HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes PC 09-20-88 13
CARMEL PLAN CUMMlSSlON MINUTES - SEP\ EUBER 20, 1988
The regular meeting of the Carmel Plan Commission was called to order
by Jeff Davis, Chairman , at 7: 35 P. M. , September 20, 1988 at the City Meeting
Hall , The meeting opened with the Pledge of Allegiance.
The roll was called and members present were as follows: Jeff Davis, Sue
McMullen , Frank Fleming , Richard Albright , Bob Boone, Max Moore, Sandra Long ,
Ted Johnson , Betty Stevenson , Ila Badger and Henrietta Lamb. Alan Potasnik
and Jim O 'Neal were absent.
Staff members present were, Chuck Kiphart , David Cunningham, Rick
Brandau, Gordon Byers and Dorthy Neisler .
Mrs. Badger moved that the minutes of the August 16, 1988 meeting be
approved as submitted with the following corrections.
Page 2, Item #1g , Docket No. 76-88 the vote was 7 for and 3 against (Mr.
Boone, Mr. Potasnik and Mrs. Badger) ; and Page 8, Item 5h , the vote was 6 for
and 2 against (Mr. Albright and Mrs. Lamb against ) and (Mr . Boone and Mr.
Johnson abstaining)
Mr. Davis seconded.
Mr. Albright circulated photographs showing several zoning violations in
the township. He stated that a year ago there was money put into the budget
for someone to help with enforcing the ordinances, and feels there' are a lot
of things that need to be taken care of . Also, there was money for video
equipment , equipment was purchased and never has been used.
Mr. Dyers stated the members of the Plan Commission who notice zoning
violations should contact the Department of Community Development.
Mr. Kiphart stated that Rick Brandau and David Cunningham were handling
violations. Rick has been working on sign violations and sign permits and
Dave has been handling all other violations, which average two or three a
day. They are investigated and the proper notices are sent. It may take 10
days to two weeks to get them before Judge Hughes.
The video tape issue will be taken up at the next Executive Committee
meeting. Mr. Johnson requested the Plan Commission get a report back from
the Executive Committee or to what was discussed at their meetings.
Mrs. Badger recommended that the secretary attend Executive Committee
meetings in order to take the minutes.
G. PUl8=IC HEARING
1g. 7: 30 P. M. , Public hearing on Docket No. 89-88 DP/ADLS for 8-7
Zone. A development plan for Dr. Martin Linderman office building
at 82 6th St. S. E. , Carmel , IN. Petitioner is proposing to add on
to an existing dental office building , revise parking area and
landscaping.
Filed by Dr. Martin Linderman.
The public hearing opened at 7: 47 P. M.
Mr. Gordon Mess, 5865 E. 62nd Place, Indianapolis , Architect , with Power
of Attorney for Dr. Linderman made presentation , a copy of which is on file
with the Carmel Department of Community Development.
Site Plan showing parking and landscaping was presented.
An elevation plan of the existing building and proposed building addition
was shown.
There were no comments from the public.
The public hearing was closed at 7: 51 P. M.
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES .7 SEPTEMBER 20, 1988 PAGE 2
The IndurrAtriJoit and Commercial Committee report was read by Mr. Boone
(which is a part of the official minutes and attached to the master copy) .
The petitioner will he requesting variances from the Carmel Board of
Zoning Appeals for side and rear yard setbacks and green belt buffer.
Mr. Boone stated that at previous meetings there was concern about the
building addition being located to close to Mr. Holloway 's property to the
North.
Mr. Kiphart stated that existing building and yards are legal
nonconforming but when the property was rezoned to a B-7 and changes would
have to meet the B-7 requirements.
Mr. Boone questioned if they are adding anything onto the building closer
to the North property line then what currently exists. .
Mr. Kiphart stated they were not.
Mrs. Badger stated that Mr. Holloway did come to the meeting when the
petitioner requested a rezone of this site and was satisfied with the
proposed plan.
