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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCOM 03-29-22 r.-,c-i 4 E ow rt: ) City Ala f of C NDIAM_ Carmel Plan Commission COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE Tuesday, March 29, 2022 Meeting Minutes Location: Cannel City Hall Caucus Rooms,2'Floor, 1 Civic Square,Cannel,IN 46032 Members Present: Alan Potasnik(Chair),Kevin Rider,Dubbie Buckler Members Absent: Jeff Hill Staff Present: Alexia Lopez(Planning Administrator),Aliza Shalit(Recording Secretary),Mike Hollibaugh(Director of DOCS) Legal Counsel: Sergey Grechukhin Time of Meeting: 6:00 PM The Commercial Committee meet to review the following items: 1. PZ-2022-00034 ADLS Amend: Circle K Rebrand—College Plaza. The applicant seeks approval for signage and brand modifications/updating. The site is located at 10598 College Ave.It is zoned B-1Business and is located in the Homeplace Business Sub-Area Overlay District. Filed by Amy Leska of Corporate Identification Solutions on behalf of the owner. 2. PZ-2022-00036 ADLS Amend: Circle K Rebrand. The applicant seeks approval for signage and brand modifications/updating.The site is located at 545 S. Rangeline Road. It is zoned B-1Business and is located in the Rangeline Road Overlay District. Filed by Amy Leska of Corporate Identification Solutions on behalf of the owner. Petitioner: Amy Leska: Representative for Circle K on behalf of Corporate Identification Solutions. We are proposing to rebrand both fueling stations from Shell to Circle K brand. On the canopy we are proposing to remove the red bar lighting and Shell colors and to install the tri-color ACM which is not illuminated.As for the main ID sign,the pylon signs,they are both short monument signs,will be rebranding from Shell to Circle K. Department Report: Aliza Shalit: Location presents a canopy with red,white, and yellow stripped ACM Panels. The proposed update keeps within a similar color scheme in this case with red being the predominant color and a small white and orange stripe at the bottom. An illuminated Circle K and logo sign on the E and W at the College Avenue location and N and S at S. Rangeline faces is also proposed. The existing lighting will be removed. Staff supports updating the ACM panels which would provide a refreshed look to the location but does not support the canopy signage. Updates to the pumps are also proposed and are acceptable if signage remains at 3sf or less. Measurements of signage portion of updated gas pumps will be required during permitting stage. The proposal also includes an update to the Monument Sign face. On the College Ave. sign,the exiting Shell panel will be replaced by price scrollers with a blue background. Right now,the sign does not have the required landscaped area. A landscape plan for this monument sign will be required per City Sign Standards. On the S. Rangeline location, the Shell logo will be replaced by the Circle K logo, and the pricing signs will be replaced by scrollers using a blue background for unleaded fuel and green for Diesel. An updated landscape plan for this monument sign will be required per City Sign Standards. When it comes with issues Iwith the locations,on the College Ave. side, while reviewing the application we noted that the location presents outdoor ice storage freezers as well as propane storage, it also has a dumpster with no enclosure present, as well as no bike parking. On the Rangeline side,there were commitments made in 2019 per 1 Commercial Committee Meeting Minutes 3-29-22 Docket 19010010ADLS Amend regarding the addition of a bicycle rack and the removal of any material or product storage from outdoor locations and they are still there and there is still no bicycle parking present, there are two outdoor ice storage freezers, a propane storage unit, and large stacks of firewood for sale between the gas pumps, right now today, I checked this morning. Staff is supportive of the updates being proposed, with the condition that they update all the items that they committed to before on the Rangeline location and add the bicycle parking on the College location as well as removing all the outdoor storage and on the College side they would have to include the enclosure for the trash bin. There was one more item that we noted, on the S. Rangeline location, a new approximately 200sf accessory building has been installed immediately adjacent to the primary building which was not previously there and Staff is requesting the petitioner to contact the Building Code Services Department to make sure the building is within code. They will need to provide details on what is stored within and the exact square footage, because depending on the square footage and what's inside there are different requirements for permits and installation. There is a slight issue of upkeep of the S. Rangeline location trash enclosure, this is the exterior building, and this is the trash enclosure. Committee Comments: Kevin: 106 'and College,I am pretty sure that somewhere down the road,we are looking at a roundabout there, is that correct?Does this accommodate the right-of-way that we need? Sergei: It does, in fact that particular parcel is not included in our right-of-way position. The way it is designed avoids this parcel entirely. Kevin: I don't like when we have commitments and then somebody comes back two and a half years later and wants something new and never completed the original commitments. If I was making the decision myself,and I am not,I would table this,tell them to fix those things and then come back and see us. That is just my opinion. I don't like when we ask for things and don't get them. The additional building, sneaking it in when Rangeline's being constructed is also inappropriate,I would not ask building services if it meets code,I would ask it to be removed. We have made it very clear if they want to upgrade Rangeline Rd.they must upgrade it,and that means bring the building to the road and start over again. There is a Rangeline Rd. Overlay.You are not upgrading that property without meeting the Rangeline Rd. Overlay. Alan: I would say I agree with everything Kevin said. If it's not done now, it's not going to get done and it will keep going on.I move that we table these two petitions until those items are brought into conformance Kevin: Second. A Motion made by Alan Potasnik and seconded by Kevin Rider to table Docket Nos.PZ-2022-00034 ADLS Amend and PZ-2022-00036 ADLS Amend until the are brought into conformance. Approved 3-0,absent Hill. 3. Docket No.PZ-2021-00205 DP/ADLS: 11335 N.Michigan Rd.Apartments. The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a new development with 4 future outlots and an apartment complex(244 units). The site is located at 11335 N. Michigan Road. It is zoned B-3Business& Residential and is located within