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Home My WebLink About06030206 Correspondence Page 1 of 2 Ochs, James A From: Ochs, James A Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:56 PM To: 'Ed Rensink' Cc: Chad Schaeffer; danp@rlturner.com; Blanchard, Jim E; Hoyt, Gary A Subject: RE: Carmel Water Operations Ed, I conducted a site inspection today with Dan from RL Turner, Chad and John Bunting. -. t 1. We consider the non-fire-rated ceiling on the bottom cord of the roof truss to hold up insulation and just be draft stopped. This is being accomplished by Dan. 2. To determine if the fire-rated wall between the use groups is to be a 2 or 3 hour wall and if it is a barrier or a fire wall is still open for discussion to some minor degree. To separate the A-3 and 8-1 requires a 3 hour rated wall, with a fully sprinkle red building we are allowed to reduce the wall 1 hour to a 2 hour wall. a. the training classroom and lunch area exceed 50 occupants based on the size of the rooms using 15 square feet per person. b. if we have A-3 use group than, the area increases with sprinkler systems must be based on the A-3 use group and not the B use group. c. provide the area increases based on the A-3 use group with new calculations. 3. Evidently I completely missed the door to the horizontal exit into the 8 use group. It may have been covered in the stairwell or I must be blind because this point is not an issue now. A horizontal exit is permitted through either a fire wall or fire barrier as long as there is a 2 hour rated separation. 4. We do not have a fire wall in this building and any reference to fire wall contained in 503.1 is not being considered. Please refer to the definition fire wall in chapter 7. We have a conflict in 705.1 which states between the two (fire barrier and fire wall) a fire wall must be used. Please also see 705.5. We all should meet to discuss how best to resoive our individual interpretations of the code. I'm sure we can meet the intent of the code for life safety and feel confident we are doing the right thing. Because of the holiday schedule the building commissioner will be unable to attend but will consider our solution to meet the code. Any time you and the original designer and anyone else you want to attend, just call me and let me know the day before. jim ochs lOchs, James A] -----Original Message----- From: Ed Rensink [mailto:rensink@rimconsultants.com] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 S: 19 PM To: Ochs, James A Cc: Chad Schaeffer; danp@rlturner.com Subject: Carmel Water Operations Jim: At the request of the Architect for this project, I am responding to your inspection notes dated 12-14-06 for this project. Given the inherent limits of emall, we could also meet at the site if you feel that would be beneficial. 12121/2006 Page 2 of 2 My comments below correspond to those in your Notes: 2. My understanding of the drywall ceiling is that it is installed only to hold up insulation - it is not providing any code- required fire block or fire rating function per Sec. 716, IBC. Fire blocking is generally used at ceilings either for separating the interconnection of vertical (wall) cavities with a concealed floor or roof cavity, or for penetrations (piping, etc.). A drywall ceiling is not required to be installed at this location - so we are of the opinion that there isn't anything that says that it is required to be "finished". 3. We agree that the 3-hour wall is required to extend up as you indicate. 4. The 1-hour corridor was not designed to discharge through the 1 st floor corridor - the 2nd floor corridor terminates at an "exit" per Sec. 1005 on each end. The corridor discharges into an enclosed stair at each end, with one discharging directly to the exterior, and the other discharging through a "horizontal exit" (3-hour wall) per Sec. 1005.3.5, IBC. A fire-rated corridor is permitted to discharge through a horizontal exit, since classified as an "exit" per Sec. 1005. 