Mr. Boone moved that Docket 89-88 be approved as submitted contingent
upon Board of Zoning Appeal approval of the requested variance.
Mr. Moore seconded.
Approved 11-0.
2g. 7: 30 P. M. , Public Hearing on Docket No. 90-88 P.P. a Primary Plat
(Cluster Housing ) application for Lake Forest Subdivision. This
plat includes 158 lots on 70. 3 acres of land located on the North
side of 116th Street , 1 /2 mile east of Gray Road , Clay Township,
Hamilton County, Indiana. Site is zoned S-1 , single family
residential . No variance are requested.
Filed by Mr. Mark Boyce for the C. P. Morgan Co. , Inc.
The Public hearing opened at 8 P. M.
Mr. Jim Nelson, 3663 Brumley Way, Carmel representing C. P. Morgan made
presentation, a copy of which is on file with the Carmel Department of
Community Development.
Development'
Mr. Mark Boyce, V. P. of Development for C. P. Morgan , and Jack Southerland
of Schneider Engineering were present.
An aerial view was shown.
The development plan and site plan was shown.
The entrance signage rendering and architectural design rendering was
shown.
The public hearing closed at 8: 21 P. M.
Mrs. Badger spoke in great concern of the traffic problem on 116th
Street. Mrs. Badger would like when this goes to committee, to give
consideration to a passing blister on the South side of road and that excel
and decel lanes be extended much further than the normal requirements. Also
that the Technical Advisory Committee take this under consideration.
Mr. Albright stated that it appears there will be only about 40 ' between
the lots on the east side and American Aggregates main road in and out 'of
their plant. If project is surrounded by American Aggregate what is the
function of the two stub streets to the North and the West? Will the
property be developed at a later date?
Mr. Nelson stated that it was his understanding that American Aggregate
finds itself in a position that it is desirous of disposing of many of its
real estate holdings and believes it is (not factual ) once they are finished
moving them in four to five years American Aggregate is currently moving fron
the Northwest. The property adjacent to the stub streets have never been -_
mined.
Mr. Albright questioned the Fox , Sleeth and Westland soils, and it is not
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 20, 1988 PAGE 3
fea ible for basements , and water table is less than one foot. How doelShis
effect the retention pond?
Mr,. Nc;;.i.qrw r=e6d =,':rpt i r'Lic::10 from the Hamilton County survey stating , "The
main soil features that adversely effect engineering uses of this soil are
seasonal high water table, high potential frost action and slow
permeability. Dwellings and small buildings with basements should not be
constructed on this soil " .
Jack Snutherland , Schneider Engineering , 3020 N. Post Road , Indianapolis
stated as -far as retention lakes go with all the sub surface drains that are
proposed, the normal water table will be lowered by some 2-3 ' . In this
particular project we have 4 lakes, there will not be a big -fluctuation with
any of the lakes. American Aggregates operations has helped to lower the
natural water table in this area.
Dr. Long questioned what type of building material will be used on the
rear and si des of these home? What subdivision does this resemble?
Mr. Nelson stated the siding would be cedar and will resemble the homes
in Rohrer Woods with upgraded features. Pricing will be lower than Rohrer
Woods.
Mrs. Stevenson questioned the type of foundation that would be used.
Mr. Nelson stated they would he poured concrete, and block crawl. spaces.
Mr. Davis owns property to the North of American Aggregate. American
Aggregate is owned by an England Company and if they are planning on
disposing of any property the petitioner needs to have a letter indicating
so. American Aggregate has been mined for 40 years. Also, this may set a
precedent on how the rest of this section is going to be developed. There is
a considerable amount of noise from American Aggregate.
Mrs. Badger stated that this is a S--1 zone classification right now and
that the Plan Commission is considering changing the requirements to require
one acre minimum lots even when serviced by City, Water and Sewers, 2 acres
minimum if not serviced by Sewer and Water. She would like this committee to
keep this in mind when reviewing this project.
