HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes COM 03-28-19 •
City of C
Carmel Plan Commission
COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE
Thursday, March 28, 2019 Meeting
Location: Cannel City Hall Caucus Rooms,2"d Floor, 1 Civic Square,Cannel,IN 46032
Members Present: Tom Kegley,Alan Potasnik(Committee Chairman),John Adams,Laura Campbell
Staff Present: Rachel Keesling(Planning Administrator),Nathan Chavez(Recording Secretary),Adrienne Keesling
(Planning Administrator),Mike Hollibaugh(DOCS Director)
Legal Counsel: John Molitor
Time of Meeting: 6:00 PM
The Commercial Committee met to consider the following items:
1. Docket No. 18110008 DP/ADLS: ZP Investments,LLC.
2. Docket No. 18110009 V: The Bridges PUD(Z-550-11)—Sections 4.5,4.6,4.7 and Exhibits 6,7,8—
Architectural Style:Prairie Style required,Modern style requested
The applicant seeks site plan and design approval with a variance for a new, 5 story(93'6"tall)office building
totaling about 120,000 sq.ft. and 5 story(57' tall),approximately 470 space parking garage on 7.51 acres.The
site is located at the southeast corner of Illinois Street and Fidelity Way(south of 116th Street). It is zoned PUD
within the Bridges PUD(Z-550-11)and is not located within any overlay zone. Filed by Brian Tuohy of Doniger
Tuohy&Bailey LLP on behalf of the owner,ZP Investments,LLC.
Petitioners: Brian Tuohy(Doniger,Tuohy,&Bailey),Aaron Hurt(CEC),&Chris Boardman(Ratio Architects)
*Secretaries Note: Please refer to the document titled"Packet for COM 03-28-19 PowerPoint"for the below
slides.
Brian Tuohy:
• Slide 2: The site is on the corner of Illinois St.and Fidelity Way.To the north,south,and east of the site
is office and commercial uses.The nearest residential uses are south of 111th St. and west of Spring Mill
Rd.
• Slide 3: To the west is the Market District,GetGo gas station,and Starbucks.To the north is Heartland
Hall and the IU medical building further north.To the east are the Fidelity office buildings and south of
that is new KAR office.
• Slide 4: The MC/Meridian Corridor zoning district is to the north,east, and south.To the west is the
Bridges Planned Unit Development(PUD). The subject site is a part of the PUD.The unimproved site to
the south of Market District is slated for residential,office,and commercial. In sum the site will be
surrounded by offices and possibly some residential uses.
• Slide 5: Photo from Illinois St. facing due east.
• Slide 6: Rendering of how the proposed building will fit on the 7 acre site,as well as,the KAR facility.
• Slide 7: One question at the March 19th Plan Commission(Commission)was what are the approximate
sizes and uses of the green areas.There is a third of an acre in the green area right up next to our office
and an acre of a preserved green area to the southwest.This area could be developed at some point in
time.
• Slide 8: Another question was,how far away from residential neighbors is the subject site?From the
entrance at Williams Mill we are 1,470 ft.away and from Spring Mill Place the site is 1,700 ft. away.A
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city block is 350-400 ft. long. From Williams Mill the site 3.5-4 blocks and from Spring Mill Place we
are 4+blocks away.
• Slide 9: One of the Williams Mill residents commented that they would be looking at a new building.
This is true, but the proposed building will not be very visible. I took this photo from the entrance of the
subdivision. Our building will be around 80+ft.tall.The Sepro building seen in the photo is around 96-ft.
tall plus another 10 or 12 ft. for mechanical housing structure.My point is there is already a taller
building in existence and the Market District will help screen the view. The undeveloped area,which will
have development at some point, is between Williams Mill and the proposed building.Alan Potasnik:
The Sepro Building is the darker building?Brian Tuohy: Yes.
