Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutCorrespondence re: cul-de-sac 06/08/01 15:28 FAX • r HAMILTON CO HWY. 008 • • • Fire Department Headquarters - . 2 CIVIC SQUARE - CARMEL,INDIANA 46032 317/571-2600 November 3,2000 • Kerry Buckley,El American Consulting Engineers, Inc. • 4165 Millersville Rd. Indianapolis, IN 46205-2998 Dear Ms.Buckley, • This letter is in response to the meeting we had on Friday November 3id regarding the placement of the cul- de-sac at the end on Carwinion Way in the Ashbrook Subdivision. Although this will greatly increase the overall length of the cul-de-sac well beyond allowable standards,it has been agreed upon that it would be acceptable with the following provisions. The installation of a surface or sub-surface weight bearing system - capable of supporting fire fighting apparatus for emergency access connecting to Commerce Drive. We also would require that any means of barricading this emergency access from Commerce Drive to Carwinion Way • be removable In nature,allowing the fire department access and that no permanent fence,wall or other barricade be erected that would not allow for.emergency access. It is also understood that this access portion between Commerce Drive and Carwinion Way must be maintained as a passable emergency - entrance point at all times. With the above noted requirements met,it is the opinion of our office that the creation of a cul-de-sac at the end of Carwinion Way would meet with our approval Should you have any further questions or concern,please contact our office. • • Respectfully, / u; 59f ary oyt Fire Marshal - -• • Carmel Fire Prevention Bureau Cc:- file(2) • Fire Prevention Saves Lives and Property x r 06/08/01 15:29 FAX HAMILTON CO HWY. 0009 • .4 re. Cannel Clay Schools— Continuing Excellence in Education L14 • • November 14, 2000 Ms. Kerry E. Buckley, El American Consulting Engineers, inc. 4165 Millersville Road - Indianapolis, IN 46205-2998 RE: Ashbrook Subdivision Dear Ms. Buckley, Thank you for the opportunity to review the proposed development referenced above. Per our discussion regarding the proposed cul-de-sac at the west end of Carwinion Way, our department recommends a minimum radius of 50"-0". This allows buses to make a turn around without doing any back up procedures and also not hit any curbside - improvements with the rear sweep of the bus. This number would need to be increased if parking is allowed at the curb. Sincerely, G.�v.�CJi.M,. G• , . Ron Farrand, Director • Facilities and Transportation Facilities&Transportation Department —5185 East 131c Street,Canne4 1N 46033 317/844-8207-.Fax 317/571-9659 06108/01 15:05 FAX HAMILTON CO HWY. t O( a I HAMILTON COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS OCTOBER 23,2000 the developer. On Friday,October 20,2000 we sent a person to Cincinnati to collect on that Letter of Credit because all of the paperwork had to be filed at the banks'counter in Cincinnati. We did collect$15,000 out of the$69,700 Letter of Credit. Our intent • is to see lithe developer comes back to finish the project. If he does not we will finish the project and we expect the cost to be approximately$10,000. We will not have a full maintenance bond if the developer does not come back and we will probably hold the remainder of the money through the three year bonding period. Mr.Locke asked if there is any action from the Board of Commissioners to follow up? Mr.Howard stated the State Board of Accounts will want to sec this$15,000 deposited,but it will need - to be in a fund where the Highway Department can make claims out of it without appropriation. Mr.Ogle stated a fund will need to be created. Mr.Locke asked at what point should we accept the streets and should we ask the Planning Department to not allow any additional construction until the developer completes the subdivision? Mr.Howard stated those lots could be owned by innocent persons without notice,we have the ability to complete the work through the bond,we do not have the right to do anything else. Mr. Locke stated this is a violation of a county ordinance,if he does not complete the project or give us a maintenance bond. Would it be the Commissioners direction to file with the County Prosecutor the violation of the ordinance? Mr.Howard stated as to the completion bond,it is a civil action. If a maintenance bond is not posted,there may be a case. Mr.Locke stated we arc going to try to recover our costs for-the processing from the money we kept out. Once we finish paving the streets,we would put those streets on" county inventory,which would be next spring. Dillinger motioned to ratify the draw on the Letter of Credit. Clark seconded, Motion carries on. :moons Mr o acd 11 ire a n,ordinance for the fund `` -p-gfi..5''. � i��'°W,� ^mil.5 -- t .•.� �Otj Ag a s l,.�rl ci Rj t ,b F: -:?.J E 4 cr a Y•� 7 p°y7 r evin Mc assort.stated he represents *IQ,ale Partiicrs'e est' armel the developers of the shopping center at 10601 Street and Michigan Road. Mr.McKesson stated when planning this development they have met many times with the neighborhood _and have gained their support for the development. The intention of our efforts is to turn Carwinion Way into a cul-de-sac. Part of our requirements in the development is to extend the county road called Commerce Drive south through cur entire development. We will • complete Commerce Drive to the south line of Target's property line. To the south of Target we have a proposal from Home Depot • and if that is successful we will continue Commerce Drive to that point. Commerce Drive is scheduled to be a secondary arterial drive,'but that would require it to be completed from our property south to 96th Street. Thal is in the plans,there is no time table as to when it will happen. Carwinion Way currently"T's"into Commerce Drive. As the project develops we will generate more traffic an additional traffic signal will be placed at 102nd Street,which will be called Retail Way. We are requesting that Carwinion Way be a cul-de-sac. We will design the cul-de-sac so it will be accessible to emergency vehicles and pedestrian traffic,but not to traffic from the commercial development. Any traffic generated