Mr. Albri-pht feels that the Technical Advisory Committee should take a
closer look at this project and give us some recommendations.
Mr. Moore questioned how far South does American Aggregate own?
Mr. Davis stated to River Road.
Mr. Moore stated then there would be more than one section effected here.
Mrs. Stevenson is concerned about there being only one entrance off of
116th Street and the approximately 300 cars going in and out of this
subdivision.
Mrs. Lamb Questioned where the entrance i.s in location to where the small
rise in 116th Street is?
Mr. Nelson stated approximately 600 ' from the rise.
This project was sent to the Subdivision Committee meeting on October 4,
1988 at 7: 30 F. M. at City Meeting Hall .
3g. 7: 30 P. M. Public Hearing on locket No. 91.88 F'. t'. , a Primary Flat
application for Laur-elwood Subdivision. This plat includes 63
lots on 128. 49 acres of land located on the south side of 106th
Street approximately 1/4 of a mile east of Ditch Road , Clay
Townhip , Hamilton County, IN. Site is zoned S--1 , single family
residential . Petitioner requests variances per the plat submitted
from the following sections of the Carmel Subdivision Regulations.
1 . 8. n. Sec. 8. 9 Sidewalks -- Sidewalks shall be mandatory for
all subdivisions.
2. 8. 0. Sec. 6. 3. 6 -- streets to be 30 ' wide back to back.
3. 8. 0. Sec. 6. ._ . ,_. 0 -- private streets are not to be platted.
1. 8. 0. Sere. f,. :' . ,_. 1. - A. Subdivision of 15 lots or more shall
have at least two (2) points of access.
r c CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 20, 1988 PAGE 4
1v B. Streets shall be extended to
adjacent tracts of land per Plan
Commission.
Filed by Mr. Robert J. Klein for KEL Investments Inc.
The public hearing opened at G: 43 F. M.
Mr. E. Davis Coots, 255 E. Carmel Drive, representing KEL Inv. made
presentation , a copy of which is on file at the Carmel Department Community
of Development.
Mr. R. J. Klein and Mr. Bruce Hagan of Mid State Engineering were present.
Mr. Coots stated that the 30 day notices were published and sent to all
adjacent property owners.
An aerial view and a plat map was shown.
Mr. R. J. Klein , 10649 Winterwood gave background of previous subdivisions
developed by KEL Inv. .
Mr. Charles Garrido, Jr. , 100.2 Cedar Ridge, President of Cedar Point
Homeowners Association. As a Homeowners Association they are in favor of the
sidewalk variance, entrance variance and landscaping for Cul-de-sacs
variance. Mr. Garrido read a letter which was mailed to the Plan Commission
stating the Homeowner Associations concerns (which is a part of the official
minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Ms. Linda Newcombe, 10510 Hussey Lane spoke of her concerns (which is a
part of the official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) . Also a signed
petition is attached.
Mr. Craig Amet , 501 Melark Drive, spoke on behalf of the Citizens for
Greenspace Awareness. The concerns of the nearby property owners that the
wooded area of the proposed Laurelwood Subdivision be developed using the
best methods available to protect the trees which are assets that the whole
community enjoys, (which is a part of the official minutes and attached to
the Master Copy) .
Mr. Pob Droker , 10096 Mill Run , presented his concerns and questioned of
the drainage situation. The fence that borders the South side of property,
will it be replaced and if so with what? Will new trees be added? Will road
be widened and improvements be made? Mr. Droker stated that this subdivision
will be a beautiful development.
The public hearing was closed at 9: 23 F. M.
Mr. Coots responded to the questions regarding the drainage question
stating that a drainage plan has been presented to the Hamilton County
Drainage Board and will be reviewed Thursday by TAC. Drainage has been
engineered by Mid State Engineering. The purpose for the detention pond is
to control on--site water flow that is created by the development of this
property. A drainage tile at the South boundary will have to be located and
suitable for the purpose of tying in subsurface drainage before it is
permitted to he done.
