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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 02-07-06 City of Carmel CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE MINUTES TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 2006 LOCATION: CAUCUS ROOMS TIME: 6:00 P.M. CARMEL CITY HALL DOORS OPEN AT 5:30 P.M. ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, IN 46032 Those Present: Representing the Committee: Dan Dutcher Wayne Haney Kevin Heber Rick Ripma Carol Schleif Representing the Department: Angie Conn Adrienne Keeling Of Counsel: John Molitor The Subdivision Committee will meet to consider the following items: Rick Ripma called the meeting to order at 6:06 p.m. He announced to the Committee that this was the meeting where the Committee would have to nominate a chair for the Subdivision Committee. Dan Dutcher nominated Rick Ripma to serve as the chairperson for the Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee. Wayne Haney seconded the motion. Page 1 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417 February 7, 2006 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda 1.Docket No. 05110024 ADLS Amend: Game Room – Signage The applicant seeks approval for a new wall sign. The site is located at 12345 Old Meridian St. and is zoned OM/O. Filed by Brenda Owens for Sign Crafters, Inc. Present for the Petitioner: Jim Wheeler with Coots, Henke, and Wheeler at 255 E. Carmel Drive Carmel, IN 46032, and John Kirk with John Kirk Furniture at 12345 Old Meridian Carmel, IN 46032. Petitioner’s Presentation: He said that they are here to gain approval for a sign on a portion of the Kirk Furniture complex. He passed around a drawing of the signage proposed. He said that sign crafters designed the sign and it exceeds the 32 square feet that is permitted. He said that the sign would have to be amended to meet the 32 square feet. John Kirk added that about five years ago they started a vision called the Game Room that sells pool tables, video games, etc. He said that they are putting it in a separate location and are severing it to be a separate corporation. He said that the signage would be for that. He said that the sign faces Old Meridian. He said that the colors are in keeping with the colors that are in the logo. Angie Conn said that the Department requested that the colors match the architectural details of the building. She said that, seeing that the colors are coordinated with the logo, the Department understands that that can’t always be accomplished. She said that the Department would like an engineering diagram of the sign showing the electrical work, the cabinet, and the neon lights within the cabinet. She said that, other than that, the Department recommends approval by the Committee. Jim Wheeler said that he assumes that the Department’s recommendation for approval would be conditioned upon the sign meeting the 32 square feet requirement. Angie Conn responded that 32 square feet would be conforming. Rick Ripma called for Committee comments. He clarified that the petitioners would make the sign 32 square feet and that the colors match the logo. He asked how the sign would be lit. John Kirk said that it would be backlit. Dan Dutcher asked how the sign would lay on the roofline. Jim Wheeler said that there would be some brackets behind it to make it sit perpendicular to the ground. Carol Schleif asked if the wind blowing behind it would know it off the roof. John Kirk said that with the engineering of the brackets, he would hope that it would not get blown off. Wayne Haney asked if it was a box with a Plexiglas front. John Kirk responded that it was. Page 2 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417 February 7, 2006 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda Wayne Haney said that the company building the sign could shape the box, so that it would conform to the angle of the roof but still have a perpendicular sign face. Dan Dutcher made formal motion to grant docket number 05110024 ADLS Amend: Game Room- approval with the three conditions that 1.) The Department receives an electrical Signage engineered diagram, 2.) Conformance to the signage restriction of 32 square feet, 3.) Utilization of the oblong box installation technique with a flush mount and a perpendicular sign face. Wayne Haney seconded the motion. Motion was approved 5-0. …END… Angie Conn announced to the Committee that Item #3 had requested to be heard last on the agenda. 2.Docket No. 06010026 ADLS Amend: CMC Properties Business Park The applicant seeks to build the second of three office buildings in theCMC Properties Business Park. The request is an amendment of an earlier, approved ADLS. The site is located at 13295 Meridian Corners and is zoned B-5. Filed by E. Davis Coots of Coots, Henke, and Wheeler for CMC Properties. Prior to the meeting, the petitioner requested a continuance to the March 7, 2006 meeting. …END… 3.Docket No. 05110033 ADLS Amend: Meridian North Medical – Signage The applicant seeks approval for a new sign package. The site is located at 13590 - B North Meridian St and is zoned B-5. Filed by Adam DeHart for Keeler-Webb Associates. Present for the Petitioner: Adam DeHart with Keeler-Webb Associates at 486 Gradle Drive, and Frank Cosmas, owner/operator of the Meridian North Medical building with FCC Development. Petitioner’s Presentation: Adam DeHart said that the building was just recently built in the last couple of years. He said that as the building has been finished out, the tenants, who are mostly medical, have offered ownership in the business. He said that the new owners of the building have a little