HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCM-06-06-77 MINUTES OF T~
CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Jttue 6, 1977
The regular meeting of the City Council was called to order at 7:30 PM byMayor
Pickett who presided. All members and Clerk-Treasurer were present. City Attorney
was present till 7:55 PM.
Minnie Doane gave the invocation. Mayor Pickett led the pledge of allegiance.
Councilman Deaumoved to dispense with the reading of the minutes and approve them
as received, Councilman Meacham seconded it and it passed unanimously.
CUMULATIVE STORM SEWER DRAINAGE FUI~D: Due to a technicality in previous advertising,
State Tax Commissioners had requested a new public hearing on resolution levying a
tax of .05 cents on each $100.00 of taxable and personal property for the purpose of
establishing a cumulative s~orm sewer drainage fund for the purpose of building,
repair and maintenance of storm drains within the City of Carmel. Mayor Pickett
opened the advertised public hearing. No one from the public spoke regarding the
p~posed resolution. Councilman Garretson moved to adopt Resolution #1-51177 as
presented, Councilman Doane seconded it and it passed unanimously.
ACREAGE AiID TAP FEES-WATER SERVICE: Mayor Pickett stated a meeti~was held regarding
acreage and tap fees approximately one week ago and nothing was resolved. Since that
time, he has had two additional meetings with some of the developers. He stated this
had not been finalized at this point and he didn't feel there was anything further
to discuss on this matter. Councilman Garretson asked if the Mayor could give some
kind of timetable before he brought an ordinance to the Council. Mayor Pickett
stated he felt there had to be some input by the Council on this. Councilman Meacham
asked if McCullough and Associates could substitute $225.00 for the $5~0 in their
Plan A in the report and set the rate charges accordim~ly, 10% increase in 1985 and
another 10°k charge in 1990. Mayor Pickett stated he would go on record as stating
he was not in favor of the residents living here now paying for development. He
stated he didn't want to be unreasonable but felt the developers have to pay their
way as well as the people who live here. Coumcilman Coots stated because the Council
had been silent in some regard on the amount of input on figures we have accumulated
from time to time he would like to review where we are presently. Some time ago,
the Council determined to reduce the water service district from all of Clay Tow~nship
to the defined are~ We then submitted to the engineering firm of Cldye E. Williams
to come back with the raw figures that would be required to provide water for this
re-defined water service district. We did have the figures from the Clyde Williams
firm which amounted to approximately $1,000 per new house to be built in the City of
Carmel. We, at that time, determined, and the builders objected to, such an assessment
as a "no growth" policy for a prohibition for a new development in the Carmel area
and the developers then employed Steeg firm, who gave figures to us that were about
1/10th of what Clyde Williams figures were for the same water service district.
Clyde Williams then came back with the figures revised to where we come up with the
$520 per resident presently in the accounti~ report to us as being the reasonable
figures that this City should adopt in terms of new home construction in order to
authorize over a period ofyears the cost of water availability for new construction
in the City of Carmel. That figure has also been determined by those interested in
development as too expensive in comparison.to other hot spot areas of building in
Hamilton County. So now what we are gettim~ are all sorts of numbers all of which
have no reasonable basis in the facts we havebeen presented with and either we tell ou~
consulting engineers the type of water system forecast will require for the period
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of years we are talking about and then adopt those figures or we have no confidence
in our consulting eo~ineers and the figures they give us. M~yor Pickett stated we
have had three different sets of figures.based on three different water service areas.
Councilman C~rretson stated he felt if the Mayor was satisfied with the latest
Clyde E. Williams report, he should bri~ an ordin~uce to the Council based on the
figures they recommend. The Council could then discuss i~ in a public Council meeting.
Mayor Pickett stated he would bring an ordinance to the next meeting.
~WARDS TO TH~ CITY: Mayor Pickett read letter from Indiana Water Pollution Control
Association commending the Carmel Wastewater System for operati~ for 12 months without
an accident. He then presented the award certification to Utilities Manager, Jim
Dougherty. Mayor Pickett then read letter congratulati~ Carmel on winning first
place in Indi~ in the Bi-Centennial Votingest City Contest. Mayor Pickett then
presented a copy of the resolution to representatives of the Sertoma, League of Women
Voters s~ud the Chamber of Commerce, org~uizations instrumental in "getting out the vote."
