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City of Carmel
Carmel Plan Commission
RESIDENTIAL COMMITTEE
December 3, 2019 Meeting Minutes
LOCATION: CAUCUS ROOMS
CARMEL CITY HALL,2ND FLOOR
ONE CIVIC SQUARE
CARMEL,IN 46032
Members Present: Susan Westermeier-Chair
Nick Kestner
Carrie Holle
Members Absent: Tom Kegley
Staff Present: Alexia Lopez-Planning Administrator
Joe Shestak-Administrative Assistant
Mike Hollibaugh-Director of DOCS
Legal Counsel: John Molitor
Meeting Time: 6:00 p.m.
1. Docket No. 19080006 PP: Smokey Row Road &Monon Primary Plat
The applicant seeks site plan and primary plat approval for a new mixed use development on 27.84 acres,which will
include apartments,townhomes,condominiums, single-family homes and retail and office. The site is located on the
north side of Smokey Row Road, between the Monon Greenway and Meridian Street and is zoned UR/Urban
Residential and P1/Park and Recreation. Filed by Rebecca McGuckin of Old Town Companies, LLC.
Petitioner: Justin Moffett,Old Town Companies,LLC.
• Since last month's meeting,we have made some adjustments to our site plan
• We have a series of waivers requests for PC and variance requests for BZA to enhance the project. These
requests will not make the project denser,but make the project better.
• Staff asked us not to request a PUD,but instead work with the base zoning and ask for variances and waivers
• CC adopted a resolution for TIFF allocation area and allowed us to bond against the assessed value of the
commercial and multi-family components of the project to build infrastructure
• There are City Engineering plans for the redevelopment of Smokey Row Road,that includes the roundabout
• As part of the grant from the State,we would commit to 20%of the housing units to be affordable. We want to
integrate the affordable housing throughout the entire development. These units will have the same floor plans.
• Traffic was a big discussion at the last meeting
• Staff asked for a 12' wide path. The multi-use path will be 10' wide and connect to the Hagan Burke Trail.
• The internal sidewalks are a mix of 5' and 6' wide. If there's a risk of a car parking next to a sidewalk curb for
angle parking,the sidewalk will be 6' wide
• Our development commitments are 1)Single family and townhomes adjacent to Smokey Row shall have a front
elevation facing Smokey Row.2)The historic home on property shall be preserved. 3)The historic home on
property will be used as an amenity to enhance the cultural experience of neighborhood residents and guests.
Uses may include a restaurant,a community gathering/event space,offices that serve the needs of the community,
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or other uses that are compatible with the programming objectives of North End.4)The commercial building
adjacent to Smokey Row that are immediately north of Kensington Place(KP)shall be no more than 3 stories in
height. 5)All commercial building signage facing Smokey Row shall be installed to minimize the impact of KP
such as neon and/or backlit signs designed to illuminate translucent panels. 5)Developer shall make
commercially reasonable efforts to work with the State of Indiana to install additional landscape plantings in the
greenspace buffer along U.S. 31.
• We don't have the legal authority of what can be planted along U.S. 31. Carmel does has an agreement with the
State in maintaining the greenspace along U.S. 31.
• Presented a cross section. We wanted to show to scale what the office building heights are compared to KP. The
commercial use buildings directly across from KP will be 3 stories high.
• Per Staff s request,we wanted to show what the eastern portion of the property would look like if it's ever
acquired and developed.Presented an exhibit with 9 single family lots. This area is also zoned UR. There's no
intention of selling this area.
• Presented a traffic report. These are projected traffic counts that will exit and enter this site during AM&PM
peak times. The report shows 163 cars exiting the development during AM peak hours.
• We can't fix all the traffic problems in this area,but we are working with City Engineering to add some solutions
that will help improve it
• Approvals for the dumpster locations will be part of the ADLS process
Petitioner: Rebecca McGuckin:
• We are eligible for tax credits to allow us to develop affordable housing in this project. We are planning on
having 48 units available for affordable housing.
• Construction will begin in the spring of 2020
Department Report: Alexia Lopez:
• The dumpster location will not be included on the site plan since it will be part of the ADLS process
• The path has moved between the historical home&amenity center. We will need an updated plan to show this.
• Have your commitments drafted as a legal and recorded document before you come before the Plan Commission
• I will talk to Staff about a sign package and have the language set for it
• Have the site plan show either crushed stone or asphalt for the walking path
Committee Comments:
Carrie: Who's eligible for the affordable housing? Justin Moffett: Adults with mental and physical disabilities.
Anyone is available to apply. We are not just offering the housing. There will be programing and support services that
will go along with this on our campus. An example of this type of housing is at Fort Benjamin Harrison. Our
development was selected because of the walkability to employment and the urban farm with create employee
opportunities.
