HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes PC 07-18-00 11,
Ron Houck asked the petitioner for further information regarding the lighting restriction
commitments and the use of metal panels on the building. These items will be discussed
at the Committee level.
Madeline Fitzgerald asked that the Committee review the alignment of the drive with
Palmer Dodge. Will the western parcel come before the Commission before
development and will anything be done within the parcel that will be dedicated rather
than having it turn into a "weed patch?"
Pat Rice asked for clarification on the type of material of the wrap-around and requested
that this be explored at Committee.
Docket No. 102-00 PP, East 96th Street Auto Park Subdivision,was referred to the
Subdivision Committee for review on August first at 7:00 PM at the John W. Hensel
Government Center, 10701 North College Avenue, Indianapolis 46280.
G 5h. Docket No. 108-00 PP,Primary Plat application for Pulte Homes. The petitioner
‘1,`0,Q0 requests approval to plat 150 lots on 119.6 acres to be known as Long Branch
0 Estates. The site is located on the northwest corner of West 116t Street and
Shelborne Road. The site is zoned S-1/Residence and is being developed as a
Qualifying Subdivision under Chapter 7 of the Subdivision Control Ordinance
(ROSO). The petitioner also seeks approval of the following Subdivision
Waivers:
108-OOa SW SCO 6.3.3 to forego a stub street connection to adjoining
property
108-00b SW SCO 6.3.7 to plat a cul-de-sac greater than 600 feet in length
108-OOc SW SCO 7.7(D)(7)to clear more than 50% of scrub woodlands on site
108-OOd SW SCO 7.7(D)(8)to clear more than 15% of steep slopes on site
Filed by Richard J. Kelly of Paul I. Cripe, Inc. for Pulte Homes.
Tim Oachs, attorney with Ice Miller Donadio & Ryan, One American Square,
Indianapolis, appeared before the Commission on behalf of Pulte Homes. The applicant
is seeking permission to plat 150 lots on 119 acres on property located at the northwest
corner of West 116th Street and Shelborne Road. The current zoning is S-1/Residence and
permitted base density is 1.3 units per acre or 155 lots. Under the Residential Open
Space Ordinance, the applicant is proposing 36% or 43 acres of the site qualify as open
space--the minimum requirement is 33%. Since the applicant exceeds the minimum
requirement under the ROSO, the density is allowed to be increased to 164 lots. The
applicant is proposing to develop 150 lots.
The typical home to be constructed in Long Branch Estates will start at $250,000; it is
anticipated that the median home price will be about $300,000. The applicant has
appeared before the Technical Advisory Committee and other review agencies. The
applicant has agreed with the County Highway Department to provide the necessary
right-of-way to straighten Shelborne Road.
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The existing conservation areas were displayed on the overhead as being steep, slope
areas where the natural grade of the ground is more than 10%. One of the waivers is to
disturb more than 10% of those areas. The large areas just south of the creek on the site
and the area to the north along 121st Street will be left as much as possible in their natural
grade. The reason for the waiver is that the steep slope areas can only be included for
purposes of ROSO if they are left in the open space. If the areas are taken out of the open
space, they do not qualify, even if they are not disturbed. Pulte Homes plans to build
homes with walkout basements and would like to leave the grade as is for purposes of
marketing the homes.
The second waiver is to clear more than 50% of the scrub woodlands on site. When the
site was designed, it became apparent that one of the more desirable features of the site
was the large area of young woodland. Certain areas contained more mature trees and
woodland area and every effort was made to preserve the area so that very little mature
trees would be disturbed. The scrub areas to be removed are at the very corner where the
detention pond is located and the area just south of the creek at the western boundary of
the property.
The third waiver is for the requirement of a stub street to the 40 acre parcel just east of
the site. The 40 acre notch at the corner of 121St and Shelborne Road is viewed as two
distinct parcels; the bottom half is heavily wooded and has a very nice home located on it
with numerous accessory buildings. It is not anticipated that this site will be developed
for anything in the foreseeable future other than its present use. The 20 acres to the north
is distinctly different and located on two major roads, Shelborne and 121St Street. If the
property were to be developed, it would have two access points; therefore, not stubbing
into it would not be detrimental to its development.
The final waiver is for the limitation of cul-de-sac length. The northern cul-de-sac is
requested to be extended 150 feet longer than the 600 feet allowed in the ordinance.
There is a significant grade change in the area, and the only way to reduce the cul-de-sac
length would be to move the entrance on 121st Street to the east. In order to do that, it
would cut into the area that is more naturally rolling.
The applicant has increased the buffer area along the perimeter of the site, along all
perimeter boundaries, from 10 feet to 50 feet. Within the 50 foot area is a landscape
buffer and mounding.
The applicant is willing to dedicate right-of-way at the southeast corner of the site
requested by the County Highway Department in order to straighten Shelborne Road.
The lots have been increased to 90 to 100 feet in width. This was done to provide for
side load garages and also take advantage of some of the rolling topography on site.
