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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCM-08-05-91CARMEL CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES AUGUST 5, 1991 7:00 P.M. ONE CIVIC SQUARE/CARMEL CITY HALL The meeting of the Carmel City Council was called to order by Mayor Dorothy J. Hancock. Councilors in attendance were Frank Fleming, Alan Potasnik, David Adams, Annabelle Ogle, Lee Lonzo and Minnie Doane. Tom Irvin was absent. City Attorney Steve Andrews and Clerk- Treasurer Susan W. Jones were also in attendance. The invocation was given by Councilor Doane followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. MINUTES: Councilor Lonzo moved to approve the minutes of July 15, 1991. The motion was seconded by Councilor Potasnik. All members voted aye. Motion carried. Councilor Fleming offered an amendment to the July 31, 1991 special meeting minutes on page 2. The minutes stated Fleming made the motion and also seconded the motion. The motion was actually seconded by Councilor Ogle. Councilor Potasnik moved to approve the minutes of July 31, 1991 with that amendment. The motion was seconded by Councilor Fleming. All members voted aye. Motion carried. Councilor Potasnik made a motion to TRANSFER/COMMUNICATION CENTER: approve Resolution 8-5-91-1 which transferred $1,000 from account #407 Planning & Consultation into #358 Other Supplies and $500 from account #407 Planning and Consultation into #487 Trash Collection. The motion was seconded by Councilor Fleming. All members voted aye. Motion carried. Councilor Adams moved to suspend the rules and ADDITION TO AGENDA: add Ordinance D-720 to the agenda under new business. Adams stated this ordinance amending an Ordinance to establish a Department of Redevelopment pursuant to IC 36-7-14 and repealing all ordinances inconsistent therewith. Councilor Lonzo seconded the motion. All members voted aye. Motion carried. Mayor Hancock PUBLIC HEARING/ANNEXATION C-156/14300 GRAY ROAD: opened the hearing to the public calling for questions, comments and or objections on this annexation. The annexation was for 14300 Gray Road. Hearing none the Mayor closed the hearing to the public and opened it to the Council. Before the discussion of the Council the Mayor asked for Ordinance C-156 to be introduced. Councilor Potasnik moved to introduce C 156 and suspend the rules for reading of the same. The motion was seconded by Councilor Adams. There was no discussion from the Council. Councilor Potasnik asked the Clerk if this had been properly advertised. The clerk stated it had been advertised properly. Councilor Potasnik moved for the suspension of the rules so the Council could act on C-156 tonight. The motion was seconded by Councilor Ogle. All members voted aye. Motion carried. Mayor Hancock called for the question. All members voted aye. Ordinance C-156 passed unanimously. Andrews CIVIC CENTRE PURCHASE PROCEDURE/REPORT FROM STEVE ANDREWS: said he would like to defer to Mr. Kendall and have #3 on the agenda done before he made his report. Tom Kendall declined to go first and asked the Council continue the agenda as published. Andrews said he had consulted with bond counsel, Buddy Downs of Ice, Miller, Ryan and Donadio and Roger Umbaugh, the fiscal consultant for the City since the last meeting. Andrews said several ways of financing the Civic Centre building were discussed. Andrews stated that the purchase price for the building is $1.1 million with a credit line of $650,000 making it a total of $1.75 million and of that credit line the building corporation has probably used somewhere around $30,000. Andrews stated there is no purpose in the City financing a credit line of that magnitude. Andrews stated it was not needed and there were other ways to find sources for rehabilitating funds. Andrews said the City was now looking at financing $1.1 plus accumulated interest. Andrews said the City could do a General Obligation (GO) Bond but that would go against the tax freeze. Andrews stated the recommendation of bond counsel that the City do a financing package through a redevelopment commission since the City is not only buying the building but is also rehabilitating the facility as well. Andrews said this method of financing can be done in about 60 to 120 days. Andrews said there is a procedure that has to be followed. Andrews said that in 1989 there was a change in the statute that said if the City did not have a redevelopment commission in place by December 31 of that year the County could put TIF districts within the City. Andrews said the City rushed into putting through a redevelopment commission ordinance (D-600). Andrews stated that Commission has never been appointed by the Mayor or the Council, however that would now be an appropriate vehicle to do this type of financing. Andrews said the new Ordinance (D-720) would clean up what was passed in 1989. Andrews indicated the appointments were incorrect on the old ordinance and also had a number of spelling errors. Andrews said this new ordinance needs to be passed regardless. Under the new ordinance the Mayor has three appointments and the Council has two. The new Board or Commission would