HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCM-03-21-94CARMEL CITY COUNCIL
MEETING MINUTES
MARCH 21, 1994
7:00 P.M.
CARMEL CITY HALL/ONE CIVIC SQUARE
The regular meeting of the Carmel City Council was called to order
by Council President Pro Tempore Luci Snyder in the absence of
Mayor Ted Johnson. Council members in attendance were Frank
Fleming, James Quinn, Alan Potasnik, Tom Kendall, Christopher
Painchaud and Tim Story. Clerk-Treasuer Susan W. Jones and City
Attorney Gordon Byers were also in attendance.
The invocation was given by Councilor Quinn followed by the Pledge
of Allegiance.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES/REGULAR MEETING OF MARCH 7, 1994 AND SPECIAL
Councilor Quinn made a motion to
JOIN MEETING OF MARCH 8, 1994:
approve the minutes of the regular meeting of March 7, 1994. The
motion was seconded by Councilor Kendall.
Councilor Kendall made a motion to add the following statements to
the special joint meeting of March 8, 1994.
"Mr. Kendall discussed the outcome of the Indiana University POLIS
report and the importance of the impact of that report on the
future of this community, the school systems and the importance of
the cooperation between the school board and the city council in
making a determination, the right determination as to the future of
our community, based on this most important decision."
Councilor Potasnik seconded the motion to amend. All members voted
aye. Motion carried.
Councilor Snyder stated she had a change in the regular meeting
minutes of March 7, 1994. Snyder pointed out that on page 2 there
was no vote recorded on ordinance D-1055.
Councilor Quinn made a motion postpone the approval of the minutes
until the clerk has had an opportunity to review the tape. There
was no second on the motion.
Councilor Potasnik made a motion to approve the special joint
meeting of March 8, 1994. The motion was seconded by Councilor
Quinn. All members voted aye. Motion carried.
Dick Frost, citizen of
CITIZENS WHO WISH TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL:
Stonehedge, addressed the Council on the matter of cancellation of
a city council meeting. Mr. Frost called for a better way of
communicating the cancellation of a meeting with the public. Mr.
Frost also stated that he was not in favor of the Council
sponsoring a debate for school board candidates because he felt it
was not a function of the council. Frost called for the Clerk-
Treasurer to deny all claims for expenses for the debate.
Councilor Kendall made a motion to approve the following
CLAIMS:
claims:
Claims dated 3/04/94 in the amount of $ 382,703.93
Claims dated 3/04/94 in the amount of $5,000,000.00
Claims dated 3/09/94 in the amount of $ 683,189.36
Claims dated 3/14/94 in the amount of $ 38,413.10
Claims dated 3/09/94 in the amount of $ 2,339.00
The motion to approve the claims was seconded by Councilor
Painchaud.
Councilor Snyder relinquished the chair to the Clerk-Treasurer so
she could participate in the discussion of the claims.
Councilor Snyder questioned the Clerk-Treasurer on why she spent
$68 to have her locks changed on her office and $500 to have a
security check done.
The Clerk-Treasurer said that if Councilor Snyder wanted to discuss
the claims in detail she would be glad to do so and for to call her
and they would have the actual claims in front of her. The Clerk
stated she had a budget appropriation for these items and the claim
was in order and she could vote to not approve or to approve the
claim.
Snyder continued to question why the Clerk would spend this money
when the police department does these services for free and Snyder
went on to say she already knew what this was about because she
talked to the police chief.
Councilor Quinn then stated to Councilor Snyder that he was aware
of security problems within the Clerk's office and felt the Clerk
had a right to protect her office. Quinn said Jones was the only
elected official that can be charged if there was anything missing
or is somehow taken out of her control and under those
circumstanes, whatever the Clerk thinks is an adequate security
arrangement, he didn't have a problem with it.
Snyder suggested that perhaps Jones suspected the police department
as being responsible for the security problems and because she
didn't trust the police department that is why she paid someone
outside of the department to do the work rather than have them do
it for free. Quinn stated Snyder could suggest that but he wasn't
going to.