The entry on 116th Street will be well landscaped and contain masonry pillars connected
by a metal fence. There is a 10 foot wide path extending along 116th Street; an 8 foot
path extends the length of 121St Street along the length of the project and also along
Shelborne Road.
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Pulte Homes feels that the proposed development can be a well-done, beneficial
Subdivision for the entire community.
Members of the public were invited to speak in favor of the petition; no one appeared.
Members of the public were invited to speak in opposition to the petition; the following
appeared:
Dr. Ron Filo (and wife), residents of the 40 acres abutting the northeast corner of the site,
stated that they are very emotional about the prospect of the development but realize that
development cannot be stopped. There are concerns, however, with the developer's track
record and attitude in dealing with area neighbors. The previous attempt to develop this
property fell short because of the problems with the flood plain and the FEMA
regulations and the economics could not be made to work. Long Branch runs through Dr.
Filo's property for one-quarter mile and is a wetland type of environment. Anything done
to the west and south as it runs toward Michigan Road affects the Filos drastically. There
is already flooding in the spring and with the winter snows when there is rapid downfall
of rain. The ravines to the north are what keep the water in Long Branch; cleaning out
part of it might actually improve drainage in the area. The main concern is that the
drainage will be drastically affected and also the wetlands. Another concern is that
altering the topography will not only affect the drainage but the character of the area.
The third concern is the woods--many trees are over 100 years old. Dr. Filo would like
the area preserved in its natural character to the greatest extent.
Henry Blackwell, 3835 West 116th Street, immediately opposite the proposed
development, stated that he had not been contacted by the developer and only knew of the
proposed development when a notice was received for tonight's public hearing. The area
has been basically rural for a number of years but realistically, Mr. Blackwell knew it
would not stay that way. Mr. Blackwell requests that the petitioner take another look at
the trees--what is being described as scrub woodlands are very nice trees and well worth
preserving. There are a number of animals and birds residing in the woods and the area
neighbors would like to see the woods preserved. Mr. Blackwell requested that a
professional study be made of the woods. Mr. Blackwell also questioned the wisdom of
not stubbing into Shelborne Road. Another major concern is that all of the traffic from
this development is being poured primarily onto 116th Street. Unless there are large
accel/decel lanes proposed, the entrance could be very hazardous. The location of the
entry way is also an issue and should be looked at from a traffic hazard standpoint.
Previously, another developer had considered this property for development and had
planned tasteful fencing or a wall along 116h Street--Mr. Blackwell suggested that the
current Plan Commission consider extending a fence wall as opposed to mounding with
landscaping on top. There are certainly concerns, but the hope is that Pulte will develop a
first class subdivision.
Mark Rattermann, 11257 St. Andrews Lane, requested that the public hearing remain
open. Mr. Rattermann was basically not opposed to the development, but because of no
prior knowledge of the plans, may have comments at a later date.
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Carl Terry, 4150 West 116th Street, immediately to the west of the proposed Long Branch
Estates, stated that the Long Branch Creek runs through his property. Mr. Terry was
concerned with stormwater and overflow from the retention ponds flooding his property.
Adequate drainage of the proposed site; traffic safety; and wildlife in the area are major
issues. Mr. Terry reiterated major concern with traffic, in view of the approximately 285
homes already scheduled for construction by Dura Builders.
Larry Gollmer, 11615 Shelborne Road, (northeast corner of 116th and Shelborne) stated
concern regarding no prior notice or meetings with the developer regarding the proposed
development until he received notice of the public hearing held this evening. Mr.
Gollmer's primary concern is one of traffic, and the timing of straightening of Shelborne
Road. Traffic safety at the intersection of 116th and Shelborne Road is certainly a major
issue, especially at the speed of the motorists and the slope of the roads which create a
"bowl" effect. According to the County Highway, there was to be a drainage ditch
installed; however, there is none at this location and drainage is also a major issue.
Tom Conner, 12000 Shelborne Road, (opposite the Filos), expressed general concern
with the S-1 zoning of the area and the density of the proposed development. Because of
the Open Space Ordinance, instead of 119 homes on 119 acres, there are 150 homes
proposed on 119 acres. The density of the Long Branch Estates development is pretty
significant, even though it follows the "letter of the law." Everyone is concerned about
traffic, everyone is concerned about safety, and everyone is concerned about the loss of
the woods and the wildlife. The subdivision doesn't look too bad when compared with
the development to the west and when compared with the Village of WestClay. Mr.
Conner asked the Commission to continue to look at the density in this particular area.
Michael Prince 3930 West 121st Street, stated that he had received a certified letter
noticing the meeting this evening; however, there was no previous information or
knowledge of the details or plans of the proposed development. Mr. Prince and his
family moved to Carmel from California. Mr. Prince would like to see Pulte design
homes that would preserve the rural character of the area and add to the quality of life
and quality of the community. The proposed development will change the complexion of
the area in terms of density, terrain, landscaping, and drainage, especially when
considering the Shoopman ground to the west that is slated for development. Mr. Prince
also stated concern with traffic on the narrow roads in the area and the speed of the cars.
