HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCM-12-03-90CARMEL CITY COUNCIL
MEETING MINUTES
DECEMBER 3, 1990
CARMEL CITY HALL/ONE CIVIC SQUARE
7:00 P.M.
The meeting of the Carmel City Council was called to order by Mayor
Hancock. Members present were Councilors Minnie Doane, Lee Lonzo,
Annabelle Ogle, Alan Potasnik, David Adams, Frank Fleming and Tom
Irvin. City Attorney Steve Andrews and Clerk-Treasurer Susan W.
Jones were also present.
The invocation was given by Councilor Doane followed by the Pledge
of Allegiance.
Councilor Irvin wanted the discussion of between Tom
MINUTES:
Kendall and Lee Lonzo the purchase of Civic Square Centre
transcribed verbatim.
Councilor Potasnik wanted Ordinance D-679 to be changed to show
that all the intersections around Civic Square were "yield" signs,
rather than "stop" signs.
Councilor Potasnik moved to approve the minutes of November 19,
1990 with the transcription included and the change to D-679. The
motion was seconded by Councilor Adams. All members voted aye.
Motion carried.
Councilor Lonzo presented a plaque to the Director of
AWARDS:
Carmel High School Marching Band and members of the Drum majors
honor of the band winning the State Championship.
Councilor Fleming made a motion to approve the following
TRANSFERS:
transfers within the Carmel Police Department budget. The motion
was seconded by Councilor Irvin. All members voted aye. Motion
carried.
$750.00 from #l0l Salaries into #250 Travel - General
$4,000.00 from #101 Salaries into #471 Equipment Repair
$7,500.00 from #101 Salaries into #642 Other Equipment
$1,000.00 from #101 Salaries into #442 Telephone
Councilor Irvin made a motion to approve the following transfers
within the Department of Community Development and Plan Commission.
The motion was seconded by Councilor Doane. All members voted aye.
Motion carried.
$200.00 from #452 to 441 Plan Commission
$1,200 from #112 to 110 DOCD
$50.00 from #475 to #486 DOCD
$200.00 from #350 to #301 DOCD
ORDINANCE D-682/AMENDING THE SALARY ORDINANCE TO ADD THE POSITION
Councilor Potasnik made a motion to table this
OF DEPUTY BAILIFF:
item until December 17, 1990 so that a dollar amount could be
assigned to this position. The motion was seconded by Councilor
Adams. All members voted aye. Motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING/RE-ZONE REQUEST Z-258/BRENWICK DEVELOPMENT INC. AND
Councilor Ogle made a motion to introduce
AMERICAN AGGREGATES:
Ordinance Z-258 and suspend the rules for reading of the same. The
motion was seconded by Councilor Irvin. All members voted aye.
Motion carried.
City Attorney, Steve Andrews stated there was a possible problem
with the publication of the notices of the public hearing but there
was an even greater problem in that the statutes are not clear if
it is mandatory for a public hearing at the Council level.
Jim Nelson, attorney for the developer, pointed out to the Council
that state statute doesn't require a public hearing but that he has
always agreed to one because that was the common practice of the
Council.
Steve Andrews stated he would like to have more time to research
this matter. If, in fact, there does need to be a public hearing,
the petitioner needs to re-advertise and use the Noblesville Times
and the Noblesville Ledger and come back Dec. 17. Mr. Andrews also
stated that the Council could go ahead and have a public hearing
tonight and leave the public hearing open, re-advertise and
continue the public hearing until the 17th.
Steve Andrews said in light of the school having to re-do its
advertising, the Clerk-Treasurer had raised the same question on
the re-zone and felt it was a valid question. Mr. Andrews said that
on the surface it appeared a public hearing only has to be held at
the Plan Commission level and not at the Council level but didn't
feel comfortable with that interpretation until having more time to
check it out.
Councilor Potasnik stated that, having heard this re-zone at the
Plan Commission, he appreciated the seriousness of this re-zone and
of every re-zone, for that matter, and there should always be a
public hearing. The public should have the right to speak, he said.