by the commercial development would be inappropriate to go through this neighborhood. Carwinion Way can be taken from Commerce Drive and get to Towne Road. Dr.Dugan,resident of the area,stated the plat j ust approved was for the Target development. This represents 10 months of involvement of our neighborhood association and Glendale Partners in order to bring this to successful site preparation and construction yet this fall. It is also important to taxpayers in Hamilton County,because this development resides in the overlay district on Michigan Road. Taxes generated in that district go into a TIP fund which go back to directly support road improvements in West Clay. These funds will go specifically to 96th Street road improvements,which is relevant because the Thoroughfare Plan calls for Commerce Drive to connect to 96th Street and Shelbourne Road. This would solve the problem if there is a need to travel from Commerce Drive to Shelburne Road by the appropriate commercial route south of our development,not on.a residential street. Dr. Dugan stated to the south of our neighborhood is a development called Spring Arbor,which was not originally planned when our neighborhood was platted. There is secondary egress available to Shelborne Road through Spring Arbor. The only reason this back entrance existed was to provide access when there was a plan for this to be one subdivision. That changed when Estridge purchased the land from Brenwick. The back entrance is no longer desired or required. For safety concerns on Carwinion Way,for the children who play in the neighborhood,for the excessive speeds currently being seen and echoed in the Westin development to the north,we are asking to consider this request. Mr.McKesson stated they have worked extensively with the neighborhood groups and they arc committed to pay for the cul- de-sac on Carwinion and to make sure it is designed for acccssability to emergency vehicles. Mr.Locke slated the Highway Department has expressed it's opposition to this request from the first time they attended TAC. The Highway Department feels it is importantto keep this opening to the subdivision. We would have not allowed the subdivision to go in if Carwinion Way was to be a cul-de-sac. It is not only because it is a second entrance,but it is so far back to these houses. We have not seen a position from the school`corporation or the fire department. It is important to keep the inner connectivity between the subdivisions and our collector,primary and secondary roads. Speed through the subdivisions is a concern,but we have found that it is not from people traveling through the subdivisions as much as it is residents of the subdivision who have to travel so far to get out of the subdivision: Dr.Dugan stated we can not draw comparisons to people that are connecting between subdivisions in the middle of residential communities surrounding golf courses. Everyone would agree that traffic generated in those areas would be substantially different from the type of commercial we are talking about at the back side of Ashbrook. The people that want this most are the people who live on the western portion of Carwinion Way,who arc the most affected. They will have the most travel issues within the neighborhood. There are 120 lots in the neighborhood and there is one individual in the neighborhood that feels this should not• happen. The neighbors are concerned about safety and the traffic generated by Target and Home Depot. Mr.Locke stated we often stub streets out,which are very hard to get those connected alter the fact. This is one of those cases that we had it stubbed out and connected through prior to people purchasing homes in the subdivision.It has been zoned commercial for a long time and they were very aware of what it was connected to. Everyone had substantial notice and if they thought it would be a problem they would have taken it into consideration when they purchased their properties. Holt stated on prior instances when the Board of Commissioners have considered cul-de-sacs,we have always had the concurrence of the school district and lire department. Have those concurrences been requested? Dr.Dugan stated he was not aware that there was a school issue. He does not see fire as a substantive issue because the new fire station will be on the northwest corner of 106th Street and Shelbome. He could not imagine a fire truck going over to Commerce and coming-in The back side of the neighborhood rather than coming straight down Shelborne. Holt stated the issue is whether the fire truck can get in and out of the cul- de-sac. If it can't-get in and out,then are the hoses long enough to park at the end of the street? Dr.Dugan stated there is not enough real estate within Ashbrooke to do the cul-de-sac. The actual cul-de-sac will be beyond the Ashbrooke limit in the commercial area. Mr.McKesson stated they have agreed to work with the fire department and all other safety agencies to design the cul-de--sac so it can be accessed by emergency vehicles. It will be paved and will have a crash gate. Holt asked if the fire department has agreed to work ,06/08/01 15:07 FAX Iit1M1L'i'Ol�[ CO IIWl'. 6121 0 HAMILTON COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS. OCTOBER 23,2000 with you? Mr.McKesson stated the fire department was at the TAC meeting when it was discussed,we don't have their agreement, but we are planning on working with them and this would be contingent upon their approval. Holt asked what about the schools? Mr. McKesson stated we have not met with Carmel/Clay Schools. If you would like us to do that we will, Dr.Dugan stated the school bus does not currently use the street now. Dillinger asked how do you respond to Mr.Locke's point that the subdivision was approved this way and you knew it was there when you bought it? Dr.Dugan stated he can only speak to his own lot purchases,when be bought his two lots he looked carefully into the zoning. There is a difference in zoning east and west of Commerce and there has been confusion to homeowners about that. There was not areality of this size of development to people until we saw Marsh being built on the northeast corner and