NEW CABLE TV C~LANNEL: Mayor Pickett stated he had received notice from a law firm in
Washi~ton that, in all probability, there will be another channel added to Cable TV.
ORDINANCE D-118 STOP SIGNS: CARMEL DRIVE: Proposed Ordinance ~D-118 designati~ stop
signs as follows was read by Mayor Pickett:
Direction of Travel Street
East Carmel Dr.
West Carmel Dr.
North Carmel Dr.
South Carmel Dr.
At Intersection of
Eden Estates Dr.
EdenEstates Dr.
Eden Glen Dr.
Eden GlenDr.
Several residents from that ~rea were present and commented as follows:
John Keating: "I live at Eden Estates Dr. and Carmel Dr., right by the proposed stop
sign. This stop sign would be a three-way stop. One stop sign coming from the east
to west would be on a blind curve, which means the stop sign would be between two
drive-ways and I disagree with the stop sign being at that point, for a number of reasons
(1) the main problem of the traffic is west to east on the straight run to the curve.
The curve starts almost in front of my house and begins to curve north to the left. The
street is graded down. I propose a Stop sign at RollingSpringsDrive and Horseshoe Lane
which is now a two way stop sign. That would slow them down comi~ from Keystone before
they get to Carmel Dr. curve. It is only 300' from that intersection to the beginning
of the curve."
P~chard Nolan, 3%14 E. Carmel Dr.: "It is my contention that we should place the stop
sign as near as we can to the curve. It is also my contention that speed will be picked
up after they stop at Rolling Springs and by the time they make the curve ~nd approach
Eden Glen Drive they will be approaching up to 40 miles an hour. I think the stop sign
should be at Eden Estate Drive and second stop sign at Eden Glen Dr."
Jack Stafford: "I live on the corner of the proposed stop sign and I wholeheartedly
agree with the ordinance you have presented. But another sign as you come from the west
would correct it from both directions. The situation is serious with the children walking
to Mohawk Trails School."
City Engineer stated he would recommend the stop sign bei~ at Rolling Sprin~s Drive.
Donna Park, 3518 Carmel Drive: "If we have to move the signs to Rolling Springs Drive
and Horseshoe Lane, I feel like there should be a third at High Drive, because all the
construction trucks go so fast they sound like they are comi~ through the bedroom
window and small children are present."
Councilman Reiman stated Carmel Drive h~s become a thro~ghfare and she would have to go
with the stop sign on the curve. Councilman Meacham asked if a police report had been
filed on this item. Mayor Pickett stated he did not have a formal report but they have
run radar checks out there. Councilman Coots moved for adoption of D-118, Councilman
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Reiman seconded it. Councilman Coots then moved to amend D-118 to substitute
Rolling Springs & Horseshoe Lane for Eden Estates Drive in the first two instsnces
so we end up with stop signs at Rolling Spri~s Drive and Horseshoe Lane and
Carmel Drive and Eden Glen Drive and take out the stop sign at Eden Estates Drive.
Councilman Garretson seconded the ~mendment.
Mrs. 0'Neal: "I invite all of the Council to come and sit in my driveway on
Friday night and play bridge or pesknuckle and see how lon~ you would last on
that curve. Rollin~ SpriD~s Drive and Horseshoe La~e is too far out and won't
help the curve."
Bob Jenkins: "Could bumbs solve the problem?"
City Engineer: "There is a mechanical problem in using bumbs."
Bob Gretis, 3524 Carmel Drive: "I think the basic problem here is "cut-through"
traffic. As soon as there is enough stop signs 6n Carmel Drive that takes them
longer to get from 126th St. to Keystone on Carmel Drive then it does to go to
Keystone on 126th and down to Keystone Square, our problem is solved. I would
like to see you put stop signs all the way from Keystone up to 126th St. and
let's eliminate the "cut through" problem. Councilman G~rretson stated he would
suggest, as was suggested at last meeting, that the Police Chief file a report
with the Council as to his recom~nendation on safety. M~yor Pickett stated the
Police Chief had been out there with him on two different occasions and he does
favor the two stop signs. Councilman Reiman moved to suspend the rules and act
on the ordinance tonight, Councilman Coots seconded it and it failed, 3 ayes
~ nays. Councilmen Doane, Dean, Meacham and Garretson voti~ nay. Ordinance
was shown as being introduced.