Councilor Potasnik asked that the rules of the Council be re-done
and make it more stringent and require public hearings on
annexations and re-zones. Councilor Potasnik was in favor of
sending it back and having it re-advertised.
Councilor Lonzo agreed in part with Councilor Potasnik but felt the
council should hear the public tonight and then do it again in two
weeks.
Again, Steve Andrews suggested the council hold the public hearing
tonight and not close the hearing and ask Nelson to re-advertise
and come back in two weeks.
Jim Nelson, Attorney for Brenwick Development and American
Aggregates, cited IC 36-7-4-608 with respect to advertising and
stated that only 48 hours notice is required and that requirement
was met. Nelson said it has been an unwritten rule for the past
seven years and he has never used the Noblesville Times. Nelson
felt that he has gone above and beyond the call of duty on re zones.
Councilor Lonzo made a motion to proceed with the public hearing.
The motion was seconded by Councilor Doane. Councilor Potasnik
voted nay. All other members voted aye. Motion carried by a vote of
6 to 1.
It was left to the petitioner to decide if he wanted to re-
advertise. Nelson stated he would re-publish.
Jim Nelson then gave the presentation of the re-zone to the Council
and to the public.
The present zoning classification is S-l with the following
changes:
a. S-l Residence District - 144 acres (no change
b. S-2 Residence District - 98 acres requeste d)
c. R-2 Residence District - 141 acres
American Aggregates Corporation is the owner of a 385 acre parcel
of real estate in the eastern part of Clay Township and located:
1. North of and adjacent to East 116th Street and the Flowing
Well
2. Sout h of and adjacent to East 126th Street and Clay Jr.
High School
3. East of and adjacent to North Gray Road and O'Malia's
Shopping Center.
The development will occur in stages and it is estimated that 5-10
years will pass before completion.
The re-zone request is as follows:
1. a part be rezoned to R-2 to provide for single family homes
on individual lots not less than 8,000 sq ft in size
2. a part be rezoned to S-2 to provide for single family homes
on lots not less than 12,000 sq ft in size, and
3. a part remain zoned S-1 to provide for single family
homes on estate type lots not less than 15,000 sq ft in
size
The request for a change of zoning classification to accommodate
the proposed residential use is consistent with the recommended
land use under the current Comprehensive Plan and to the extent
deemed appropriate the most recent consensus map formulated under
the Comprehensive Plan Update.
The part of Clay Township in this area is predominantly
residential.
The Conceptual plan showed 5 entrances to the development and there
would be a total of 8 lakes. There is also dedication of additional
right of way.
1. East 126th Street - 40 feet 1/2 right of way - south side.
2. Gray Road - 40 feet 1/2 right of way - east side
3. E. 116th Street - 50 feet 1/2 right of way - north side
4. Boulevard - 120 ft. right of way
There would be a total of 544 homes over 385 acres for an average
of 1.5 or less homes per acre.
At this point, the mayor opened the discussion to the public. The
mayor called for questions, comments and or objections to the
rezone.
Mr.Chris Painchaud, 11529 Rolling Springs Drive, spoke in
opposition, based on five major points:
1. The so-called plan has been changed to accommo date certain
developers and not all of the land can be built, so the 1.5
homes per acre is not accurate.
2. Concern for infrastructure.
3. Where would the kids go to school? He wanted the Council to
consider the already $90 million high sch ool renovation
impact on taxes.
4. ''Unleashed " growth is not good for the community. Managed
growth supports responsible, steady and dependable growth.
5. Economics - American Aggregates said at the Plan Commission
hearing they still had 20 years of mineral life left on the
land. There is no doubt it would be good economics for
American Aggregates to sell now for a better profit.
6. The housing market is heavy with sellers and light with
buyers. Impact of more new houses on the market would
greatly impact the sale of older homes in the area.