Village Pantry and the first part of West Cannel Center being developed. The traffic generated by Blockbuster,Village Pantry and Marsh is what got the neighbor's attention. We immediately entered into a productive dialogue with Mr.McKesson. We realize that there was a lot of real estate and it was going to be developed. It is being developed in a first rate way,but it does not alleviate the safety concerns. We have been pro-active about this, We have been working with the developers to solve a neighborhood problem. Mr.McKesson stated there will be atraffic light at SR 421. Mr,McKesson stated their concern is that they do not want to create traffic through the neighborhood. People going east may use the neighborhood as a shortcut,which we feel is inappropriate. Holt stated assuming you complete the road to the south you would get to 96th Street with a light? Mr. McKesson stated that is beyond their control. They are not developing to that point,other developers will at some point. When it gets to that point,it is questionable when that can happen. It will require the county to condemn existing houses. Mr.Locke recommended that it would be best at this time to leave it connected and sec what happens once it opens up with a.commitment from the developer to install the cul-de-sac if it does not work out. Right now we want to do a replat to make sure we have the right-of-way to install the • cul-de-sac because it will not fit in the existing right=of-way. No one knows for sure if it will increase traffic or be a safety issue. lie would not want to limit mobility,especially for the neighbors on the far inside of the cul-de-sac.Clark stated she fails to see the maybe's. It is a definite,having just dealt with Brighton and Dorset. That is another example where you are tying commercial to residential and it is totally different scenario than tying residential to residential. Clark stated for her to actively support an opportunity for commercial traffic to move through a residential area is unthinkable, Mr.Locke stated it is different,Brighton and Dorset had the main arterial road coming directly into the entrance of the subdivision,lined up with it. There was no jog. Clark stated to her it is an analogist situation,Meridian Corridors Boulevard was not finished,it was to be finished when the commercial development came in.which is a similar situation to what we have done here. Once the road is in then the commercial traffic has someplace to go. Mr.Steve Van Soulen,stated he currently lives in the Westins,which is a minor image of this situation to the north. The Westin's has a similar road to Ashbrooke that runs from 106th Street to Shelborne. There have been traffic studies done of over 1,000 cars,using that southern exit of the Westins. The Cannel Police Department has clocked speeds at 45 mph and 55 mph going through there. It is not an issue of maybe,it is an issue of when and how many. The Westin'Homeowners Association has worked with the county highway department to get crosswalks and park signs installed to slow people down. Mr.Locke stated even in subdivisions that don't have this kind of access,we still clock speeds at 45 mph to 50 mph. To think putting in a cul-de-sac is going to reduce speeds does not happen. Holt asked what dries non action today do? Mr.McKesson stated we will continue to develop the Target store,which will open next summer. We will continue to try and get approval for Home Depot. There is an additional six acres between Target and our other development,where the actual cul-de-sac will be. We don't want to come back to the commissioners and say it is necessary because someone has been injured from someone cutting through a neighborhood. We are committed on following up on this issue. Holt stated it is inconceivable that a school bus would pull all the way in and back all the way out or a fire truck would want to pull all the way in and back all the way out. It is critical that you get a sign-off from the school district and the fire department. Mr.McKesson stated the design of the cul-de-sac will allow for school buses to turn and emergency vehicles to access through the crash gate and we would maintain those facilities. Mr.Van Soulen stated one reason the real estate is tight is that there are four or five different pipeline easements that are cutting through here. The cul-de-sac will be designed as big as he can within the limits of the pipeline agreements. Mr.Locke asked if the commissioners are considering this he would request they provide the county with a drawing of what they are planning and the easements and what can be constructed. We don't want to approve something that can't be built. Mr.Locke stated you-may want to ask for the people living in the back section to sign off: Mr. McKasson stated they would meet with the school district and safety agencies as well as a sign off from the neighbors. Mr. VanSoulen stated we have supported all this development with this condition,the longer this decision gets put off,it will be too late once Home Depot is built. This is his one chance to get this done.Holt stated it would be helpful for the school system and the fire .department if you can show them the cu]-de-sac design. Mr,Locke stated typically there are plans that show exactly what will go in and they normally send the highway department a letter stating that don't objector they agree with the plan as drawn so everyone is aware of what it is. If all of those things can be taken care of,it would be helpful. It would also be helpful that each resident sign something stating that they are aware that this is being built and the school corporation will not send a bus back there and they understand the fire issues, Mr.Locke asked Mr.McKesson to get the design to the highway department first so we can review it. Clark motioned to table so we can get the signatures from the residents as well as approval from the school board and fire department. Dillinger seconded. Motion carried unanimously. Holt called a break at 2:00 p.m. Holt called the meeting back to order at 2:30 p.m. Agreements:(Tape 2,42[) West Carmel Center,Block-D Inspection Agreements: Mr.Locke requested approval