Meeting was recessed at 8:25 PM.
Meeting was re-convened at 8:31 PM.
Councilm~n Garretson stated it was his understandi~ from the discussion duri~
the recess that there appears to be no disagreement on the desirability to have
a stop sign at Eden Glen Drive. There seems to be some disagreement on whether
another sign should be added at Eden Estates or Horseshoe Drive or both. He
would, therefore, like to re-consider the motion to suspend the 1-ules, Councilman
Swift seconded it and it passed unanimously. Councilman Ga~Tetson then moved to
amend Ordinance D-118 by striking out the east and west stop sign on Eden Estates
Drive as smended to Rolling Spring-s and Horseshoe Drive. Councilman Meacham
seconded it and it passed unanimously. Ordinance now reads to add a stop sign at
Carmel Drive and Eden Glen Drive. It would be a three-way stop sign at the base
of the curve. Motion passed unanimously. Councilman G~rretson stated he would
then suggest the City ~ttorney be instructed to prepare an ordinance for two
meetings from now for putting one at RollingSpri~s Drive or Eden Estates Drive
or both after the M~yor, Police Chief and City Engineer have looked it over.
Councilman Swift asked how long it would take to get the sign up. The ordinance
that was passed authorizing one on Lakeshore Drive has not been installed as ye~.
City Engineer stated he did not have the markers to put on the stop sign. Mayor
Pickett stated he would check it out the next day.
ORDINANCE ~S-~2: Proposed ordinance ~S-32, amending pars~raph 30~ of Section 3
of OrdinanCe ~S-25 was read by Mayor Pickett. Proposed ordinance would not allow
summer sprinkli~ rates for sewer service. Councilman Coots moved to adopt the
ordinance as read, Councilman Dean seconded it. Councilm~n Meacham moved to
suspend the rules, Councilman Deane seconded it and it passed unanimously. Mayor
Pickett stated it was not felt tha~t until such time as we get the new Well and storage
on line that we can give summer sprinkling rates. One lady in the audience stated
they built a new house and had new sodding put in last seer and it cost $95.00
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6-6-77
one month when they watered their new sod. For one reason or ~nother, they had
estimates on their water bill thereafter and the computer fouled it up. She
stated she had been do~n to the water company at least five times and she had
not had a water bill since February. Mayor Pickett stated the Utilities Manager
would be happy to discuss the matter with her. Councilman Swift asked if they had
ever had an indication of how much good this actually does from a practical point
of view. Mayor Pickett stated he couldn't really say. Utilities Manager stated he
didntt have any facts to say that it does save water. A gentleman in the audience
asked Mayor Pickett what the water situation in the City actually was. Mayor Pickett
stated we presently had under construction a new well that will supply 1.2 million
gallons per day. There is a defective well on the Brookshire system out on the
Jr. High property. Mayor Pickett stated since that time we have had a complete
survey by the USGS which we have a continuing contract with. We know now where
the water is and the water is where we are drillingI the well on the Lynnwood Farm.
We get constant feed-back on this. Bob Morey stated there had been some allegations
in the newspaper about what we have been paying for people to come in and tell us
where the wells are to be drilled etc. and the money we paid is almost one-half
million dollars. Mayor Pickett stated those figures were not all accurate and this
was not a subject on the agenda and we were not going to discuss it at this meeting.
A gentleman in the audience asked if it was legal to charge sewer rates for sprinkli~
law-ns. M~yor Pickett stated he didn't feel we had any alternative. A gentleman in
t~ audience asked how it was determined that S-25 should be amended if there were no
facts indicati~ it would save water. Mayor Pickett stated when 1000 people are
watering their lawns we cannot pump to capacity. The gentleman stated he felt there
should have been some research done to back up the theory because it was expensive
to the people to have dry lawus. Mayor Pickett stated a week ago the tower went dow~n
to ten feet when everyone was watering their lawns. He stated they are working on
the projects as fast as they could go. Motion to adopt the ordinance passed
unanimously.