The covenants are dedicated and recorded and made a matter of public
record. They are incorporated within the body of the plat as it is
approved. The plat and covenants are approved the the Plan Commission and
are recorded and encumber each lot as it is developed. The Tree Protection
Plan is covered in the covenants.
The fence on the South side will be buffered with Pine trees.
Mr. Johnson feels that people are more interested in trees than they are
with safety. He feels there should be two entrances for fire, ambulances,
rescue squads, etc. for safety reasons.
This will be sent to the Subdivision Committee on October 4, 1988 at 7: 30
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 20, 1988 PAGE 5
P. M. ' at City Meeting Hall . 17
I . OLD BUSINESS
1i . Commission to consider Docket No. 70-88 ADLS, an Architectural
Design , Lighting and Signage Application for True Value Hardware.
Site is zoned 8-8 and located at 1. 122 Keystone Way. Petitioner
wishes to construct a permanent outside sales and storage facility
to be used as a garden center.
Filed by Clark Haggerman.
The industrial and Commercial committee report was read by Mr. Boone
(which is a part of the official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mr. Moore moved to approved Docket No. 70--S8 as submitted and per the I ':
C Committee Report.
Mrs. Stevenson seconded.
Mr. Clark Haggerman , 1122 Keystone Way made a presentation , a copy of
which is on file at. the Carmel. Department of Community Development.
Mr. Kiphart stated that any additional signage will need to meet the sign
ordinance.
Mr. Haggerman committed to having his project completed by December 15,
1988.
Approved per signage meeting all ordinance requirements 9-2 (Dr'. Long and
Mrs. Badger against) .
2i . Commission to consider Docket No. 74-88 DP/ADLS a Development Plan
and Architectural Design , Lighting , Landscaping and Signage for
Phase One of Meridian Corporate Plaza (Trammel Crow Co. project) .
Site is located directly North of 465 East of Meridian Street (US
31 ) and West of College Ave. , Clay Township , Hamilton County, IN.
Site is 69. 04 acres in size and zoned B--5, B-6 and B--7. Phase One
includes two (2) multi story office buildings, one 145,000 square
feet six stories high , second 63,000 square feet one three stories '
high.
Filed by Jim Nelson , Attorney for Crow, Hammes, Gillespie, Inc.
* (RECEIVED A NON DECISION VOTE AT AUGUST PLAN COMMISSION MEETING) .
A letter received from Mayor Hancock was read by Mr. Davis (which is a
part of the official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mr. Boone moved to approved Docket No. 74-88 as presented.
Mrs. McMullen seconded.
There was a lengthy discussion regarding the traffic situation and
traffic study.
Mr. Albright sent pictures around concerning the reworking of the ditch
and sidewalks on 103rd St.
Mr. Nelson stated that the intention is to put sidewalks in on 103rd
Street. This cannot be done without governmental approval .
Mr. Nelson has committed to putting in sidewalks on South side of 103rd
Street.
Mrs. McMullen Questioned how do you take care of the high pressured gas
line.
Mr. Chris White, of Paul I . Cripe, Inc. , stated that the road will be
raised an additional 1 foot at the crown and that pavement and asphalt will
be added on 103rd Street and slope back down to meet the other streets.
Mr. Nelson will send letter confirming that the sidewalks will be put in.
Approved 7-4 (Mr. Albright , Mr. Moore, Mrs. Stevenson and Mr. Johnson
against.
18 CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 20, 1988 PAGE 6
3i . Commission to consider Docket No. 79-88 ADLS the addition of a
blue neon light around the fascia of the Dan Young Chevrolet
dealership located at the Northeast corner of 96th Street and
Keystone Avenue in Carmel , IN. Site is zoned B-8!
Filed by Philip A. Nicely, Attorney for Alan V. Young, Dan Young
Chevrolet.
The Industrial and Commercial Committee report was read by Mr. Boone
(which is a part of the official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mr. Boone moved to approved Docket No. 79-88 as presented.
