether there is adequate contiguity to annex. The petitioners for the annexation are 26
College Hills property owners. It would no longer be an annexation in which 100% of
the owners are applicants. Standards for jurisdiction will be considered pursuant to TIF.
There are 37 consent letters. Jon Dobosiewicz said if the applicant wants to deal with
one jurisdiction, they can petition the County to relinquish.
Steve Broermann agreed. He suggested calling Mike Howard about the possibility of
the strip being annexed. Vacation will occur before annexation. Mr. Frankenberger
decided it would best to have plat vacation contingent not only on zoning and
annexation but also on the acquisition of the land. Therefore, there is no interim period.
Jon Dobosiewicz stated the plat is vacated but the effective date of the plat vacation is
tied to zoning, annexation, and acquisition of ground. Mr. Frankenberger has not yet
discussed this with Mr. Lillig. He has only spoken with John Molitor. The petitioner
will be required to record within “X” number of days from the last closing. The Plan
Commission can impose reasonable conditions. If the parcel is solely within the City of
Carmel, the County Commissions will not be required to act. Blair Carmosino will
speak with Mike Howard. Steve Broermann asked to be kept informed.
Chuck Shupperd will retire the gas mains on the streets. As each house vacates, they will
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remove the meters. Eventually the main on 96 Street will be killed. Service is in the
right of way. Blair Carmosino stated the utilities will be shut down at the time of
environmental assessment. Probably five houses will be shut down at a time. This
should provide an ample window to remove meters. There is public water and sewer.
Laurence Lillig stated County approval is required to vacate streets. Mr. Frankenberger
thinks this applies to streets in platted subdivisions and questioned his interpretation.
Mr. Lillig will speak with John Molitor. Mr. Lillig feels the petitioner can vacate lots
but not the streets. The County Commissioners should not have any objections.
Steve Cash and Adrienne Keeling had no comments.
John South stated the importance of proper well abandonment. Demolition is
considered a land disturbance. Blair Carmosino does not know when it will occur. It is
dependent on the market. If the construction schedule dictates immediate demo with
construction to follow, they might start at the left side, knock out the houses, and start
construction from that side coming the other way. The less aggressive approach would
be to mobilize a demo crew, demolish, grade, vegetate the site, and then mobilize
construction. A coordination meeting is needed. Mr. Carmosino’s main concern is the
proper mitigation of environmental issues. He envisions a conversion to green fields.
John South will need an erosion control plan.
Bill Akers had no comments.
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Jim Foster does not want water shut off until all the other utilities and buildings are
removed. Blair Carmosino said water would be the last utility shut off.
Jon Dobosiewicz read Jay Alley’s comments into the record. “The District is aware of
the petitioner’s plans and will not comment on the plat vacation per se other than to say
that the petitioner has been advised that a number of issues relative to accommodating
the project will need to be addressed at the appropriate time. Among these issues are:
the sewer lines in the area are not presently sized to accommodate the increased flow
from a commercial development and may need to be upsized or otherwise modified;
existing residential sewer connections will need to be appropriately capped off or
removed; any remnants of the original residential septic systems will need to be
addressed during site work; and, any water wells on the site will need to be capped and
properly abandoned.”
Laurence Lillig reviewed Indiana Code Title 36-7-3-11 and 12. Section 11 deals with
property owned by the petitioner. Section 12 is public property that might be adjacent to
a lot. Both apply to a private subdivision. He suggested speaking with John Molitor.
Village of West Clay – Section 9006 (Secondary Plat)
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The site is located southeast of West 131 Street and Towne Road. The site is zoned
PUD/Planned Unit Development.
Filed by Keith Lash of the Schneider Corporation for Brenwick TND Communities, LLC.
Keith Lash presented the case. This section will consist of 29 lots on 18 acres and is the
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eastern most piece of the real estate north of 131 Street that Brenwick controls. The
most significant modification is removal of an extension of the stub street that was
proposed off the roundabout to the east.
Dick Hill had no comments.
