HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes PC 11-15-88 CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 15, 1988 31
The regular meeting of the Carmel Plan Commission was called to order
by Jeff Davis, Chairman , 7: 35h
NoNovf ember
legia1988 at the City Meeting
Hall . The meeting opened
The roll was called and members present were as follows: Jeff Davis, Sue
McMullen , Frank Fleming , Richard Albright , Bob Boone, Max Moore, Sandra Long,
Ila Badger , Henrietta Lamb , Alan Potasnik and Jim O 'Neal . Betty Stevenson
and Ted Johnson were absent.
Staff members present were, Wes Bucher , Chuck Kiphart , David Cunningham,
Rick Brandau, Gordon Byers and Dorthy Neisler.
Mrs. Badger made the following corrections to the October 18, 1988
meeting minutes: The first page right before the public hearing should read:
Mr. Albright pointed out that by State Statute it is the Plan Commission who
has the authority to retain a consultant not. the Department of Community
Development , on page 3 the 7th paragraph down should read Dr. John Pittman ,
on Page 4 Item #4, the second sentence should read: The proposed change would
restrict retail businesses to a story or more office building , Page 6,
paragraph 10 should read: Mr . Nelson is not. involved in t.hn legal part of aJAE
prior petition , on page 7 after paragraph 4 should be inserted: Mrs. Badger
questioned who had interpreted the ordinance in this way since that option is
not stated? She asked for a Plan Commission review and opinion on Sec.
6. 3.2. 1 and on page 8 under New Business, ii . second paragraph should read:
Mrs. Badger moved that Docket No. 100-88 ADLS be tabled and come back to the
public hearing with color exhibits and an adequate presentation that can be
seen by all Plan Commission members.
Mrs. McMullen moved that the minutes from October 18th , 1988 meeting be
approved with the above corrections.
Mr. Fleming seconded.
Motion carried.
G. PUBLIC HEARING
1g. 7: 30 P.M. , Public hearing on Docket No. 83-88 Z a rezone
application for 6. 136 acres of land located at the South West
corner of US 31 (Meridian St. ) and 136th Street , Clay Township ,
Hamilton County, IN. Site is currently zoned R-2 and S-2.
ezoni
request is to zone this site to a B-5 Zone Classification. No
commitments or covenants have been submitted as a part of the
application.
Filed by Mr. E. Davis Coots for Mr. Thomas C. Kleck , Applicant.
•
The public hearing opened at 7: 40 P.M.
Mr. E. Davis Coots, 255 E. Carmel Drive, Carmel made a presentation ,
copies of which are on file at the Carmel Department Of Community
Development.
An aerial photo of the site was shown.
Mr. Jim Huston , 13625 Thistlewood Dr. East , President of the Thistlewooc
Homeowner 's Association spoke of their concerns with this project (which is
part of the official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mr. Paul Boster , 320 Holloway Dr. spoke in concern of the storm
drainage. Mr. Boster requested that the culvert that crosses 136th Street t
brought up to standards, a landscape mound of 5 ' tall and 15 ' awide needs to
t
installed between resid�ere�landand
as`cmanyss treessasopossibledensity
should be
lights need to be cons
preserved.
Ms. Jill Hoffman Wall , 950 W. 158th Street , spoke against any change ii
RMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 15, 1988
Page 2
zoning. Ms. Wall is concerned about lack of security, the need for a
greenbelt , increase of noise and light pollution, privacy, congestion of
traffic, childrens safety and property value.
The public hearing was closed at 7: 54 P. M.
Mr. Coots responded to the public comments regarding the proposes rezone..
application, several of the concerns that have been presented will be
addressed by different bodies during further presentations, the drainage must
be controlled , the developer has little control over security. The
Petitioner will improve the roadway adjacent to the piece of property,
sidewalks are required, burming and buffering from the adjacent property is a
requirement of the U. S. 31 ordinance. The proposal that has been presented
contemplates good development for this piece of property.
Mr. Potasnik asked if the covenants have been submitted to the Department
ofCommunityDevelopment? � ,,� �. � ,,., �i, l � �.�.� .