Chris Boardman:
• Slide 10: There was a request to better understand where the evergreen trees will be. There were
comments for a variety of vegetation for winter interest. The dark green circles are evergreens,pink
circles are ornamental trees,and the remaining trees are other types of deciduous trees.
• Slide 11: This is the south section of the site.There are more evergreen trees planted along Illinois St.
Slide 12: There were some questions about how the courtyard space worked.The main entry to the
building is on the courtyard side.As one moves away from the front door a variety of different kinds of
spaces are present.There is potential for outdoor dining.Natural material is provided on edging of the
green space as a connection to nature and places to sit. Pavers will be used as one moves closer to the
building.The smaller paver accurately represents the color that will be present.
• There is a drop-off area. When one reaches the drive the colored concrete will switch to the pavers.
• There is an opportunity for passive recreation in the open green area. Trees can be planted in this area,
including birch trees.This is important because they echo the buildings architecture, specifically the thin
lightly colored blades.
• Slide 13: Scenes of passive recreation including corn hole,bocce ball,yoga,and outdoor dining.
• Slide 14: There were questions about bicycle parking.There are two short term parking spots close to
each entrance. In the garage is long term bicycle parking. There was a desire to include a bike fix-it
station,which is now included in the garage.
• The next few slides will illustrate why a modern expression for an office building is appropriate for the
kind of users the owners are trying to attract and appropriate for the context of the corridor.
• Slide 15: Many offices surround our site.
• Slides 16-18: All of the corporate headquarters along US 31 and in the immediate area have a lot of glass,
and an expression of mullions with clear glass.
• Slide 19: The building is essentially an all glass building. It is a combination of clear and opaque white
glass where the floors will be. The mullion pattern is an offset mullion gap.An aluminum window frame
will be used to either separate the glass or seamlessly blend them together. There are two types of glass
used on the building.At the floor of each level the opaque glass will be used. The opaque material will
then slowly recede as we move down each floor. This will cut down on glare.The proposed building is a
rhythm of floor,glass,then floor.You can see the gradation in the left-hand image.
• The color of the mullion caps is a light grey.
• Slide 20:Another request from the Commission is to provide a nighttime rendering. As the sun goes
down one is able to see into the building much more. There are white ceilings and suspended lighting.
This will create a nice consistent warm glow and reduce the amount of glare bombs.
• Slide 21: Heights for the building and garage are present
• Slide 22: Air handling equipment will wrap around the entirety of the mechanical equipment.
• Slide 29: View of the building in relation to the existing Market District.
• Both the building and garage have opaque elements. Clear glass during the day is relatively dark.The
garage will be open between each floor. Over the top of the glass and clear glass are fins.
• Slide 31: When the sun hits the aspen trees in Colorado they are extremely white and beyond them
everything is dark.
• Slide 32:A garage in Raleigh,NC takes a similar approach. The fins dance across the elevation.The fins
dematerialize an object.
• Slide 33: This is a view from inside the garage.
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• Slide 34: This is a previous iteration of the garage. The fins space out as one moves south on the garage.
• Slide 35:Option B of the garage includes the fins all spaced between 14 to 18 inches apart.
• Slide 36: In the proposed iteration the playfulness of the fins is reserved for Fidelity Way,which is the
most visible of the elevations.
• Slide 37: The garage looks fairly dark at night,between 1 to 5 foot-candles.There are light poles on top
of the garage in the center bay and are not very visible.
• Chris Boardman then showed an interactive model of the proposed building.
• Laura Campbell-Is the landscaping accurate to what is shown in this model?Chris Boardman-No.
There will be ground plantings at the base of all the buildings.
• Tom Kegley-The garage will be used solely by ZP Investments?Brian Tuohy-Yes sir. Tom Kegley-It
will not be accessed from the east?Chris Boardman-That is correct. Tom Kegley-I know ZP
Investments has an interest in obtaining or currently occupies a building to the east.The reason I ask is
because at the Commission meeting there was a question about the parking ratio to square footage of the
building.Parking was overly abundant to the building size. Chris Boardman-The amount of parking
exceeds the zoning requirement. The zoning requirement is a national average. Brian Tuohy-It is built to
that size to accommodate additional employees.