different idea on the sign package than what was approved. He said that there was a wing wall on the South side of the building that faced Meridian. He said that the signage that they were asking for an amendment to was only the wall signage that faces Meridian. He said that the rest of the sign th package that is on 136 street would remain the same. He said that the petitioner wants to move the non-lit brass letters off the wing wall to an internally-lit white lettering sign and put that up on the building between the first and second floor in line with the windows on the West side. He said that he recognizes that having signage between the first and second floor isn’t ideal, but the building Page 3 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417 February 7, 2006 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda architecture is really limiting as far as location and placement of the signage, although they were allowed wall signage originally. He said that the petitioner is asking for relief from the type, location and color of the letters of the signage. Angie Conn said that the department is requesting denial of the petition because when the building was initially approved there was no signage at all on the building façade; it was on the wing wall. She said that the signage, scale, and placement doesn’t really fit in with the lines and architectural features of the building. She said that Committee should discuss the scale and somehow getting the letters to fit in with the lines of the building. Rick Ripma asked what the wing wall signage says. Adam DeHart said that the sign read Meridian North Medical Building and contains the building address. He said that the physician’s names were allowed to be on it, but there weren’t any right now. Discussion ensued about the existing sign. Rick Ripma asked if it would be backlit. Adam DeHart said that it would be internally lit. Rick Ripma asked how the petitioner chose the place to put the sign. Adam DeHart said that the petitioners were trying to get it in front of the section of the building that the Doctor’s office occupies. Wayne Haney asked if the petitioners were going to come back later with other comparable signs for the other portions of the building. Adam DeHart said that on the original approval, the petitioners were allowed 60 square feet of wall signage, which was down on the wing wall. He commented that this proposed sign was just over 30 square feet. Carol Schleif clarified that the brass sign would come down. Rick Ripma clarified that the answer was that the petitioners were likely to come back for at least one other wall sign. Discussion ensued about the size of the proposed sign. Dan Dutcher asked the petitioners if they had given any thought to improving the sign location that they currently have. He said that he was more sympathetic to getting the name of the medical building in a more prominent location than he was to getting the doctor’s name up on the building. He said that he didn’t think that putting the individual doctor’s names on the façade of the building was consistent with what the intent of the original approval was. Page 4 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417 February 7, 2006 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda Wayne Haney suggested the possibility of a ground-mounted sign. Adam DeHart said that would be difficult with the US 31 Overlay. Angie Conn said that the sign would have to be five feet away from the Right of Way line. Adam DeHart said the ground sign would end up inside the building. He said that the petitioners would like to come to some sort of agreement that would work for everyone. Carol Schleif suggested that the petitioners consider changing the name of the building. Adam DeHart said that would only work if there was only one doctor. He said the building was going to house the office of more than one doctor. Rick Ripma commented that the proposed signage doesn’t look very good. Adam DeHart said that he didn’t think it would look right to put it up in the gable. Rick Ripma asked how large the name of building was on the wing wall. Adam DeHart responded that it was around 20 square feet. Discussion ensued regarding square footage of the sign. Dan Dutcher asked how much it would cost to raise the wing wall. He said that right now the wing wall isn’t even as high as one story. He suggested that the petitioners could almost raise the wing wall as high as the first story and get the same effect. Frank Cosmas said that there was a dumpster there. Adam DeHart added that was a possibility. Carol Schleif suggested that the petitioners could run that wall up and then the roof could be raised and covered. Adam DeHart said that one reason that they added the wing wall was to hide the dumpster. Carol Schleif said it could be taken up to the next band and that would increase the visibility. Discussion ensued about the height of the wing wall. Adam DeHart said that the petitioners would be willing to do that and that he thought that they could make that work because he said that there was a deep footer under that wall. Page 5 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417 February 7, 2006 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda Kevin Heber asked if that would be more than a sign approval. Angie Conn said that it could be included in the approval of the request. Carol Schleif said that she would like to see it in elevation. Angie Conn said that she feels that is a much better suggestion than the signage that was proposed. Dan Dutcher said that he would be happy delegating out to the Department of Community Services approval of the elevation. Adam DeHart said that the wall extension would be constructed out of the same materials because that is the only thing that would look right. Carol Schleif said that the petitioners should carry the window openings somehow, even if they are just wide open, she said that the petitioners should carry the penetrations. Dan Dutcher made formal motion to grant docket number 05110033 ADLS Amend: Meridian North APPROVAL conditioned upon raising the wing wall to accommodate Medical – Signage additional signage, having the final plan approval for the signage to be delegated to the Department pursuant to the Committee discussion, and allowing the full allotment of the square footage of the wall signage that was previously approved accommodated on the wing wall. Kevin Heber seconded the motion Motion was approved 5-0. …END… 4.Docket No. 06020003 ADLS Amend: The Great Frame Up The applicant seeks approval for a building addition, parking, landscaping, and signage. The site is locatedat21 First Street SW and is zoned B1. Filed by Mark Fraley for The Great Frame Up. Present for the Petitioner: Brian McFarlan, an architect representing The Great Frame Up, and Mark st Fraley with The Great Frame Up at 21 1 Street SW Carmel, IN 46032. Petitioner’s Presentation: Brian McFarlan said that Mark Fraley owns the Great Frame Up in Westfield and that he was looking to relocate his business to the Arts District in Carmel. He said that one thing that is really unique about the site is that it is a really narrow site at 38 feet wide. He said that the home is about 23 feet wide. He said that the existing site has one tree on it and that the tree hasn’t been well cared for and is somewhat unstable and somewhat of a liability. He said that the petitioner is proposing to make an addition to the existing building for storage, restore the existing portion of the building. He said that parking would be an issue because of the narrow site. He said that Mark Fraley had spoken with the owner of the property next door and that they had made an arrangement that Page 6 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417 February 7, 2006 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda allows the business to the west of the existing building the availability to some more parking area and allows Mr. Fraley to access his drive. He said that the property is zoned B-1. He said that the property doesn’t actually sit in any of the overlay zones, but he noted that the existing structure is on the significant structure map. He said that the changes to the building that are proposed are to put “barn red” siding with black shingles. He presented material samples to the Committee. He said that the petitioners would be maintaining the Victorian detailing on the front porch. He said that the front would look, in essence, the way that it does now. He said that the landscape plan that is proposed is taking down the existing tree and then the petitioner would plant two new Serviceberry trees. He said that the trees would have a spread of about thirty feet. He said that they are proposing a low sign. He said that there would be a planting area out in the front of the porch. He presented a board depicting the landscape plans for the property. He showed the Committee a picture of the proposed signage. He said that it would be a 4 ft. “barn red” ground sign with about 10 square feet of surface area. He said that the sign would have a ground-mounted light on each side to illuminate the sign at night. He said that there wouldn’t be any other site lighting because the site is so small and any site lighting would spread over the property lines. Angie Conn said that the Department’s first two issues come from the Engineering Department. She said that the Engineering Department doesn’t feel comfortable with a car reversing out into the right- of-way in order to maneuver on the site. So, that parking space may need to be eliminated. She said that comment number two says that the petitioners will be required to do street curb improvements to have one parallel parking space on the street, so Angie Conn said that parking space on the street could possibly count toward their parking requirements. Mark Fraley asked what type of street curb requirements they would be required to do. Angie Conn said that question should be asked to the Engineering department. Carol Schleif suggested that the petitioner consider doing the parking spaces at a 90-degree angle as opposed to the way it was proposed. Angie Conn said that another comment that the Department had was that, Scott Brewer, DOCS Urban Forester had done an inspection on the existing tree and had found it to be very healthy and that he strongly recommended that the tree be saved and not taken out. Discussion ensued about putting the parking perpendicular to the street at keeping the tree in between the parking spaces. Angie Conn said that the Department recommends that the Committee continue this request until all issues are worked out, but she said that if the Committee feels like it could be approved tonight, she said that the Department asks that the approval be contingent upon the petitioner working with the Carmel Engineering Department. Carol Schleif asked if the petitioner knew anything about what Pedcor would be doing next door. Mark Fraley responded that Pedcor is building a z-shaped mall and parking. Page 7 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417 February 7, 2006 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda Discussion ensued about the Pedcor development and its impact on the property owned by Mark Fraley. Carol Schleif