Sue: How does the ADA compliant work for this development? Justin Moffett: All buildings will be ADA
compliant. We will have elevators in each building.
Nick: What do you mean by affordable? Justin Moffett: It's truly affordable. Rents would be in the$200-$300 a
month. We don't set the rates. These are the highest tax credits you can get and they will entirely pay for the
construction. There's no long term revenue but we want to serve a need in this community. Sue: Is it a onetime tax
credit? Justin: Yes,a onetime upfront tax credit and it will last forever.
Sue: Why can't all sidewalks be 6' wide?It would be useful for ADA users. Justin Moffett: It's a matter of
available real estate. Sean Downey, Shrewsberry&Associates, LLC. : 5' width is the standard. Alexia: 5' is the
City standard for residential sidewalks.Retail and urban areas are 6' wide.Nick: I have a problem with 5' sidewalks
in a more congested area such as apartments and office spaces because it forces them to use the street.Justin: I would
argue that we will have a 10' wide path in our most congested areas. Carrie: Do you interpret the 5' sidewalks within
the development to be heavily traveled? Justin: I do not. Alexia: I don't think they will be dead sidewalks. The
local residents will be using them. Justin: If something has to give,I'm willing to change them. We are meeting the
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City standard of 5'. Sue: How difficult is it to change all 5' to 6'? Justin: We can bring this up in the ADLS
process.The sidewalk widths will affect our building layouts.
Nick: I question the crushed stone path because it's a continuous maintenance issue and it will be hard to use for
people in wheelchairs. You can use asphalt instead. Justin Moffett: We thought the crushed stone would be more
attractive. We were going for more of a natural look. The grade of the path is not ADA friendly and makes this area
not ADA useable. Nick: Talk to the Parks Dept. about their maintenance problems with the crushed stone path at
West Park. Justin: I don't know enough information to make a decision today. When we come back for ADLS for
the condo section,we would then make that decision for the path type. Alexia: Update the site plan to show either
crushed stone,asphalt, or TBD.
Sue: Did you commit to no lit signs? Justin Moffett: We are committing to no lit or neon signs. We will have
signage, such as blade signs that will use halo and landscape lighting. We will have to meet signage requirements per
our ADLS process. Alexia: Can you commit to no cabinet signs,where the light shines through? Justin: We will
have Staff let us know what is allowed and we will adjust our verbiage in our commitments regarding the signage.
Sue: The traffic is a bigger problem than this project since Smokey Row can't be widened.Alexia: They dedicated
their ROW on the north side of Smokey Row so the City of Carmel will make road improvements.
Sue: What do you plan to build first? Justin Moffett: Phase 1 of construction will include the single family homes
and everything west of that includes the office node.
Nick: I can forward this if the path materials and width are not set and can be reviewed and changed during the ADLS
process. Alexia: The locations should at least be set. Nick: I agree. Justin Moffett: What's the next step? Alexia:
The next step would be the administrative approval of the secondary plat(SP). Justin: We will show the difference
between the 5' and 6' path widths. The approval of the SP will allow Shrewsberry to complete the civil drawings so
we can start construction in the spring. The 10' path is in our future phase/plans. The townhome pads will be fixed
after PC approval. We will provide a clarification to the PC what sidewalks are 5' and 6'. Sue: Alexia mentioned in
the Dept. Report, Staff wanted a 12' path. Alexia: David Littlejohn mentioned that the existing Hagen Burke Trail
(HBT)is 12' wide. Staff wants to see the HBT extended through this site. Since its 12' wide,we would like it to
remain 12' wide throughout this site. Justin: There's no obligation for us to provide a second multi-use path
throughout the site. The thoroughfare plan only has the multi-use path along Smokey Row Road.As far as the width,
it's unnecessary. As for the location,we were advised by the City to have a path connection that can go through the
entire site. The HBT is 12' wide because it's in a naturalistic section of the Monon. The HBT extension through our
site is not a naturalistic section because our site is along US 31 and this is an urban residential area. No one is telling
us what a 12' path in our site will get us. Carrie: What are you required to do? Justin:Nothing. Nick: 10' will be
wide enough because you won't have the same amount of traffic as the Monon Trail.
Sue: Do all the buildings have a residential component to them? Justin Moffett: Per the UR standards,that is
required. We are seeking a variance through the BZA to have our commercial node to not have a residential look to
them.
A Motion made by Carrie and seconded by Nick to forward Docket No. 19080006 PP to the full Plan
Commission with a favorable recommendation. Approved 3-0,absent Kegley.
The meeting adjourned at 7:07 p.m.
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J Shestak—Recording Secretary Susan Westermeier—Chair
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Residential Committee Minutes 12-3-19