HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes COM 08-06-19 I7:::......-1-f. ,
Cityoof Carmel
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Carmel Plan Commission
COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE
Tuesday, August 6, 2019 Meeting
Location: Cannel City Hall Caucus Rooms,2"d Floor, 1 Civic Square,Cannel, IN 46032
Members Present: Alan Potasnik(Committee Chairman),John Adams, &Laura Campbell
Members Absent: Joshua Kirsh
Staff Present: Rachel Keesling(Planning Administrator)&Nathan Chavez(Recording Secretary)
Legal Counsel: John Molitor
Time of Meeting: 6:01 PM
The Commercial Committee met to consider the following items:
1. Docket No. 19050012 DP/ADLS: Mayflower Alt,LLC
The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a new office and warehouse building on 5.80 acres. The
building will be 84,240 sq. ft., 37'tall,and will have 91 parking spaces provided. The site is located at about 9800
Mayflower Park Drive(just north of 4400 W.96th St.). The site is zoned I1/Industrial and is not located within
any overlay zone. Filed by Seth Alt of Alt Construction.
Petitioners: Adam DeHart(Keeler-Webb Associates)& Seth Alt(Alt Construction)
Adam DeHart:
• I am going to cover the highlights on questions brought up by the Plan Commission(Commission)
members and cover the blue highlights in the Department of Community Services(Staff)Department
Report.
• Here is a revised site plan(Titled: Site Plan_Revised 08-06-19). I will take you through those changes and
as I go through each of the items I will point out changes made reflecting Commission questions and Staff
comments.
• We have reduced the amount of truck docks by two or three. We have reduced the overhead doors by two.
This had led to more green space on the rear of the site that may potentially lead to additional parking if
needed.
• On the front of the site,the previous site plan didn't exactly merge with the exact location of some of the
man doors. On the north and south ends of the building along the west façade,we have added those door
locations.The doors on the center have stayed in the same location.
• The parking counts,access points,paving,concrete,and utilities are all still the same.
• One item discussed at Commission was the amount of parking spaces and parking space count based on
the amount of employees.The I-1/Industrial zoning district requires one space per employee. This is a
speculative building. While we are in talks with a tenant right now,we don't know exactly how many
employees they actually will have. We are committing to the one space per employee per the zoning
requirement. As a standby standard,Indianapolis uses one space per 1,000 sq. ft. We have an 84,000 sq.
ft.building and we are providing 87 spaces. We feel both through our expertise as a designer and their
expertise as an industrial building general contractor that we are providing the correct amount of parking.
They will use this building primarily for shipping and distribution as opposed to office.
• This is a spec building which will be shelled out. The interiors won't be finished.We will bring
construction documents and obtain a State release.The tenant finish drawings will specify the occupant
load and number of expected employees. We will be paying our sewer bills based on the number of
employees. This is another opportunity for Staff to count the number of employees.
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 1
• There is a change in the rain garden outlet. It now outlets to the south through an existing drainage
easement and through an existing dry detention pond into an existing wet detention pond onto the
adjoining property owner's parcel. We will resubmit these revisions to the Engineering Department
(Engineering).
• There was discussion about the walking path.The previous plan showed a walking path along the edge of
the pavement. The existing pavement is in poor condition. The road is a private drive.As a result the path
would barely fit at the edge of the road. As discussed at the July 16 Commission we would be building a
path that would lead to nowhere.
• The owner is willing to contribute to the City of Cannel(Cannel)Thoroughfare Fund instead of creating
a pathway that is ineffective and abutted next to the edge of the road. The path would bring pedestrians
close to the road with vehicular traffic which is less than ideal. The path has been removed from the
revised site plan.
• We have identified a spandrel panel and believe it fits within the standards. We are willing to commit that
detailed sign plans will come back through for approval. It is our intention to have wall signage in
compliance with the Unified Development Ordinance(UDO)at the location shown in the elevations in
the packet submitted for Commission.
• Bicycle parking has been adjusted.We are providing four spaces near the front door near the middle part
of the building. We will also make provisions for four additional interior bicycle parking spaces because
there is 84,000 sq. ft. of warehouse.
• There was a small change in the Carmel Fire Department(CFD)connection. It was on the north side of
the drive and it is now on the south side of the drive to comply with the CFD request. We have not heard
back from CFD yet. We have extended,on the south side of the site,the water line and fire hydrant to the
east about 50-ft.to a requested location. We will continue working with CFD.
• A last minute workshop with Staff resulted in an extension of the sidewalk along the front parking spaces
south and providing for a crosswalk with the Performance Services property.They are an internet
business and we don't expect much pedestrian traffic,but are planning for the future.This gives us access
to our neighbor, as well as,back over to the street in case the street becomes a public road.