Jones then stated it was safe to say there has been more than one
problem with security. Jones said she didn't understand why Snyder
would have a discussion with Roger Conn as opposed to having a
discussion with her. Jones said if Snyder wanted to know what was
going on in her office she should talk to her directly and not to
Roger Conn.
Snyder stated she talked with Conn because he was the police chief
and was in charge of security. Jones stated Conn was not in charge
of security in her office, that she was an elected official and was
in charge of $23,000,000 and if there was a problem she was going
to take care of it and Snyder didn't have to vote for the claim.
Snyder then said she if there was some reason that the Clerk didn't
want to use the free services of the police department that she
ought to tell everyone what it is.
Councilor Kendall stated he was surprised that Snyder questioned
these two claims because in the 2 1/4 years Snyder had been in
office she had yet to review any claims and suggested that Snyder's
motivation behind questioning these two claims was political.
Kendall said if this claim would have been submitted by the Judge,
it probably would have never been discussed.
Kendall said Jones did not have to answer to the Council or to the
Mayor but only had to answer to the voters who elected her.
Kendall went on to say that Jones has fiscal responsibility for $23
million of taxpayer money and has the right to assure that her
computers and the records of the City are in tact and are secure at
any given time. Kendall asked for the full support of the Council
for this appropriation.
Snyder then stated she, along with other members of the Council,
had received a letter from the Clerk-Treasurer stating she was
having her locks changed and that she was talking to the police
chief about other things and asked if there was a break-in.
Jones said she never sent the Council a letter about changing her
locks but rather sent a memo to the Mayor because he was in charge
of cleaning the building and it was the Mayor who decided to make
her business the business of the Council and distributed copies of
her letter to him.
Councilor Potasnik finally stated that the Clerk had a line item
within her budget and that the Council had allocated funds for that
specific line item and the dollars are there for the Clerk to spend
however she saw fit to spend those dollars. Potasnik said that the
Clerk must have felt it was important enough for her to do this and
the funds are there and that is the bottom line.
Jones called for the question. Councilor Snyder voted nay. All
other members voted aye. Jones questioned Snyder on voting nay to
all the claims submitted for approval and Snyder said she only
wanted to voted against the two claims submitted by the Clerk.
Jones stated that wasn't the motion. Snyder then abstained.
Park Board: Sam Rinker of the Carmel Parks
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
Board gave a brief report on the progress of the Flowing Well Park
and passed out the Park's annual report to Council members. Rinker
also said the Park's Board was beginning to work on next year's
budget.
Quinn warned Rinker that members of the Park Board who are
presently serving on campaign committees should be aware of the
fall out from supporting certain candidates and campaigning
shouldn't be done by Park Board members on Park Board time. Quinn
asked Rinker to deliver that message to the Park Board.
Finance Committee: Councilor Snyder stated the City had recently
passed a new door-to-door ordinance limiting hours for
solicitation, requires an identification badge, a background check,
a bond and payment of a fee. Snyder then stated the Hoosier
Enviornmental Council has recently sent a letter to the Clerk-
Treasurer asking for exemption from the requirements of the
ordinance. Snyder said that in light of this letter and with what
just took place in Carmel that they would not be exempted from the
ordinance.
Councilor Quinn wanted to let the citizens of Carmel know that
money being solicited by the Hoosier Environmental Council is going
to be used to sue the City of Carmel because they do not wish to
follow a city ordinance. Quinn said the Council is very firm in
defending their ordinances.
Councilor Potasnik said the ordinance recently passed by the
Council was a revised ordinance that he drafted and was eventually
passed back in 1983 and that he had worked very hard of this door-
to-door ordinance and that the Council takes their job very
seriously. Potasnik said it was up to the Council to enforce its
own ordinance.