have to, by resolution, propose that this property be subject to the criteria of statute, in this case would be a rehabilitation. They have to adopt a plan and have a declaratory resolution establishing the plan. The plan then goes to the Carmel Plan Commission to determine if the resolution and the plan conform to the City's Master Plan. The Plan Commission then issues a written order, either approving, disapproving or amending this plan submitted by the Redevelopment Commission. The City Council then approves the Plan Commission's order before any work or any kind of rehabilitation can begin. Once the City approves the Plan Commission's order, the Redevelopment Commission is reguired to publish notice, hold a public hearing and then approves, rejects or amends what has been presented to it having gone through this entire process. Andrews said, once that occurs, the Council approves the Redevelopment Commission's actions and the Commission can proceed with a bond issue and a lease, financing arrangement. Andrews stated that bond counsel has recommended a lease, financing arrangement which is a similar arrangement that is now held between the City and the building corporations. The lease would be done through either the Redevelopment Commission or the building corporation depending upon how that is set up. All monies would be administered through a trustee as it is done now. Andrews said Merchants Bank is now the trustee on the other buildings and would be the same set up. Andrews said he is ready to get the appointments and bring back a Resolution and get moving or whatever the pleasure of the Council would be. It was Andrews understanding that he was to return to Council with the fastest and most direct way of getting this building up and running and with all the considerations to be made, this would be the best. Lonzo asked for Andrews to run through the steps again. Andrews again repeated the steps. Andrews said the only requirements to be a member of the Commission was that you had to be 18 years old and be a resident of Carmel. Andrews also said that the "plan" could incorporate a lot of the work the study committee had already done. Lonzo asked Potasnik if he thought the "plan" could or would end up before a committee of the Plan Commission. Potasnik stated he didn't know since this was a first of this kind. Potasnik said he would be having breakfast with Jeff Davis, President of the Commission in the morning and would check with him. Councilor Fleming was concerned that the Plan Commission would be approving or not approving a plan set out by elected officials and would be determining financing. Mayor Hancock stated that the Plan Commission would not be establishing financing but would only be checking to see if the "plan" conformed with the Master Plan. Councilor Lonzo asked that someone from Ice, Miller, Ryan and Donadio and someone from Umbaugh and Associates come to the next Council meeting and go over the details of this financing. Lonzo also asked for the timetable and specific areas of responsibility be set out in writing so everyone knows what each group's responsibility would be. Andrews stated he could arrange that. Lonzo and Andrews stated that perhaps the Mayor would consider calling a special meeting for this purpose if there was a conflict on the consultant's part in attending the August 19 Council meeting. Lonzo asked about the potential source of funds and if the 501C3 advantages would still be in place. Andrews said the lease would be restricted to city use or charitable organizations. CIVIC CENTRE USE/FINANCING PRESENTATION/TOM KENDALL: A formal presentation was made by Tom Kendall concerning Civic Centre use and financing. The entire text of Kendall's presentation is attached to these minutes. During the presentation, Kendall allowed Mayor-elect Ted Johnson to speak on the building. Johnson began by stating that he did not share Tom's enthusiasm for the building at all. Johnson said his comments were based entirely on what he believed and not what Kendall's proposal is tonight. Johnson stated it was his opinion that this building was not a good buy or a bargain in its present state. Johnson said the land could be beneficial but would not be cost effective. Johnson said he believed that if this building were on another piece of property, not located on the City's campus, it would not even be considered at tonight's meeting and went on to say that $1.1 million was too much money for the land. Johnson also believed that a real and positive interest has been shown that this community should provide certain additional services such as teen centers and senior citizen programs. Johnson said that a facility should be considered to serve a greater proportion of our needs such as a recreational center. Such a facility should be designed to fit the purpose rather that the purpose being backed into this building. Johnson did not like the idea of getting rid of some of the older buildings because he felt some of the older buildings could be used for some of the purposes the City is intending to use this building for. Johnson said he had 30 some years worth of construction knowledge and said he had a special interest when this building was being built. Johnson stated that if this project goes before the Plan Commission it does not meet the Comprehensive Plan and does not even meet building codes. Johnson said the Council must know that before they even begin financing procedures. Johnson went on to say it does not meet parking requirements nor height restrictions for the zoning district it is in. The building was allowed to be built like that for whatever purpose and got built because it was remodeled through the original front door and shot out from there. It was allowed to be built that way in order to avoid Plan Commission approval. This building has never been approved by the Plan Commission or the Department of Community Development for occupancy. It is an "add on" facility to begin with. Johnson said in his opinion the building was not well constructed. Johnson said it uses residential facilities up on the roof top and does not meeting the Comprehensive Plan because it doesn't hide the air conditioners. This building construction was a method of construction used in the late 50's and 60's and is a steel painted structure that causes a great deal of rust. This means additional cost for maintenance that you would not normally face. Johnson said the mere fact that this building sits on this campus is what makes it attractive and that it shares the same brick color but other than that it has no other common bond with the other buildings. Johnson said that building is not a $100 square foot built building but it does sit on an expensive piece of land that the City would like to have. Johnson said that by the time the building gets to where the Council wants it and done in the time frame the Council is proposing, the City will have spent an additional $100,000 in interest on the building making the project at least $1.2 million plus bond counsel plus attorney fees bringing the starting point to somewhere around $1.3 million. Johnson said he was not in favor of the building but will make it work if it is there when he and the new Council come to work next year. Johnson said he would sure love to save the taxpayers $100,000 because if we don't do this, then we don't have to pay the interest. Kendall then stated that he could not speak for all candidates running for Council and allowed Shep Cutler, Democratic County Chairman and Council candidate for District 3 speak to the issue. Kendall stated it is now clear that it does not matter who wins in the general election, the majority of the next Carmel City Council is opposed to the purchase of this building under the circumstances proposed by Councilor Lonzo and the use committee. Kendall stated that all of the candidates agree that if a workable plan can be presented that meets the criteria outlined earlier in the presentation, they would be willing to move forward with a bond issue and make the building available for the purposes the building use committee presented July 15. Shep Cutler, 1939 Franklin Boulevard, stated he represented all the democratic candidates for City Council and all candidates were opposed to the permanent bond issue for the purchase of the Carmel Civic Square Centre. Cutler said he felt it was unfair and unethical to commit the next Council with an irresponsible action of a lame duck Council. Cutler asked what was the hurry in rushing this thing through. Cutler stated he and the other democrats were not for or against the purchase of this building but strongly disagree with the way it is being forced upon them and the taxpayers of Carmel. Cutler said he and other democrats have asked if Carmel can afford such a luxury at this time and to date have received no answers. Cutler recommended the Council table this item and study it further. Kendall concluded his presentation by asking the Council only one thing. To not pay off the Bond Anticipation Note for this building in 1991 and asked for enough time for everyone to make the right decision for all the citizens of Carmel. (See attached for complete written text.) After Kendall's presentation the Mayor opened the floor for questions and/or discussion from the Council to Kendall. Councilor Lonzo began responding by saying he was frustrated after spending four months of meeting on a weekly basis and holding a well publicized town meeting where none of the candidates spoke and now after that was concluded to save it all up and not share it until tonight. Lonzo asked Dr. Story if Kendall was speaking for him. Story responded by saying it would be difficult for him to answer that question that would be satisfactory to the facts. He said anyone that knows him well enough knows no one ever speaks for him but he agreed with much of what Kendall said and did raise several of his concerns about the building. Lonzo asked Painchaud if Kendall spoke for him. Painchaud said he just walked in but had spoken with Kendall a few days earlier over the phone and basically concurred with what was said tonight. Lonzo said if what he was hearing was right was that everyone wanted the current Council to leave the building vacant and continue to pay interest so that new Council could study it some more when