of.Inspection and Testing Agreements,HCHD ilA00-0014,for West Cannel Center Block D between the Glendale Partners and Hamilton County and between Hamilton County and United Consulting Engineers in the amount of $5,700.00. Dillinger motioned to approve. Clark seconded. Motion carried unanimously, ' Canal Place Landscape Sprinkler System Agreement: Mr.Locke requested approval of an agreement between Hamilton County and Canal Place Property Owners Association, HCHD tiM-00-0037,for a landscape sprinkler system in the right-of-way. Dillinger motioned to approve. Clark seconded. Motion carried unanimously. Bridge 4129 Agreement: Mr.Locke requested approval of an agreement between Hamilton County and the State of Indiana,HCHD#M-00-0038,for Bridge#129 on Prairie Baptist Road over William Lock Ditch. This is a federal aid project. Total estimated project costs are • $971,000. Hamilton County's share is$149,000. This covers construction and construction inspection. Dillinger motioned to approve. Clark seconded. Motion carried unanimously. • 3 . P • 06/08/01 15:09_ FAX HAMILTON CO HWY. 421 HAMILTON COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS NOVEMBER 14,2000 River- The agreement is with Floyd E.Burroughs&Associates,Inc,in an amount not to exceed$77,800. Dillinger motioned to approve. Holt seconded. Dillinger and Holt approve. Clark opposed. Motion carried, Lamong Road Extension Engineering Agreement: Mr.Locke requested approval of Engineering Agreement HCHD#E-00-0019 for the Lamong Road Extension-SR 38 to 246th Street with USI Consultants,Inc. The not to exceed amount is S155,080. This does not includeright-af--way services or construction inspection. The scope is set up to do two lanes with curb,guttering and closed drainage with the ability to add two lanes on the inside. Clark asked Wit would be less expensive to put on open drain with two lanes in the center as we normally do? Mr.Locke stated we went through that scenario,it is a little less expensive on the construction costs but as we tried,to work with the people,this Is the will of the people. It is probably 20%more to put in curb and gutter and drainage. Mr.Locke stated this contract will do the engineering, design,survey,right-of-way engineering and geotechnical work. It is not for buying right-of-way or construction inspection. Dillinger motioned to approve. Clark seconded. Clark asked if once the project is engineered how long can it sit on the shelf? Mr. Locke slated he can not say,there are constantly changing environmental standards,access changes,etc. 80%-90%of the engineering would be good for 5-10 years, Motion carried unanimously. Towne bond and 106th Street Engineering Agreement: Mr.Locke requested approval ofthc engineering agreement for Towne-Road and 106th Street Intersection reconstruction, HCHD#E-00-00I6,with Beam,Longest and Neff,LLC. The not to exceed amount is 5155,137,19. Dillinger motioned to approve. Clark seconded. Motion carried unanimously. Request to Set Publie Hearing for Vacation ofHoover Road:(Tape 1,#521) Mr.Jose Kreutz,Brenwick Development, 12821 E.New Market Street,Cannel. Mr.Kreutz stated on April 12,1999 the Hamilton County Board of Commissioners approved Ordinance 322-99-B,where a portion of Hoover Road was vacated,specifically from 131st Street to 13 mile south of 131st.Street. Until Meeting House Road was built,,we could not vacate Hoover Road.Mr.Kreutz requested to set a public hearing to vacate an additional portion of Hoover Road that has no purpose. Mr.Kreutz requested the public hearing be sch;.!uled on December 11 2000. Dillinger motioned to approve. Clark seconded. Motion carried unanimously. Mr.Kevin McKasson,9$64 Summerlakes Drive,representing Glendale Partners the developer of West Cannel Center located at the southeast corner of Michigan Road and I06th Street. Mr.McKassori stated we presented the plans last month to make Carwinion Way into a cul-de-sac. We have met with the Cannel Fire Department and the Cannel-Clay School System. Mr.Locke requested this discussion be delayed until.the Highway Department has time to review the information. At the last meeting it was requested they submit the requested information to the Highway Department for review before they were placed on the agenda.. Mr. McKesson stated they have the letters from the fire department,the school system and residents signatures. Mr.Steve VanSoeIen stated they did poll the area of the neighborhood beyond a certain point in the community where people would be using the back access. Out of 111 residents,87 responded yes,this is what they want, 16 had no response, l resident responded no they did not want this.and I no that agreed with the idea,they just wondered if there were other means to let people in and out. In the back there are 30 residences that are being developed or have been developed and 26 of those said they want a cul-de-sac. Mr.Locke stated the Highway Department has not had a chance to review the cul-de-sac plan. Mr.McKesson stated the plan was presented for the original hearing...Ms.Kerry Buckley stated they just received the school system's design requirements for the cul-de-sac. They are requesting a 50'radius on the cul-de-sac. Initially we did not have a 50'radius,it was 38,we have changed it to a 50'radius. Dillinger,Holt and Clark agreed to hear the information and if we feel it needs to be postponed until the next meeting then we can do that. Holt asked what would keep somebody from driving across the brick and make their exit? Mr.McKesson stated none of the agencies asked for a crash gate,which we have not shown on the.plan. We have shown the 50'radius and the paved area between Carwinion and Commerce Drive. Mr.McKesson has asked that a sidewalk be built through it so a bicycle can pass,but a safety vehicle would have to crash through it Holt asked what does the crash gate do to the front of a vehicle when it crashes through it? Mr.McKesson stated if it is a car it may damage it,there are designs for the barrier to be broken through. It will be designed so any emergency vehicle can crash through it and we will be responsible for replacing it and repairing it if that happens. This property is governed by an operating easement agreement that is binding on all property owners within the shopping center and it would be part of the covenants for operating the shopping center. Dillinger asked if this is part of Cannel's proposed annexation? Mr.McKasson stated yes it is. Holt asked if the removable barricade causes the highway department any problem? Mr.Locke stated based on experience at other locations,it will probably not be there very long and he does not see a company replacing it every Mdnday morning. He believes it will be used as a crossover for the residents who don't want to drive around. Dillinger asked if this modification has been a.'roved b the Caimel Plan Commission? Mr.McKesson stated ri•ht now the Carmel Plan ommissron as approv-• • I P. u'mission 4 t retail center at mer,art. to construction of 225,000 sq.it.Target building. We wore as e. to .et.county a.•nova its and go` back throu:h the armel process,why wou . . un.er • f P. ru es an It wo • become part of at commitment,Just as our other ..commitments a:a ma e w en iese •ro'ects are zoned. I a Carne Plan Commission has seen t a cu •e sac p an an• ey as`�ce�us to come.before t e county commcssio e or our approval. i r nger sea wr a peoposee annexation to cannel,it may rat be in t w o mont , • . e' •• son stated they will go throng• an entire rov: —�—'° aPP process,w e err is annex=• or not annex ar sate the Plan Comex anion approved this develo'merit based on what ou have told the neighbors,the coo.-.ration is absolutely beau?u . and she a laud`s Mr.McKesson for working with t e neighbors. Mr.McKesson stated Commerce Drive is a county road an. we will build it to county specs ca ons, a deity takes over we will build it to city specifications if they are different. Dillinger asked if the homeowner's group is supporting the annexation? Mr.VanSoelen stated he does not know that. Mr.Locke stated the highway department still feels this should not happen. /fit is approved there are several drainage issues that have to be resolved,along with possible road reconstruction along Commerce Drive. If the commissioners are assured the school corporation and the fire department approves and there will be no backlash from the residents,then it would have to be up to the discretion of the conunissloners• Dillinger stated he personalty does not think this should be done,but;iven the efforts to the homeowners and it will probabl not I county jurisdiction any longer the Cannel Peal .u in scion is in favor of it and a fire de,artment oes no a ject,Di lin:at motion to a•'rove is re.nest. Clark seconded. Clark stated she does not believes a car• t e Carmel Plan •mmnssion a.... ., e c -.a sad the . ,, e ' an Commission approved the pLoject based on the fact that e develo er had worked®ith the neighbors, he would encourage the county commissioners to follow suit Motion carried unanimously. Mr.Locke asked Mr.McKasson to get their construction plans,prior to doing any work,to the-highway department and resolve the drainage issues. Mr.McKasson stated this must go through the Carmel zoning and ADLS which will require specific construction plans for this before they approve it,we will have to get a variance and we will have all the plans done and make sure we t • 06/08!01 15:07 FAX HAMILTON CO HWY. raj C HAMILTON COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS- OCTOBER23,2000 • with you? Mr..McKesson stated the fire department was at the TAC meeting when it was discussed,we don't have their agreement, but we are planning on working with them and this would be contingent upon their approval. Holt asked what about the schools? Mr. McKesson stated we have not met with Carmel/Clay Schools. If you would Like us to do that we will. Dr.Dugan stated the school bus does not currently use the street now. Dillinger asked how do you respond to Mr.Locke's point that the subdivision was approved this way and you knew it was there when you bought it? Dr.Dugan stated he can only speak to his own lot purchases,when he bought his two lots he looked carefully into the zoning. There is a difference in zoning east and west of Commerce and there has been confusion to homeowners about that. There was not a reality of this size of development to people until we saw Marsh being built on the.northeast corner and Village Pantry and the fast part of West Cannes Center being developed. The traffic generated by Blockbuster,Village Pantry and Marsh is what got the neighbor's attention. We immediately entered into a productive dialogue with Mr.McKesson. We realize that there was a lot of real estate and it was going to be developed. It is being developed in a first rate way,but it does not alleviate the safety concerns. We have been pm-active about this. We have been working with the developers to solve a neighborhood problem. Mr.McKesson stated there will be a traffic light at SR 421. Mr.McKesson stated their concern is that they do not want to create traffic through the neighborhood. People going east may use the neighborhood as a shortcut,which we feel is inappropriate. Holt stated assuming you complete the road to the south you would get to 96th Street with a light? Mr. McKesson stated that is beyond their control. They arc not developing to that point,other developers will at some point. When it gets to that point,it is questionable when that can happen. It will require the county to condemn existing houses. Mr.Locke recommended that it would be best at this time to leave it connected and see what happens once it opens up with a-commitment from the developer to install the cul-de-sac if it does not work out. Right now we want to do a replat to make sure we have the right-of-way to install the cul-de-sac because it will not fit in the existing right:of-way. No one knows for sure if it will increase traffic or be a safety issue. He would not want to limit mobility,especially for the neighbors on the far inside of the cul-de-sac.Clark stated she fails to see the maybe's. It is a definite,having just dealt with Brighton and Dorset, That is another example where you are tying commercial to residential and it is totally different scenario than tying residential to residential. Clark stated for her to actively support an opportunity for commercial traffic to move through a residential area is unthinkable. Mr.Locke stated it is different,Brighton and Dorset had the main arterial road coming directly into the entrance of the subdivision,lined up with It. There was no jog. CIark stated to her it is an analogist situation,Meridian Corridors Boulevard was not finished,it was to be finished when the commercial development came in,which is a similar situation to what we have done here. Once the road is in then the commercial traffic has someplace to go. Mr.Steve Van Soulen;stated he currently Lives in the Westin,which is a mirror image of this situation to the north. The Westin's has a similar road to Ashbrooke that runs from 1 06th Street to Shelborne. There have been traffic studies done of over 1,000 cars,using that southern exit of the Westin. The Cannel Police Department has clocked speeds at 45 mph and 55 mph going through there. It is not an issue of maybe,it is an issue of when and how many. The Westins'Homeowners Association has worked with the county highway department to get crosswalks and park signs installed to slow people down. Mr.Locke stated even in subdivisions that don't have this kind of access,we still clock speeds at 45 mph to 50 mph. To think putting in a cul-de-sac is going to reduce speeds does not happen. Holt asked what does non action today do? Mr.McKesson stated we will continue to develop the Target store,which will open next summer. We will continue to try and get approval for Home Depot. There is an additional six acres between Target and our other development,where the actual cul-de-sac will he. We don't want to come back to the commissioners and say it is necessary because someone has been injured from someone cutting through a neighborhood, We are committed on following up on this issue. Holt stated it is inconceivable that a school bus would pull all the way in and back all the way out or a fire truck would want to pull all the way in and back all the way out. It is critical that you get a sign-off from the school district and the fire department. Mr.McKesson stated the design of the cul-de-sac will alloy/for school buses to turn and emergency vehicles to access through the crash gate and we would maintain those facilities. Mr.Van Soulen stated one reason the real estate is tight is that there are four or five different pipeline easements that are cutting through here, The cul-de-sac wilt be designed as big as he can within the limits of the pipeline agreements. Mr.Locke asked if the commissioners are considering this he would request they provide the county with a drawing of what they are planning and the easements and what can be constructed. We don't want to approve something that can't be built. Mr.Locke stated you-may want to ask for the people living in the back section to sign off. Mr. McKesson stated they would meet with the school district and safety agencies as well as a sign off from the neighbors. Mr. VanSoulen stated we have supported all this development with this condition,the longer this decision gets put off,it will be too late once Home Depot is built. This is his one chance to get this done.Holt stated it would be helpful for the school system and the fire .department if you can show them the cud-de-sac design. Mr.Locke stated typically there are plans that show exactly what will go in and they normally send the highway department a letter stating that don't object or they agree with the plan as drawn so everyone is aware of what it is. If all of those things can he taken care of,it would be helpful. It would also be helpful that each resident sign something stating that they are aware that this is being built and the school corporation will not send a bus back there and they understand the fire issues. Mr.Locke asked Mr.McKesson to get the design to the highway department first so we can review it. Clark motioned to table so we can get the signatures from the residents as well as approval from the school board and fire department. Dillinger seconded. Motion carried unanimously. Holt called a break at 2:00 p.m. Holt called the meeting back to order at 2:30 p.m. Agreements:(Tape 2,#82I) West Carmel Center,Block D Inspection Agreements: Mr,Locke requested approval of Inspection and Testing Agreements,HCHD#A00-O014,for West Cannel Center Block D between the Glendale Partners and Hamilton County and between Hamilton County and United Consulting Engineers in the amount of • $5,700.00. Dillinger motioned to approve. Clark seconded, Motion carried unanimously. • Canal Place Landscape Sprinkler System Agreement: Mr.Locke requested approval of an agreement.between Hamilton County and Canal Place Property Owners Association, I•ICND#M-00-0037,for a landscape sprinkler system in the right-of:way. Dillinger motioned to approve. Clark seconded. Motion carried unanimously. Bridge#129 Agreement: Mr.Locke requested approval of an agreement between Hamilton County and the State of Indiana,HCHD#M-00-0038,for Bridge#129 on Prairie Baptist Road over William Lock Ditch. This is a federal aid project. Total estimated project costs are $971,000. Hamilton County's share is$149,000. This covers construction and construction inspection. Dillinger motioned to approve. Clark seconded. Motion carried unanimously. - • the building. The Overlay Zone does not wants any large project to look like a big box. The variance required for this elevation is concerned with the entrance proportionality. April Hensley, Leach Hensley Architects told the Commission that the Target store wanted to create a Federal style building that met the desired spirit of the Federal style. Ms. Hensley cites the detail and described the extra effort. Brick detail is used to break up the face of the building and there are a lot of steps in and out of the front line of the building. There are less than 60 feet for all steps in the building. The requested variances are for height and peaks to make building more attractive. The other variance is for the entry because it is not to the proportion that would standardly be considered a federal style. Because of the numerous doors that are required to meet ingress and egress code, it is very difficult to make that work in Federal proportion. Brick will be used across the front of the building with a base of split face block. The side and rear exteriors will be either"Qwik-Brick", a 4-inch masonry product, or a split face to look like standard brick. Kevin McKasson believes the code allows 35 feet. The entrance is 38.5 feet at peak. The code allows for other masonry materials on the side and rear of the building. Brick will be used on the front. This is not a standard Target store. There is an upscale look to this building. Target has tried very hard to make the project meet Overlay Zone requirements. The project is the key to this corridor. Mr. McKasson displayed a conceptual plan for the outlot buildings. They are the same as the conceptual buildings of West Cannel Shoppes. The petitioner will return for further approval. The staff report stated the lighting plan exceeds maximum levels. Jamie Poczekay said the plan is now consistent with Michigan Road requirements. Mr. McKasson said they will adhere to regulations. The Overlay sign provisions require special use permits for all signage. The code allows 40 square feet of signage. They are asking for minimum size of signage allowed by Target corporate office. Mr. McKasson displayed the signage proposed. They will go to BZA for the sign variances. Kevin McKasson reviewed the variances, SU 34-00 through V 47-00, are to be presented at the May 22, 2000 Board of Zoning Appeals meeting. Chairman Cremeans called for favorable public comments. Michael Dugan, 3805 Carwinion Way, said his road connects to Commerce Drive. He provided detailed comments in writing. This represents six months of very diligent work by Glendale Partners working with community. Mr. Dugan represents Ashbrooke subdivision. The owners know there will be development and believe that final development of the subdivision will be better if a well done, "known"project is approved rather than"unknown" lying immediately to their west. They want to see construction move ahead in a timely fashion. They reached an agreement with Mr. McKasson to get some road work done. s:\P1anCommission\Minutes.pc\pc2000may 5 There was no unfavorable remonstrance. Mr. Kevin McKasson stated a promise was made to the neighbors concerning Carwinion Drive which connects with Commerce Drive. Commerce Drive is projected to be a secondary arterial road someday going as far south as 96th Street peti'`t38 rvllgo ' fi et. `ou MEg a Department tgft atha :'ar agii vibe tiamed to atiiit reducecommeicaTjtraff eThey will allow for emergency traffic to enter if necessary, t c"Tto sary, but will discourage commercial traffic. Laurence Lillig stated this project will go before Board of Zoning Appeals on May 22, 2000 for public hearing on two special use petitions and twelve developmental standards variance petitions. The petitioner understands that the BZA must make its approvals before final action can be taken by the Commission. Therefore, the department recommends that these petitions be forwarded to the Special Study Committee for further review. Chairman Cremeans closed the public hearing. Pat Rice commended Kevin McKasson for working with the community. She inquired what the backside of detailed peaks look like. Weston Shoppes was the first project and he did not know these peaks were visible from the rear. West Carmel Shoppes used the shingle material. On this project if the peaks are visible from the rear of the buildings they will have the same shingle treatment as the front of the building. Madeline Fitzgerald inquired about external dumpsters, cart corrals,,seasonal outdoor plant sales, outdoor storage of salt, pools, and summer toys. Chairman Cremeans decided those questions would be resolved in subcommittee. Ron Houck stated signage must be addressed at subcommittee. He is also concerned about the shoe box light fixtures. He is unclear about illumination. This will be reviewed at subcommittee. Marilyn Anderson commented that Michigan Road is a major road. She urged the committee to look at curb cuts to reduce the number of cuts. Leo Dierckman will note the issues for special studies. Bob Modisett asks for a large overall aerial to see surrounding development. It would be helpful to have an enlarged,board-mounted aerial. Mr. Cremeans likes the project and believes it will be a good store for Target. He wants the committee to cover many items. His concerns are with curb cuts and seas of asphalt. Chairman Cremeans moved the project to the June 6th Special Study Committee. 8`7 R' e ..r 7; „„ WA17:Ce7 us"402ut P Mt _ 6 li. Docket No. 97-99 SP, Secondary Plat application for Glendale Partners. Petitioner seeks approval to plat one lot on 24.848 acres in order to construct three commercial buildings. The site is located at 10401 North Michigan Road at West Carmel Center,Block D. The site is zoned B-3/Business and is located within the US 421/Michigan Road Overlay Zone. Note: This item is paired with Item 4i. (Docket No. 73-00 DP/ADLS) Filed by Kevin D. McKasson of Glendale Partners. 4i. ., v _IDevelopment Plan and Architectural Design, Lighting & Signage applications for Glendale Partners. The petitioner seeks approval to construct three buildings on 24.848 acres for a Target department store. The site is located at 10401 North Michigan Road at West Carmel Center, Block D. The site is zoned B-3/Business and is located within the US 421 Overlay Zone. Note: This item is paired with Item li. (Docket No. 97-99 SP) Filed by Kevin D. McKasson of Glendale Partners Kevin D. McKasson.of Glendale Partners appeared before the Commission. The Target store will be veneered with a"Qwik-Brick" masonry product, a color similar to the brick veneer that will be installed on the front of the building. Also, there will be architectural detail on the sides of the building accenting the side walls as shown on the elevation submitted, as well as brick columns that wrap the front corners of the building. The Special Study Committee did review the design package submitted. The petitioner has agreed that landscaping will be installed and maintained according to the plans approved by the Carmel Depaitnient of Community Services. The petitioner has also agreed NOT to have cart corrals on the premises; however, IF cart corrals are present, they will be constructed of a brick material identical to the front of the building and will be high enough to conceal the carts from view. The petitioner also commits to NO Outside Storage; however, if there is outside storage, it will be completely screened from view and subject to further approval by the Plan Commission. In other words, the petitioner will return to the Commission if outside storage is desired. Sign Brightness: This shall be adjusted to conform to the adjacent signage in the 421 Overlay Zone as requested by the Department of Community Services. The sign brightness will be assessed from the 421 right-of-way. Paul Spranger reported that the Special Study Committee did approve these items. The petitioner has agreed to incorporate keys in the corners of simulated limestone, and continue the limestone design around the sides of the building. For clarification, the sign brightness issue was left at the Department's discretion and if found to be in excess, the Department would ask the petitioner to reduce the brightness appropriately. The cart corrals are accurately represented. s:\P1anCommission\Minutes\pc2000ju1 14 In response to questions from Marilyn Anderson, Kevin McKasson stated that the size of the sign was negotiated at the Board of Zoning Appeals by way of variance; the sizes of signs are accurately reflected in the information packets. hepe itio X has�mad eC T i s�q;r tri ei totbeAsb ooke' `.om eoo-T©er tha=they i F iik i omlr dso th e 'Cort 41, 46;*, co o c'tlon to o n erce D " =�e pr 1 oner 1�a i' eeao. withst the p4ense o the eifiW,-saewand will be meeting with' es ocke,. ;'6f Eh`;e-4:44,1,L9P ity:Engu 91, gt.pt Jim O'Neal was complimentary of the petitioner and his patience and perseverance in working with the Committee. Steve Engelking asked for clarification of the light intensity measurement. Kevin McKasson responded that the Department of Community Services will have the right to assess brightness of the sign lighting, and the petitioner will adjust accordingly. SteirW e 05"xko rte t tedgthati tl e cu:�.de=sat in Ashb o�oke w.ouldbrea i e'the e='' a' .�t . � e xaaraa ,.,� w �. r'w+ ^r 1 � ro , +*a��raa" � _. pl t nI of- �shb ooze�The t rough Qa was used a a�i* o.-thee' affic4Aalf61 shbroo eland its,appro al procese Kevin McKasson responded that his commitment to the community was in advance of the re-platting and ADLS request. The petitioner is aware of the situation. igrr o es s ge'ry t Y%a} h�e i ti=e yj spte t t hisr ' a-w S3 Yreq c atedda gel�91144 <cnneeor�.+ms t Ye roo r't fr . Pto ¢ al;, n ionf ,,, ecbx o t et e ,Wit gge pcue )sbe Oli eO'P eT a the :road�an 7k y the n p its are grate �T ie ituat dti idlik e tofibe look inn: ery GaiP�"f=T:l�lly: Ron Houck commented that in sensitivity to the Ashbrooke residents, the Plan Commission would not necessarily want to be in a position of shunting commercial traffic through a residential area. Also, in regard to the cart corrals, who determines if they are needed? Kevin McKasson responded that operationally, Target will determine if cart corrals are needed. Manpower will remove the carts from the parking lot; if they cannot remove the carts from the lot, Target will install brick cart corrals. Paul Spranger clarified the cart corral situation.discussed at Committee. The Special Study Committee recommended that the corrals be bricked with the same type of material as the facia of the building. The petitioner has agreed to comply with the Plan Commission's guidelines, and the solution to the cart corral is reasonable. Ron Houck suggested that some latitude be given to the Department regarding the cart corrals. s:\P1anCommission\Minutes\pc2000jul 15 Dave Cremeans had a very simple solution: If the carts are left in the parking lots, there will be no place for the cars. If there is no place to park cars, there will be no customers. If there are no customers, there are no carts in the parking lots. It is a self-policing kind of situation. Norma Meighen thought that the cart situation should be policed and something should be in writing as to a solution. Madeline Fitzgerald felt that this type of policing would put an undue burden on the Department of Community Services. Steve Engelking stated that if the petitioner wanted to install cart corrals, they would have to return for DP/ADLS review amendment under the terms of the 421 Overlay. Jim O'Neal moved for the approval of Docket No. 97-99 SP,West Carmel Center, Block D. APPROVED 15 in favor, none opposed. Jim O'Neal moved for he approval of Docket No. 73-00 DP/ADLS, Target, West Carmel Center, Block D. APPROVED 15 in favor, none opposed. 5i. Docket No. 79-00 Z,Rezone petition for Essex Corporation. The petitioner seeks a favorable recommendation of a rezone from R-1 to B-6 on 5.00 acres in order to build a 72 room, 99,000 square foot retirement facility to be known as Carmel Oaks. The site is located at 1011 South Guilford Road. The site is zoned R- 1/Residence. Filed by James J. Nelson of Nelson&Frankenberger for the Essex Corporation. Jim Nelson, 3663 Brumley Way, Carmel, appeared before the Commission representing the applicant. As a follow-up to the May 16t public hearing, the Essex Corporation rezone request was reviewed by the Special Study Committee in July. The committee confirmed the commitments that had been presented and secondly, reviewed the revised site and building plans that were modified at the request of Richard Johnson, neighbor to the north. The orientation of the building is to the north rather than the south. The Essex Cororation has confirmed with Mr. Richard Johnson the availability of water service to his parcel through the Essex parcel, and ultimately from the City of Carmel. The petitioner has also provided the management of Lenox Trace with an agreement that they will install additional landscaping on their site immediately opposite the entrance into Carmel Oaks. At this time, the petitioner is seeking a favorable recommendation for its request for a rezone. s:\PlanCommission\Mmutes\pc2000jul 16