F operty- i s encumbered by the U. S. 1 overlay zone 1 '
Mr. Coots said the �r one and
will be developed according to that requirement. At this time there are no
covenants other than the requirement contemplated by the U. S. 31 overlay zone
requirements. We will covenant a single story building structure at the time
as a condition of the rezone or at the time we go to Plan Commission for ADLS
approval . Light spillage, noise or hours of operation , etc. , those would be
mandated by the 8-5 zoning classification and the U. S. 31 31 Corridor Overlay
. Zone.
Mrs. Badger questioned , what is your required greenbelt area against
residential property?
Mr. Davis stated that it is 30 ' .
Mrs. Badger questioned how long Mr. Keck has owned the property, who had
it been purchased from and is it the same person who owns the land to the
West?
Mr. Coots stated Mr. Kleck has owned this property for approximately
seven years.
Mr. Albright asked if we could have legal council
givusac
what takes precedent when we have two legally adopted ordinancesme whichlare
eon
in
direct conflict with each other , the underlying zone and the requirements of
the Meridian Corridor. This is zoned residential and yet there is a minimum
size requirement in corridor for 15,000 square feet , both of these ordinances
were passed by the City Council ; which takes precedents?
Mr. Byers stated that when the overlay zones and the underlying zoning
districts were established : it was the intent the pro_jett has to comply with
both, one regulates use and the other imposes higher development standards,
both have to he in complied with.
Mrs. Badger requested that the Technical Advisory Committee address these
issues.
This was referred to the Land Use Committee on December 6th , 1988 at 7: 30
P.M. , at City Meeting Hall .
2g. 7: 30 P. M. , Public Hearing on Docket NO. 97-88 Z a rezone
Application for 23. 0 acres of land located on the East side of US
421 Michigan Road approximately 1/3 mile South of 116th Street
gust South of the Woodhaven Subdivision in Clay Township, Hamilton
County, IN> Site is currently zoned S-1 single family
residential . Rezone request is to zone
this sito a 8-3
Business district for a Garden Center/Landscapete Nursery. Special
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CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 15, 1q88 ,�,�
commitments have been filed with this application.
Filed by Mr. Robert Altom, Owner .
The public hearing opened at 8: 06 P . M. of Campbell , Kyle and Proffitt made
Mr. Wm. Wendling , 650 E. Carmel Drive Department of
of which is on file at the Carmelep
a presentation , a copy
Community De«elopment^ lt t with Campbell , Kyle & Proffitt , Mr.
Mr. Tim Stevens, Land Use Consu a» Brian Wilson , Project Engineer
and Mrs. Bob Altom and son , Jim Altom and Mr..
from Mid State Engineering were Present^ i of the project and renderings
An aerial view , a conceptual site design
of the proposed nursery and garden center were shown. the speed of traffic
Mr . Peter Furno of Timberidge spoke in concern of be
and the width of the highway and what kinds of safety couldinstigated.The public hearing closed at 8: 23 P. M. .
Mr. Brian Wilson , Mid-State Engineering stated thatfrom one part of the
approval process State
Highway Department as well as from Carmel .indicates the need to obtain a permit , " the Indiana� ter
We will build a passing �/ zs
of 650 ' in length and also accel and decel lanes.
Mr. Boone asked what the purpose of inserting the wordPrimaryinyourDo
t " hall be permitted as primary uses of the property"? the
closing statement , s don 't need the word primary zn
you intend to have just 10 uses, if so you
statement~ ndling had no objections to removing the word primary.
nr^ w� ern regarding the traffic .
Mr. Boone also has a concern
This project was referred tothe Land Use Committee on December 6, 1988,
at 7: 30 P. M. at the City Meeting Hall .
3g. 7: 30 P M Public Hearing on Docket No. 102-88 P. P. a Preliminary
Plat Application
P. ^ � Ashton Subdivision , this plat includes 12"
on for i
lots on 74. 6 acresof land to be located at the Southwest corner
of 146th Street and Hazeldale Road , Clay Township , Hamilton Co. ,IN. S-1 single family residential .