DISCUSSION OF ORDINANCE D-8~: Clerk-Treasurer stated she had inquiries~ regarding
Ordinance D-89, requiring the removal of snow from sidewalks and cutting of high weeds
and grass and the removal of debris and rubbish from sidewalks and lots, which the
Council passed March l, 1976. Ordinance provided a penalty for violation of the
ordinance. There have been occasions when the City has had to go onto a property and
cut grass and remove debris. A total of $328.00 ~as been spent on one property along
S. Rangeline Road. Clerk-Treasurer stated she was asked if a lien could be filed to
recover that money and in reviewing the history of the ordinance had found there had
been some discussion of inserting a provision into the ordinance to allow a lien to be
filed on the property but the City Attorneyhad stated he could find no provisions
where cities had that power. Councilman Coots stated there is statutory authority
without it being contained in the ordinance to affix the lien to the delinquent property
owner, although the statue that authorizes that states that the method for fixi~ the
lien shall be established by the ordinance which is not contained in ordinance and to
clear up, any ambiguity, it would be best to put into the ordinance the procedure and
time requirements to affix the lien in the event of default under the ordinance.
Councilman Garretson moved that the City Attorney be directed to prepare an amendment
to Ordinance D-89 stating the procedure by which ~iens can be attached for violati~
0rdinauce D-89. Councilman Reiman meconded it and it passed ananimously.
L~TTER RE: REGIONAL WASTE DISTRICT GRANT: Councilman Reimau stated a copy of a letter
from Westfield Town Board President, Jim Norris,directed to the ~ndiana Stream
Pollution Control Board, copy attached, had been received by the Mayor. She stated
she felt the Council should have been informed of the letter because of the serious
charges contained in it. She stated that due to this letter she would like, with
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6-6-77
Co~ucil approval, or she would pursue it alone, to turn the letter over to
Donald Dawson, Hamilton County Prosecutor, for the following reasons:l. There is
an implication and a reference to forgery. Forgery is a felony ~ud the proper
channel, in that event, is the H~milton County Prosecutor. 2.Councilm~u Reiman
asked the Clerk-Treasurer if she had received a call from Mr. Zinsmeister April 26th
or 27th aski~ for two checks totaling $206,000.00 for the initial steps for the
Regional Wastewater Project. Clerk-Treasurer stated she didn't remember the exact
date but it was close to that time. 3.Councilman Reiman stated she would ask
tonight as an elected official that we temporarily stop all payments for contractors
and agreements with this companyuntil this cloud of doubt has been lifted and
the compnzy's name h~s been completely exonerated. 4.She stated we must look ahead
and realize that Clyde E. Williams figures on the Regional Sewer Contract is around
20-25 million dollars. She stated she wanted more facts and another opinion.
Councilman Reiman stated she would like to suggest a private accounting firm go
over the Clyde E. Williams costs over the past two years with our Clerk-Treasurer
so we are assured of no over-charging funds for the City of Carmel. Councilman
Reimam stated it is our duty to protect the Carmel taxpayers. CouncilmamReiman
stated due to the circumstances mentioned above, she would like for the Council to
re-consider the water pack~ge through 1995 with Clyde E. Williams & Associates.
Councilman Reiman asked why Council members were not asked to attend the Regional
Meetings. M~yor Pickett stated it was just for the steering committee and usually
only one representative from each Town, City or District. M~yor Pickett stated
Mr. Ron Bohner, who was appointed by the Heartlamd Organization to more or less
monitor the engineering aspects of this project, had put a group of figures together.