5. The 3-hour fire wall is used for purposes of allowable area - see attached code summary. As indicated in the summary, the building on one side of the fire wall is the S-2 Occupancy area. The other building is a mixed-use "nonseparated uses" Type VB building of S-1, B, and R-2 Occupancy. The 3-hour wall is not used as an occupancy separation - it's used to establish allowable building areas per Sec. 503.1, IBC. A "building area" is defined as an area that is bounded by either exterior walls or fire walls, and can be comprised of any number of different, and often unseparated, occupancy use groups. Please let me know what your disposition is regarding these items. Thanks. Ed Edwin L. Rensink Principal RTM Consultants, Inc. 6640 Parkdale Place Suite J Indianapolis, Indiana 46254 (317) 329-7700 (317) 329-8411 fax 12/21/2006 Page 1 of2 Ochs, James A From: Ochs, James A Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 20065:56 PM To: 'Ed Rensink' Cc: Chad Schaeffer; danp@rlturner.com; Blanchard, Jim E; Hoyt, Gary A Subject: RE: Carmel Water Operations Ed, I conducted a site inspection today with Dan from RL Turner, Chad and John Bunting. 1. We consider the non-fire-rated ceiling on the bottom cord of the roof truss to hold up insulation and just be draft stopped. This is being accomplished by Dan. 2. To determine if the fire-rated wall between the use groups is to be a 2 or 3 hour wall and if it is a barrier or a fire wall is still open for discussion to some minor degree. To separate the A-3 and 8-1 requires a 3 hour rated wall, with a fully sprinkle red building we are allowed to reduce the wall 1 hour to a 2 hour wall. a. the training classroom and lunch area exceed 50 occupants based on the size of the rooms using 15 square feet per person. b. if we have A-3 use group than, the area increases with sprinkler systems must be based on the A-3 use group and not the B use group. c. provide the area increases based on the A-3 use group with new calculations. 3. Evidently I completely missed the door to the horizontal exit into the 8 use group. It may have been covered in the stairwell or I must be blind because this point is not an issue now. A horizontal exit is permitted through either a fire wall or fire barrier as long as there is a 2 hour rated separation. 4. We do not have a fire wall in this building and any reference to fire wall contained in 503.1 is not being considered. Please refer to the definition fire wall in chapter 7. We have a conflict in 705.1 which states between the two (fire barrier and fire wall) a fire wall must be used. Please also see 705.5. We all should meet to discuss how best to resolve our individual interpretations of the code. I'm sure we can meet the intent of the code for life safety and feel confident we are doing the right thing. Because of the holiday schedule the building commissioner will be unable to attend but will consider our solution to meet the code. Any time you and the original designer and anyone else you want to attend, just call me and let me know the day before. jim ochs lOchs, James A] -----Original Message----- From: Ed Rensink [mailto:rensink@rtmconsultants.com] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 S:19 PM To: Ochs, James A Cc: Chad Schaeffer; danp@rlturner.com Subject: Carmel Water Operations Jim: At the request of the Architect for this project, I am responding to your inspection notes dated 12-14-06 for this project. Given the inherent limits of email, we could also meet at the site if you feel that would be beneficial. 12/21/2006 Page 2 of 2 My comments below correspond to those in your Notes: 2. My understanding of the drywall ceiling is that it is installed only to hold up insulation - it is not providing any code- required fire block or fire rating function per Sec. 716, IBC. Fire blocking is generally used at ceilings either for separating the interconnection of vertical (wall) cavities with a concealed floor or roof cavity, or for penetrations (piping, etc.). A drywall ceiling is not required to be installed at this location - so we are of the opinion that there isn't anything that says that it is required to be "finished". 3. We agree that the 3-hour wall is required to extend up as you indicate. 4. The 1-hour corridor was not designed to discharge through the 1 st floor corridor - the 2nd floor corridor terminates at an "exit" per Sec. 1005 on each end. The corridor discharges into an enciosed stair at each end, with one discharging directly to the exterior, and the other discharging through a "horizontal exit" (3-hour wall) per Sec. 1005.3.5, IBC. A fire-rated corridor is permitted to discharge through a horizontal exit, since classified as an "exit" per Sec. 1005. 