Filed Site is zoned
by Mr. Dick Fisher , Owner/Developer.
The public hearing opened at 8: 27 P.M. . N. College made a presentation , a
Mr. Stan Neil , Weihe Engineering , 10505 �t
file at Carmel Department of Community Development.
copy of which is on
Mr. Bill Adams of Safco Developers was present.
An Aerial view map was shown.
The public hearing was closed at 8: 33 P. M.
Mr. Potasnik asked what are you planning to do on Hazeldale Road , what
improvements will you be making?e widening their half of Hazeldale Road to a
Mr Neil stated they woulo o
^
15 ' surface with a 3 ' stone shoulder .
Mrs. Lamb questioned if they would be upgrading 146th Street?t
would be upgrading their half of 146rn St.
Mr. Neil stated they
This was referred to the Subdivision Committee meeting on December 6,
1988 at 7: 30 P. M. at the City Meeting Hall .
7 30 P. M. , Public Hearing on Docket No. 103-88 Z a rezone
corner
4g. :application for 10 9 acres of land located at the Northwestel
apP a �u ^ t Avenue, City of Carmel , IN.
of 126th Street and S. R. 431 Keystoneid residential . Rezone
R 2 single family res e .
Site is currently zoned -
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�g�RMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 15, 1989 Page 4
request is to zone this site to an R-4 residential and B 2
Business zones for apartments and a retail center -
have been filed with the application ~ N o commitments
Filed by Mr. E. Davis Coots for Eaton^ & Lauth C
Development Company.
' ommunity
The public hearing opened at 8: 35 P. M
Mr. E. Davis Coots, 255 E. Carmel D^ri ^ ^
which is on file at the Carmel «e made a Presentation a copy of
Mr. John Hart , President
Department of Community Development
and Mr. Gary Weavr en� of Eaton & Lauth , Mr. Bill Rusk ofEa^on & Lauth
Corporation wer � ' a l an� planner , retained by the Development `�ommunit
' e present. y
A site analysis plan and an aerial view was show
Mr. Coots stated that a traffic study has beenn^
improvements that were presented would more thans«umitted^ The
traffic, adequately handle the
CommMr. iJeffbDavis said we had received 170 letters addressed tothePlan
Commission objecting to the rezoning of this project and
received were read (which is a part of the officialconcerns that were
the Master Copy) , minutes and attached to
Ms. Phil Squier, Board Member of the Cool Creek Civic Association spoke
in opposition- --~n ^" this project. Ms. Squier 's conc
safety, future commercial sites along Keystone, derns are traffic , childrens
drainage, crime, access lighting from commercial angerous intersection , the
of her Presentation is a part of the official mi business (a completed copy
Master Copy) , nuces and attached to the
Mr. Ralph Randall , 3246 Eden Way Place spoke in reference to the rul
~. "i..a./ceschanged
o� �armel which , should not be ch d es
and
minute. Mr. Randall requested Plan Commission toon a spur of the
presented and submitted a signed objection by himself ,
this project as
twenty one year old son , John Randall _ m e� � ' his wife and their
Mr. Robert Smith of Carmel Village spoke; he is
crime and traffic that this rezone would bring aboutconcerned and about the
Mr. Dale Graham, 828 Hickory Drive spoke in o ^ iti
1 ) the zoning is a designation is a plan and ppos on of this project ,
a pr
build our lives and our homes on plans and promise; 2) we believe and we
obligation or do we believe does the Plan C promises; 3) the neighbors have no
and land or support commercial venturebCommission to remedy speculation
The request for rezoning is not beyond a reasonable organized
reasonable for this location because; a)
violates the spirit of the promise
plan.