Mr. Norris picked this report that Mr. Bohner put together, brought this up one
night, because this was broken down into percentages, it was money for putting the
facilities plan together which Carmel was appointed the lead ~gency amd these
various percentages and amounts of money which Were federal and state funds, were
granted to Carmel to pay for this facility plan. They were designated to put this
plan together. M~yor Pickett stated he had received a copy of a letter from
Mr. Carl Fox, Chief of Construction Grant Section, Indiana State Board of Health,
copy attached, which stated there was nothing to the charges. Mayor then read the
letter. Mr. Herb Zinsmeister, of Clyde E. Williams & Associates appeared before the
Council and reviewed the history of the project. He stated copies of his notes and
documentations would be available to ~ members of the Council. Mr. Zinsmeister
stated that in October, 197~, an application was prepared for the total Regional
Project, signed by Fred Swift, President of the Carmel Town Board, since Carmel
had been deslgn~ted as the lead agent. That application included four items
(1) Re-imbursement to the Town of Carmel for infiltration-inflow analysis only for
the Town of Carmel $41,000.00; (2) Funding for the Town of Carmel Sewer System
Evaluation only for the Town of Carmel $164,400.00; (3) Funding for a user-charge
system only for the Town of Carmel $51,000.00; (4) Funding for the Regional
Facilities Plan- this item involved Carmel-Clay, Town of Carmel, and Clay Township,
Westfield and approximately 3/8 -~of Washington Township, The Town of Fishers and
approximately 1/3 of Delaware Township, $59,700.00. Mr. Zinsmeister read a letter
to EPA which stated letters of intent had been signed by Westfield and Fishers but
stressed that they were not agreements and that ~greements would be required. In
January, 1975, a tri-party agreement signed only by Carmel was taken to the State
Board of Health. On the same date, representatives from all three communities, their
attorneys and engineers, met with the Board of Health. Westfield and Fishers were
informed they m~st get their agreements in immediately so the application could be
presented to the Stream Pollution Control Board on the 21st of January. The
~greements from Fishers and Westfield were then mailed. There were three seperate
~o~eements, each signed only by one community. March ll, 1975, the application was
certified by the State Board of Health to EPA. June, 1975, a grant award by EPA to
Carmel as the lead agency, the eligible project costs were $237,400.00. The EPA
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6-6-77
gr~nt was in the amouut of $178,050.00. The work was subsequently authorized by
Carmel as the lead agency to their consultant and Westfield ~nd Fishers presumably
had their consultants do some portion of the work. March l, 1977, a payment application
for partial payment to EPA was made for $139,57~.00 based on the work they had
p~rformed in the ~moant of $206,73?.00. On April 7, 1977, EPA advised the City of
Carmel they had approved a pay request in the ~mount of $127,200.00. Mr. Zinsmeister
stated they did call the Clerk-Treasurer and ask for the money, but they had no
knowledge of the letter from Mr. Norris at that time. They called because they
umderstood the grant money had been received and the money was owed them. He stated
it was just a coincidence that the call and the letter came about the same time.
Mayor Pickett stated he would like to say that the letter from Norris wa~ ~n attempt
to stop the Regional Sewer Program. Councilman Swift stated Mr. Norris had indicated
in his letter he only aSm~t~ed signing one letter of intent ~ud he understood they
sig~ed another ~greement which went to the Board of Health and someone took the
signature page from that and the one from Eishers and attached it to our agreement.
Mr. Zinsmeister stated if someone did attach it to the agreement it must have been
someone at the Board of Health. Mayor Pickett stated he felt there had been some pretty
serious insinuations in the Shmday Star. Councilmam Swift stated the most revealing
thi~ to him in th~ article was the large amount of dollars paid out to his firm. He
stated it struck him as quite sad that the m~jority of the City Council didn't seem to
think we needed a budget to control that amount of money. A gentleman from the audience
expressed his opinion that the Utilities should be budgeted.
MISSING COUNCIL MEETING TAPE,: Coumcilman Reiman stated she had tabled this item six
weeks ago in the interest of time and left it off thinki~ she would get some input
back but had not been notified, so she would now like to ask if the Police Department
has investigated the June 7, 1976 Council Meeting Tape which was missi~ from the
Clerk-Treasurer's office. Mayor Pickett read a letter from the Police Chief stating
he would be out of town the night of the Council Meeting but would be happy to discuss
it in the future.
STOP SIGN ORDINANCE: Councilman Coots moved to add an item to the agenda with reference
to location of stop signs, Councilman Reiman seconded it and it passed 6~1, Councilman
Dean voting nay. Councilm~u Coots moved to adopt Ordinance ~D-119, copies presented
to the Council, providi~ for the installation of new stop signs on L~keshore East Drive
between 106th Street and ll6th Street and submit at the time sf introduction of the
ordinance a petition from the area residents as to the location and the necessity for
the stop signs and to be discussed and voted on at the next meeting, Councilm~n Swift
seconded it. Ordinance was shown as bei~ introduced.
There being no further business the meeti~ was adjourned at 9:~ PM.
ATTEST
Peggy Lou
Clerk-Treasurer
Approved: