Minutes SpecStdy 09-04-01City of Carmel
CARMEL /CLAY PLAN COMMISSION
SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 4, 2001
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Special Study Committee met at 7:00 PM in the Caucus
Rooms of City Hall, One Civic Square, Carmel, Indiana.
Members in attendance were: Leo Dierckman, Chairperson; Nick Kestner, Dave Cremeans, and Pat
Rice.
Department of Community Services Support Staff: Laurence Lillig.
1. Docket No. 188-00 Z; DePauw Rezone *This Item Currently Tabled.
2. Docket No. 47 -01 CA; The Retreat *This Item Currently Tabled.
3. Docket No. 89 -01 ADLS Amend; Hardee's of Carmel Signage Change
Petitioner seeks Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping Signage Amendment
approval for to for two ground signs. The site is zoned B -8. The site is located north at
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23 50 East 116th Street.
Filed by Jeff Wilson of Hardee's Food Systems, Inc.
Present for the petitioner: Jeff Wilson, Facilities Manager for Hardee's Food Systems in Ohio,
Kentucky, Indiana and Michigan; Dave Lowe, contractor.
The Department is requesting the sign design to mimic the current design in Merchants Square.
The design has been emailed to Hardee's Sign Company in North Carolina. These signs are
smaller in size than the existing Hardee's, both in overall height and the height of the sign itself.
The proposed sign will be 25.33 square feet.
Dave Cremeans moved for approval, seconded by Pat Rice. MOTION APPROVED 4 -0.
4. East 96 Street Auto Park, lot 1, 3 Tom Wood Volkswagen (SU- 75 -01)
Petitioner seeks review by the Special Studies Committee regarding their proposed
automobile dealership. The site is located at 4610 East 96 Street.
Filed by Lawrence E. Lawhead of Barnes Thornburg for Tom Wood Nissan.
Present for petitioner: Tom Engle of Barnes Thornburg, 11 South Meridian Street,
Indianapolis; Bob Hurst, Bob Hurst Associates, Architects.
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Committee requested more detail on the shade of yellow and contrast. The petitioner is willing
to commit to the two shades of yellow on the front wall, numbers 337 and 338.
The Department is requesting more detail on the sign by Friday. Regarding the lighting, the lens
is requested to be flat rather than drop -lens to reduce glare also applies to wall packs. Bob
Hurst is willing to commit to the flat lens or change the fixture. The dumpster, trash enclosure, is
cinderblock, painted light gray to match the block on the Volkswagen building.
Material of the walls, the Committee would prefer split face block or pre -cast brick as opposed to
the stucco appearance, EFIS.
Bob Hurst said he would be willing to commit to split -face block, painted light gray, trash area to
match. Petitioner is willing to diffuse the lighting no spotlights, uniform and diffused and
agreeable to Dept. The lighting will cut off at the roofline.
Laurence Lillig requested the dimensions of the ground sign from the petitioner and asked they
be prepared to answer whether it is illuminated or not.
Landscape plan has been revised approved by Scott Brewer? Landscaping is more of a screen
between Williamson Run and 96 Street. Laurence will talk to Scott Brewer about the
substitution of plantings and whether or not they are adequate.
The second sign on Tom Wood would be a problem. Laurence suggested the Tom Wood work
in conjunction with the Volkswagen logo so that it is one sign two signs would require a
variance.
Dave Cremeans moved for approval, with the following conditions: landscaping approved by
Scott Brewer; petitioner will use split face block painted light gray dumpster materials to
match; one sign on front of building; lighting appropriate and consistent; yellow colors numbers
337 and 338; light fixtures will be flat lens, lighting diffused, and will stop at the eave. Motion
seconded by Pat Rice, APPROVED 4 -0.
Note: Items 5 and 6 were heard together.
5. Docket No. 50 -01 CA (Commitment Amendment): 1437 Keystone Way Victory
Beauty Systems
Petitioner seeks Commitment Amendment approval to permit an additional sign. The site
is located at 1437 Keystone Way, northwest of the intersection of North Keystone
Avenue (US 431) and East 116"' Street. The site is zoned B-8/Business.
Filed by Kevin Miller of Action Sign Company for Victory Beauty Systems.
6. Docket No. 51 -01 ADLS: 1437 Keystone Way Victory Beauty Systems
Petitioner seeks ADLS approval for a sign. The site is located at 1437 Keystone Way
East, northwest of the intersection of East 116 Street and North Keystone Avenue (SR
431). The site is zoned B-8/Business.
Filed by Kevin Miller of Action Sign Company for Victory Beauty Systems.
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Present for petitioner: Dave Coots, Coots, Henke Wheeler; Jim Singleton, property owner;
and Phil Warrenburg of Weihe Engineers. Request permission to amend commitment to provide
for a wall sign at the east -end of building in Merchants Square. Landscaping of the wall will
improve appearance of split concrete wall. Signage is critical on the east side of building.
Laurence Lillig said the landscape plan was received today. The Department is not
recommending these petitions for approval. The commitments traded off signage for the wing
wall. The CarX sign still exists on the wall as agreed. If the CarX sign were coming down, it
would be different. This is a large, blank wall and with a sign, it would look like a billboard.
The circumstance that gave rise to the commitment still exists. The Department is suggesting
this be returned to the full Commission with a negative recommendation.
Leo Dierckman suggested windows could be included under the canopy and wrapped, with
landscaping underneath the landscaping would make this building look a lot more attractive.
Leo suggested petitioner return to committee in October.
Petitioner will return to Committee on October 2nd with revised drawings.
7. Docket No. 82 -01 ADLS Hazel Dell Corner, Lot 4
Petitioner seeks Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping Signage for a multi
tenant, ground floor building. The site is located at 13190 Hazel Dell Parkway. The site
is zoned B- 3/Business.
Filed by Paul G. Reis of The Reis Law Firm for Plum Creek Partners, LLC.
8. Docket No. 80 -01 ADLS Hazel Dell Corner Center Identification Ground Signs
Petitioner seeks Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping Signage for center
identification ground signs. The site is located at the northwest corner of Hazel Dell
Parkway and 131st Street. The site is zoned B- 3/Business.
Filed by Paul G. Reis of The Reis Law Firm for Plum Creek Partners, LLC.
Present for petitioner: Paul Reis of The Reis Law Firm, 12358 Hancock Street, Carmel, Brian
Chandler of Olympia Partners, co- developers; April Hensley of Leach, Hensley architects, and
Cort Crosby of Schneider Engineering.
An Osco Drug facility, a medical office building, and a day care center have already been
approved for this center, and the architectural style of the proposed building will be consistent.
The site is approximately 4.2 acres and is in B -3 business zoning. The east elevation of the
building was revised to provide more of a neighborhood feel by adding more brick and lessening
the glass. The parking spaces number 52 and are adequate under the ordinance. The location of
the pathway has been moved slightly to the west and the pedestrian crossing, going to and from
the center, will be striped.
The petitioner will be using up- lighting and the tenant component of the sign has been
eliminated. The sign will basically state "Hazel Dell Corner." Shields will be added to the three
fixtures in the back to further shield any light spillage into the neighborhoods. As outlined in a
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letter, the developer will commit to using individual, back -lit letters with a halo effect, very
similar to that approved for Osco. The size will be pursuant to multi tenant ground signs. The
signs will probably be less than 50 square feet.
Mr. Reis referred to a letter from Pat Taylor, resident of Emerald Crest Subdivision. Mr. Taylor
had appeared at the public hearing and expressed some concerns. Mr. Reis stated that all of Mr.
Taylor's issues have been adequately resolved.
Laurence Lillig commented that the Department is satisfied with changes made to the plan. The
sign band is approximately 4'8" wide, and the letters will be 24 to 30- inches high.
Pat Rice asked about the colors and wanted them to be consistent; the committee should be able
to choose the palette for the project.