Potasnik stated that all solicitors should be wearing an
identification badge and if a solicitor is knocking on the door
after 8:00 p.m. the resident should call the police department.
Potasnik said he resented this group threatening a law suit.
Councilor Story agreed with his fellow Councilors and read part of
the text from the letter sent to the Clerk-Treasurer by the Hoosier
Environmental which stated in part that the HEC was not seeking a
test case on canvassing but would do so based on the actions of the
elected officials. Story felt this was a question of who was going
to make the law, the legislators or the courts. Story said he felt
these people wanted the courts to make laws rather than the
legislative body and highly objected to this bold attempt to extort
from the City of Carmel, their idea of what our laws should be.
Story said the ordinance was constructed upon what the Council
thought represented the concensus of people in the community and
that being the case, to suggest that some outside, not-for-profit
company should be dictating changes obviates the entire
constitutional structure upon which our government was founded.
DRAFT OF CONTRACT FOR FIRE AND ZONING AGREEMENTS WITH CLAY
Gordon Byers passed
TOWNSHIP/CHANGES IN PROPOSED ORDINANCE D-1042:
out a revised Ordinance, D-1042 concerning fees collected for
ambulance services. Byers said the one change that was made by the
township was to allow for the expenditure of these monies for other
things besides capital expenditures.
Quinn questioned why there was no annual financial reporting date
as requested. Byers said that stipulation was only done on the
fire and zoning contracts.
Jones said all the revenue comes from Riverview Hospital and is
marked appropriately. The total revenue received from Riverview
Hospital is still sitting in the General Fund and has not been
spent to date.
Township Trustee, John Hensel, thought this was a good idea.
Byers said he was very close to getting a final draft of the fire
and zoning contracts.
SECOND READING/ORDINANCE D-1058/ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATION/CCD
Councilor Painchaud made a motion to approve
FUND/$165,000:
Ordinance D-1058. The motion was seconded by Councilor Kendall.
Councilor Snyder called for the question. All members voted aye.
Ordinance D-1058 passed unanimously.
Councilor
SECOND READING/ORDINANCE D-1064/VACATION OF PUBLIC WAY:
Quinn moved to approve Ordinance D-1064. The motion was seconded
by Councilor Story.
Councilor Story stated he thought it was a bad idea to give away
land but in this instance, the City was not taking a very big risk.
Councilor Kendall moved to amend the ordinance to include a new
paragraph stating the petitioner waives all rights, title and
interest to any reversionary rights from adjoining, abutting or
adjacent property which could be acquired from the vacated parcel.
The motion to amend was seconded by Councilor Painchaud. All
members voted aye. Motion carried.
Councilor Quinn said he hoped there would be some direction from
the Mayor and/or attorney on this matter and there had not been any
but strongly felt the City should not be in the business of giving
away any of its assets. Quinn said there was a mechanism in place
through state statute that would allow this lady to buy the land
rather than have the City give it to her.
Councilor Painchaud agreed but said it would probably cost more to
get an appraisal done than the actual cost of the land.
Councilor Kendall said he appreciated Quinn's position but he drove
by the land in question and said this parcel in was essentially
this lady's driveway and would, in fact, cost more to have it
appraised than the actual value of the land.
Councilor Potasnik called for the question. Councilors Quinn and
Potasnik voted nay. All other members voted aye. Ordinance D-1064
passed unanimously.
PUBLIC HEARING/FIRST READING ORDINANCE D-1062/ADDITIONAL
APPROPRIATION/CCS FUND/$10,000/STORM SEWER AND MAINTENANCE:
Councilor Quinn moved to introduce Ordinance D-1062. Councilor
Painchaud seconded the motion.
Councilor Snyder opened the meeting to the public and called for
any questions and/or objections. Hearing none, the public hearing
was closed.
Snyder asked if any Council members had any back-up on this because
she did not know what this appropriation was for other than the
stated line item of storm sewer and maintenace.
Councilor Potasnik asked Gordon Byers if he knew anything about
this appropriation and wondered if it was a specific project.
Potasnik asked if the Mayor had left him anything on this since he
did not give any back-up to Luci or any other Council member.
Byers stated he did not know what this appropriation was for.
Ordinance D-1062 will receive a second reading on April 18, 1994.
FIRST READING/ORDINANCE D-1065/AN ORDINANCE ESTABLISHING A 25 MPH
Councilor Quinn moved to introduce Ordinance D-
IN SCHOOL ZONES:
1065. Councilor Potasnik seconded the motion.
Councilor Quinn gave a brief explanation of the proposed ordinance
and stated the goal is to make the signage in school zones
consistent. Quinn said this was becoming an enforcement issue
especially since citizens are using land adjacent to the schools as
parks.
Councilor Potasnik summarized the content of the proposed ordinance
by saying this law would make the speed limits and the signage
uniform.
Councilor Quinn said he was seeking the support of the Park Board,
township board and school corporation. After obtaining their
support, he would be looking to take this ordinance to the county
so they will get the signs posted in those schools that are not in
the City limits.
Kendall thought this ordinance only applied to those schools within
the City limits.
Ordinance D-1065 will be scheduled for a second reading at the
April 18, 1994 meeting.
Councilor Quinn made a
FIRST READING/ORDINANCE D-1061/HOLIDAY PAY:
motion to remove this from the agenda. The motion was seconded by
Councilor Painchaud. All members voted aye. Motion carried.
DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE SCHOOL BOARD CANDIDATES DEBATE SPONSORED BY
Councilor Story moved to adopt Resolution
THE CITY COUNCIL:
CC-3-21-94-1. The motion was seconded by Councilor Quinn.
Story gave a summary of the resolution. One of the main reasons
Story wanted to host the debate was because he felt the Council
Chambers offered the best facility and the best audio and visual
equipment for taping purposes.
The debate would be scheduled for April 11, 1994 at 7:00 P.M. and
would be hosted by the Council and the Township Board if they so
desired.
Councilor Quinn spoke in favor of the resolution but not without
the recognition of potential risk to the Council. Quinn said it
was the same type of area he spoke about when he talked with Sam
Rinker of the Park Board concerning inappropriate behavior in
support of a particular candidate.
Quinn felt the purpose of this debate was to better inform the
public and in turn, the voters would make better choices on
election day.
Kendall went on to say that alot of money had been spent on this
facility and is hoping to allow people to have access to the
government and public channel on cable television. Kendall spoke
in favor of using this debate to give the people of the community a
forum in which they can see a quality debate among candidates
without having to leave the comfort of their homes.
Kendall expressed the idea of including all races that Carmel
voters would be voting on in the debate.
Councilor Paincaud spoke against the resolution not because he
didn't think the idea of educating the voters was not a good idea
but there were 3 more forums scheduled before the May primary.
Paincaud said he thought the reality of the debate will be the
public's perception of the Council's endorcement or sponsorship of
this particular debate.
Councilor Snyder thought is was a great idea and said she wished
she would have thought of it herself but had a problem with the
sponsorship.
After much discussion Councilor Quinn made a motion to amend the
resolution to strike the words "Carmel City Council" in paragraph 1
and replace it with the name "Dr. Timothy J. Story", to delete
paragraph 2 entirely and to strike the words "Carmel City Council"
in paragraph 4 and replace them with the name "Dr. Timothy J.
Story", to strike the word "participating" in paragraph 5, Section
(b) and to insert the words "including the Mayor, Clerk-Treasurer
and Board of Public Works members" after the words "ticketed
guests" and to insert the words to "allow a debate by Dr. Timothy
J. Story" after the words "hereby resolve to" in the last
paragraph.
The motion was seconded by Councilor Story.
Councilor Potasnik was not in favor of limiting the attendance by
issuing tickets and didn't see the need for a resolution because if
Dr. Story wanted to sponsor a debate he could simply go to the
Board of Public Works and get permission to use the room. Potasnik
said the facility is available to anyone, for that matter, that
wanted to sponsor such a debate but felt it was inappropriate for
the Council to do so.