Mr. Moore seconded.
Mrs. Badger read her statement of objection (which is a part of the
official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mrs. Stevenson stated she had served on the I & C Committee and voted for
this project , she now has changed her mind after seeing the neon light and
would like to vote against it.
Mr. Byers stated photocopy of article from New York , does not give us a
legal precedent to stand on this issue. It does not effect Indiana. Mr.
Byers stated concern of our authority on this matter after variance has been
approved.
Mr. Steve Granier gave a recap of previous meeting. Mr. Granier stated
that the first meeting for Dan Young Chevrolet and Dan Young Honda approved
Dan Young Chevrolet for a permit , special use for light was approved. It was
clearly legible on the plan submitted. Issue of blue neon light was subject
to that petition.
Mrs. Badger stated that if our attorney feels we do not have the right to
vote against this because a permit has been issued then she request that no
vote be taken at all .
Mr. Byers stated that we can only review lighting in areas where ADLS
approvals are required in certain areas it is not critical because the uses -
are similar. The Plan Commissions real concern should be on lighting where
it abuts or is adjacent to residential area. If we would vote against this,
we would be stuck with a fact situation that we cannot avoid. Mr. Davis
discussed this at the Board of Zoning Appeals meeting and voted on this, we
all make mistakes and we 've had this before us and reviewed it and approved
it. My feeling is to take this into consideration that it has been approved.
Mr. Davis questioned if we should even be voting on this tonight. The
neon light is there and has been approved.
Mr. Albright questioned if petitioner has to state on plans submitted the
specific lights to be approved.
Mr. Kiphart stated Dan Young Chevrolet applied for a building permit for
the addition of structural overhand and for the enclosing of a small area off
the entrance to the building. That itself did not require Plan Commission or
Board of Zoning approval . I reviewed and issued the permit. The permit was
reviewed as a building permit for structural construction not for lighting,
Signage or anything else. The builder built it exactly the way it was
submitted and installed the light which had not been approved. As soon as we
saw the light go up we called the petitioner and stated the building permit
did not include additional lighting. Staff cannot approve nor authorize
something that the required legal agencies have not acted on. The petitioner
then went through the proper channels to come before the two boards on their
own for approval realizing a mistake had been made. there is also a
disclaimer on the building permit that puts the final responsibilities on th
applicant that he is aware of all requirements and that the contract must be
done in compliance with all requests reviewed and approved.
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 20, 1988 PAGE 7 nn
Mrs. Badger requested the motion be withdrawn and thisitem he droppl9 by
Commission.
Mr , I;'af.;►r.]M* moved to withdraw Docket No. 79-88.
Mr. Moore seconded.
4i . Commission to consider Docket No. 83-88 Z a Rezone Application -for
6. 136 acres of land located at the South West corner of US 31
(Meridian Street) and 136th Street , Clay Township , Hamilton
County, IN:> Site is currently zoned R-2 and 8-2. Rezone request
is to zone this site to a 8-2 Zone Classification. No commitments
or covenants have been submitted as a part of the application.
Filed by Mr. E. Davis Coots for Mr. Thomas C. Kleck: , Applicant.
* (TABLED BY PETITIONER FOR NEW PUBLIC HEARING)
Tabled for new public hearing by petitioner.
5i . Commission to consider Docket No. 86•-•88 ADLS an Architectural
Design , Lighting, Landscaping and Signage Plan Application for the
remodeling of Carmel Walk Shopping Center located at 1305-1329
South Range line Road , Carmel . Site is zoned H-8. Petitioner
proposes to upgrade facade of building, amend the sign package,
add landscaping , parking areas and curbs.
Filed by Mark Olnick for Mark Fineberq/Landmark: Investments, Inc.
The Industrial and Commercial Committee Report was read by Mr. Boone
(which is a part of the official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mr. Boone moved to approved Docket No. 86-88 as submitted.
Dr. Long seconded.
Approved 11-0.