5. The 3-hour fire wall is used for purposes of allowable area - see attached code summary. As indicated in the summary, the building on one side of the fire wall is the S-2 Occupancy area. The other building is a mixed-use "nonseparated uses" Type VB building of S-1, B, and R-2 Occupancy. The 3-hour wall is not used as an occupancy separation - it's used to establish allowable building areas per Sec. 503.1, IBC. A "building area" is defined as an area that is bounded by either exterior walls or fire walls, and can be comprised of any number of different, and often unseparated, occupancy use groups. Please let me know what your disposition is regarding these items. Thanks. Ed Edwin L. Rensink Principal RTM Consultants, Inc. 6640 Parkdale Place Suite J Indianapolis, Indiana 46254 (317) 329-7700 (317) 329-8411 fax 12/21/2006 Submittal for Carmel Uti lites Tower, offices, and maintenance facility Page 1 of2 Lillard, Sarah N From: Candy Feltner [Candy.Feltner@ctrwd.org] Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:44 AM Lillard, Sarah N; Conn, Angelina V; Hill, Dick B; Hoyt, Gary A; Blanchard, Jim E; Brewer, Scott I; Dolan, Veronica A; Akers, William P; grh@co.hamilton.in.us;john-south@iaswcd.org; mbm@co.hamilton.in.us; Foley, Amanda J; Griffin, Matt L; Duncan, Gary R Cc: Jennifer Bruner; Andrew Williams Subject: RE: Submittal for Carmel Utilites Tower, offices, and maintenance facility Sent: To: The District engineer has requested additional information, Candy J. Feltner Director of Administration and Customer Service Clay Twp RWD 317 -844-9200 317 -844-9203 fax From: Lillard, Sarah N [mailto:SLillard@carmel.in,gov] Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:07 PM To: Lillard, Sarah N; Conn, Angelina V; Hill, Dick B; Hoyt, Gary A; Blanchard, Jim E; Brewer, Scott I; Dolan, Veronica A; Akers, William P; grh@co,hamilton.in.us; john-south@iaswcd.org; Candy Feltner; mbm@co.hamilton,in.us; Foley, Amanda J; Griffin, Matt L; Duncan, Gary R Subject: Submittal for Carmel Utilites Tower, offices, and maintenance facility The Building & Code Services division, has taken in an application for building permit, for the project listed below. Please "'re~h' to_.all"' if you have any outstanding issues. Project: CARMEL UTILITIES Water tower/offices/maintenance facility 3450 W. 131st St. Meeting Date: N/A Time: N/A Related Planning & Zoning docket numbers: Again, if there are concerns that might affect the issuance of this permit, please REPLY TO ALL on this e-mail. 03/29/2006 Lillard, Sarah N From: Sent To: Cc: Subject Duncan, Gary R Monday, March 27, 2006 12:58 PM Lillard, Sarah N Redden, Nick; Hill, Dick B RE: Submittal for Carmel Utilites Tower, offices, and maintenance facility I am not so sure that I have seen this one. G -----Original Message----- From: Lillard, Sarah N Sent Friday, March 24, 2006 16:07 To: Lillard, Sarah N; Conn, Angelina V; Hill, Dick B; Hoyt, Gary A; Blanchard, Jim E; Brewer, Scott I; Dolan, Veronica A; Akers, William P; 'grh@co.hamilton.in.us'; 'john-south@iaswcd.org'; 'Candy Feltner'; 'mbm@co.hamilton.in.us'; Foley, Amanda J; Griffin, Matt L; Duncan, Gary R Subject Submittal for Carmel Utilites Tower, offices, and maintenance facility The Building & Code Services division, has taken in an application for building permit, for the project listed below. Please "reply to all" if you have any outstanding issues. Project: CARMEL UTILITIES Water tower/offices/maintenance facility 3450 W. 131st St. Meeting Date: N/A Time: N/A Related Planning & Zoning docket numbers: Again, if there are concerns that might affect the issuance of this permit, please REPLY TO ALL on this e-mail. 1 Lillard, Sarah N From: Sent: To: Hoyt, Gary A Monday, March 27, 2006 1 :36 PM Lillard, Sarah N; Conn, Angelina V; Hill, Dick B; Blanchard, Jim E; Brewer, Scott I; Dolan, Veronica A; Akers, William P; 'grh@co.hamilton.in.us'; 'john-south@iaswcd.org'; 'Candy Feltner'; 'mbm@co.hamilton.in.us'; Foley, Amanda J; Griffin, Matt L; Duncan, Gary R RE: Submittal for Carmel.Utilities Tower, offices, and maintenance facility Subject: The fire department requested a Knox box and Knox fire department connection caps. If the project is secured by a security gate we are requesting a Knox key switch along with an S.O.S. device to operate the gate after hours in the event of an emergency. Knox products may be purchased on-line at www.knoxbox.com <http://www.knoxbox.com> I can provide information for the