Councilor Quinn then stated that no one needed permission from the
Board of Public Works to use Council Chambers for such an event
that was endorced by the Council because it was, afterall, the
Council's own meeting room and the Council is the body that
appropriates the BPW's funds.
After a very lengthy discussion concerning the amendment, Councilor
Quinn withdrew the motion and Dr. Story agreed to withdraw his
second.
Councilor Painchaud then suggested that perhaps the Carmel Cable TV
Advisory Board could sponsor the debate as they were a non-
partisian, appointed group and it would be difficult for them to
show any kind of a hidden agenda that would be able to rear it's
head in this thing.
Councilor Snyder suggested the Council could send the Carmel Cable
TV Advisory Board a letter and ask them to sponsor this debate
rather than doing a resolution.
Kendall, as a member of the advisory board, thought this didn't fit
the charter of the advisory board.
Kendall suggested that a letter could be forumated to send to the
advisory board and perhaps could be brought back for discussion on
April 11, 1994. Quinn said that meeting was for claims approval
only.
Councilor Paincaud then moved to postpone this item until the
April 11, 1994 meeting. The motion was seconded by Council
Kendall. Councilor's Story, Potasnik, Quinn and Fleming voted nay.
The motion was defeated.
Councilor Painchaud moved to amend the resolution in paragraph 4 to
make this resolution contingent upon the acceptance of the Cable TV
Advisory Board accepting the challenge. The motion was seconded by
Councilor Quinn.
After more discussion Councilor Painchaud amended his amendment and
suggest that be the members of the Carmel TV Advisory committee,
individually rather than the committee itself.
Kendall then said he wasn't in favor of the amendment to the
amendment because one of the members of the advisory board was a
member of the school board.
Councilor Story then seconded the amendment to the amendment and
called for the question.
All members voted aye. All members voted aye.
Councilor Story made a motion to suspend the rules and allow the
public to speak to this issue. The motion was seconded by
Councilor Kendall.
Dick Frost spoke to the Council and informed them that only 31% of
the registered voters voted in the last election.
Josephine McCormick identified herself as a member of the League of
Women Voters and stated that under normal circumstances she would
need to go back and speak to the members of her group before
addressing an issue such as this but felt she needed to say
something to this issue.
McCormick said the league wants to have informed voters and
comended the Council's concern but stated there was a forum on the
24th for this purpose and would be televised at least 2 times. She
cautioned the Council on the perception of them sponsoring such a
school board debate.
Carl Johnson of Carmel Meadows aplauded Dr. Story for his
resolution and asked the Council to continue its effort to go ahead
and do wrong for all the right reasons.
Councilor Paincaud read the amendment one more time in order to get
the correct wording. The amendment to paragraph 4 in Resolution
CC-3-21-94-1 would read, "The Carmel City Council shall appoint the
Carmel TV Advisory Board Committee to supervise and structure this
debate."
Councilor Snyder called for the question. Councilors Quinn, Story,
Painchaud and Kendall voted aye. Councilors Snyder, Potasnik and
Fleming voted nay. Resolution CC-3-21-94-1 passed by a majority
vote.
REQUEST TO ADVERTISE FOR ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATION TO HAMILTON
Councilor Snyder made a motion to request
COUNTY HUMANE SOCIETY:
this appropriation. The motion was seconded by Councilor Story.
Councilor Snyder then relinquished the chair and spoke from the
audience in support of the additional appropriation.
Snyder eventually called for an appropriation of $8,000 for 1994
and to only support the Humane Society for 5 years with a review of
their operations each year.
Councilor Quinn objected to this proposal stating that back in
August the Council voted to not hear all this information about the
Humane Society unless it was in the form of a resolution and/or an
ordinance.