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Chuck Shupperd has a gas line on 131Street.
Steve Broermann will write a letter at the end of the week. Mr. Lash said Brenwick
thought work would commence this summer. But because of interest in another section
of WestClay, the time frame may be later in the year.
Steve Cash has not written a letter. The only thing not seen on these plans are procedural
type items that will require final approval from his office. The subdivision to the east is
now named Estates of Clay West. Steve Pittman is developing the parcel. Mr. Cash
asked to have the easement on the east property line increased to 30 feet. A letter will be
forthcoming.
Adrienne Keeling had no comment.
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John South’s comments dealt with the erosion control plan. Greater details are needed on
the crossing even if it is temporary and just for construction. Mr. South would rather see
actual pipes used resulting in only one disturbance of the land. On Dumbarton Street all
storm water drains down to the crossing; it needs diversion. Some temporary diversion
was showed on the north side. Spot grades on the diversions would be helpful. Mr.
South suggested ditch checks for the swales that drain to the Elliot Creek. More detail is
needed on the temporary sediment trap. A levee should be shown instead of an
excavation. Keith Lash agreed to build up to 890.0 and use some protection at the inlet.
Generally, the lake would be excavated first. The petitioner will build the levee before
that work.
Bill Akers has sent an address list.
Jim Foster did not see water lines and hydrants. Mr. Lash said it would be compatible
with the usual plans. Dumbarton Street travels 400 feet north from the turn around. Five
lots are affected. Mr. Foster asked if a temporary turn around could be constructed. Mr.
Lash responded that by the time those homes are built that section will be extended
around the corner. He will check projected time frames. A hydrant location map is
needed. Keith Lash will provided one.
Jon Dobosiewicz asked if the petitioner had easements to allow the construction that goes
beyond property lines. Mr. Lash said it that was not intended to be on the plans. This is
a private issue but Mr. Dobosiewicz wanted to mention it. On pages 1 and 2, the
monuments and markers must be changed to concrete. If there will be signage, there is
no easement to address that issue. Steve Broermann said there is a non-access easement
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on south of 131 Street.
Townhomes at Carmel City Center (Secondary Plat)
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The site is located on the northwest corner of City Center Drive and 3 Avenue
Southwest. The site is zoned C-1/City Center District.
Filed by Keith Lash of the Schneider Corporation for R H of Indiana, LP.
Kenny Windler, Ryland Homes, and Keith Lash explained this request for secondary plat
approval. A total of 41 lots on 2.4 acres are proposed. The Plan Commission has
approved the primary plat. There will be a staff ADLS review in the next few weeks.
Construction plans have been filed. Their biggest issue that carried over from the
primary plat is the wetland. Mr. Dobosiewicz asked how the non platted areas would be
addressed. Mr. Lash stated the wetlands would not be platted. American Consulting did
a wetlands assessment report for the City of Carmel in August, 1999. They delineated
this area as a regular wetlands. Earth Source has served as a wetlands consultant.
Discharging storm water into this wetland is an acceptable use; a permit is not required.
No IDEM or Army Corps of Engineers permits are required as long as the wetlands are
not disturbed with fill or excavations.
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Dick Hill understands that Autumn Drive will be extended. However, construction plans
do not show this. The curb flows from east to west. They will need to tear it out. Kate
Weese wants to see that defined on the plans. Carmel will pay for the extension; it will
not be an expense for Ryland. Mr. Lash does not know if this is in the City’s or CRC’s
budget. Mr. Dobosiewicz discussed the width of this drive. The Plan Commission
expressed interest in additional buffering west of Crescent Drive. A driveway could be
constructed as opposed to a 38-foot street. Mr. Lash believes the CSO plan shows the
road tapering off. Wilson Village does not want it to connect. The Board of Public
Works will ultimately decide how wide the driveway will be. There is almost 80-feet of
concrete or asphalt fronting on a public street. Jon Dobosiewicz would like to investigate
additional plantings on the north side of Autumn Drive west of Crescent. It might be
possible to create a five to six-foot wide planting strip. There will be five-foot sidewalks.