se c^e City has made; b) violates the
investment that residents have m
ade; c) it gives a change of signal to the
60% of our neighbors who
tare new in the last fifteen years and have purchased
their homes with the hi
request have been denied;
historical information that previous zoning change
eo; d) it is unnecessary and a potentially dangerous
idea (which is a partthe
of official minutes and attached to the Master
Mr. Ronald Daugherty, 3749 Coventry Way of Brookshire Homeowners
Association spoke in opposition to this project and request t
��sions deny this rezone request, he Plan
Comm
The public hearing was closed at 9: 22 P. M.
p, M, This was referred to the Land Use Committee on December 6, 1988 at 7 30
, at the City Meeting Hall . :
H. OLD BUS
1h. Commission to consider Docket No. 90-88 P. P. a Primary Plat
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 15, 1999 35
(Cluster Housing) application for Lake Forest Subdivision. This
plat includes 158 lots on 70. 3 acres of land located on the North
side of 116th Street , 1/2 mile east of Gray Road , Clay Township ,
Hamilton County, Indiana. Site is zoned S-i , single family
residential . No variances are requested.
Filed by Mr. Mark Boyce for the C. P. Morgan Co. , Inc.
(TABLED AT SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE)
This item has been tabled.
2h. Commission to consider Docket No. 94-88 Z (A) a rezone application
for 11 . 638 acres of land located at the southeast corner of State
Highway 431 (Keystone Avenue) . Site is currently zoned B--5.
Rezone request is to rezone this site to a B-3 Business zone. (B)
a rezone application for 35.713 acres of land located
approximately 1200 feet east of the intersection of 146th Street
and State Highway 431 (Keystone Avenue) on the south side of 146th
Street. Site is currently zoned B-5. Rezone request is to rezone
this site also B-3 and R-3 residential zone.
Filed by Mr. Jim Nelson for Mr. Thomas Leonard for Bayview
Development Corp. , Inc.
(TABLED AT LAND USE COMMITTEE)
This item has been tabled.
3h. Commission to consider Docket No. 96-88 ADLS an Architectural
Design , Lighting , Landscaping , Signage and Site plan review for
Carmel Office Ct. (Phase One) a new four (4) building , one story,
22,037 sq. ft. office complex located between Carmel Drive and
Carmel Medical Drive directly South of the existing Carmel Putt
Putt facility. Site is zoned B-8 and 5. 642 acres in size.
Filed by Mr. Mark Boyce for the C. P. Morgan Co. , Inc.
The Industrial and Commercial Committee report was read by Mr. Boone (a
summarized report is a part of the official minutes and attached to the
Master Copy) .
Mr. Boone moved that Docket No. 96-88 AILS be approved pending staff and
TAC review.
Mr. Moore seconded.
Mr. Mark Royce of C. P. Morgan , Inc. made a presentation , a coy of which
is on file at Carmel Department of Communi ty Devel oprnent.
Motion was approved 11-0.
4h. Commission to consider Docket No. 99-88 O. A. an ordinance
amendment to the Carmel /Clay Zoning Ordinance Z-160 as amended to
the following sections of the ordinance:
1 . Zoning Ordinance 2-211 - Satellite Receiving Antennas
(TABLED AT INDUSTRIAL °< COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE)
2. Zoning Ordinance Z-160, section 5. 0. 1 , S-1 , Residential
District , Purpose & Intent and Section 5. 4. 7 minimum lot
size.
(ASSIGNED TO EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE WITH PUBLIC MEETING ON NOVEMBER
29, 1988.
Zoning Ordinance Z-160, section 23.01-5 permitted uses in the
7.. U. S. 31 Corridor Overlay Zone.
(LAND USE COMMITTEE HAS RECOMMENDATION)
Filed by the Carmel /Clay Plan Commission.
Land Use Committee Report was read by Mrs. Badger (which ' is a part of the
MEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 15, 1988 Page 6
official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mrs. Badger moved that this proposed ordinance change regarding retail
sales in the U. S. 31 overlay be approved.
Mrs. McMullen seconded.
Denied 0-11 .
5h. Commission to consider Docket No. 100-88 ADLS an Architectural
Design , Lighting , Landscape, Signage and Site plan review for a
new one story, 5533 sq. ft. Napa Auto Parts building located South
of Medical Drive, Carmel , IN. Site is zoned 8-2 and B-8 and . 75
acres in size.