Paul Reis' position is that color is very important to the retail tenant, it is commercial speech, and
is protected. During the day, you would recognize red, but at night, it would disappear. The
signage on this building will not be readily seen from Hazel Dell parkway heading south.
Laurence explained that the color of the text of the sign is open to regulation logos, trademarks,
etc. are protected, but the font is the City's to control. If the committee wanted to adopt a
common color, that would come under ADLS authority.
After some discussion regarding the color, Brian Chandler for Olympia agreed to white, reverse
channel letters.
In regard to commitments regarding permitted uses and a possible restaurant, Mr. Reis stated that
a restaurant is not a permitted use at this site; a deli is a permitted use, but not a restaurant.
Dave Cremeans moved for approval conditioned upon signage being restricted to 30 inch,
reverse channel, white letters, seconded by Pat Rice. APPROVED 4 -0.
9. Docket No. 103-01 ADLS Amend; Methodist Medical Plaza Beltway Surgery
Center Sign
Petitioner seeks Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping Signage Amendment
approval for one building sign. The site is zoned B -6 and is within the US 31 Overlay.
The site is located in the 100 Block of Pennsylvania Parkway.
Filed by David M. Link of Bremner and Wiley, Inc
Representing the petitioner: David Link of Bremner and Wiley. Approval is being requested to
mount additional signage to the existing Methodist Medical Plaza, Beltway Surgery Center.
The proposed sign would be the same size, style and color as the existing signage.
Department: Laurence Lillig said the proposed sign will require a Developmental Standards
Variance because it exceeds the number of allowable signs.
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Pat Rice moved for the approval of 1 -3 -01 ADLS Amend, seconded by Dave Cremeans.
APPROVED 4 -0.
10. Docket No. 84 -01 ADLS Merchants' Pointe, Lot 4, Macaroni Grill
Petitioner seeks Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping Signage for a Restaurant.
The site is located at 2375 East 116 Street. The site is zoned B- 8/Business and is
located partially within the SR 431 /Keystone Avenue Overlay Zone.
Filed by James J. Nelson of Nelson Frankenberger for Brinker Indiana, Inc.
Present for the petitioner: Jim Nelson, attorney, representing Brinker International and its
division, Romano's Macaroni Grill; Robert Montgomery of Brinker International; Buddy
Hennessee of The Linder Co.; Barbara Eden of Carson Designs; and Phil Warrenburg of Weihe
Engineers.
Macaroni Grill is an Italian eatery; the architectural design is stone, accented with brick, wood
trellis, and arched entryway. The east elevation faces Keystone, south faces Borders Bookstore,
west faces the Longhorn Steakhouse. The landscaping and lighting will be consistent with
Merchants Pointe.
Department comments: Laurence Lillig said the Department prefers a consistent, neutral
background.
Outstanding issue -the gate into the trash refuse area. The gate is corrugated metal painted to
match the principal color of the building, light brown. There are three signs: one on the north
elevation, one on the west elevation, and a ground sign in keeping with the prototype approved
for Merchants Pointe.
Jim Nelson reviewed other signage in Merchants Pointe. Mr. Nelson displayed a drawing of the
signs with both a neutral background with green letters, and a dark green background with white
letters.
After further discussion on the colors and background, and contrast, the committee preferred the
signage with the green background and white lettering.
Dave Cremeans moved for the approval of 84 -01 ADLS Merchants' Pointe, Lot 4, Macaroni
Grill, with signage of green background and white lettering, seconded by Nick Kestner.
APPROVED 4 -0.
11. Docket No. 207 -00 ADLS Amend; West Carmel Center, Ritter's Frozen Custard
Informational item.
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The petitioner was not in attendance, and this item was for information and discussion.
Laurence Lillig commented that the original ADLS on Michigan Road included crown molding
and what is being installed appears to be less substantial than originally approved.
The consensus of the Committee was that the petitioner should correct the current molding and
develop as originally planned. The Department will communicate that information to the
petitioner.
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at
9:00 PM.
R ona Hancock, Secretary
Leo Dierckman, Chairperson
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