• Rachel Keesling: Landscaping?Adam DeHart: I have not heard from the Urban Forester. If there are
any revisions we would be happy to revise,move things around, or add to them if necessary.
Department Report: Rachel Keesling:
• Staff has worked on all the petitions today to finalize all items.
• Engineering and CFD approval is needed. We can make approval conditioned upon their approval.
• With regards to the employee parking, I am not comfortable with this because the UDO stipulates the
number of employees,which we do not know, determines the number of required parking spaces for this
kind of building.
• With the changes of added landscaping and the 80-ft. of pavement on the east side, if additional parking is
needed the site plan can be can be modified to add parking spaces.
• How many spaces are there, 87 or 91?Alan Potasnik: 91. Adam DeHart: 91.Rachel Keesling: They
should be okay. If you feel comfortable with that then so do I. There is opportunity for parking expansion
if needed. I have not had much experience with speculative buildings with this kind of user,where it is
based on the employees.
• Adam DeHart and I worked on the sidewalk connections to the south today. The existing business to the
south does have a sidewalk that stops at the edge of their parking. This is a good way to connect them out
to the street and provide interconnectivity between the two. This is a UDO requirement as well.
• The Urban Forester stills needs more notes on tree preservation,which I believe is on the east property
line,and making sure the landscape yards were correct. We just need to take this through another round of
our ProjectDox software to finalize things.
• Adam mentioned bringing signage in at a later date for Staff review once we know the specific tenant.
Because the property is on a private street technically they are not allowed any signage,because it is not a
public street frontage. They will need a variance of some kind. It is best to figure out signage at a later
date.
• Staff recommends approval pending approval from Engineering,CFD,and the Urban Forester.
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 2
• Alan Potasnik: I want to touch back on the parking issue before Commercial Committee(Committee)
comments.This is not an office use and is not intended to be an office use?Adam DeHart:No. Alan
Potasnik: At 91 spaces,does that make sense that you will not be close to hitting that count,as far as an
employee count is concerned?Adam Dehart:That is part of the reason we designed the site the way we
have. 60 spaces are in front and we feel like that will cover what is needed.There are almost 30 in the
back where the truck dock space is.These spaces can also be used for maneuvering the trucks if needed.
Alan Potasnik: We are sensitive to parking needs and spaces. My question is because it is not an office
use will there be fewer people involved in this facility than if it were an office use?Adam DeHart:
Correct. Rachel Keesling: I think it will be okay.
Committee Comments:
Laura Campbell:
• I would like clarification on the sidewalk fund.Rachel Keesling: As part of the Thoroughfare Plan there
is an option to contribute financially so that sidewalks or paths may be constructed later.The project
engineer will provide an estimate of design and construction costs for the sidewalk or path. A check for
that amount will then go into the Thoroughfare Fund and be spent on sidewalk improvements. Laura
Campbell: If future sidewalk improvements cost more than current costs who pays for that?Rachel
Keesling: Cannel would then pay for that.The petitioner would contribute the current cost for design and
construction and if in the future if costs rise then it is on Cannel. It is a requirement to comply with the
Thoroughfare Plan. Petitioners have the option to contribute money,build,or request a variance. Staff
usually does not support a variance to not build or pay.
• Laura Campbell: Is there money just sitting in the Thoroughfare Fund that would cover it?How does
that work?Adam DeHart: We have 480 ft. of frontage. I will work with the contractor to estimate how
much it would cost to construct 480 ft. of sidewalk. A dollar figure will then be presented to Staff and
Engineering for review based on current construction practices and cost of materials. Once approved I
will write a check to Cannel. Cannel can then use that money at other locations to better benefit the
community and pedestrians.Rachel Keesling: I don't know how much is in the fund at any given time or
how or where Engineering prioritizes spending. Adam DeHart: Some of the funds will be spent on the
existing 136th St.project near Cannel High School. It is a path fund.Cannel is matching funds with the
State and Federal Government.
John Adams:
• Can you please explain to me the storm water retention?There is a lot of square footage that will collect
water. Please explain where all that water will go.Adam Dehart: The building and truck dock area will
all be conveyed by storm sewer to retention pond on the north side of the site. It will discharge into the
existing storm system out by the road.John Adams: Pardon me; is that an existing retention pond or one
that will be built?Adam Dehart: One we will build.Rachel Keesling: It will be built on the north end of
the site.John Adams: There is enough room?Rachel Keesling: Yes. Adam DeHart: The front parking
lot will go to three different rain gardens which drain south into the master planned area in front of the
Performance Services building.The original plans for the Performance Services included a large area on
our property that drains to the south. We are going to treat that water in the rain gardens and then their
system is sized to carry this.John Adams: That will be in the space just immediately north of the
(Performance Services)building?Rachel Keesling:No that is where the new building will go.