Filed by John and Sandra Beeler.
Booklets were passed out to all board members by Mr. Beeler.
The Industrial and Commercial committee report was read by Mr. Boone, a
summarized report of the high points (which is a part of the official minutes
and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mr. Boone moved that Docket No. 100-88 ADLS be approved complying
withstaff recommendations and there will be no outside storage or display of
materials.
Mr. Moore seconded.
Mr. Kiphart stated that the staff concerns had been met.
Dr. Long questioned what the exterior material would be and how large
will the Norway Spruce trees be?
Mr. Beeler said that three sides, the North , East and West side will be
split faced block , South side will be regular block. The trees will be 5-6 '
tall at time of planting and will be 10-20 ' apart.
Mr. Potasnik questioned if there were any bay doors on the South side of
the building and if it is all solid block.
Mr. Beeler stated there are no bay doors on South side and is all solid
block.
Dr. Long asked if there are any plans to put sidewalks in along Medical
Drive.
Mr. Beeler has committed to putting sidewalks in along Medical Drive
along his property.
Motion was approved 9-2 with Mr. Potasnik and Mrs. Badger voting against.
6h. Commission to consider Docket No. 101-88 ADLS on Architectural
Design , Lighting , Landscape, Signage and Site plan review for
Fo„worthy/Wiese Ford Dealership located at the Northwest corner of
State Road 431 (Keystone Ave. ) . Site is zoned 8-3 and a part of
it is located in the 4.31-Keystone Corridor Overlay Zone. Site is
7. 315 acres in size and located in Clay Township, Hamilton Co. ,
IN. Petitioner proposed to add onto and upgrade existing
building , expand parking lot , change lighting , landscaping ,
drainage, signage, etc.
Filed by Mr. Jim Nelson for Mr. Norman Wiese.
The Industrial and Commercial meeting minutes were read by Mr. Boone
(which is a part of the official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mr. Moore moved that Docket No. 101-88 be approved subject to the TAC anc
staff recommendations.
Mr. Boone seconded.
Mr. Kiphart stated that on the landscape plan they had requested some
changes to be made on original plan and petitioner has agreed to those
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CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 15, 1988 ��
changes. Revised plans have been submitted according to Mr. Overbeck. Mr.
itt d for
Kiphart stated that the time comm the landscaping to be completed el
was correct and Mr. Nelson anticipates project being e ng comp et ed before that
time.
' 'r Nelson stated that the staff recommendations for the projects to be
completed by May 1990, and they anticipate it to be completed by December 1989. There are two pole signs that we were requested to move by October
1989 and that should not be a problem.
Mrs. McMullen asked if the Board of Zoning Appeals variances needed are
for parking in the 431 greenbelt^ fromthe BZA, 1 ) a special
Mr. Nelson stated there are four things needed
use approval , 2) current parking 5 ' from right-of-way variance, 3)
improvementwithin� ithin the 120 ' setback limits of the 431 overlay zone, and 4)
identification sign is 119 sq. ft. in size and ordinance provides maximum can
be 100 sq. ft.
Motion was approved 11-0.
I . NEW BUSINESS
1i Commission to consider Docket No. 105-88 ADLS, Sign change for
^ ptnnegate Apartments. Project is located at 429 Third Avenue N. W.
Carmel IN. Site is zoned R-4 and is 13. 0 acres in size.
Petitioner' is requesting a change in the existing sign package for
the 9\ nnegate Apartment complex .
Filed by Toby McClamrock , Attorney for Griffin Real Estate Fund.
Mr. Toby McClamrock Attorney for Stonegate made a presentation, a copy of
which is on file at Carmel Department of Community Development.
Pictures of the signs were passed around for all board members to view.
Mrs. Badger questioned are these legal nonconforming signs or legal
conforming signs? the existing signs are illegal . The petitioner
Mr. Brandau stated
that - - i
changed the signs without City approval . There are two signs that do not
conform which will be before the BZA.