Mr. Painchaud also objected to the Plan Commission only giving 20
minutes for remonstrance. He stated the room was filled to capacity
with taxpayers against the project, yet their pleas fell on deaf
ears. He stated only one person spoke in favor of the project.
Mr. Painchaud challenged the Council to prove to him and to the
taxpayers of Carmel that they care and asked for consideration.
Mr. Tom Kendall, 11818 Gray Road, also spoke in opposition to the
proposed project. Mr. Kendall stated he had attended all the Plan
Commission meetings and the Land Use Committee meetings concerning
this project.
He also stated that none of this opposition had to do with the
integrity of developer George Sweet but had to do with the impact
on the infrastructure, schools and resale value of the homes.
Mr. Kendall questioned the traffic impact study of the petitioner
and stated the figure of 10% impact on 116th Street was far too low
and calculated it at nearly 21.8% for the average and a 56% during
peak times.
Mr. Kendall stated the Council needed to coordinate growth or east
Carmel could turn into a Castleton-like nightmare. Mr. Kendall
pointed to another proposed home project, Avian Glen, at 146th and
Hazel Dell Road, that would add to the congestion.
Mr. Kendall was also concerned about the notice of the public
hearing. He appreciated the "policy" for the public hearing and
hoped they will continue to keep it. He was, however, upset at the
way the public hearing was held at the Plan Commission level. He
stated only 20 minutes were given for remonstration. He was
concerned that the Plan Commission only serves as an advisory body
to the Council and is not accountable to the public through the
election process.
Mr. Kendall stated that Councilors Ogle, Potasnik and Fleming have
already gone on record in favor of the project at the Plan
Commission level and it only takes one more vote on the Council to
approve the project. Mr. Kendall asked those three members to
consider abstaining from voting.
Mr. Kendall asked the Council to play by the rules and listen to
the public.
Ray Oliphant, 11932 Westwood Drive, resident of Northwood
Hills, said that even though he can't vote in Carmel he wanted to
express his opinion on this rezone.
Mr. Oliphant stated he has elevation maps of the area and Northwood
Hills is below the proposed project. Mr. Oliphant stated they
already have a water problem and this will only add to it.
Greg Binder, 11861 Hoster Road and President of the Northwood Hills
Neighborhood Association, spoke in opposition to this project.
Mr. Binder stated he shared the feelings of others who have spoken
this evening. Mr. Binder was concerned that the Plan Commission
takes public input but does not take action based on that input.
Mr. Binder said he felt the public hearings were a charade, plus
short notice of meetings gave the public a feeling of hopelessness.
People are beginning to feel they have no voice in government.
Mr. Binder then passed out an Indianapolis Star article about the
Castleton "mess" and pointed out that the "mess" was a result of
disregarding public input.
He also felt that with the 116th Street problem that already
exists, to allow this size of a project to empty out on to 116th
Street would only compound the problem. Mr. Binder felt a lot of
questions have gone unanswered. Mr. Binder pleaded with the Council
to look at the implications of a project of this size and solicit
more information on infrastructure and schools.
Bonnie Liggett, 11610 Bradford Place and President of the Woodbrook
PTO Board, spoke against the project. Mrs. Liggett's concerns dealt
primarily with the impact on the schools. Mrs. Liggett stated the
elementary schools were already to capacity and the main reason
most people moved to Carmel were the excellent school system but
with the rapid growth, the schools cannot keep up. Mrs. Liggett
also asked the Council to consider who will pay for all these new
schools. Mrs. Liggett projected there will be an additional 707
school children added to the system with this project alone.
Jim Meyers, 11708 River Road and Treasurer of the Northwood Hills
Neighborhood Association, spoke against the rezone. One of Mr.
Meyer's complaints dealt with the poorly drained soils in the area
and was concerned with the numerous lakes planned for this project.
Mr. Meyers stated the lakes would drain into Cool Creek and it
already seemed to be at capacity when we received a heavy rain.
Mr. Meyers stated that people have lost faith in the Plan
Commission and with no way to vote for the Plan Commission members
the public could only look to their elected officials to represent
their interests.