Alan Potasnik:
• Someone mentioned encouraging the neighboring property owners to help maintain the road,because it is
a private road,correct?Adam DeHart: Yes.Alan Potasnik: What is the status that?Looking as far as
infrastructure maintenance. I'm sure if they say no,you are willing to take on full responsibility of the
road maintenance?Adam Dehart: We are still actively pursuing a plan to restore the road with the
owners of the road and other property owners in the park so it is passable. Cannel would like to see the
road dedicated. For our own preservation,we may be working with an immediate neighbor or two to
dedicate the road,by fixing our section of the road. It depends on how many stake holders are willing to
contribute.There is no construction schedule yet.
• Are you willing to make a commitment to have the road maintained?Adam DeHart: I believe there is
already a private road agreement in the recorded instrument specifying how that will be handled.This
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 3
problem is it hasn't been done yet.The City has issues with private roads because an agreement is in
place,but just hasn't happened yet.The City has no teeth to spur maintenance,nor does the City want to
accept the road in its existing condition and get stuck rebuilding it. We want our tenants to be happy and
access the site without incident;we just haven't worked out all the details yet. Alan Potasnik: My
concern is if this is a private road,you are trying to get participation by the neighbors.They haven't
committed yet to make sure someone commits to maintain the road.Rachel Keesling: This is a private
matter.Alan Potasnik: As long as it does not become a City manner.Rachel Keesling: The City will not
accept the road in its current condition.
• In the Department Report under Architectural Design it states"The north and south elevations will have
no windows,but a stair-stepping effect in the height of the building,decreasing as the building moves
east."Can you explain that to me?Rachel Keesling: The building is taller on one end and decreases in
size as it moves east.Alan Potasnik: What does that have to do with windows?Rachel Keesling: There
are no windows, but this is a way to modify the height of the building to provide some architectural
emphasis on the facade.Alan Potasnik:The lack of windows is an architectural element?It has nothing
to do with anything else?Rachel Keesling: Yes. The building is boxed shaped,but they are trying to add
some design elements by varying the height of the roof.
• You are happy with the commitment regarding the sign ordinance?Rachel Keesling: Yes.
John Adams:
• It seems like the real show stopper, if there is one, is the road. It is obviously not useful for semi-trucks.
Would I be safe in saying that users may use 96th St.to access Mayflower Park Dr.?Adam Dehart: That
is the shortest route,yes. We are considering that as well,to repair the road enough to access the site.
John Adams: That was going to be my statement, if you can't get enough owners to contribute to road
repairs,just repair the section between 96th St.and your facility.Adam Dehart: Fortunately we are not
that far from 96th St.John Adams: You obviously wouldn't go ahead with construction of the building
until the road is resolved. Am I correct in saying that?Or are you doing both simultaneously?Adam
Dehart: Pretty much simultaneously in the grand scheme of things,but the building will take longer to
work on than if we rebuild the road.
Alan Potasnik:
• Rachel,you mentioned we do the two separately. Rachel Keesling: They have addressed my concerns
and I would like to readjust my Department Report recommendation.
John motions to approve Docket No. 19050012 with the conditions that the Engineering Dept.,CFD,and
Urban Forestry give final approval,Laura seconds,motion passes 3-0.Absent Kirsh.
Alan Potasnik: Before I introduce the next two items,Rachel,you mentioned we should take the rezone and
Development Plan(DP)/(Architecture,Design, Lighting, landscaping, and Signage)ADLS separately. Should we
just hear the rezone tonight and next month hear the DP/ADLS?Rachel Keesling: The petitioner has addressed
Staffs concerns and I would like to change my recommendation to approving the DP/ADLS tonight. We can hear
both of them tonight.
2. Docket No. 19050026 Z: Rezone S-1 to B-3
3. Docket No. 19050027 DP/ADLS: Take 5 Quick Lube
The applicant seeks rezone, site plan and design approval for a new auto service/oil change facility on 0.66
acres. The building will be approximately 1,500 sq.ft.,about 32'tall,and will have 8 parking spaces provided.
The site is located at 9799 N. Michigan Road. The site is currently zoned S-1/Residential with a proposed change
to the B-3 zone,and is within the US 421 Overlay. Filed by Elliot Smith of Baldwin Capital Partners.
Petitioners: Elliot Smith(Take 5 Indiana)&Andy Morrison(Take 5 Indiana)
Elliot Smith:
• Would you like to go over the rezone first?Alan Potasnik: Let's go over the rezone. Elliot Smith: This
is pretty straight forward. This parcel is the last residentially zoned parcel on Michigan Rd. from the
original plat,when the subdivision was first developed. Staff has sought this rezone for quite some time
now. The request is to rezone the two-thirds acre to B-3/Business(B-3). We are incompliance with the B-
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 4
3 and US 421-Michigan Road Overlay. We received approval for two development standards variances
(19060009-10 V)at the July 22,2019 Board of Zoning Appeals.
• Rachel Keesling: Elliot said it well;this is the last residentially zoned parcel along Michigan Rd. It is
also within the US 421 —Michigan Road Overlay,meaning the development has to abide by stricter
architectural, setbacks,and greenbelt standards. Staff has been hoping that a rezone would occur with this
parcel.The property can be used for commercial uses in the future instead of needing Use Variances,
which are specific to one type of use. Staff is in support of the rezone.
• Rachel Keesling: B-3 is appropriate for this area.To the north is B-3.Elliot Smith: There is a preschool
to the north that is B-3 and a hotel to the south that is B-6/Business.Rachel Keesling: It is in line with its
surroundings.
• Alan Potasnik: Let's move forward with the DP/ADLS.
• Elliot Smith: The proposed development is a drive-thru oil change concept.You stay in your car through
the duration of the oil change. There is no waiting room. Last year the average bay time across the system
was 9 minutes. We are local franchisees in the Indianapolis metro.
• Since last month there have been some changes to the elevations including the signage(see document
titled Elevations (V3) 07-29-19).
• A photometric plan has been provided and we meet the foot-candle requirements.(Titled: Photometric
Plan)
• New signage has also been provided and it meets the requirements.
• The two variances received on July 22°a are for drive-thru vehicle stacking and the minimum gross floor
area.
• The dumpster enclosure needed to match the building and it has been revised. I recently sent this to Staff
and am not sure if it is exactly in compliance, but it is a lot better.Rachel Keesling: It is brick now. It
was fencing previously.
• Staff asked for lot coverage verification. It is 42%, so no issues there.
• The Urban Forester has approved the plans.
• The last two outstanding items are the state requirements for the oil containment and disposal. We first
looked at the Indiana requirements; Indiana administrative code 32913-6-6 mirrors the federal regulation
verbatim. We then looked at the federal requirements.40 Code of Federal Regulation Part 279 discusses
what to do with oil from refiners,transferring,and storage. We are closest to what is considered a transfer
facility,however,we touch and use the oil less than what a true transfer facility would be.In Part 279 a
few items are touched on;a storage unit is required,used oil may not be stored in anything other than
tanks,which we have two of,and above ground tanks must be in good condition and not leaking.Alan
Potasnik: These are above ground storage?Elliot Smith: Yes.There also has to be a secondary
containment.
• One of the items in Part 279 reads,the entire containment system including walls and floors must be
sufficiently impervious to used oil to prevent used oil from getting into the soil and water. Our system and
layout covers this.
• There are nine oil rhino tanks,of new oil,that we store on the side near the bays. The new oil tanks are on
the western side of the building and the used oil tanks are on the east side.A technician guides the
customer into the bay. There is no basement but there is a four-foot hole in the ground.There is a pan that
moves back and forth and we can catch the used oil.After the oil is in the drain pans,it is then pumped
into the oil tanks by a gasoline rated hose that is routed to the storage room. Once those are full then the
used oil and oil filters are reclaimed and refiltered by OSHA(Occupation Safety and Health
Administration)certified oil companies. Laura Campbell: When you say the oil is picked up?Elliot
Smith: It is a hose that is hooked up to the tanks.The big item here is the secondary containment function
to make sure if anything were to happen to the tanks the oil would flow into the bay pits where the
technicians typically change oil. The pits are four-foot deep and fully concrete. The oil would not go
anywhere and would not seep into the ground.
• Rachel Keesling: Is the hose used to pump the oil from the pan into the tank out on the floor?Elliot
Smith: It's under the concrete.Rachel Keesling: So it's protected?Elliot Smith: Yes. Even if there
wasn't a hose and the tanks burst,they are all in the same room and the oil would seep back through the
door and into the pits.
• Rachel Keesling: Are there people that inspect that or do you need to report anything?Elliot Smith: I do
not know.John Adams: Probably not unless there is a spill.Elliot Smith: The company that picks up the
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 5
oil is much more regulated because they drive around with oil in their truck.Andy Morrison: At a higher
volume.
• Elliot Smith: The amount of liquid the pits can hold is more than what is in all the tanks.You wouldn't
know there was a spill unless you walked into the building. Rachel Keesling: Is there a sensor in the
tanks or in the pits?Elliot Smith: There is a sensor on the tank that lets you know how much is in the
tank. If it burst then it's our problem really and not anyone else's.John Adams: There is a low
probability that the tanks will rupture.The biggest problem will be in the pumping mechanism;the hose
springs a leak,but it sounds like everything is well contained. One thing I suggest is notifying CFD that
there will be large quantities of oil.Rachel Keesling: That may be a part of the building inspection.Alan
Potasnik: Is that a part of the Technical Advisory Committee(TAC)?Is CFD apart of that?Rachel
Keesling: CFD is a part of TAC. Once they go through the building permit process they go through the
building inspection process as well.John Adams: If it is not a part of the formal process it's a good idea
to let CFD know.
• Alan Potasnik: My concern was addressed when it dawned on me that everything would be taken care of
inside. If a spill occurred at Rickers then it would be outside.There are wells around this property,but
anything that leaks out of these tanks would be inside and anything that does leak out would have
difficulty filling a tank. Elliot Smith: There are two used oil tanks each 330 gallons.At most 660 gallons.
The plans show three,but we only have two. Each pit is about 1,700 gallons.Three tanks would not even
fill one pit.
• Alan Potasnik: Have you had any environmental concerns at different locations?Elliot Smith: We do
not have any other locations because we are franchisees.
• John Adams: Do the customers drive in over the pit or do your technicians drive it in?Elliot Smith: The
customers drive their car in with our direction. We have pretty tight procedures.No one is in the pit when
a car is pulling in.
• Alan Potasnik: When you take inventory, is it in bulk or individual?Elliot Smith: Bulk.Alan Potasnik:
What is the chance that something might go wrong with the delivery with bulk oil?Elliot Smith: Low.
There is always a chance that something may happen.Alan Potasnik: Nothing is pumped in?It is all
delivered enclosed?Elliot Smith: Yes,big oil rhino tanks. They are thick plastic containers. We do have
some individual specialty oil. It is stacked along the edge of the room and is poured into engines.Alan
Potasnik: It is not delivered by some truck and pumped into the facility?It already comes enclosed?
Andy Morrison: We have tons of different brands, high mileage, synthetics,and blends. Elliot Smith:
They would come to deliver oil and take the used oil tanks.
• John Adams: The incoming inventory is in small containers?Elliot Smith: They are either 80 gallons,
120 gallons,or 220 gallons and are smaller than the used oil tanks.Andy Morrison: We will go through
300 gallons a week.John Adams: What about containment for those barrels?Elliot Smith: It would be a
similar type of containment to the used oil.They are right next to the pits along the walls.John Adams: I
have more concern about a 200 gallon drum being knocked over or run into. Elliot Smith: No car can
touch them. They are enclosed.
• Alan Potasnik: Are there any questions with regards to the rezone or DP/ADLS?
• Laura Campbell: Do we have to address this separately?Rachel Keesling: Yes. The rezone has to be
sent to City Council(Council)and the DP/ADLS can be approved here.
Department Report: Rachel Keesling:
• If I can add two things: I need Engineering signoff but I know the project engineer sent a detailed plan set
to Engineering. Staff would like approval contingent upon Engineering sign off. I now know the lot
coverage and the dumpster design is sufficient. I have no issue with the design of the building.
• A lot of trees are saved on the site.
• Lot coverage is only 42%. It is a fairly small lot.
• Two variances needed are for building size and vehicle stacking were acquired.
• Staff is in support of the project and rezone.
Laura motions to forward Docket No. 19050026 to City Council with Favorable Recommendation,John
seconds,motion passes 3-0.Absent Kirsh.
Laura motions to approve Docket No. 19050027 with the condition that Engineering gives final approval,Alan
seconds,motion passes 3-0.Absent Kirsh.
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 6
4. Docket No. 19050013 DP/ADLS: Napleton Kia of Carmel
The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a new auto dealership on 3.74 acres. The building will be
24,351 sq. ft.,about 28' tall,and will have 201 parking spaces provided. The site is located on 96th Street and east
of Randall Drive(with access from Randall Drive). The site is zoned B3/Business and is not located within any
overlay. Filed by Jim Shinaver and Jon Dobosiewicz of Nelson&Frankenberger on behalf of Napleton of
Carmel Imports, LLC dba Napleton Kia of Carmel.
Petitioners: Jim Shinaver(Nelson&Frankenberger),Katie Napleton(Napleton Auto Group), Suzanne DeYoung
(Napleton Auto Group), Brad Schrage(American StructurePoint),Mike Balay(Balay Architects),Jon
Dobosiewicz(Nelson&Frankenberger),&Matt Pleasant(Nelson&Frankenberger)
Jim Shinaver:
• The matter before you is a DP/ADLS request. We will be developing an auto dealership on the site.
• We will be referring to the July Submitted Packet(Titled: Packet for PC 07-16-19)exhibits,as well as,
the outstanding Department Report comments.
• Tab 2 shows the site location.The property is 3.7 acres in size and is just north of and adjacent to 96th St.
It is east of and adjacent to Randall Dr. An Enterprise Car Rental building was constructed just west of
the site.The property is zoned B-3/Business.An automobile dealership is a permitted use.
• Tab 3 shows the proposed colored site plan.There is no direct access off of 96th St.,only on Randall Dr.
• The dealership will consist of about 24,000 sq. ft.,be about 28-ft. in height,and consist of a modern
architecture building design.
• On the last page of the Department Report there are seven items referenced by Staff in the remaining
comments section.
• Item 1: There is a portion of the site in the flood plain that will need to be elevated.Off-site mitigation
needs to occur.Napleton has located a property at King of Glory Church,just south of 126th St.,with
additional acreage. Another partner in my office is working with King of Glory to purchase property for
Napleton in fee simple.This will allow Brad Schrage to complete an off-site mitigation plan,which will
then be submitted to Engineering for approval. I also spoke to Staff today regarding timing of completion
of off-site mitigation.
• Item 2: Engineering approval is still needed.We have received all TAC comments from Engineering and
Brad Schrage has supplied comments back to Engineering. It is my understanding there are no further
comments except for the off-site mitigation plan(which still needs review).
• Item 3: Staff has requested us to provide a sidewalk connection to allow pedestrians and cyclists to access
the front door of the building from the 96th St.path.
• Jim Shinaver passed around a site plan titled: C201 Site Plan (V3).
• Highlighted in green is the proposed sidewalk connection. Staff suggested finding more of a direct path
with fewer conflicts with the drive aisles. We will continue to work with Staff on the path location and we
are committing to the connection. Because of some of the grade issues in that area some of the sidewalk
will require handrails and ADA(Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990)ramps. We are confident we
will have the final design completed before we return to Commission.
• Item 4: Staff requested additional windows on the north façade.
• Jim Shinaver passed around a document titled:Elevations_Submitted 8-06-19.
• The top elevation is the south elevation facing 96th St.There were no requested changes for the south.The
bottom elevation on page one is the northern elevation.Another window was added so there are now three
windows.Only one additional window can be added because of the precast concrete panels. If there are
too many openings it can affect the structural integrity. On page two there are some changes to the west
elevation windows. Some were too high and have been lowered on the building.Alan Potasnik: The full
glass overhead door on the east elevation provides access to the showroom?Jim Shinaver: That
overhead door is the exit for cars obtaining service. Alan Potasnik: That's a service exit?Jim Shinaver:
Exactly. On a different note;all deliveries will occur on the east side of the property,which is away from
the Randall Dr. side of the building. People seeking service will enter the service bay on the west side
near Randall Dr. because it is a convenient way to access the service bay.
• Item 5: Staff requested additional tree protection along Carmel Creek. Please refer to Tab 3 of the Packet.
Specifically the non-shaded area of the site plan on the east side is the tree protection area. We are
committed to not removing trees in that area. Staff asked if they could revisit that and determine if there
are additional trees within the overall area that can be included in the tree protection. In order for the site
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 7
development to occur along the eastern perimeter of the site a retaining wall will be installed running
north to south. On the south side of the site, if you go west to east there is about 60-ft wide of tree
protection. In the middle there is about 45-ft. of protection.And to the north is 50-ft. of width. We need to
be able to develop the site among proper engineering protocols, install the retaining wall,and provide
adequate room for inventory parking. This does limit our ability to provide further tree protection.
• Brad Schrage has reviewed the plan with the Urban Forester and it is acceptable.Brad Schrage: Yes.
Jim Shinaver: At the same time we tried to acknowledge Staff's request to do more for this area. We are
comfortable if ultimately the Commission, as condition of approval,allows us to move forward and
during the construction phase of the project,we will work with Staff and the Urban Forester to determine
if there are additional feet of width to add to the tree protection area. I don't believe we are able to add an
additional 20-ft.,but we are able to revisit the matter and make a good faith effort.At the end of the day
there is already significant tree protection occurring.
• Item 6: We still need Urban Forester approval. My general understanding is that the Urban Forester
supports the landscape plan revisions.There were only two small issues related to the bufferyard. There
are a south and western bufferyard.Landscape planting material cannot be in drainage or utility
easements.The original plans show plantings within the easements.They will need to be relocated.
Typically this is something that needs to be worked through and finalized with Staff and the Urban
Forester before we go back to the Commission.
• Item 7: The ground sign needs to have a masonry base.
• Jim Shinaver passed around a document titled:Sign Details_Submitted 08-06-19.
• Plan notes are included indicating the base of the ground sign will consist of masonry. There are a few
other sign notes that may have been made previously.On page two spandrel dimensions have been
revised. On page three a delivery sign has been removed.
• In the body of the Department Report are a few other review comments.
• Jim Shinaver passed around a document titled:Lighting Details_Submitted 08-06-19.
• Staff questioned how can the foot-candles drop so significantly in the lighting plan in tab 6 of the packet.
The light fixtures have silicone molded optics for accuracy and reliability. This allows the focus and
reduction of lighting as it starts moving away for the light source. Additionally,the fixtures include an
internal louver which helps reduce light pass and glare. Using this particular type of light fixture,as well
as,the lighting source allows the foot-candle to fall to 0.1 foot-candles within 5-ft. of the pole.The
fixtures are LED chips that are individually shielded. In the past a fixture might have a large glare shield
or shroud hanging from the light. With these new LEDS lights we can be more exact on how the lighting
is cast.Rachel Keesling: On page three is a close up of the louvers. It is kind of exciting.Jim Shinaver:
It is very exact.
• The next review comment in the body of the Department Report is to ensure the demolition plan is
consistent with the landscape plan with regards to the areas called out as tree protection.There was a
slight inconsistency with the plans,but the demolition plan and landscape plan are now consistent with
the tree preservation plan and have been provided to the Urban Forester.
• There was a question about the permeable pavers. Some of the parking lot and drive aisle have permeable
pavers. We will use a hydra-brick.
• Another comment from Commission member Joshua Kirsh made was to ensure the project engineer
closely reviews the FEMA(Federal Emergency Management Agency)maps. This has been done and is
why we are implementing off-site flood mitigation.
• Finally,there were questions confirming no test drives will occur through Williamson Run subdivision to
the north.That is a part of the zoning commitments which can be found behind Tab 9 of the brochure. In
addition we are also open and will accept Commission recommendation to install a sign near the entry
way as people are exiting the site onto Randall Dr.that would say"No test drives through Williamson
Run". It would be less than 3 ft. in height and less than 3 sq. ft. in size. Staff also indicated they may be
comfortable with the sign being a little taller than permitted. Alan Potasnik: I had that exact question
written down to ask you.
Department Report: Rachel Keesling:
• There were quite a few outstanding items that I wanted to take care of.
• It has always been a commitment that there would be no test drives through Williamson Run.Napleton
Kia has been working with their employees on this commitment. It is a great idea to have this sign to
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 8
remind people. With regards to the sign being taller I was thinking of a five-foot sign similar to a No
Parking or Handicapped parking sign.
• It is a requirement of the sign ordinance that any ground sign have a masonry base.The new
specifications show a concrete base now.
• The number of signs they have proposed is more than permitted per the UDO sign standards and they will
have to come back through for variances.
• The Urban Forester has approved the plans and is comfortable with the tree preservation area. I just want
to make sure that all the trees that can be saved are saved.This is Cannel's water source and the more
trees saved is ideal. I would like a condition of approval to return to the construction drawing phase to see
what additional trees can be saved.
• Thank you for adding one more window on the north façade. I am glad it is towards Randall Dr.
• The pedestrian connection from 96th St.to the front door:there is a pedestrian connection to Randall Dr.
which could eventually lead to the 96th St. and I do realize that most people will not walk to buy a new
car,but providing a direct connection to a front door is a requirement of the UDO.I know 96th St. is under
construction and Staff is willing to commit that once construction is complete, let's revisit finding a
location for the connection. What is proposed is a good start. If it needs handrails and a ramp that is ok to
make it ADA compliant.The email I sent today to the petitioners asks if there is a way to provide a more
direct connection if the parking spaces were reoriented. This is a possibility,but there has been no further
discussion. Staff requests this is a condition of approval to get that finalized and figured out,as to where
that path connection occurs.
• Engineering approval is still needed and Staff requests this is a condition of approval.
• I am glad off-site mitigation progress is being made with the King of Glory site. We have learned from
past approvals and we will not be supportive of this project staring construction until mitigation has
begun. The site can be prepared,but mitigation needs to occur before going vertical(on the building).
• I think the lighting plan is pretty cool. I did not believe the foot-candles could drop so quickly. It is nice to
see that there are no giant shields on the outside of the fixture like some places have.
• Staff did recommend that the petition was sent to another Committee,but comments have been addressed.
Staff now gives positive recommendation conditioned on off-site mitigation, Engineering approval,
pedestrian connection to the front door resolved prior to the Commission meeting,and revisiting of the
tree protection along the east perimeter at the construction level phase. Alan Potasnik: Do you want the
sign to be in the conditions as well?Rachel Keesling: The masonry base?Jim Shinaver: The no test
drives sign.Rachel Keesling: Yes. I would like to add that.
Committee Comments:
Laura Campbell:
• At Tom Wood Nissan there are a lot of cars parked on Bauer Dr. E. I want to make sure there is enough
space on the property. I would like to avoid dealership cars parked on the public right-of-way.Jim
Shinaver: I do not believe you can park on Randall Drive. That is an enforcement issue and it is not our
intent to park on a public street.Napleton has designed the site to ensure there is enough space for
employee,customer,and inventory parking. As discussed at the Commission,I believe you are not
allowed to stop a transport truck on Randall Dr. and unload cars. Suzanne DeYoung has spoken
extensively with her staff at her Hyundai dealership and more importantly with their vendors.Rachel
Keesling: We can double check the Cannel code to see if Randall Dr. has an existing"no parking"
ordinance. If it isn't there then it could be brought to Council and signs can be placed along the road.
John Molitor: It is a violation of a Carmel code to obstruct the free flow of traffic. This is a penalty
violation and could be directed to the chief of police who can direct the truck to be towed.
• Unidentified Gentleman: I use to live in Williamson Run. There are not any No Parking signs there,but
can certainly be put there.Jim Shinaver: That is a good point.John Molitor: It is probably not listed as
a No Parking zone.We can check on this.
• Alan Potasnik: Will Staff follow up on this?Rachel Keesling: Yes,absolutely.
John Adams:
• There are a lot of unresolved issues and I do not feel entirely comfortable with sending this to
Commission. What is your confidence level for getting all of this done?Jim Shinaver: High because of
the conditions suggested only one of them relates to site revision;working on a sidewalk connection,
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 9
which can be taken care of once 96h St. construction is done. Off-site mitigation doesn't require anything
further for us to do at this point. Engineering has no outstanding comments. The windows have been
added. We will revisit tree protection at the construction plan phase. The Urban Forester is comfortable
with the tree plan and we are just revisiting additional protection.The ground sign masonry base has been
added.Although it seems like the list is long,only one thing relates to a site revision, which might not be
resolved until after 96t St. construction.Rachel Keesling: You can give me a drawing of the sign for no
test drives sign fairly easily.Jim Shinaver: We will get that to Staff and blow-up that portion of the site
to show the location and plan note with a signage example.Unidentified Gentleman: Concrete base?
Rachel Keesling:No,that would not be required for this type of directional sign.
Alan Potasnik:
• Are there any outstanding concerns you have with regards to offloading inventory?Rachel Keesling: Not
for this site.They have a plan to offload across the street at the former HH Gregg site.
• As far as you're concerned,the issue with Laura Campbell taking to Council a request for No Parking,
that would mitigate?Rachel Keesling: That would be good. I will look it up,but I doubt it is there. As far
as enforcement, somebody needs to be there to know it is happening,whether that is a citizen,Cannel
Police Department,or surrounding business owners. Suzanne DeYoung: My office looks at the drop off
space. That dead-end drive,north of the roundabout, is so far long that the roundabout is not blocked.As
quickly as they are dropped my staff is moving them. My office looks out towards Randall Dr. and I am
able to watch everything. We never have a car parked on the street because it is not safe and it is a public
street. We are working with the transport companies to make sure everything is dropped at the former HH
Gregg site.
John Adams:
• I suggest being more specific at Commission regarding the commitment to preserve trees in the protected
area.That may be a problem for certain members. Please give a few more specifics.Jim Shinaver: I will.
Thank you.
Laura motions to forward Docket No. 19050013 to Plan Commission with Favorable Recommendation with the
conditions that off-site mitigation is addressed,Engineering approval is received,pedestrian connection to the
front door is added,the No Test Drive sign is installed,and additional east side tree protection at the
construction phase is revisited,John seconds,motion passes 3-0.Absent Kirsh.
5. TABLED TO SEPT.3—
6. TABLED TO SEPT. 3—
Meeting adjourned at 7:50 PM.
Nathan Chavez Recording Secretary Alan Po ik Committee Chairman
Commercial Committee Minutes 08-06-19 10