Tim Oachs, rebuttal. First and foremost, it was not the petitioner's intent to surprise
anyone and he would be happy to meet with any of the surrounding neighbors to resolve
the stated issues. Pulte Homes feels good about the proposed development and believes
it to be well planned.
In regard to the drainage, water cannot be discharged at a greater rate than is discharged
at present. Also, because of the detention ponds, the petitioner controls the release rate of
water even in storm events. The plans are to preserve the property in as natural a state as
possible. One of the waivers for slope requirement is due in part because it will be
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included as a part of the lot under the open space requirement, not because it will be
bulldozed.
In regard to the traffic, the petitioner is working with the County Highway Department in
meeting their requirements. There is a problem with Shelborne and 116th Street--it will
be straightened so that some of the hazards existing at present can be avoided. Currently,
there are discussions with the Highway Department as to when, during construction of
the development, Shelborne can be re-located in that area.
In regard to a fence, the petitioner will be dedicating a 70 foot, one-half right-of-way on
116th Street plus the 50 foot buffer area. There will be a rather large green space that will
include a mound and landscaping. From an aesthetic prospective, this is preferable as to
one long, boring, monotonous fence. However, the petitioner will consider fencing. The
base density is 1.3; this can be increased because of the Open Space bonus calculated
under the Residential Open Space Ordinance.
Steve Engelking reported that the Department is recommending that this item be referred
to the Subdivision Committee for further review at the August first committee meeting.
The Department further recommends keeping the public hearing open.
THE PUBLIC HEARING IS TO REMAIN OPEN ON Docket No. 108-00 PP, Long
Branch Estates.
Ron Houck recommended that a traffic impact study be conducted.
Steve Engelking confirmed that a residential development of 100 lots or more would
require a traffic impact study.
Pat Rice noted that speed of the traffic is a significant problem in Clay Township. In
conversations with the County Highway Engineer regarding lowering the speed limit in
certain areas, the Engineer reported as follows. When a study is done, it is customary to
average the speed vehicles are going and set the speed limit accordingly; this would mean
raising the speed limit. Were the speed limit to be lowered, "It would be to cause
motorists to break the law." The question is: "How can this be addressed in some
meaningful way?"
Pursuant to instructions from Dave Cremeans, the above public comments regarding
traffic at Shelborne, 116th, Towne and Ditch, will be sent to the County Commissioners.
Marilyn Anderson asked if there were any identified wetlands on the property and if there
is a copy of the tree evaluation report available (tree inventory) and if so, please present
to the Committee for review.
Madeline Fitzgerald asked that the Subdivision Committee also review the condition of
the topography, in particular, study the bottom of the ravines, and look at this
development from the aspect of emerging wetlands and siltification studies. Also,
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someone might want to walk the property if at all possible because of the mentioning of
wildlife and protecting warblers. This is a very unique area and needs to be looked at
further. There is also concern with the southern "arm" of the Long Branch Creek that is
being incorporated into the development. Also, it is recommended that members of the
Committee drive to the area of Shelborne and 121 ` Street and look at the intersection.
Bob Modisett asked that the Department provide the Committee or the full Commission
with an update on the "dogleg" section of Shelborne Road (although this is a County
Highway issue) and whatever the plans are for the intersection of Shelborne and 116th
Street. This area is a traffic hazard--cars approach this intersection at a fast rate of speed
and there are cars turning left; there should be roadway improvements in this area. Please
explore what provisions the developer is making for improving the road.
Director Steve Engelking commented that inasmuch as there is not adequate time for a
traffic study to be done prior to the August first Subdivision Committee, the Department
is recommending that this item be forwarded to the Subdivision Committee scheduled for
September 5th. The September Committee date will also allow time for research on the
wetlands issue. Note: The area to be involved in the traffic study should include
everything on Michigan Road, some points west of the development; several points north
and south, as well as the intersection of Shelborne and 116th and Shelborne and 1214.
The traffic study will be reviewed by the Department's traffic, contract study group.
Tim Oachs stated no objection to scheduling this matter for review at the September 5th
Subdivision Committee.
David Cremeans asked that the City Forester review the site and look at the actual
dimensions of trees on the property and report to the Commission.
Tim Oachs responded that the petitioner had been in touch with the City Urban Forester
and had revised the plans on more than two occasions. The current plan has received a
verbal acceptance from the Urban Forester.
Docket No. 108-00 PP, Long Branch Estates,was referred to the Subdivision
Committee that will meet Tuesday, September 5, at 7:00 PM in the Caucus Rooms of
Carmel City Hall.
NOTE: Items 6h, 7h, and 8h were heard together.
6h. Docket No. 110 PP Amend, Primary Plat Amendment application for Kenneth B.
&Donna E. Evans. The petitioner requests approval to amend the boundaries of
Parkside Village Subdivision, Section 2,to exclude Block H. The site is located
at 44 Wilson Drive East. The site is zoned R-4/Residence.
Filed by David Barnes of Weihe Engineering for Kenneth B. & Donna E. Evans
7h. Docket No. 111-00 PP, Amend,Primary Plat Amendment application for
Kenneth B &Donna E. Evans. The petitioner requests approval to amend the
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