6i . Commission to consider Docket No. 87--88 ADLS, an Architectural
Design, Lighting , Landscaping and Signage Plan application for a
new 47,250 square foot (phase one 31 ,250 sq. ft. , phase two 16,000
sq. ft. ) one story office building for Firestone Building Products,
Inc. this building is to be located in the Meridian Technology
Center complex at the intersection of Congressional Blvd. and
117th Street , Carmel , IN. This site is zoned N-6.
Filed by Mr. Kevin Miller for Technology Center Associates Ltd. ,
Mr. Michael Browning , General Partner.
The industrial and Commercial Committee report was read by Mr. Boone
(which is a part of the official minutes and attached to the Master Copy) .
Mr. Boone moved that Docket No. 87-88 be approved as submitted.
Mr. Moore seconded.
Approved 11-0.
7i . Commission to consi der the recommendation of the Subdivision
Committee which request that the Carmel /Clay Plan Commission at
tonights meeting enact a moratorium to not consider future cluster
housing subdivisions for a period of 120 days or until a new
ordinance is enacted dealing with "Cluster Housing/Zero Lot
Line/Small Lot Subdivisions" whichever is less.
Recommended by the Carmel /Clay Plan Commission/Subdivision
Committee.
* (RECEIVED A NON DECISION VOTE AT AUGUST PLAN COMMISSION MEETING)
There was no discussion per legal. advice.
Mrs. Badger questioned if we could request City Counci 1 to oppose
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 20, 1988 PAGE 8
ratorium.
Mr. Dyers stated that the Elan Commission is only an advisory Committee.
Mr. Byers will need to draft a legal notice if it decides to reappeal
this section of the ordinance.
H. NEW DLJS I NESS
lh. Commission to consider Docket No. 95-88 ADLS an Architectural
Design , Lighting, Landscape, Signage and Site plan review for Day
Furs (formally the Carpet Fashions Building) located at 707 South
Range Line Road, Carmel , IN. Site is zoned B-8. Exterior of
building and site development is being upgraded per ordinance
requirements.
Filed by Mr. Ron Wright , Attorney for Mr. Kevin Day, Owner.
Mr. Ron Wright representing Mr. Kevin Day, Owner made presentation, a
copy of which is on file at the Carmel Department of Community Development.
Elevation of building was shown.
A detailed site lighting , landscaping , drainage, plan was passed out to
commission members. Mr. Kiphart made clarification that the lighting fixtures
that were protruding would be removed.
Mr. Wright stated that the protruding light fixtures would be removed and
Lighting Plan would he followed.
Mr. Boone moved to suspend the rules and act on this petition tonight.
Mrs. Badger seconded.
Approved 11-0.
Mr. Boone moved to approve Docket No. 95--88 as presented.
Mrs. Badger seconded.
Approved 11-0.
2h. Commission to consider Docket No. 96--88 ADLS an Architectural
Design, Lighting, Landscaping, Signage and Site plan review for
Carmel Office Ct. (Phase One) a new four (4) building, one story,
22,037 sq. ft. office complex located between Carmel. Drive and
Carmel Medical. Drive directly South of the existing Carmel Putt
Putt facility. Site is zoned B--8 and 5.642 acres in size.
Filed by Mr. Mark Boyce for the C. P. Morgan Co. , Inc.
Mr. Mark Boyce, Director of Land Development and Research for C. P. Morgan
at 13875 Perrin Drive made presentation , a copy which is on file at the
Carmel Department of Community Development.
Mr. Steve Geiser , C. P. Morgan and Mr. ,lack: Southerland and Mr. Richard
Henderson of Schneider Engineering were present.
An aerial photo, site development plan, a building elevation , a landscape
plan , a lighting plan and a signage plan was presented.
This will be sent to the Industrial and Commercial Committee meeting on
October 4, 1988 at 7: .30 P.M. at the City Meeting Hall .
There was no further business brought before the board and the meeting
was adjourned at 11 :38 P.M.
Chairman Secretary ary