asked if the rear yard setback was fifteen feet. She noted that the petitioners only had eleven shown. She asked the petitioner if he had to move the building back 4.5 feet what it would do to the project. Mark Fraley responded that he would rather not. Discussion ensued about dumpster access. Mark Fraley suggested that he was willing to create short-term parking on his site and share parking with Pedcor once they were built out. Rick Ripma commented that the problem with sharing parking was that the parking spaces got counted twice and, then, there sometimes ended up being a shortage of spaces. Rick Ripma asked if the proposed parking lot was going to be concrete. Mark Fraley said that it would be the same as the neighbors, which he believed was asphalt. Rick Ripma said that he didn’t feel like the Committee had enough information to move forward. Carol Schleif asked if the building was historically significant at all. Mark Fraley responded that the building was very old. He said that the foundation didn’t match the style of the house. Kevin Heber said that Tom Rumer, in the Depot, said that this particular building was the only house that was in the picture dated 1913 that still exists. Carol Schleif said that if the home was eligible to be on a national registry, then the vinyl siding and the window replacements were going to be a major issue. Rick Ripma said that the docket number would be continued to the next Plan Commission Committee meeting on March 7, 2006. …END… 5.Docket No. 06010004 Z: Carmel Drive – Range Line Road Overlay Expansion The applicant seeks to rezone 30 parcels from R1/Residence, B1/Business, B2/Business, B3/Business and I1/Industrial to R1/Residence within the Carmel Drive – Range Line Rd Overlay, B1/Business within the Carmel Drive – Range Line Rd Overlay, B2/Business within the Carmel Drive – Range Line Rd Overlay, B3/Business within the Carmel Drive – Range Page 8 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417 February 7, 2006 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda Line Rd Overlay and I1/Industrial within the Carmel Drive – Range Line Rd Overlay in order to expand the boundaries of the Carmel Drive – Range Line Rd Overlay Zone. th The area is located along Range Line Road from 136 Street to US 31. Filed by the City of Carmel Department of Community Services. Present for the Petitioner : Adrienne Keeling with the Carmel Department of Community Services. Petitioner’s Presentation: Adrienne Keeling said that the Department is proposing to expand the Carmel Drive-Range Line Road Overlay district. She said that it was noted that this area is stuck between two very hot areas in Carmel, which are Clay Terrace and Old Town. She said that the Department would like to extend the overlay boundary along Range Line Road to help form any potential development that could take place in the future along Range Line Road. She said that there was a lot of potential for this area, particularly with the Cool Creek trail being proposed there. She said that any businesses that existed now that wanted to remain there would be able to do so. She said that the overlay only requires development plan and moving the buildings up to the street with parking behind if there is over a fifty percent addition of the original gross floor area to the building. She said that in the negotiation and forming of the Carmel Drive-Range Line road overlay a couple years ago, it was determined that if anything were to happen to an existing building in the overlay, they would have the option of rebuilding the building as it was prior to the destruction. Kevin Heber asked if the overlay required two-stories. Adrienne Keeling said that there is a second story requirement of fifty percent of the building footprint. Wayne Haney asked what the setback was. Adrienne Keeling responded that the overlay setback requirement would be a minimum of 0 and a maximum of 10 feet subject to easements and that sort of thing. She said that they would want people building in the right of way. Rick Ripma commented that he didn’t like the overlay when it came through. He said that he it only makes sense since the overlay exists up to a certain point and with all the traffic that will be going through the area, it would be a good idea, because the area is now a major entryway into Carmel. Carol Schleif asked if the apartments North of the Arden area needed to be included. Adrienne Keeling said that part of the reason that was done was because it was all one parcel. She said that for simplicity, staff tried to keep parcels under the same overlay. Kevin Heber said the overlay would provide better continuity between Clay Terrace and downtown. Dan Dutcher said that the strip was more of a hodge-podge than anything else, so he said that he thought the area would benefit from what was being proposed. Page 9 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417 February 7, 2006 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda Discussion ensued related to the possibility of on-street parking in the area. Adrienne Keeling clarified that the Committee would be voting on the zoning only. Dan Dutcher made formal motion to send Docket Number 06010004 Z: Carmel Drive – Range Line favorable recommendation Road Overlay Expansion to full Plan Commission with a . Kevin Heber seconded the motion. Motion was approved 5-0. …END… The Meeting was adjourned at 7:16 p.m. ____________________________________ ____________________________________ Subdivision Committee Chair – Rick Ripma Respectfully Submitted By: Laura Rouse-DeVore Page 10 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571-2417