Mr. Meyers stated he was not opposed to growth but felt Carmel was
growing too fast and graceful growth was better.
Mr. Meyers asked the Council to wait until the 116th Task Force has
submitted their report before they take action.
Mr. Meyers also asked the Council to request the Carmel School
Board to submit input into this project and to respect citizens who
ask and raise concerns about density.
Rick McKinney, 50 Wilson Drive spoke in opposition to the project,
based on three specific concerns:
1. Impact on infrastructure and 116th Street.
2. Water and sewer expansion costs.
3. Need for new elementary school.
Mr. McKinney also objected to the 1.5 homes-per-acre calculation
stating he figured it at closer to 1.73 homes per acre after you
subtract out lakes, roads and undeveloped area.
Gail Bardach, 4714 Buckingham Court, spoke against the rezone as a
private citizen. Mrs. Bardach stated that so many people have so
many concerns. Mrs. Bardach has lived in Carmel for 13 years and
her husband owns a business in Carmel. Mrs. Bardach stated that
Carmel is a nice, safe and easy place to live and that she is not
anti-growth but things need to slow down.
Mrs. Bardach stated that the Plan Commission took no accounting of
the public's input and only one person spoke in favor of the re-
zone yet it passed unanimously.
Larry Fox of 12317 Brompton stated he has served on many boards,
been a resident of Carmel since 1969, financially supports many
projects within the community and this is the first City Council
meeting he has attended in 20 years. He asked the Council, "When
is enough, enough?" Mr. Fox was concerned with the impact projects
of this size would have on taxes and faced with retirement in a few
years wondered if he would be able to afford to live in Carmel.
His fear is that his tax bill is now becoming larger than the house
payment. He stated that people are becoming alarmed at the rate of
growth and that timing is so very important.
Roger Shaul, 11811 Yorkshire Lane, who claimed to be a "116th
Street Groupie" asked the Council members to put themselves in the
residents' places and look at the Plan Commission and how it
operates. He stated he felt citizens should control growth and not
developers. Mr. Shaul felt something was wrong and he felt uneasy
about what is going on in Carmel. Mr. Shaul asked the Council to
consider the impact on schools, water run-off and traffic and to
wait until the 116th Street committee has filed their report.
At this time the mayor asked for anyone else who wished to speak.
There being none the mayor asked for Council comments. The mayor
also announced that the hearing would not be closed but would be
continued at the December 17, 1990 meeting.
Councilor Potasnik stated he would wait until after the closing of
the public hearing before making his comments.
Councilor Lonzo asked about the gravel pits being turned into
lakes. Councilor Lonzo said it was always his perception that
gravel pits were dangerous and asked if Mr. Sweet would be making
any changes in the lakes. Mr. Sweet stated the banks would be re-
shaped but that the pits would remain the same. Mr. Sweet said the
pits were not as deep as an average size lake.
Councilor Lonzo stated he wanted to walk the area and come back at
the next Council meeting with his comments.
Jim Nelson addressed the concerns of drainage and stated this
presentation was made as a part of the Technical Advisory Committee
and was approved.
Councilor Lonzo asked Mr. Sweet the price ranges of the homes. Mr.
Sweet stated that in the S-1 section they would be $400,000 to
$600,000. In section S-2 they would range from $250,000 to $450,000
and in the R-2 section would be $140,000 to $250,000.
Councilor Ogle addressed the concerns of the wooded area and
complimented the developer for retaining many of the trees said the
overall plan that was presented to the Plan Commission has an even
greater tree coverage.
Councilor Adams asked if American Aggregates has reached its point
for use as a gravel pit. Developer, George Sweet said there were
still three to five years left to mine while the development was
going on.
Councilor Lonzo asked for input on schools for the December 17th
meeting.
Councilors Irvin and Adams both stated they would reserve their
comments until after the public hearing is closed.
Mary Stanley,
INDIANA DIGITAL ACCESS/REQUEST FOR FRANCHISE:
Attorney for the petitioner, explained the request for a franchise.