This project was referred to the Industrial and Commercial Committee on
December 6, 1988 at 7: 30 P.M. at the City Meeting Hall .
2i . Commission to consider Docket No. 106-88 ADLS, Sign change for
Carmel Knoll Apartments. Project is located at 14 Knoll Court ,
Carmel IN. Site is zoned R-4. Petitioner is requesting a change
in an e`xisting sign located on the Northside of 404 West Main
Street , Carmel , IN.
Filed by Mr. John F. Sweeney for Carmel Knoll Associates.
forCamel Knoll Apartments made a
Mr. Robert Hawk , Property Managerril �me
presentation , a copy of which is on file atCarmel Department of Community
Development.
Mrs. Badger questioned if this sign is in conformance with the ordinance
in all ways? the ordinance, accept it has
Mr. Kiphart stated it is in conformance with
no permit and it was not approved by the Plan Commission'
Mr. Potasnik asked if when a sign goes up like this without a permit , is
there any type of a fine procedure? theDOCD, so
N� Mr. Kiphart stated that the petitioner was working with
MBRMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 15, 1988 Page 8
there was no fine imposed.
This item was referred to the Industrial and Commercial Committee on
December 6, 1988 at 7: 30 P. M. at the City Meeting Hall .
3i . Commission to consider Docket No. 107-88 ADLS, an Architectural
Design , Lighting , Signage Application for Mr. Philip Klapper to
operate a temporary Christmas Sales office and operation located —
in the front (Northside) parking lot at Carmel True Value Hardware
Store at 1122 Keystone Way, City of Carmel , IN. Site is zoned
8-8, Business.
Filed by Mr. Philip Klapper , Tenant.
Mr. Phil Klapper , Tenant made a presentation , which is on file at the
Carmel Department of Community Development. Mr. Klapper stated that the
sales area would be along the North side of the parking lot per submitted
plans.
Mrs. Badger asked if they do meet the parking requirements?
The petitioner does meet the parking requirements. There will be a small
8x12 building. There will be Christmas trees lights on the building.
Mr. Kiphart stated a permit will be required for the building and
temporary sale of Christmas Trees.
Mr. O 'Neal moved to suspend the rules and act on this tonight.
Mrs. Badger seconded.
Motion carried.
Mr. O 'Neal moved to approve Docket No. 107-88 ADLS for Mr. Klapper to
sell Christmas trees for 30 days.
Mrs. Badger seconded.
Approved 10-1 with Mr. Boone voting against.
J. ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS - STATUS/DIRECTION:
1 . Commercial Sidewalks (Report from the I & C Committee)
2. Cluster Housing (Report from Subdivision Committee)
3. Sign Ordinance Changes (Report from Ila Badger)
4. Outside Storage/Display (Report from Alan Potasnu::)
5. Shopping Center Parking Requirements.
6. Road Standards/Preconstruction Permits.
7. Tree Preservation Ordinance.
8. Lot Coverage Requirements.
There was no report from the I °. C Committee on the Commercial Sidewalks.
Cluster Housing item was tabled at committee for final review.
Mr. F'otasnik stated that the Department of Community Development is still
floundering and bureaucratic.
Mrs. Badger stated her committee will meet on November 22,
19 .
Mr. Davis stated that the Shopping Center Parking Requirements8will be
sent to the Industrial °< Commercial Committee for study and recommendations.
Mr. Davis stated that the Road Standards/Preconstruction Permits will be
sent to the Subdivision Committee for study and recommendations.
Mr. Davis suggested that the Tree Preservation Ordinance be considered
along with the Amendments to the Comprehensive Plan.
Mr. Davis stated that the Lot Coverage Requirements would be sent to the
Subdivision Committee to consider first as part of Cluster Housing Ordinance
Amendments, then as part of other single family residential zoned districts.
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - NOVEMBER 15, 1988
!„�
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There was no further business brought before the Plan Commission anu `the
meeting was adjourned at 10: 45 P.M. .
Chairman Secretary