The front door stoops of the buildings encroach into the front building set back lines.
The parking lots are in the easements. Dick Hill stated anything in an easement requires
a consent to encroach. Keith Lash thinks the area is public because the whole site is in an
easement except for the area of the foundations. They will speak further about this. Dick
Hill inquired about the curb inlet in the middle of the pavement area in Crescent. Mr.
Lash said the roll curb would stay in tack and is like a subdivision. The plan views
should be more readable.
Chuck Shupperd had a question about the easement on the south side of the wetlands.
Scott Brewer requested the easement not go into the wetland. There will be a 15-foot
easement on the north side. On the south side, there will be a 9-10 foot easement. Water
and sewer is on the south side from City Center Drive. Mr. Shupperd will extend the
main.
Steve Cash understands this area is annexed into the City of Carmel. It may be in the
Follett and Morrow watershed for the county drain. If it is within, a permit is needed.
Mr. Lash said the project discharges into the storm sewer system that drains City Center
Drive. It travels north.
Adrienne Keeling had no comments.
John South stated the swale along the north side of building #1 could be eliminated if
there were breaks in the curb and the parking lot was slightly lower. Keith Lash needed
to elevate the parking lot to get it to drain. Perhaps it could be a little flatter. Their
contractors want 1 % . Drainage travels toward buildings # 7 and 8. On the east side,
contours deal with that by allowing water to drain into the parking lot. Keith Lash said
the CRC is working on the purchase of the corner. There is drainage access out to street.
There is curbing; the storm sewer runs up Third Avenue.
Bill Akers needs to talk with Keith Lash regarding the assignment of addresses on
Autumn Drive.
Jim Foster stated hydrants were not shown on Autumn Drive. Also, existing hydrants
were not shown. Keith Lash will work on this.
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Jon Dobosiewicz stated the plat needs concrete monuments and markers. He suggests
recording the blocks first, then return to do an “as built”. He wants to avoid an issue with
permits. Keith Lash stated lot numbers and dash marks will be taken off the secondary
plat. It will be recorded as Blocks 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. They will be seen again as a final
secondary plat. Block 1 will be replatted into five lots. Docket numbers must be added
to the plat. The Ordinance requires curbs on all parking lots and islands. Additional
input is requested on extending the right of way and how it could be modified. Mr.
Dobosiewicz is concerned about narrow entrances for buildings 3 and 4. He suggested
handling these like building 5. Doing so will help control speed and traffic. The Board
of Public Works may need to approve the curb relocate. This change would help serve
public safety; he is willing to work with Mr. Lash. Driveways with 80 foot accessing
width have not been approved in the recent past. Keith Lash says if the curb is parallel to
the right of way, they cannot meet the five-foot landscape requirements. Jon
Dobosiewicz would consider that portion a part of the driveway approach. Utilities will
be accessed through center easements. If that is not attainable, the utilities will go on the
north side through the easement or right of way.
Dick Hill asked if the initial recording would satisfy building permits. Mr. Dobosiewicz
indicated it would. It will be recorded as block 6. Then the petitioner will return with a
final secondary plat to show the lines. Laurence Lillig stated there is nothing in the C1
Ordinance regarding the front porches. But, Chapter 26.2.9 reads: “Open, unenclosed
porches (not under roof) or patios may extend ten (10) feet into a front yard”. He
believes the porches can extend into the front yard but not easements, if there is no roof
enclosure.
Meridian Mark-Residence Inn and Springhill Suites
(Primary & Secondary Plat)
The site is located on the on the west side of Pennsylvania Street 1260 feet north of 116th
Street. The site is zoned B-8/business and is located within the US 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Dave Sexton of the Schneider Corporation for Meridian Mile Associates.
Dave Sexton, Schneider Corporation, and Liz Hobbs, REI Investments, Inc. presented the
primary and secondary plats for this development. One and a half years ago they
proposed two hotels at this property. The site is between U.S. 31 and Pennsylvania
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Street. It is approximately 1,000 feet north of 116 Street. Platting is being pursued
because the petitioners want the option to sell the parcels off as individual parcels. There
is no ADLS change from the prior approval. There will still be two hotels.
Dick Hill has already approved the plans. The street name should be corrected to read
Pennsylvania “Street” not Avenue. The petitioner must construct a sidewalk on the west
side of Pennsylvania Street. Liz Hobbs proposes getting a quote on what it would cost
for the contractor that is doing the sidewalks. They want to skip their lot, finish the
portion north of the lot, and come back to do their lot in August. Mike McBride
requested that proposal in writing. Ms. Hobbs will do so. The tree issue has been
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resolved.
Chuck Shupperd said their commercial representative has made contact. Individual
service will be provided for each hotel. One hotel will be started a month ahead of the
other hotel.
Steve Cash commented that an outlet permit was approved earlier. Liz Hobbs has the
permit.
Adrienne Keeling had no comments.
John South asked if there are there cross drainage easements. Dave Sexton responded
there are not. The drainage is self contained. There is a sanitary line in front and an
existing water line. A drainage easement covers the pond and a pipe extends to the south.
There is a storm pipe along the property line with inlets connected on both sides in a
drainage easement.
Bill Akers said both hotels have North Meridian Street addresses. Pennsylvania is a
Street not an Avenue.
Jim Foster has not seen the plans before the meeting. But, he suggests another hydrant on
the north side of the building. Liz Hobbs plans to relocate the hydrant. There is one in
an island and three others. Jim Foster said these cover the front of both hotel buildings.
But there is nothing at the north end of the building. The building will be sprinkled. Liz
Hobbs believes there is a hydrant on the southern boundary of the property just north.
She said a hydrant could be installed. The connections are on the south side of the
Springhill Suites building and are indicated on the plans. There is a water service line
going in midway. The mechanical room is located at that location. Knox boxes will be
installed on each building.
Laurence Lillig commented that on the west side there is a 90-foot build to line. The east
side should also have a 90-foot build to line. These should not be called front yard
setbacks according to the 31 Overlay. Each lot line bisects an entrance. They should be
put into access easements. There is a similar situation on the north property line. Liz
Hobbs said it is not shared. They need an easement across the property. In the Legend,
the monument and markers need length, diameter, and material indicated. It is
Pennsylvania Street not Avenue. The name of the subdivision should be Meridian Mark
III. Covenants and restrictions are needed. Liz Hobbs said the hotels are self sufficient
with just lots 1 and 2. There is a cross parking easement that will be in the covenants.
All properties are subject to cross parking. On Sheet 1 the primary and secondary plat
docket numbers must be added. Also, the DP/ADLS numbers should be referenced. Mr.
Lillig will write a letter regarding variance approvals. Along Pennsylvania Street a
“proposed” 10-foot landscape easement is indicated. The petitioner sold some land to the
City of Carmel on June 6, 2000. Along with that land, they bought a 10-foot landscape
easement. It has been recorded.
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Hazel Dell Pond at Waterstone (Primary Plat) 52-01 PP
Petitioner seeks approval to plat a thirty-six-lot subdivision on 23.95± acres. The site is
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located northwest of East 116 Street and Hazel Dell Parkway. The site is zoned S-2
Residential.
Filed by Douglas B. Floyd for Mark Stout Development, Inc.
Doug Floyd and Mark Harris, American Consulting Engineers, presented this case. The
location of this S-2 subdivision along Hazel Dell Road was described. It has been
divided into two parcels separated by lots. This plan is different from the one presented a
year ago. Previously, it was connected with a thoroughfare to accommodate traffic.
Neighbors took issue with that primary plat. After the subdivision committee reviewed
the plan, the petitioner decided to modify plan. Otherwise, the two plans are very similar.
Dick Hill stated it is not typical to see so many contours on a plat. It would be helpful if
the adjoining Lake Forest lots were identified by number. Mark Harris will verify if there
are existing easements in Lake Forest to accommodate the water and sewer connection.