Indiana Digital Access is a utility much like Indiana Bell or AT&T
and requires a franchise within the City to install fiber optic
telecommunication lines.
Steve Andrews suggested the best way to handle this request is in
ordinance form.
The Council directed Andrews to work with Mary Stanley and return
at a January 1991 Council meeting. The Council also asked the City
Attorney to look into the possibility of charging a franchise fee.
This direction was done through a motion made by Councilor Lonzo
and seconded by Councilor Ogle. All members voted aye. Motion
carried.
Clerk-Treasurer Susan
SOLUTIONS GROUP CONTRACT/CLERK-TREASURER:
Jones presented her request for approval of a contract with
Solutions Group for 1991 at a rate of $50 per hour. Ms. Jones
stated this amount was approved by the Council at the budget
hearings this summer and that she did not want to tie up a contract
with a maximum amount. She stated she was having a communication
problem with the BPW in getting this approved.
Councilors Lonzo and Adams both stated the fee for software support
for Solutions Group was set by the Council for up to $50 an hour,
with a maximum to be spent in that line item of $30,000. If the
need for software support exceeded that amount then it would be
necessary to the Clerk-Treasurer to return to the Council for
either a transfer or an additional appropriation.
Councilor Irvin stated that under the Council rules that BPW should
approve the contract and he felt it should be referred back to the
BPW.
Councilor Lonzo made a motion to refer the contract approval back
to the BPW. The motion was seconded by Councilor Adams. All members
voted aye. Motion carried.
Councilor Irvin made a
ANNEXATION/LOT 13/THORNHURST ADDITION:
motion to introduce Ordinance C-150 and to suspend the rules for
reading of the same. The motion was seconded by Councilor Lonzo.
All members voted aye. Motion carried.
Ordinance C-150 calls for the annexation of Lot 13 in the
Thornhurst addition to the City of Carmel. This annexation came to
the Council on a favorable recommendation of the Board of Public
Works.
Councilor Adams made a motion to suspend the rules and act on C-150
tonight. The motion was seconded by Councilor Ogle. All members
voted aye. Motion carried.
Mayor Hancock called for the vote. All members voted aye. Ordinance
C-150 passed unanimously.
Councilor Potasnik made a motion to
COMMUNICATIONS CENTER CLAIMS:
approve the following claims. The motion was seconded by Councilor
Ogle. All members voted aye. Motion carried.
Duck Brothers Painting $ 1,260.00
Fuller Engineering $ 9,074.00
S & M Painting $ 250.00
Dart Corporation $ 76.00
$ 15.00
$ 120.00
$ 140.00
General Electric $ 3,825.00
Console System, Inc. $16,748.40
Councilor Adams made a motion
AMENDMENT TO SALARY ORDINANCE/D-684:
to introduce Ordinance D-684 and suspend the rules for reading of
the same. The motion was seconded by Councilor Fleming. All members
voted aye. Motion carried.
Mayor Hancock explained there was an error made on the original
Ordinance D-654 and this corrects that error.
Councilor Adams made a motion to suspend the rules and act on D-684
tonight. The motion was seconded by Councilor Potasnik. All members
voted aye. Motion carried.
Mayor Hancock called for the vote. All members voted aye. Ordinance
D-684 passed unanimously.
CHANGES AND AMENDMENTS TO ORDINANCE D-362/RULES AND REGULATIONS
Councilor Irvin asked for the
CONCERNING THE CITY COUNCIL:
Council's input into the changes and amendments they would like to
see in Ordinance D-362.
Councilor Potasnik made a motion to direct the City Attorney to
draft an ordinance or add it to the amendments to D-362 so that
public hearings are required on annexations and rezones and address
the publication issue. The motion was seconded by Councilor Lonzo.
All members voted aye. Motion carried.
There being no further business before the City Council the meeting
was adjourned.
APPROVED: Dorothy J. Hancock, Mayor
ATTEST: Susan W. Jones, Clerk-Treasurer