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Carmel Plan Commission
COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE
Tuesday, October 1, 2019 Meeting
Location: Carmel City Hall Caucus Rooms,2nd Floor, 1 Civic Square, Carmel, IN 46032
Members Present: Alan Potasnik(Committee Chairman), Joshua Kirsh, & Laura Campbell
Members Absent: John Adams
Staff Present: Rachel Keesling(Planning Administrator), Mike Hollibaugh(Director), &Nathan Chavez(Recording
Secretary& Sign Administrator)
Legal Counsel: John Molitor
Time of Meeting: 6:00 PM
The Commercial Committee met to consider the following items:
1. TABLED TO NOV. 7—Docker Nro. 119050014 DP/ D S: Avid Hotel
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first floor tenants)on 1.23 acres. The building will-be 50,286 sq. ft., 4 stories/155' tall, and will have 97+parking
icz of Nelson& Frankenbe
Saamrajya, LLC.
3. Docket No. 19060019 DP/ADLS: Franciscan Orthopedic Center of Excellence.
The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a 4 story, 236,231 sq. ft. Orthopedic hospital, surgery
center, medical office building, and 664 space parking garage on 10.8 acres. The site is located at approximately
10800 Illinois Street. The site is zoned MC/Meridian Corridor. Filed by Marty Rosenberg of Methodist Sports.
Petitioners: Marty Rosenberg(Meridian Development), Robert Hicks(Hall Render), Bob Harmeyer(MSKTD),
Jennifer Lasch (Cripe), &Alyssa Prazeau(Context)
Bob Harmeyer:
• In the Submitted Packet(page 3)contains the outstanding issues from the Department Report,
remonstrators, and Plan Commission (Commission). They are Unified Development(UDO) Standards
which were not met, garage bicycle parking, site lighting, number of parking spaces, headlines coming
out of the garage and site, garage lighting, image, look, &feel of the garage, generator testing, and
outdoor rehab fields noise.
• There are separate tabs addressing each concern and how we have or plan on addressing them. Would you
like me to go through each item?Alan Potasnik: Yes.
• UDO standards not met(page 4): There are a few items. The accessory structure height and two primary
buildings on the site. We did not meet the zoning requirements for the site. Variances were submitted to
the Board of Zoning Appeals(BZA)and both were approved September 23rd,2019. We are now in
compliance with those requirements.
• Non-compliant signage: In the original proposal, signage was not complaint with the standards. We have
revised the submission to remove signage that was not complaint and replace with complaint signage.
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 1
Final signage has not yet been submitted because we do not know the final tenants and their branding. We
will ensure compliance during the sign permit process.
• Landscaping has not yet been approved as of the previous submission.We should have all the
landscaping plans addressed.Rachel Keesling: Let's jump to that right now.Alyssa Prazeau: I met with
the Urban Forester today to go over some landscaping. We were using the existing trees in the drainage
easement to meet the buffer requirements for the subject property and residential properties. Because the
landscaping was within the drainage easement we could not count that.Today we added plant material to
the north buffer adjacent to residential properties to increase the shade and evergreen tree counts.At 4:30
pm the Urban Forester gave his approval.Rachel Keesling: At 4:35 pm I confirmed the approval. The
Urban Forester will provide an approved landscape plan.Alan Potasnik: Does anybody have any
graphics that reflects this?I would like to see this.
• Site lighting exceeded the minimum foot-candles at the property lines. That was confusion on our part
and the lighting plan was corrected and submitted in the Packet(page 36).
• Bicycle parking(page 5): We were meeting all the UDO requirements by providing racks at the front
door of the building.In addition we included indoor bicycle parking in the parking garage within a secure
room.Pages 12-13 indicates the bicycle racks and types which will be made available.A multi-use path
runs along Illinois St. and a sidewalk connects it to the garage. It is also our intent to have service people
come out once a week to provide bike service for employees. There is a work bench provided.Marty
Rosenberg: It is a lockable secure facility as well.
• Number of parking spaces(page 6): There was concern regarding the number of parking spaces. They
exceeded the minimum number. We calculated how many parking spots are needed based on employees
and patients on a daily basis.There is nothing in the UDO that hinders us from building more.
• Automobile lighting coming out of site(page 6): Concern was raised over headlights shining out of the
site,as we have three exits along Illinois St. We worked through a few options with the Urban Forester
(page 10).The southernmost and middle exit will have additional landscaping installed on the residential
side of Illinois St. between the multi-use path and the 6-ft.to 8-ft. fence that runs along the property line.
Those would be evergreen trees to provide coverage year round.At the north entrance there is a "
raingarden with cattails and other water vegetation. We are unable to install typical landscaping on the
west side of Illinois St,but plan on installing evergreens in the median to provide the buffer.
• Garage lighting(page 6-7): Concern was raised regarding spillage of the garage lighting onto Illinois St.
and into the neighboring subdivision(Spring Mill Place). We have introduced 4 mitigation techniques:
light pole heights, light fixture selection,lighting controls, and garage screening.
o We have chosen lower light poles on the residential west side.At the line of sight one is less
likely to see those poles.
o LED lights have changed in the style and fixture types.Previously those LED elements were
flush with the bottom of the fixture providing a hot spot.The lighting itself provides a cut off and
there is no spillage. With the new fixtures the hot spot is recessed into the fixture head. Marty
Rosenberg: That is page 30-36.
o It was suggested that we provide motion sensors for the lights.There is a description of how the
lighting will be controlled,enabled and disabled via photocell.As you drive in the lights will turn
on and stay on for a short period and as motion stops the lights will turn off.There will be some
low level lighting for security purposes.
o We have discussed garage screening(page 7)a few times. We have selected materials that are
either solid or with the smallest perforations possible. The metal panel materials have the smallest
perforation and the least amount of light will bleed through. The perforation is needed,however,
for ventilation purposes. Our screening extends seven feet above the deck of the top level.No
vehicles will be seen.
• On page 15 of the Submitted Packet is the middle entrance. We have removed the proposed landscaping
in the rendering, so you can see the architecture of the building.The metal panels are mixed with the
perforated panels. The next page shows vegetation about 10 years after initial planting.You can see very
little of the top of the garage.All the plantings will be initially 6-ft.—8-ft.
• Image of the garage(page 7). There was a suggestion regarding vine materials used to screen the
materials. In our research and discussions with the Urban Forester,we found that there are very few
vining specifies that can be used in this climate.Additionally,none provide year round coverage.The one
vine species the Urban Forester recommended was a Virginia Creeper,a woody deciduous vine. Page 8 of
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 2
the Submitted Packet illustrates examples.They are invasive vines.The concern was only a few months
of green coverage will be present and during the winter months a woody vine will be present.This is not a
preferable look. We are not moving forward with the living wall at this point.Typical landscaping will be
used to screen the building.
• Generator testing(page 9): There was a question regarding when the backup generator would run through
the test cycles.As a hospital facility,generators are required to have tests run once a month. Typically
this occurs in the overnight hours between 3:00 am and 4:00 am. This provides the least amount of
disturbance to patients within the facility,but also to adjacent areas.The sound decimal levels does not
exceed 68 decibels at 33-ft.from the unit. As a comparison,this equals a 44 decibel level at the nearest
home.For reference,traffic at 45 MPH along Illinois St.have a decibel level between 60 and 70. We feel
the sound produced by the generator will not be a concern.
• Finally concern was raised over the outdoor rehabilitation fields(page 9)with noise and light generation.
Those fields are meant for collegiate and high school athletes rehabilitating from injuries to get ready for
their specific sports and perform post-injury.Those fields will not be used by teams and no games or
practices will occur on them.They are meant for evaluation of those players.Typical hours of operations
are 7:00 am to 7:00 pm.Lighting will be turned off before and after those hours.
Department Report: Rachel Keesling:
• The petitioner did a nice job of laying out all the information.They worked on many things since the last
Commercial Committee(Committee)meeting on September 3`d.The lighting plan has been updated and
is in compliance.The petitioner agreed to minimize the lighting on the garage by having sensors. Signage
has been updated and they will need to come back later for variances depending on the type of signage
their tenants want or need. Bicycle parking for the garage is detailed and approved,as far as access,with a
protected lane.The additional trees and landscaping to be installed on the west side of Illinois St.will
help protect neighbors from headlights.The shrubbery and grasses are added to the median because
plantings cannot be added west of Illinois St. across from the north entrance.
• Additional views of the garage from Illinois St.were provided.The previous submittals provided focused
on the building and the garage sits forward of the building. Bob Harmeyer: In the Submitted Packet are
views from the backyards facing the proposed development(pages 26-29). They are taken from where the
existing houses are.Marty Rosenberg: We did discuss planting those earlier to provide additional
landscaping during construction and growth during construction.Bob Harmeyer: Typically landscaping
is installed at the end of the project,but those trees will be installed at the very beginning.Jennifer
Lasch: We are coordinating installation of landscaping with John Duffy(Utilities Director)because a
water main will be installed under multi-use path along the west side of Illinois St.
• The other outstanding item is the tree preservation and tree protection fencing. In the overlaying of the
drainage easement,trees within it couldn't count towards the buffer requirements.A 30-ft. drainage
easement and 5-ft. buffer was needed.Alyssa Prazeau: A drainage easement exists on the northeast
portion of the property. A lot of the plant material is trees and underbrush. We are not touching most of it.
When we originally calculated the area,we counted that vegetation towards the buffer requirement.The
Urban Forester informed us this cannot be included,because the vegetation may be removed at any time
so the easement is clear. We have added significant number of trees for a total of 45 shade and evergreen
trees, 16 ornamental trees,and 113 shrubs.The Urban Forrester counts anything between the building and
property line as landscaping buffering. There are several utility lines and underground detention where
trees are not planted. Marty Rosenberg: The drainage easement backs up to the Meridian Suburban
subdivision. We started the rezoning process for that community. We have successfully aggregated 30 of
the 31 homes and they will reside in these homes for up to a year, free of cost,until July 2020.Rachel
Keesling: Because the Meridian Suburban subdivision is still a residential use the petitioner will need to
maintain the landscape standards as a commercial use adjacent to residential uses.Alyssa Prazeau: There
are three trees that will remain. One is a 36"maple, a 30"maple,and a large evergreen tree.We kept
what we could,where it did not conflict with utilities or other site improvements.
• At the last Committee meeting we discussed the design of the building and garage.We did not provide
them with any additional comments for them to better their architecture. We spoke about the screening of
the garage.There is screening pass the top deck,which should screen all the vehicles and lighting.
• With the removal of the vining,the only option we can think of is to provide artwork at the top of the
garage,while the plant material matures.This may pretty it up a bit.I only introduced this to the
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 3
petitioners today and we will need to work through the idea.This would not be additional signage,but
artwork to beautify the garage.Bob Harmeyer: We discussed this briefly and we could use a banner type
material with artwork of a natural look and feel. Rachel Keesling: This could be switched out over time
and wouldn't have to be very expensive.
• The Department of Community Series(Staff)recommends this go back to Commission with favorable
recommendation.
Committee Comments:
Laura Campbell:
• I am happy you scrapped the vining. I didn't think,other than a couple of months, it would look very
attractive.
• On Illinois St.,the plantings look sufficient to block the headlights. What will the process be to increase
the landscaping and block the lights, if the proposed landscaping is not sufficient?Rachel Keesling: We
would need to come together through a commitment with the petitioner that they might try something
else. Marty Rosenberg: I think we are committed to being good neighbors. If there are practical things to
do that aren't going to impede vision clearance,which has been a concern with these additional plantings.
We have gone through significant lengths to mitigate light penetration. We will certainly consider
additional means if this is not sufficient.Time also changes as well.We just need a reasonable period to
allow the trees to mature. If we plant too much at once the trees are overcrowded when they do mature.
Alyssa Prazeau: We selected two of the largest and hardiest evergreen trees available in the region. We
want to make sure the trees don't overcrowd each other and shade the other trees out.Joshua Kirsh:
Laura,the middle entrance is where we needed the most landscaping. I always hound the Urban Forester
to add more trees and he responds with"We can but do you want them to be successful?"Laura
Campbell: Alyssa made a great point.Bob Harmeyer: I would like to reiterate that this is an orthopedic
specialty hospital and although there are 24/7 patients in the facility,95%of the traffic occurs between
7:00 am and 7:00 pm. There are only 23 overnight beds. There is no emergency department.It is
essentially a medical office building.
Joshua Kirsh:
• Is there a commitment to add construction fencing around the three major trees you have identified?
Alyssa Prazeau: Yes.This is called out in the tree protection plan and follows the UDO standards.
Joshua Kirsh: I just want to make sure there are commitments and will actually occur.Alyssa Prazeau:
Because these are three key trees we added dimensions on how far we would like the fence to extend
from the property line,how much protection there is,and making sure it is put to the fullest extent.
Rachel Keesling: The Urban Forester will check on that.
• The last time I was in New York or Chicago I noticed the green construction screening was a product
with images of vines on them. When you looked at the fence it looked like actual vines. If we are looking
for an alternative that is less expensive,this is an option.Rachel Keesling: For the garage?Joshua
Kirsh: Yes,for the top section while the landscaping matures.
Alan Potasnik:
• For the median and residential landscaping maintenance on Illinois St.,whose responsibility will that be?
Alyssa Prazeau: A note was included on the plan reading,"Franciscan will be responsible for the
installation,three months' worth of maintenance,and a one year warranty."which is what is on the entire
site.After that the trees are then transferred to Cannel. Alan Potasnik: That nails it down.
• Can you look at the lighting aspect of the parking garage?The fixture will have a domed cover on the
fixture,correct?The closest pole to the residential properties will be shorter?Marty Rosenberg&Bob
Harmeyer: Correct.Alan Potasnik: You believe this will eliminate any light pollution into the
residential area?Marty Rosenberg: Additionally,the screening material on the garage will extend 4-ft.
above the concrete wall for a total of 7-ft.The 4-ft. of additional screening plus a shorter fixture will cut
most of that light pollution.Bob Harmeyer: On page 11 of the Submitted Packet is a section view of the
garage with the lighting. The grey is the concrete structure.The light fixture is as low as we could make
it.We originally thought of reducing the height further,but if a van or larger vehicle is parked nearby
then it will block all the light.The next light fixture is reduced and even if you are able to view it from
outside the garage,the recessed fixture will shield the viewer from the hot spot.
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 4
• These lights,as you pointed out,will be motion activated?Bob Harmeyer: Correct.Alan Potasnik:
Time of day or weather conditions won't have any effect on them coming on?Bob Harmeyer: Hopefully
not.Marty Rosenberg: They will be on all levels too.
• The rehabilitation fields will be used for the hospital patients only and won't be used for any kind of
Cannel school activity?Bob Harmeyer:No sports.No games.No tournaments.Marty Rosenberg:
They aren't even full fields,only partial fields to allow patients to go through natural motions for their
specific sport.Jennifer Lasch: There was only enough space to allow for 40 yards with some run-off
space to avoid running into things.
• As far as disrupting any of the residents due to construction traffic,do we need the street cleaned at the
end of the day?Marty Rosenberg: Some of the traffic will enter through the Meridian Suburban
subdivision because there is an entry onto the property from there. I don't know if we have a specific plan
for where construction vehicles will be.Jennifer Lasch: There are two construction entrances; one at the
south and north entrance.Normally there is only one,but the easement bisecting the property forces two,
so there isn't a lot of cross traffic over the easement. In the SWPP plan(storm water pollution prevention
plan)is the inclusion of mitigating dirt and debris into the right-of-way.Alan Potasnik: As long as you
plan on addressing that.Bob Harmeyer: Once the residences are taken over then the plan is to bring
construction in through that entrance.Alan Potasnik: While they are there it really needs to be addressed.
Bob Harmeyer: That is addressed in the SWPP plan.Jennifer Lasch: It is one of those things that are
taken care of by the construction team.
Ron Houck(Cannel Citizen): On the lighting plan for the top floor, is there a different fixture on the residential
side of the garage?The light shows only going into the garage.Bob Harmeyer:Yes there is.Ron Houck: If it is,
that's fine.Bob Harmeyer: There is a cutoff shield on the back of it.This type of fixture sends the light one
direction.Ron Houck: For the photocell sensors,once the lights are active,what turns them off?Marty
Rosenberg:they are timed out.Bob Harmeyer: There is a timer.They are tripped on and are on for a set amount
of minutes and then turn off.
Jill Meisenheimer(Cannel Citizens for Responsible Zoning): I sent an email to the petitioners for the living wall
window boxes. Marty Rosenberg: We have looked at window boxes in the past.It is not a practical design for
the scale of this structure.The maintenance and ability to bring water to them is erroneous.
Joshua motions to forward Docket No. 19060019 to Plan Commission with positive recommendation, Laura
seconds,motion passes 3-0,absent Adams.
4. Docket No. 19060018 DP: Carmel Hotel and Office.
The applicant seeks site plan approval for two building pads and associated parking on 2.96 acres. The site is
located at 12166 N.Meridian Street. The site is zoned MC/Meridian Corridor. Filed by Brad Schrage of
American Structurepoint on behalf of Michael Garvey of Diversified Land Acquisitions,LLC.
Petitioners: Brad Schrage(American StructurePoint),Michael Garvey(Lauth),&Ryan Kates(Lauth)
Brad Schrage:
• Brad passed around a packet(titled Site Plan Old and New).
• The first page is a revised site plan.The main change is the additional sidewalk extending to the building.
• Staff asked today to realign the sidewalk so it is straight.Before it was angled more.This was done late
this afternoon.
• After the September 17th Commission the main concerns were parking and trees.Page 3 contains a
parking analysis comparing hotel demand,with peak hotel demand,and office building demand. Between
our parking lot and the Ritz Charles,in which there is a shard parking agreement,there are 297 parking
spaces between the two parcels.The hotel will require 127 spaces and five per thousand on a 48,000 sq.
ft. building puts us at 240 at the office with a total of 367.If all the users are present at the same time,
there is a 70 space discrepancy,but hotel users are heavier at night while office users are heavier during
the day. The analysis compares different times a day from overnight to 11:00 pm. With the 297 that is
provided,worse case, is we have a surplus of 49 spaces with the overlapping users.
• Page 5 of the packet shows the rear portion of the Ritz Charles parking lot.This is not necessarily needed
due to the combined parking and overlapping times. Even if we were using the maximum amount of
parking spaces at the 231 we would still have those additional spaces.
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 5
• There was a question about what the parking lot will look like during the middle of the day. Page six
shows the existing parking lot north of the medical office. There are some open spaces out there. The next
page is the Ritz Charles facing north. The area in front of the Ritz Charles is lightly parked. The area
where the shared parking agreement is a little fuller. Michael Garvey: There are two short term
agreements with Ritz Charles. They are 90-days each for construction teams. This is null in the next 60
days. That is why so many cars are present now.
• Quite a few of the trees have died.There are not many big species out there.
• Rachel Keesling: On the screen is the site plan that was passed out.
• We have applied for variances(19090015-17 V)for the reduced north side yard setback, lot width
coverage,and no parking lot setbacks along the future line between buildings.Alan Potasnik: So you are
saying those three variances were not in consideration during the Commission meeting?Brad Schrage:
Two of them were.The north side setback reduction and lot width coverage were both considered when
we had those plans. The third one,as we were looking to subdivide,came up that we will need the
variance in the future.This is a preemptive variance. Those items will be heard at the October 28th,2019
Board of Zoning Appeals.Michael Garvey: Staffs aware of that?Rachel Keesling: Yes.
Department Report: Rachel Keesling:
• One Staff comment was the missing pedestrian connection. This has been provided in the new site plan.
Additional landscape islands existed and I worked with the Urban Forester to combine those islands to
better sustain the trees but also provide a protected crosswalk.
• They are also proposing to extend the sidewalk onto the Ritz Charles portion so that there is sidewalk
connection all the way through,which would help with the shared parking and bringing people over to
these uses.That was a last minute adjustment today,but it is for the better.
• We also spoke about the loss of trees and to provide a plan for saving trees if the variance is approved for
the north setback.As one heads south from the north property line to the 20-ft. line,there are seven trees
that will remain based on the 5-ft.planting strip.About 19 trees could potentially remain if they were to
keep their whole 20-ft. setback,which is required.There are 11 additional trees on the border that
probably wouldn't make it if the request were approved.About 20 additional trees would be saved on the
north property line. Because of the cross parking access agreements, Staff would like to see the 20-ft.
requirement adhered to and not have parking in the drive aisle.They could still have a drive aisle and an
entrance in the future if the buildings were subdivided. The downside of adhering to the UDO is the loss
of 24 parking spaces because of a 20-ft.parking setback on the north side.
• The petitioner would enter into an agreement, and provide us with a written copy,with the Ritz Charles
for shared parking, similar to the agreement between the Hyatt Place and Ritz Charles.The Hyatt Place
was short eight parking spaces. In the granted access easement at the southernmost entrance from Illinois
St.about 14 parking spaces were made available. Because only a few parking spaces were made available
to the Hyatt Place,the Ritz Charles will not over extend its parking with another shared parking
agreement.
• The Ritz has stated in the past that they have about 500 parking spaces on their property. Only once or
twice a year have they reached 800 quests for an event. They have a maximum of 50 employees who
work on Saturdays.They average 266 guests per day. They feel with the hotels to the south and north that
the shared parking would be beneficial and the shared uses have different peak hours.Joshua Kirsh: It is
reasonable to believe that.Rachel Keesling: They would have to provide the agreement to Staff.Michael
Garvey: There is a memorandum of understanding executed and they have a draft of a formal agreement.
I brought a document(titled Parking Graphic)illustrating the proposed parking and access easements.
The orange area is only an access easement. Blue is both and access and parking easement.Joshua
Kirsh: Will you have to put signage on the Ritz Charles property saying"No Hotel Quest Parking"?
Michael Garvey: I don't know. We have the full document submitted to the Ritz Charles attorney. Even
if the hotel is full on the weekend, it will use 127-130 spots tops. Other than the three lunches a year at the
Ritz Charles,they will also be able to use spaces on our lot. It is a win for the Ritz Charles,as well on
weekends.
• Staff also wanted to explain why no parking is present on the frontage road.The City Engineer did not
want that.The Thoroughfare Plan does call for this road to be a 90-ft.wide frontage. It is now at 50-ft.
There are no plans to continue the road south. Staff tried to connect the road south to the IU Heath
parking lot,but this never came to fruition. We were in support of keeping the right-of-way at 50-ft. for
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 6
the Hyatt Place.The right-of-way is already existing in front of this site and in front of the Ritz Charles, it
was just at the Hyatt Place that they didn't have any right-of-way.Joshua Kirsh: Which City Engineer?
Rachel Keesling:Jeremey Kashman. The petitioner did have a plan showing parking in the front,but this
was removed because of the shared parking easement.Laura Campbell: Does that mean there will be
"No Parking Signs"?Alan Potasnik: Unless there is an ordinance passed.Rachel Keesling:No.I don't
think this will be a problem,once this is redeveloped.Laura Campbell: I just know people will look for
the fastest way to get somewhere.Alan Potasnik: During those lunches,those spaces are prime.Joshua
Kirsh: I think people do park on the frontage road.Rachel Keesling: But a few times a year,with a road
that dead ends,we may be ok.
Committee Comments:
Joshua Kirsh:
• I like the graphic(Parking Graphic)provided to help the Committee understand the shared parking
agreement.This does not address the nature of how to get to hotels is changing,but gives me the peace of
mind that we are not under parked. Speaking of parking,what is the nature of the trees that we are trying
to save on the north buffer,to buffer what,one office building to another office building?A comment we
heard was to provide a buffer to the west.That doesn't appear to be an option.Are we asking them to
save end-of-life trees?I would rather see the petitioner eke out a few more parking spaces and add a
commitment to plant a dozen new trees between the two buildings. Alan Potasnik: That is a good point.
Joshua Kirsh: If it is an option to increase the median,to any degree,to eke out trees in the median
between the existing parking and new parking,to try and address the lack thereof of buffering,that seems
like a reasonable thing to explore.Alan Potasnik: This is an issue for the BZA.Our ordinance states that
they need a 20-ft.buffer,which they are not providing.You mentioned that with the Ritz Charles parking,
you would have enough spaces even if the parking spaces within the required buffer were removed?Brad
Schrage: The subject spaces are required by one of the potential users for the medical office building.
They are pushing to have as much parking as possible because there are concerns of how parking will
actually look like once built.Alan Potasnik: It sounds like you are saying it is not a hardship and that my
client just wants it.Brad Schrage: I would say it's not a hardship,but a desire to reach certain density
and maintain the most amount of parking possible.
• Rachel Keesling: I think Joshua brought up a good point about additional buffering for the homeowners
to the west. Originally nothing was there, it has been expanded,and now there is green space present.One
of my initial review comments was to add more landscaping on the back edge of the lot. We did increase
it to save some of the trees and provide a bit of a buffer between the two lots. We did a little bit.Joshua
Kirsh: Some of those trees are being saved,I'm just not seeing them?Brad Schrage: Correct.Rachel
Keesling: There was not an opportunity,with the site layout,to extend the island further to the east.They
would lose more parking spaces if they went further to the east, saving more trees there,than if they did it
on the north end. I understand that it is office building to office building which is why they are requesting
the variance,but it is in the UDO that the side yard has that setback. It just happens that this area is full of
mature trees,which is why we do want to preserve some trees.This is why there is a variance process.
Alan Potasnik: If you don't get this at the BZA then you have to deal with the UDO. Brad Schrage:
Correct. Everything north of the transformers will still be there.
• Why work hard to save trees that are end-of-life,but aren't worth saving,when we could can plant new
trees that will look nice in a few years.Michael Garvey: Looking at the nature of the configuration,we
cannot expand to the west and create more green space,because a whole row of parking is gone. Laura
Campbell: I think the Ritz Charles did lose trees during a summer storm in that back parking area.
Alan Potasnik:
• What would you suggest we do here?Rachel Keesling: Staff's recommendation was to send the petition
back to Commission with a favorable recommendation pending the outcome of the proposed variances.
Alan Potasnik: If the variances are denied,will they come back here?Rachel Keesling: It could come
back or it could be handled administratively with an ADLS Amendment to the site plan. They will be
back for each of the buildings through the ADLS Amendment process.The site plans can be addressed
then. We will see both of these proposed buildings again.Michael Garvey: The use is medical office.To
have parking in close proximity to the building is critical to the users.They want certain spots to be used
for handicap parking.
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 7
• Joshua Kirsh: The street lawn,between the path and the curb, looks like a prime place for a buffer.Mike
Hollibaugh: I think there is a reason there is not vegetation there today. With the Hyatt Place the Urban
Forester tried to supplement plantings. We can ask the Urban Forester to look at that and work with the
petitioner on some additional median plantings.
Laura motions to forward Docket No. 19060018 to Plan Commission with positive recommendation,Joshua
seconds,3-0,absent Adams.
5. Docket No. 19070003 DP/ADLS: Valvoline Instant Oil Change—US 421
The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a new 2,077 sq. ft. oil change facility and 2 variances.The
site is 0.98 acres in size. It is located at 9835 Michigan Road and is Lot 1A of the North Augusta subdivision. It is
zoned B-3 and is within the US 421 Michigan Road Overlay Zone. Filed by Richard Gallegos,III of Valvoline,
LLC.
Petitioners: Richard Gallegos III (Valvoline)&Brian Cross(Civil Site Group, Inc.)
Brian Cross:
• Valvoline desires to construct an oil change facility. It is in-between the existing Prime Car Wash and
Burger King.
• We did receive BZA approval on September 23'for gross floor area and vehicle stacking in the Front
Yard.
• You can see the existing"No Build"Line bisecting the property. This is leftover from the West Carmel
Marketplace.A building cannot be built north of the line,but landscaping, surface improvements,and
parking may. Any proposed structures have to be to the south in order to comply with the restrictive
access grant of easement agreement.
• Walnut Creek Drive is to the rear of the property. This is a dedicated access easement to the City. Our
drive is off Walnut Creek Drive.
• We are utilizing the existing curb cut to the south on Michigan Rd.This is a one way right turn only.
Vehicles enter the building from the south and then exit onto Walnut Creek Drive.
• We created more green space along the north side of the site.
• We rotated the dumpster enclosure. Previously it faced Michigan Rd. The gates now face north.
• We made the landscape islands a little larger for more viability.
• There are interior trees, shrubs,dumpster enclosure screening plantings,greenbelt buffer plantings,and
building plantings.
• Bike racks are proposed.
• Sidewalk connectivity to Michigan Rd. is present.
• The facility only requires six parking spaces per the UDO. 11 are proposed. This is similar to a quick
serve restaurant with a drive thru. Queuing of vehicles occurs and drivers remain in their vehicle during
service unless there is a need to use the lift or for tire rotation.
• The site is full of easements and we've accommodated this. We have worked with the utility companies.
• Architecturally,we have worked with Staff on the building components. We are looking primarily at a
masonry structure,all brick on all four sides. A shingled roof is present for a hip and prairie style look
with the tower element.
• Signage faces east and west.
• There are various styles of brick which accent and change the characteristics of the brick colors below the
masonry sill.
• Signage is on the tower element facing Michigan Rd.
• The front door is located on the north side of the building. There is a small waiting room.
• There is a basement level with worker platforms to change the oil.Chemical storage is present for dry and
wet products.There is an employee break room and changing room. The structure is a little over 2,077
square feet,but it is two floored,because of the basement.
• We have a color sample board(Titled Building Materials 10-01-19)
• There is no ground sign proposed, signage is only on the building.
• We have received landscape plan approval from the Urban Forester.
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 8
Department Report: Rachel Keesling:
• The two remaining outstanding comments have been addressed.The Urban Forester has approved the
landscape plan.The lighting plan was revised to meet the foot-candle requirements at the property line.
• This project has come a long way from the initial proposal.They used EIFS,the tower was taller,a larger
cabinet style sign was proposed,more building detail was added all around the building,and there is a
different brick pattern on the ground level.This is a nice building for an oil change facility.
• Both parties worked on the site plan to maximize its potential.
• Planter beds were increased.Initially there were three different drive aisles and it is now reduced for more
planting beds and a clearer path into the building.
• Staff has no outstanding issues for this petition.
• At the September 17th Commission, Staff mentioned that variances from a previous property proposal
exist.It is promising that something high quality is coming in.There are no items that do not meet the
overlay,which don't have variances.
• Staff recommends approval.
Committee Comments:
Laura Campbell:
• At Commission I expressed my disappointment that another oil change facility was coming in.I was
hoping to see more.I feel like it is a continuation of Michigan Rd. south of 96th St.Rachel Keesling: We
have our architectural standards in place on Michigan Rd.to push the best product possible.
Unfortunately,every area of Carmel cannot be like our downtown.There are different areas for different
people and those living near Michigan Rd. love this type of development.Michigan Rd.north of 96th St.
is better that what is to the south.Laura Campbell: I drive along Michigan Rd. frequently,and I think
we can do better.Joshua Kirsh: Is it better than south of 96th St.a little bit though?Laura Campbell: I
want to raise the bar.Joshua Kirsh: To me,I feel like these businesses will not survive and that they will
become other businesses,and the city will be left with nice building.Alan Potasnik: That certainly is a
nice building.Joshua Kirsh: I don't think the fluid business will be what we think it will be in a few
years. We could be having coffee here in the future.Laura Campbell: That would be nice.I am just
afraid this will end up like the car wash building that is for sale on Cannel Dr. (Rama Car Wash).Mike's
Car wash came in and now we have this empty building.Joshua Kirsh: Mike's Car Wash was there
before the recent one.Alan Potasnik: Are you talking about the one on Carmel Dr.?Rachel Keesling:
Rama Car Wash.Alan Potasnik: Duke's was there before Mike's Car Wash.
Laura motions to forward Docket No. 19070003 to Plan Commission with negative recommendation.
Alan Potasnik:
• We are charged with approving it here.Rachel Keesling: You all have the authority.
Laura withdraws her motion.
Joshua motions to approve Docket No. 19070003,Alan seconds,2-1,Campbell,absent Adams.No Decision.
Joshua motions to forward Docket No. 19070003 to Plan Commission with positive recommendation,Alan
seconds,2-1,Campbell,absent Adams.No Decision.Docket No. 19070003 is tabled.
Brian Cross: In the B-3/Business zoning district is this a permitted use?Rachel Keesling: Yes.
6. Docket No. 19090002 ADLS Amend: Firestone-Exterior Color Change
The applicant seeks approval to paint the entire building two shades of grey and update signage.The site is
located at 1314 S.Range Line Rd. It is zoned B-1Business and is within the Range Line Road overlay zone.Filed
by Chris Nagy of BFRC,on behalf of the owner.
Petitioners: Lisa Rains(Sign Solution)
• Sign Solutions is a subcontractor for Bridgestone-Firestone.We were hired to work on their signage. I
have worked with the Sign Administrator to complete the signage only for the project. Staff picked up on
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 9
the fact that some painting was a part of the scope of work. During the sign review process, someone
painted the building.
• Staff notified Firestone that the proposed colors were not going to be approved. Firestone proposed a red
tower entrance.There was no way it would happen.Adjustments were made. Sign permits were almost
ready to go and then Staff discovered the building was painted. The initial drawings only showed the
fascia was to be painted.I have no excuse for why the whole building was painted.Rachel Keesling: The
fascia board at the top was supposed to be painted.Lisa Rains: That was the only thing that was
supposed to be painted.Rachel Keesling:Not the brick.Lisa Rains:Not the entire building.
• Alan Potasnik: I don't understand why there isn't a representative here to explain why the whole
building was painted.There is a negative recommendation in the Department Report.Joshua Kirsh: I am
at the same place.Lisa Rains: I did not think I was the one that needed to come.I had nothing to do with
the painting. Firestone insisted I come because I was working with Staff on signage. I did not realize the
building would be painted.Neither did the Sign Administrator. I think you drove by and saw it.Nathan
Chavez: I drove by on a Friday and saw the painted building. Lisa Rains: He called me and asked
`What's going on?' I don't know why Firestone isn't here.Alan Potasnik: You were put in a tough spot.
• Joshua Kirsh: You are seeking approval to paint the top part of the building and change the brick?I am
trying to understand the proposal.Nathan Chavez: Originally the application including new signage,
which is in compliance,and painting of the fascia.Joshua Kirsh: To give it a fresh coat.Nathan
Chavez: Yes.Lisa Rains: I think they were taking the red and blue away.Nathan Chavez: Yes and
adding dark grey and light grey. I drove by a week later and the whole building was painted a dark grey
and light grey. Because Staff was not favorable to approving painting of the whole building this petition
would need to be seen by Commercial Committee. Originally only an administrative ADLS Amendment
was needed. Painting of the building triggered the need for the Committee because Staff would not
approve painting of the brick.
• Joshua Kirsh: What are we to do?I am inclined to say no. I want someone to be accountable for painting
the brick.Alan Potasnik: I am with you and I think we all are.The Staff recommendation is to deny the
petition,which means,I assume, Staff would like the petitioner to work with them and then be seen
again?Nathan Chavez: Preferably we would like to see the paint from the brick removed. I did ask the
petitioner to provide options for this.Lisa Rains: I do know that it can be sandblasted off.Alan
Potasnik: Would it be appropriate to say that Staff would like to work further with the petitioner on this
and then bring this back to us at the November 7th,2019 Committee?Rachel Keesling: And have a
representative from Firestone?Alan Potasnik: Yes.Joshua Kirsh: Can we approve what was supposed
to happen,but hold it until the resolution is complete?We can solve Lisa Rain's problem tonight.Alan
Potasnik: I see what you mean,but I am going to vote against it.I think this is a sensitive area and street
in Cannel that really needs to be hammered out.I personally would like to have somebody from Firestone
that has authority to explain.Joshua Kirsh: I was just trying to move the ball down the field.Lisa Rains:
you really can't put up the signs until the issues with the building colors are straightened out.
• Alan Potasnik: I am going to make a motion to deny the petition this evening and to have the petitioner
work with Staff and bring it back for the November agenda. One way or another,they are not just going
to walk away from this.Joshua Kirsh: We are not necessarily denying this. We are tabling it. Alan
Potasnik: Yes.Joshua Kirsh: The other question is what can we do to hold Firestone accountable for
this action, should they not show up at the November meeting.Nathan Chavez: I am holding their sign
permits,until this is resolved.Additionally, Staff can send violation notices.Joshua Kirsh: That takes
30-ays to process right?Nathan Chavez: Yes.
Alan motions to table Docket No. 19030003,Joshua seconds, motion passes 3-0,absent Adams.
Meeting adjourned at 7:38 PM.
Nathan Chavez Recording Secretary Alan Po nik Committee Chairman
Commercial Committee Minutes 10-01-19 10