• The parapet is 42 inches high from deck up to guard rail height.
• John Adams-I do not completely understand the glass samples. I understand the opaque white,but I do
not understand the clear glass.It does not look clear,but instead black. Please explain again how this
works. I understand the gradations are present to soften the look. Chris Boardman-The white opaque
gradient only occupies the first 30 inches from the floor down.
• Laura Campbell-Rachel,are there any buildings around Cannel with the proposed types of glass?
Rachel Keesling-I am not sure. Chris Boardman-There are a few buildings around the Indianapolis
metro region that similar gradients.The IUPUI dental school has an all glass elevation with a partial
vertical thrift. Intech Park uses dots that disperse as one moves down each floor.It is similar to what is
proposed.Brian Tuohy-Intech Park is located at 71st St.and I-465. Chris Boardman-A building in
New York City did something similar,but opposite in terms of color. Rachel Keesling-Laura,I do not
know,but I like it. It does help with the transition.
Department Report: Rachel Keesling
• Some of the biggest items are for the request for the architectural variance away from the prairie style of
the Bridges PUD.The site is no doubt within the PUD,but is across Illinois St.This site is close to US 31
and the Meridian Corridor,where a lot of corporate offices are being built. In the Bridges PUD this area is
marked as the corporate office use block,to permit offices similar to what exists in the corridor.
• The Department of Community Services(Staff)feels the proposed architecture is an acceptable departure
from the PUD standards because of the taller,modern office buildings surrounding the site.The subject
site does not abut any residential buildings or subdivisions.
• Chris already went through some of the buildings that Staff approved recently.There is a trend that
people are moving for more modern architecture. Staff approved the Aloft and Element hotels,Kar,
Pennwood,Goodman Campbell,Delta Faucet,a modern residential building;the Avant,Encore,and the
Liberty Fund building.
• Staff is hopeful that more infill development will occur along the US 31 corridor and that the vast sea of
parking will transform to include additional office buildings,garages,and possible residential units.The
Commission stated this is the third parking garage in close proximity to residential neighborhoods. We
should expect to see more in the Meridian Corridor.It is an appropriate use to densify the area and make
use of the land we have to foster the live work play concept.
• Staff's review process was also brought up. It is acceptable if there are a few outstanding comments from
the Technical Advisory Committee(TAC)or other City departments. Generally,the only way Staff would
not let a project move forward is if there were no site plan,parking counts,landscaping,renderings,etc.I
wanted to clarify that this project is doing everything right and is on track. There is no reason to hold this
project up because a few TAC comments were not addressed prior to this meeting.
• Can you please zoom into the garage options?Could the fin be placed at a 45 angle to help cut into the
view shed of the garage or is there a way to place the fins more artistically so they look like art work?I
did not know the design was intended to emulate a forest of aspens,but to the average person they may
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think the design is a little plain. Chris Boardman-On slide 34 the fins are offset and spaced out more as
one moves further down the garage. On slide 35 the fins are clustered in 3. Each cluster features both
shallow and deep fins.There are changes based on the time of day and the direction one views the garage.
The viewpoint changes the perception of the fins.
• John Adams-Personally,I think the petitioners have done a good job at making the parking garage look
good. Let's face it; it is difficult to have a parking garage look good. It is more desirable than having
three,four,or five time the square footage on a one level parking lot. If a company wants to acquire
talented candidates parking garages are necessary.
Committee Comments:
Alan Potasnik:
• The site is still within the PUD and once again the crux of what we are here tonight to look at is to vary
the design from the PUD.
• What is anticipated in the southern unimproved portion of the PUD?Rachel Keesling-That is the
southeast corner of 111th St.and Springmill Rd. It is the residential portion of the site. It could be taller
apartments,3-stories. Closer to Illinois St.on the same block an office building is anticipated.In the PUD
I believe the definition for"adjacent to"is about 200 ft. If the building is outside of 200 ft. it could be
taller at that location.Alan Potasnik-It could be taller,but we don't know. It will be residential.
• Is there a depiction of what the parking garage and building will look like from the residential areas
currently in place or proposed?Will they be able to see the top level of the garage with vehicles?Chris
Boardman-I could create it,but it would be a lot of work because grading would need to be factored in.
• Rachel showed character imagery from the Bridges PUD of what an office would look like.
• Alan Potasnik-With regards to what will be proposed,we do not know what it will look like?Rachel
Keesling-Correct.
• Sue Westermeier requested at Commission a document showing the Market District architecture
compared to the proposed building.Brian Tuohy-We did provide that. It can be found on slide 29.Alan
Potasnik-It is difficult to compare the two styles based on the image. Chris Boardman-They are not
adjacent and this was the closest we could get the two buildings together.
• You all did a great job depicting the garage and building,but I am surprised that something couldn't have
been done to continue the drive down to show the surrounding area.
• I appreciate the comparison to Aspen trees in Colorado,but I just see a lot of white. Is it possible to
incorporate the building colors that are used throughout the area and within the PUD?Rachel Keesling-
Possibly.Alan Potasnik-Did anyone look at this?Rachel Keesling-I didn't.
Tom Kegley:
• I believe the intent here is to attract a different workplace demographic. Do we know that if they build it
millennials will come?I do not see any construction along the Monon trail that looks like what is
proposed.Rachel Keesling-Architectural design depends on who brings projects forward. Old Town
Design Group brought the Midtown industrial design,sparking the areas design. The Meridian Corridor
has seen a lot of change with many companies brining forward their unique architecture. In the context of
the areas buildings, it is not too great of a departure. Tom Kegley-As I look at the given illustrations of
other developments,the proposed building jumps off the page. I personally like the Liberty Fund
building. We do not have to legislate that everything must conform to a look,but this is going out on a
limb. I think we can do something better.
• Brian Tuohy-This building would be roughly 70%occupied the day it opens. I didn't want to leave the
impression that the building would be built with the hope that a workforce then would come. The hope is
there will be more. Chris Boardman-Corporate buildings aim to accomplish two things;brand
messaging and attracting talent. Tom Kegley-I like the architecture,I just don't know if I like where it is
proposed?
Alan Potasnik:
• Rachel,you brought up the Aloft and Element hotels. I get that. The design,colors,and overall plan was
different.There is just a starkness of white here. If the impetus was to attract a younger talent then
something more can be done with colors. Will employees be coming in and out of this building 24/7?
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Brian Tuohy-I do not know the answer to that question. I do not believe they currently work three
shifts.I will get the answer. Alan Potasnik-Will there be any type of commercial kitchen or dining
establishment?Brian Tuohy—There is food service for the people who work there. I will get more
details. Alan Potasnik-Will there be events coming through this campus, such as weddings?Brian
Tuohy-I will get the answer to that also.
• You said the dumpster will be internal?Brian Tuohy-Yes it is inside the pedestrian walk-way. There is a
garage door into the building. The dumpsters and mail drop will be there.
• You also mentioned that 60-70%occupation at opening?Brian Tuohy—Yes.
• Personally speaking,I'm all in on parking garages. The Geico building is a sea of cars.
• Was pervious materials covered?Chris Boardman-It is not something that is included in the project at
this time.
Laura Campbell:
• I do like the style of the building.The modern architecture is nice,but the white is stark. I was hoping to
see more evergreen trees to help soften the building. I am stuck on the color of the building. During the
winter,when the leaves are dead, it is going to be a different picture.
John Adams:
• I am in the minority then.To me the building color is appealing. I like the glass but what if the horizontal
panels instead of being white were grey?Alan Potasnik-Maybe there is a way to transition this building
between the Kar building and the prairie style architecture.I am not saying change all the architecture,but
is there a way to strike a balance between the PUD intent and the property to the south.
Alan Potasnik:
• Jill,this is a working meeting and no questions may be asked. Is there something that I can help you
with?Jill Mesienheiemer(Carmel Citizens for Responsible Zoning)-At the last meeting Heritage at
Spring Mill(Heritage)was not mentioned as being a neighborhood. Heritage is directly across the street
and much closer to the site than Williams Mill and Spring Mill Place. When you do the line of sight it is
worthwhile to look at Heritage. It was just built and eleven homes currently exist.Additionally,I came
out of William Mill the other day and there was a blinding flash of light from the KAR building because
glass is on both sides of the building. Could this occur with this development?Brian Tuohy-I will obtian
a rendering and a photo from Heritage to the site before the Commission meeting.
• Ron,I am not sure what you have to bring up.Ron Houck-I just have a couple brief comments.Alan
Potasnik-If they are brief. This is not the time for this.Ron Houck- Some of the renderings here we
have never seen. For the parking garage,there are some aesthetic and practical concerns. There is not a lot
of screening to hide the cars inside. The KAR garage does a better job of screening the cars. When it
snows and rains there is little material to protect the interior of the garage. Could there be more panels for
screening?If the site is not used 24/7 can lighting be reduced during certain periods of the day?
• We will continue this to the next Commercial Committee(Committee)meeting and if you could address
all the items the Committee brought up tonight. I would like to see how this building looks in comparison
with the other buildings in the PUD.Brian Tuohy-When is the next Committee meeting?Rachel
Keelsing-This is the April meeting and the next meeting is Thursday May 9th because of the Cannel
primary election.Alan Potasnik-Is the Committee ok with this?John Adams-Do we want to ask the
petitioner to provide renderings with a different color treatment?Alan Potasnik-I would like to see that.
Brian Tuohy-When is the next Commission meeting?Alan Potasnik-April 16`h. Brian Tuohy-If we
came back to the Committee on May 9h... Rachel Keelsing-You would be seen at the May 21s`
Commission. Brian Tuohy-That may be an issue because of the timeline. I am not pressing this,but it
would be helpful to possibly convene the Committee between now and the April 1 e Commission
meeting. I can have most of the answers to the Committee's questions by the next Commission meeting. I
am worried that moving this petition to May will cause issues for the developments timeline.Alan
Potasnik-I am not sure what else we can do. It may be just the way it is.Tom Kegley-We are not ready
to go back to Commission.Rachel Keelsing-It seems that the design is still a concern. Since it is a
variance request perhaps it would be better to see the comparisons and come up with other options for
review.Brian Tuohy-May 9th for Committee and May 21'for Commission?Rachel Keesling-I feel if
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we pressed the Committee to vote it would not be favorable.Brian Tuohy-I learned early in my career
not to press boards to vote if they were reluctant.John Adams-I think that if a vote occurred tonight,out
of the four of us,three members would not want to send this forward with a recommendation. Is that
correct?Commercial Committee-Correct.John Adams-If that is the case the same vote would hold
true with the Commission. Other people, like myself,that like the white would be overruled.Alan
Potasnik-You are right, I feel it would move forward with a negative recommendation.Then who knows
what will happen. Tom Kegley-I applaud the efforts of the petitioners.There are still a few questions on
the table. Brian Tuohy-We will get some additional information and be back on May 9th.
Petition continued to the May 9th Commercial Committee meeting.
3. Docket No. 19020005 Z: South Range Line Cl Rezone.
The applicant seeks to rezone 3 parcels located at 1040, 1112 and 1118 S. Range Line Road from the B3/Business
District within the Range Line Road Overlay District to the C1/City Center District. Filed by the Department of
Community Services on behalf of the Cannel Plan Commission.
Petitioner&Department Report: Adrienne Keeling
• The site is immediately east of City Hall between Veterans Way and Range Line Rd. Much of the zoning
is already C-1/City Center including the City Hall parking lot,Old Town offices,Proscenium,and the
City Hall complex.This is the next logical area given what is occurring in the area. The three subject
properties are vacant or being used as a rental home.
• As I mentioned at the March 19th Commission meeting there is no specific building or site plans for
review. If any project moved forward there would be a Development Plan and ADLS public hearing.
Committee Comments:
John Adams:
• I believe there are three structures being rezoned. Two,I believe,are abandoned.Is the middle building
occupied?Does the City of Cannel own the three parcels?Adrienne Keeling: All the parcels are owned
by the same entity, Stewart& Stewart Attorneys or one of their LLCs. The north and south buildings are
vacant and have been for a while. The middle building is a rental home.
• Is the next step in the process that the City would enter in some kind of discussion to purchase the land?
Adrienne Keeling: By rezoning to the C-1/City Center district,the land is in the realm of the Cannel
Redevelopment Commission(CRC)who then has the authority to create project agreements with
developers or owners at that time. The hope is because of lot size,three lots could be combined together
to make a better site plan and promote connectivity between Range Line Rd.and Veterans Way.Mike
Hollibaugh: The City will not be buying the properties. It will be a private developer that brings the
project through.
Laura motions to send Docket No. 19020005 Z to City Council with Favorable Recommendation,Tom
seconds,motion passes 4-0.
4. Docket No. 19020007 Z: Range Line& City Center Drive C2 Rezone.
The applicant seeks to rezone 7 parcels comprising the block located at the southeast corner of Range Line Road
and City Center Drive from the R2/Residence and B7/Business District within the Range Line Road Overlay
District to the C2/Mixed Use District. Filed by the Department of Community Services on behalf of the Cannel
Plan Commission.
Petitioner&Department Report: Adrienne Keeling
• The site is at the southeast corner of Range Line Rd. and City Center Dr.The site comprises the entire
block and is zoned B-7/Business and R-2/Residential. The CRC owns the northwest corner of the block,
which is the shopping center,as well as, some of the smaller parcels that extend over to Pawnee Dr.There
are two homes along Pawnee Dr.Ace Hardware makes up the rest of the block. The ownership remains
the same.
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• As mentioned at the March 19th Commission meeting there is no proposed project,however,knowing that
the CRC would want to do something with this site, Staff included the entire site to better blend the
neighborhood into future developments.
• C-2/Mixed Use is less intense than C-1/City Center zoning across Range Line Rd. For C-1/City Center
building heights, as they approach residential uses,must be smaller.This is why C-1/City Center was
proposed for this location.Additionally,the 35-ft.height limit in the C-1/City Center zoning district
matches the existing B-7/Business and R-2/Residential zoning at the site.This height limitation is also
consistent with the Range Line Road Overlay.
• The original C-1/City Center and C-2/Mixed-Use zoning occurred in 2000.This has slowly expanded,not
necessarily with projects in mind,but as certain capital improvements occurred Staff takes a measured
approach to rezone certain parcels so that the CRC can take a larger overall view and plan for these areas.
• Some neighbors were concerned that bulldozers would show up the next day. The Proscenium is an
example of a development taking a while to begin construction once the site was rezoned. The Midtown
area first occurred in 2007 and the Midtown area was expanded in 2016.The Main St. and Range Line
Rd.parcel came through in 2005. My point is that these things don't always happen immediately.
Committee Comments:
Alan Potasnik:
• The CRC purchased the corner shopping center. Did they purchase all the residentially zoned properties
as well?Adrienne Keeling:Ace Hardware and the two southern most houses on the block are privately
owned. The remainders of the lots are owned by the CRC.
Tom motions to send Docket No. 19020007 Z to City Council with Favorable Recommendation,Laura
seconds,motion passes 4-0.
Meeting adjourned at 7:29 PM.
/I
Nathan Chavez Recording Secretary Alan Potasni Committee Chairman
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