they took office. Kendall said you wouldn't necessarily have to leave it vacant. He said the Bond Anticipation Note allows for the renting of the building until permanent financing is arranged, however he thought it would be best to just leave it vacant. He said he figured it would only cost the taxpayers another $22,000 to leave it vacant but it beats losing hundreds of thousands of dollars later if the purchase of the building turns out to be a bad investment and perhaps ends up being sold at a later date. Kendall said he wanted to state that he did attend several of Lonzo's meetings and did speak at some of the meetings and did not believe it was ever a secret on how any of them felt on the building. Lonzo said he was also frustrated by the fact that during Kendall's campaign he stated that if elected he would sell the building and now he is before the Council with an alternate proposal for the financing of this building. Kendall said it was his opinion, along with the Mayor-elect that the from the beginning he thought the purchase of this building was a bad idea and if it were entirely up to him he would get rid of the building. Kendall said he didn't believe the Council would find the kind of long term participation that the committee believes it will have but by the same token Lonzo is the one with 1,200 names on the petition and he is the one that had many people speak in favor of the building and perhaps he was wrong. Kendall said he was willing to come to the Council in the spirit of compromise. Kendall said he was willing to listen and to work with the Council on this issue to try and find a workable plan to help the teen center, the senior citizen center, the cultural center and all these other things to have a place in the Civic Center. Kendall said if the building was cost neutral to the taxpayers of Carmel and the citizens didn't have to pay anything out of their pockets then it would be irrelevant whether the City keeps or sells the building. Lonzo then questioned Kendall on the "cost neutral" aspect of Kendall's plan. Lonzo asked Kendall at the end of 20 years, how much would the taxpayers have paid for that building under his plan. Kendall said that assuming the building stayed 100~ occupied for 20 years then the cost would be nothing. Lonzo then asked who would own the building. Kendall replied the City. Lonzo asked Kendall how that could be cost neutral if the City ended up with the building and paid nothing for it. Kendall said they would be paying for space anywhere else and someone else owns the building. He said these groups would not cease to exist without space stating they would have to rent space somewhere. Lonzo asked Kendall about disposing of the old buildings owned by the City. Kendall said his stand was quite clear and that was to not get rid of them. He said they are owned by the City and wouldn't make a dent in the price of Civic Square Centre but rehabilitated they might just fit the use Lonzo's committee had determined and wouldn't cost millions of dollars. Kendall said their real value came from them being used by the citizens since they were already paid for but their real true market value in real estate terms was probably nothing. Lonzo asked if Kendall had consulted teens and senior citizens on establishing a charter member fee of $50 for teens and $100 for senior citizens or was this just a number he chose. Kendall used a figure based on what, he felt and was his own recommendation of less that $1.00 per week per year for teens and less than $2.00 per week per year for senior citizens. This would establish their sincerity in the project. Lonzo said he felt there was a difference between $1.00 per week and an up-front lump sum payment of $50. He said he doubted very many teens and/or senior citizens based on their income could afford such an up-front fee. Lonzo said that if Kendall would have calculated the percentage of the $100 to a senior citizen's income and applied the same percentage to Kendall's income he would find that fee to be pretty steep. Lonzo asked Kendall if he wasn't building into this proposal a "scheme" in order for this center to fail. Kendall said absolutely not and thought his plan had a "scheme" built into it to prove it could work because if there isn't something where the teenagers are willing to commit, up-front that they are going to use this center then it is very easy to sign a petition. Kendall said he did not come to the Council to vent his frustration on numbers Lonzo had presented but stated he had also heard from a number of teenagers who said they had no idea what they were signing when they signed Lonzo's petition. Kendall said parents or teens who say they can justify $175 for tennis shoes or $90 million for a school shouldn't have a problem finding $50 to support a teen center once a year. Kendall said that was just his opinion. Kendall said this was why everyone needed more time to study these proposals and that his plan needed review and discussion just like Lonzo's. Lonzo said compared to the number of hours his committee spent, how many hours did Kendall spend on his plan and gathering data and how many hours would Kendall and all the people he said he represents spend listening to the public. Kendall said he would spend as many as it took and was willing to make the commitment. Kendall said he has demonstrated his support by attending or having a representative at all of the Council meetings and most of the subcommittee meetings over the past year and they too have listened to the people. Lonzo took exception to Kendall's statement about listening to the public by saying that if Kendall had been listening that only two people spoke out against the building and those two people's names were Kendall and Quinn. Lonzo asked where all the people were who were against this project. Kendall stated he chose not to fill the room with people to attend a "rah-rah" session and said he was trying to offer a compromise proposal in a business-like manner and ask for the Council's consideration to the next City Council on permanent financing. Lonzo asked for a copy of Kendall's written comments to be included with the minutes. At this point much discussion between Councilor Lonzo, Kendall, and Councilor Adams took place with reference to a memo passed out the Council from Tom Kendall prior to the start of the meeting. Lonzo asked Kendall to clarify the second to the last sentence in the memo that stated the only people who might be served by rushing this project is the bank and certain politicians. Lonzo asked Kendall who he was referring to. Kendall stated not Lonzo. Councilor Adams asked him to name the politicians he was referring to in the memo. Kendall replied that he was referring to the Mayor for one but that the memo was something he did on his own and it did not represent anyone else's viewpoint but his and it was not a part of the agenda and was for not for discussion but only for their consideration. Councilor Lonzo asked Kendall if he supported the concept of a teen and senior citizen center. Kendall stated he was. Lonzo asked Kendall if he conceptually thought that all recreational facilities should be cost neutral. Kendall stated not necessarily. Kendall suggested that is way he proposed the City and the Township to make matching grants to support the centers. Kendall stated he was not opposed to using tax money to support a teen and/or senior citizen center. Lonzo asked Kendall if he thought the rent should cover the entire cost of the Centre plus cost of bonds and interest. Kendall stated he thought it should be done that way so that people living within the City limits of Carmel don't end up paying for the entire teen center and senior citizen. Kendall stated that if they pay rent out of one pocket and put it into the other pocket then 38% of that cost will be paid for by the Township. Lonzo asked Kendall if he felt the Carmel Clay Parks and Recreation Board should be the proper vehicle to administer this centre. Kendall said he believe a Parks and Recreation Board should administer the centre. Lonzo asked Kendall if he now understood the fear of the current Council when they hear from someone on the front row who says they have enough votes to get rid of the Parks Board come January 1st. Kendall said no one who has said that has said there will not be a Parks Board. Kendall said there maybe a City Parks Department or a City Parks and Recreation Board but the new Council will have the control over the parks and recreation within the City. Lonzo asked how that will include the township. Kendall stated they will pay similar to the way they pay for fire protection and zoning. Kendall asked Lonzo how many members of the Council attended any of the Civic Square Centre Use Committee meetings and listened to the public. Lonzo replied none and stated that is why the Council formed the committee. Lonzo stated as a final note that nothing Kendall presented tonight conflicted with the previous agenda item and wanted to proceed. ORDINANCE C-158/SECOND READING/ANNEXATION 4207 AND 4443 EAST 131ST STREET/FINAL ACTION: Andrews stated this annexation ordinance just needed to have a voting district added and that was complete. Councilor Potasnik moved to suspend the rules and act on C-158 tonight. The motion was seconded by Adams. All members voted aye. Motion carried. Hancock called for the question. All members voted aye. C-158 passed unanimously. PARKS JOINDER AGREEMENT: Judi Jacobs, President of the Carmel Board of Parks and Recreation presented the joinder agreement between the City of Carmel and Clay Township to the Council as unanimously approved by the Parks Board. Jacobs urged the Council to approve this agreement so the joint board could move forward in providing parks and recreation for the entire Carmel-Clay community. Lonzo asked Andrews to review the funding for this joint venture. Lonzo stated there was much concern during the campaign about this Board being a group that has no controls. Lonzo said he understood it but didn't think a few people out there did. Andrews said the funding is provided by the City. The Township and the City has a percentage that each contributes. The City puts in 62% and the Township 38% and those percentages are based on assessed valuation. The budget is funded and approved by both the City and the Township. If a bond issue is requested that has to go through the Township approval and the City~s approval. Andrews said this is not an entity that is off on its own levying taxes or issuing bonds. Andrews pointed out that under this agreement you eliminate a level of tax. Andrews said right now with a Parks Board or Department you have three levels of tax, the township, the city and the county but under this agreement it allows for and requires the trustee to abate any tax assessment against the municipality. Andrews said that at the next Council meeting he will be presenting a resolution to send on to John Hensel requesting him to abate the city as it relates to a township levy. Councilor Lonzo moved to approve the joinder agreement. The motion was seconded by Councilor Adams. All members voted aye. Motion carried. REQUEST TO ADVERTISE FOR ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATIONS: The Mayor presented three requests for additional appropriations. Local Roads and Streets Fund for traffic signals, City share of $3,336.51 and the City's share for engineering on the 96th Street project in the amount of $12,744.50. Cumulative Capital Sewer Fund: Phase II of Downtown Carmel Storm Sewer Project $403,000 Councilor Adams directed the clerk-treasurer to advertise for these additional appropriations. The motion was seconded by Councilor Lonzo. All members voted aye. Motion carried. CONMUNICATIONS CENTER CLAIMS: Councilor Fleming moved to approved the following claims from the Council budget for Communications Center equipment. The motion was seconded by Councilor Lonzo. All members voted aye. Motion carried. Hertz Furniture $ 112.25 General Electric $ 381. 00 Ace Hardware $ 20.95 Console Systems $16,306.60 Tom Allebrandi-Travel $ 892.64 The clerk-treasurer questioned Fleming on paying for travel expenses out of equipment. Potasnik asked if it couldn't be paid for out of equipment since the expenses were for testing on 800 Mhz radio system. The clerk stated there wasn't a difference in this expense for training on this equipment as opposed to training any other employee on computers. Travel could not be capitalized nor shown on an equipment inventory and should be charged to travel. She suggested the bill be paid from the travel expense in the Council budget and then a transfer made from equipment to travel to reimburse the travel account. Councilor Lonzo asked the clerk if she would prepare the necessary transfer resolution for the next Council meeting. She stated she would do that. COMMUNICATIONS CENTER TECHNICAL COMMITTEE REPORT/CCTV SYSTEM REQUEST FOR FUNDING: Major Nibarger of the Carmel Police Department presented a request for funding for a CCTV system for the Civic Square Complex. He asked for the funding to first come from the building corporation and if they did not have any money left from the bond issue then he asked the Council to consider an additional appropriation. Mayor-elect Ted Johnson spoke to the issue and said for safety reasons this should be a high priority item. Johnson said he has asked for an accounting from the building corporation and has yet to receive it and asked Andrews again for a detailed accounting for money spent on the two buildings. Johnson explained this TV system would be used to secure the court, the parking lots, the Council chambers, etc. Both Johnson and Nibarger both felt this was very important. Andrews asked for a specific list of equipment needed and costs to be sent to the building corporation and a priority of importance to be attached to that list. Johnson said this equipment was always on the priority list. Potasnik stated he remembered it being on the priority list but it was somewhere near the bottom of the list. It was determined by a consensus of opinion that the building corporation should be petitioned first for funds and then if no money was available that Nibarger should return to the Council for an additional appropriation. ORDINANCE D-720/REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION: Councilor Lonzo moved to introduce ordinance D-720 and suspend the rules for reading of the same. The motion was seconded by Councilor Adams. All members voted aye. Potasnik asked Andrews if the basic need for this ordinance was to take care of scriveners errors. Andrews stated yes plus there were some changes in paragraph 3. Councilor Adams moved to suspend the rules and act on Ordinance D- 720 tonight. The motion was seconded by Ogle. All members voted aye. Motion carried. Mayor Hancock called for the question. All members voted aye. Ordinance D-720 passed unanimously. Clerk-Treasurer Jones asked if Ordinance D-720 had been added to the agenda properly since material or copies of the ordinance had not been distributed prior to the start of the meeting. Councilor Lonzo said the Council suspended the rules. The clerk asked if all of the rules had been suspended. Lonzo replied that all of the rules for the Council had been suspended. There being no further business before the Council the meeting was duly adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Approved, ATTEST: Alternate Proposal For The Financing of Carmel Square Centre SEE ORIGINAL MINUTES