Mr. Hill asked that the easements behind lots 2 and 7 be identified. He believes it is a
drainage utility easement. The street widths are 26 feet. The back of the curb dimensions
are needed on the plat. A ten-foot easement is needed along the rear of lots 5 and 6. Lots
9 through 22 will be constructed on portions of the lake to be filled in. They will done
the same as last time. Mr. Hill needs to know how the drainage on lot 18 will be handled.
Lots 18 and 19 were configured to give both lots the possibility of a walk out. They are
more marketable that way. Mr. Hill believes the size and location of the gas line
easement on lots 24 and 25 make building pad placement difficult. Mr. Harris responded
that it is just a matter of what a buyer wants to put on those lots. There is an existing
easement for the off-site sanitary sewer connection at the boundary. It will be identified.
Chuck Shupperd will extend the utility up Hazel Dell Parkway and Lake Forest
Subdivision. An encroachment agreement for the gas line is needed.
Steve Cash had no comments. He requires no permits.
Adrienne Keeling had no comment.
John South stated the following should be done in the secondary plat phase. The pond
banks need to be stabilized. A cross section for the shoreline is needed. He needs to
know how they will treat the pond and its future stability. Mark Harris will search for the
source of the computations that cite the 100-year pond level. There has been discussion
about installing an equalizer pipe between the two lakes. More detail is needed on the
lake treatment.
Jon Dobosiewicz stated most of his comments have been addressed. He asked that the
building pad on lot 36 be pulled out of the 20- foot drainage and utility easement on the
north side. He is still concerned about lot 19 but does not think it should need a
subdivision waiver. The petitioner should be prepared to discuss it with the subdivision
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committee. Double frontage lots are being created. There is a 10-foot landscape non-
access and common area along the north side. Covenants and Restrictions along with a
signage plan must be submitted.
Dick Hill understands the previously submitted variance petitions were withdrawn. The
primary plat was not approval. The subdivision is now separated. The only waiver
required is for a cul de sac length greater than 660. The street width has been reduced to
26 feet; the standard is 30 feet. Jon Dobosiewicz suggests a meeting with Dick Hill and
Kate Weese.
Smokey Ridge, Section 3, Lot 63 (Developmental Standards Variance)
The site is located at 13719 Smokey Ridge Overlook. The site is zoned R-1/Residence.
Filed by Tim Colon of Pools of Fun for Thomas A. & Melinda Jane Endicott
This case was withdrawn by the petitioner.
Dan Young Chevrolet (Special Use Amendment)
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The site is located northeast of East 96 Street and Keystone Avenue. The site is zoned
B-3/business and is located partially within the SR 431/Keystone Avenue Overlay Zone.
Filed by Charles D. Frankenberger of Nelson & Frankenberger for D. Young Chevrolet,
LLC.
The case was presented by Attorney Charlie Frankenberger. He introduced Al Young,
Dan Young Chevrolet, and Darrell Phillips, Weihe Engineers, Inc. Chuck Kotterman will
arrive later. The petitioner requests approval to renovate the Dan Young Chevrolet
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dealership at 96 and Keystone Avenue. The renovations consist of changes to the
buildings, signage, lighting, and landscaping. There are now five buildings on site. One
will be demolished, two buildings will remain the same, and two will change. The two
buildings that will remain the same are in the northeast corner of the site. The two that
are changing have in the past been referred to as the Honda buildings. One is being
reduced and will receive a new exterior surface. The main building in the northwest
corner of the property is also changing. It will be enlarged and will also receive a new
exterior surface. Because the real estate is zoned B-3, a Special Use approval is required.
The matter will be heard at the June Board of Zoning Appeals. The case has also been
before the Plan Commission for ALDS approval because part of this real estate is within
the 120-foot Keystone Overlay zone. This project has been before Technical Advisory
Committee once. However, the plans have changed a little. New plans were mailed to
TAC members.