The clerk stated the additional appropriation would be brought back
in ordinance form at the next meeting and would also be a public
hearing.
Councilor Quinn said he objected to this request for funding
because the County already donated money to the Humane Society and
a second contribution would result in doubt taxation to the
residents of Carmel.
Councilor Painchaud support Councilor Snyder's efforts and made a
motion to advertise for an $8,000 contribution to the Humane
Society for the purpose of contractural services for accepting
animals. The motion was seconded by Councilor Story.
Painchaud said Noblesville had a contract with the Humane Society
for specific services and he suggest Carmel could do the same.
Painchaud also said that despite the contribution of $8,000 it
won't address the real problem of animal control.
Painchaud then said he would like to take on the task of getting an
animal control person in Carmel and solicited the assistance of
Councilor Snyder. Painchaud said he had three different avenues to
present to the Council and would do so as early as the next Council
meeting.
Councilor Quinn again stated he thought this was a township and/or
a county issue.
Councilor Kendall then read a 7 page summary of his findings and
his opinion concerning the funding and possible future funding from
Carmel for the Hamilton County Humane Society. After the reading,
Kendall stated copies could be obtained from the Clerk-Treasurer's
office.
Councilor Story objected to all the discussion concerning this
request to advertise because there was no first reading and all the
rules concerning the way business of the Council is normally
conducted was being ignored. Story reminded members of the Council
that there have been other times when people showed up to speak
and/or the Council wished to discuss a matter of some sort on the
first reading and were told they would have to come back for the
second reading and/or the public hearing.
Councilor Snyder took the blame for this because she said she
didn't have the people fill out cards prior to the start of the
meeting and felt it was only fair to let them speak to the item
now.
Councilor Kendall then moved to suspend the rules and allow the
public to speak. Councilor Quinn seconded the motion but limited
the public's comments to 1 minute.
John Schuler said the Humane Society had sent out 700 cards and
received 465 of them back and only received 3 no comments.
Schuler said he wasn't in favor of a user fee. He said he pays
taxes for schools and his kids are all out of school and he said he
didn't vote to put up a gazebo out in the back and the highway was
about the only thing he pays a user fee on right now.
Dick Frost said there was a new law effective July 1st concerning
animal control and nobody is following the law.
Story called for the vote. Councilor's Story, Painchaud, Fleming,
and Snyder voted aye. Councilor's Kendall, Potasnik and Quinn
voted nay. Motion carried.
REQUEST TO ADVERTISE FOR DONATION TO HAMILTON COUNTY SENIOR
Councilor Potasnik made a motion to advertise for an
CITIZENS:
additional appropriation in the amount of $6,000 for a donation to
the Hamilton County Senior Citizens. The motion was seconded by
Councilor Story.
Councilor Quinn stated he thought this was discussed at last
summer's budget meeting and it was decided the township make the
contribution on behalf of the citizens of Carmel. Quinn said it
was the same issue as the Humane Society.
After much discussion Councilor Potasnik made a motion to table
this item until the facts could be determined on the contribution
from the township. The motion was seconded by Councilor Story.
All members voted aye. Motion carried.
Councilor Quinn asked and received a
DISPLAY BOARDS FOR CITY HALL:
concensus from the Council to get prices on display boards for use
in City Hall. Councilor Snyder said there may be some display
boards available with the Woodbrook School remodeling and she would
check into it for the Council.
A formal
PHYSICAL RESOURCE SURVEY/PHASE I/FIRE STATION LOCATION:
presentation was given by Richard I. Pohlman and Janet Daskalos on
the physical resource survey for the location of a new fire
station. Copies of the survey and the presentation are on file
with the Clerk-Treasurer's office. Copies of the survey were also
supplied to the township.
There being no further business before the Council the meeting was
duly adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
___________________________________
Susan W. Jones, Clerk-Treasurer
Approved,
____________________________________
Presiding Officer
ATTEST:
____________________________________
Susan W. Jones, Clerk-Treasurer