S.O.S. device if contacted. Our office phone number is 317-571-2600. Gary Hoyt CFD From: Lillard, Sarah N Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:07 PM To: Lillard, Sarah N; Conn, Angelina V; Hill, Dick B; Hoyt, Gary A; Blanchard, Jim E; Brewer, Scott I; Dolan, Veronica A; Akers, William P; 'grh@co.hamilton.in,us'; 'john-south@iaswcd.org'; 'Candy Feltner'; 'mbm@co.hamilton.in.us'; Foiey, Amanda J; Griffin, Matt L; Duncan, Gary R Subject: Submittal for Carmei Utilites Tower, offices, and maintenance facility The Building & Code Services division, has taken in an application for building permit, for the project listed below. Please "reply to all" if yOU have any outstanding issues. Project: CARMEL UTILITIES Water tower/offices/maintenance facility 3450 W. 131st St. Meeting Date: N/A Time: N/A Related Planning & Zoning docket numbers: Again, if there are concerns that might affect the issuance of this permit, please REPLY TO ALL on this e-mail. 1 Lillard. Sarah N From: Sent: To: Greg Hayes [grh@co.hamillon.in.us] Monday, March 27, 2006 1 :13 PM Conn, Angelina V; Foley, Amanda J; Hill, Dick B; Duncan, Gary R; Hoyt, Gary A; Blanchard, Jim E; Griffin, Matt L; Brewer, Scott I; Lillard, Sarah N; Dolan, Veronica A; Akers, William P; Michael McBride; Candy.Feltner@ctrwd.org; john-south@iaswcd.org Re: Submittal for Carmel Utilites Tower, offices, andmaintenance facility Subject: Sarah The Hamilton County Surveyor's Office has no outstanding issues with this project. If you have any questions, please let me know. Greg Hoyes HCSO Plan Reviewer >>> "Lillard, Sarah N" <SLillard@carmeLin.gov> 4:07 PM Friday, March 24, 2006, 2006 >>> The Building &: Code Services division, has taken in an application for building permit, for the project listed below. Please "reply to all" if you have any outstanding issues. Project: CARMEL UTILITIES Water tower/offices/maintenance facility 3450 W.13Ist St. Meeting Date: N/ A Time: N/ A Related Planning &: Zoning docket numbers: Again, if there are concerns that might affect the issuance of this permit, please REPLY TO ALL on this e'mail. 1 Submittal for Carmel Uti lites Tower, offices, and maintenance facility Page I of I Lillard, Sarah N From: jsouth uohn-south@iaswcd.org] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:16 AM To; Lillard, Sarah N Subject: RE: Submittal for Carmel Utilites Tower, offices, and maintenance facility Sarah, The SWPPP has been approved. John South Hamilton County Soil and Water Conservation District II 08 South 9th Street Nob1esville, IN 46060 ph- 317-773-1406 -----Original Message----- From: Lillard, Sarah N [mailto:SLillard@carmel.in.gov] Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:07 PM To: Lillard, Sarah N; Conn, Angelina V; Hill, Dick B; Hoyt, Gary A; Blanchard, Jim E; Brewer, Scott I; Dolan, Veronica A; Akers, William P; grh@co.hamilton.in.us; john-south@iaswcd.org; Candy Feltner; mbm@co.hamilton.in.us; Foley, Amanda J; Griffin, Matt L; Duncan, Gary R Subject: Submittal for Carmel Uti lites Tower, offices, and maintenance facility The Building & Code Services division, has taken in an application for building permit, for the project listed below. Please "repl~ to all" if you have any outstanding issues. Project: CARMEL UTILITIES Water tower/offices/maintenance facility 3450 W. 131 st St. Meeting Date: N/A Time: N/A Related Planning & Zoning docket numbers: Again, if there are concerns that might affect the issuance of this permit, please-'tEPLYTQ)~"'b on this e-mail. 03127/2006 Lillard, Sarah N Subject: Lillard, Sarah N Friday, March 24, 2006 4:07 PM Lillard, Sarah N; Conn, Angelina V; Hill, Dick B; Hoyt, Gary A; Blanchard, Jim E; Brewer, Scott I; Dolan, Veronica A; Akers, William P; 'grh@co.hamilton.in.us'; 'john-south@iaswcd.org'; 'Candy Feltner'; 'mbm@co.hamilton.in.us'; Foley, Amanda J; Griffin, Matt L; Duncan, Gary R Submittal for Carmel Utililes Tower, offices, and maintenance facility From: Sent: To: The Building & Code Services division, has taken in an application for building permit, for the project listed below. Please "reply to all" if YOU have any outstanding issues. Project: CARMEL UTILITIES Water tower/offices/maintenance facility 3450 W. 131 st St. Meeting Date: N/A Time: N/A Related Planning & Zoning docket numbers: Again, if there are concerns that might affect the issuance of this permit, please REPLY TO ALL on this e-mail. 1