Dick Hill will generate written comments. Engineering’s only involvement concerns
entrance modifications. Kate Weese was not comfortable putting the curb cut issue
because the before Board of Public Works. Mr. Hill spoke with Darrell Phillips about the
traffic light and suggested another meeting. Elevations for the drainage ditch are needed
on the drawings. Dick Hill also inquired about the location of the asphalt path. Charlie
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Frankenberger questioned where a path could fit with the drainage easement. The
thoroughfare plan calls for a 75-foot half right of way. Laurence Lillig said the plans
show 60 feet and a drop down to 50 feet. Charlie Frankenberger understands the existing
right of way varies between 50 and 60 feet; the proposed right of way is 75 feet.
Dedication is required for that. The location of the complex sign was discussed; the plans
do not reflect that. The petitioner must take the 75-foot distance into consideration. The
existing pylon sign is being removed. Charlie Frankenberger thinks they do not need a
consent to encroach for the asphalt but will need one for the complex sign. Chuck
Kotterman arrived. Mr. Frankenberger stated the existing 60 to 50 foot right of way is
shown on Daryl Phillips’ secondary plat. However, the proposed right of way is 75 feet.
The distance will go back onto the parking lot, take in the pylon, and existing location of
the complex sign. The horizontal improvements are okay, but the vertical improvements
need a consent to encroach. He thinks there is a plan to move the complex monument
sign to the north. John Dobosiewicz believes the parking of vehicles should be
addressed. A consent to encroach is needed for the parking. A setback variance would
be required for the complex sign. There is a minimum setback of 10 feet from the right
of way. Charlie Frankenberger believes this could be brought in under the existing
application. Laurence Lillig asked if the three spaces will they be added or if they were
existing. Darrell Phillips said there was existing pavement and it would be part of the
consent to encroach petition. The space is for storage not parking. The petitioner will tie
into the proposed curb. They are not putting in any new asphalt. They are just replacing
the asphalt with concrete. The plan shows a raised chair back curb at that point. There is
no traffic control plan.
Chuck Shupperd stated the different buildings may need relocation or increased meter
size. He will approach each building for its needs. He gave his business card to the
petitioners. The building work will be done in phases. It appears construction on the
main building will not affect the meter set.
Steve Cash had no comments.
Adrienne Keeling related fire hydrants and sprinkler concerns for Jim Foster. He needed
to leave for another meeting. There is an existing hydrant by the old entrance. The Fire
Department wants one near the new entrance and near the buildings. A sprinkler system
cited in the uniform code will be required for the main building. Laurence Lillig stated it
is possible that was not required at the time the building was built in 1970. Building size
and type of use mandate this. The petitioner will telephone call Jim Foster to discuss the
matter.
John South had no comments.
Jon Dobosiewicz spoke of the existing area on the north line where a wall will be added.
The gravel area will be top soiled and reseeded. The petitioner cannot do the wall until
BZA approval is granted. The wall is on the property line, gravel is on the north side.
Laurence Lillig commented that at last night’s Plan Commission meeting it appeared that
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some landscaping is being proposed out of the site. Charlie Frankenberger responded
that approval has been granted by the property owner to the north. Tom Wood owns the
building and the land that accompanies it; Sheridan owns the rest. Mr. Frankenberger has
met with a Tom Wood’s representative. Everything is acceptable to them. Landscaping
is a positive thing on their real estate. Mr. Lillig asked for written documentation. Mr.
Frankenberger agreed. By virtue of using their property, the petitioner will not assert a
claim for adverse possession. That can become a concern after maintaining another’s real
estate after ten years. Laurence Lillig requested a meeting regarding their signage
package.
St. Elizabeth Ann Seton (Special Use Amendment)
The site is located at 10655 Haverstick Road. The site is zoned S-2/Residence.
Filed by Charles D. Frankenberger of Nelson & Frankenberger for The Roman Catholic
Diocese of Lafayette-in-Indiana.
Charlie Frankenberger represented the petitioner. Also in attendance were: Will Wright,
Matt Brainard, and Claire Magna. They request a special use amendment to permit
expansion of the parking lot and the extension of a road to provide another means of
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ingress and egress on 106 Street. This is in response to the needs of a continually
growing congregation. The parking lot and road extension were part of the original
submittal several years ago. Mr. Frankenberger cannot confirm if approval was given in
the past. Laurence Lillig stated approval is good for 12 months and it can be extended an
additional six months.
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Dick Hill said 106 Street in this location is City of Carmel jurisdiction. The storm
drainage is partly within the City but there is County legal drain involved. Curb cut
approval is needed and additional right of way will require formal dedication. It is a 45-
foot half right of way. The legal department is giving their final review on the new
dedication. They just need to confirm that 45 feet were dedicated. The accel/decel lane
requirements are 250 feet for accel and 150 feet for decel. There is a notation about
monitoring the well. Bob Doster believed it is mislabeled. Two wells were property
abandoned because of the high silt content in the water. The reference to Illinois Street
should be removed. Drainage calcs are needed for the basins. The pipe lengths do not
correspond. The pond outlet must be shown. The other structures to the north of the
retention pond will be removed. The roadway needs gravel and paving. The surrounding
area sheet drains. Mr. Hill thinks there is excess length of drive before the inlets. Much
the of grassed area drains to the road. It may be intended to go into the swale. Dick Hill
will write a letter. The inlet on the west side of the road is just stubbing across. Drainage
calcs consider a future school and parking. The pipe is just across the road. Curb inlets
must be sufficient to handle drainage. There is very little impervious area to go into it.
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Dick Hill requested the 106 entrance left turns should align with the drive going into
Cool Creek Woods. The location of the entry way has been a problem. Mr.
Frankenberger stated the original plan took it down the eastern boundary of the real
estate. But that would not align the two entrances. The petitioner had to reconfigure the
plan to permit it to align. Without a change, the offset would be 300 feet. Also more
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power poles would have to be removed. The decel lane would get into the creek. The
matter will be discussed with Kate Weese. If the entrance was moved 12 feet to the west,
it will go into softball field.
Chuck Shupperd has no gas line to the building. They may need relocates for street cuts.
Steve Cash stated Blue Woods Creek is located on the site. An outlet permit is required
for discharge into the drain and a non enforcement is needed for encroachment of the
easement. The flood zone to the south is 20 feet wide. Bob Doster met with the DNR.
They are not close to the floodway; no DNR permit is needed. No fill can be added to the
floodplain area. Drainage calcs will be provided. The petitioner prepared a typical
section to show what is occurring.
Adrienne had no comments.
John South will write a letter. One of his comments will involve the construction of a
pond in sand and gravel type of soil. They may have to line it or live with the water level
where it will be. The petitioner needs to recognize that limitation. The flood way issue
has already been addressed. There will be less than five acres of disturbed area. The
erosion control plan looks okay. Mr. South recommends installation of a dry basis along
the north side of the parking lot. A sediment trap is needed while working on the parking
lot. The slope will have three feet of fall in about 15-20 feet. The outlet for the south
pond was already addressed. Riprap was suggested.
Jon Dobosiewicz believes the left and right turn lanes should be maintained. He said it
might be wise to regrade the hill and install a chain link fence at the top. Future
improvement would be more costly. The petitioners thought a chain link fence was not
attractive. Some other obstacle could be used. Will Wright will remove the existing
fence from the plans. If the drive is moved 12 feet, there are repercussions. However,
there are only 65 homesites across the street.
Laurence Lillig stated the first inlet on the drive is down 400 feet from the grade break.
That is a long way for the water to travel. On the west side of the site there will be a
devotional grotto near the pond. There will be a stone wall half way up a 38-inch statute.
Mr. Lillig requested a copy of those plans to determine if a permit was required. The
area in back was used as a religious Native American site. It will not be used as such in
the future.
The meeting adjourned at 2:42 p.m.
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