the US 421 Overlay zone.Filed by Ryan Wells of REI Real Estate Services, LLC. Petitioner: Ryan Wells,Rick Lawrence,Jon Dobosiewicz: Rick Lawrence attorney with Nelson& Frankenberger: For the record,my name is Rick Lawrence,attorney with Nelson&Frankenberger here in Cannel,with me tonight is Ryan Wells with REI Real Estate Services,and Jon Dobosiewicz with Nelson&Frankenberger as a Land Planner and Ruth Muller to answer any architecture questions. Ryan Wells: I want to walk through changes we have made since we first came before the Plan Commission and what the current plan looks like.Originally the plan was for 244 apartment units,that has been reduced to 236 units. When 2 Commercial Committee Minutes 3-29-22 we came here the first time,we got feedback from the Plan Commission,the various neighbors,and stake holders,to Itake down the 3-story building to a 2-story.The 236 units are comprised of 6 3-story buildings and 4 2-story buildings. Buildings 4, 5, 7,and 9 have been relocated to avoid setback variances.Originally these buildings were about 40-ft off, they are now 52-ft off,with the reduction to 2-story we are no longer seeking a variance to the N. In addition,this 2- story building down here, 52-ft off,no variance, and then building 9 has been shifted W, so it fronts on commercial now,and no longer needs a variance due to the distance from the nearest residential. Building 7 was rotated,due to feedback from Weston Pointe that they preferred the building to be rotated,for parking purposes. We relocated the building and relocated the dog park.As mentioned before there is no setback here, 52-ft off the property line,avoiding the setback variance. We went ahead and have drawn the E/W road in,we will take it to property line to accommodate future development to the E. This will not be a right-of-way originally, but as we developed it, it will have that right in the case there is any development here,it can become a public right-of-way.The N/S street is being stubbed at the southern property line so it can be connected-in by the City in the future. We made some recent modifications to the pedestrian trail,we originally had it going all the way around the pond,based on feedback from the neighbors to the N we have changed the path and eliminated the trail here so it's just here.In addition,we have added fitness benches and a small pier in the amenity area.Architecturally, design was roughly 60%brick and 40%hardy board with a different color brick.We went up to a 90%red brick façade to conform with the overlay.Showed building adjacent to the Woodhaven neighborhood.We have redesigned and added various architectural detail based on the Federal Style and we have split the windows from how it was previously done. We heard from the Planning Department regarding the 3- story buildings and the HVAC unit locations along some of the buildings and near the street. We have modified the design of the building(you can see on tab 10)to locate HVAC units on the roof. Essentially,they are still slanted roofs,but we have cut out a section and created a flat roof on top to fit the HVAC. We were able to get about half the units in the building on the roof,the remaining ground units have been placed on the ends of the buildings,so they don't interfere with any of the enjoyment of the space. They are heavily landscaped around. We have included lighting fixtures and a photometric map. Regarding the overall landscaping plan we have been working with the OF to preserve any existing foliage that is worth preserving. Our plan is to leave whatever we can save and then we will fill-in with additional landscaping. We ordered a woodland evaluation included in your package.There are some invasive pear species in the middle of the site that will be removed. On the N and S we will be able to protect 25-ft and leave it undisturbed,on the E side about 20- ft. We have proposed a privacy fence from funeral home coming around to all the surrounding residential property and stop at the back of this commercial property(tab 7).A picture of that proposed fence is on Tab 7 together with a Line- of-Sight Study,where we can see Building 4,the pond,and parking lot. We have eliminated the trail that was there before,there is significant amount of old growth,25-30-ft tall evergreen trees which we will try to save,filling all landscaping,supplementing with additional landscaping to get a full visual barrier there. Dubbie: What is the height of the fence? Ryan: What we proposed here is a 6-ft vinyl fence as requested by the funeral home. There has been a lot of concern about the density of the development, in Tab 14 we provide a chart comparing similar developments in the area, it shows our development to be on the least dense side of Cannel. Alan:Requested the Tab brough up on the screen. Ryan: We looked at similar style 2-3 story building developments,I included the most recent ones,although these are not as applicable,they are denser situations in different areas. In addition,we are requesting a variance for parking space per unit.We are at 1.64 space per unit(spu),I believe the Code is 2.Our studies of other developments in Cannel show an average of around 1.51 spu,which is what we typically need to function in an apartment complex. We have done some additional parking to try to reduce the concern. Regarding traffic,we had a traffic study done for the intersection at N. Michigan and Bennett Pkwy. We'll provide a full copy to the Planning Department. We have included a letter that we received recently,that is a contingent approval for a traffic light at that intersection upon that light assuming this development moves forward.Light will be synchronized to the light at Weston Pointe just S of Ithere. Kevin: That would be at expense of petitioner,correct? Ryan: That is correct. Regarding bike storage,we have indoor and outdoor bike parking and the exhibit on Tab 12 shows where it is located. Essentially there is a storage room in each building where you come in for bike storage. 3 Commercial Committee Minutes 3-29-22 Department Report: Alexia Lopez: Petitioner has made significant changes to the buildings and enhanced the architectural character,which were a lot of our main concerns.The windows have been separated as requested to be more consistent with the Federal Style,brick and stone detailing have been added to the separate floors and provided more visual interest on the façade.Other changes like changing height of one of the buildings to 2-story,moving the path so it is not along the northern edge, also including some of the HVAC units on the roof of the buildings. The Engineering(ED)and Urban Forestry(UF) Departments are still reviewing this so we would recommend any approval contingent upon their final approval.In general, looking at the project,we think it is good site design,we got shorter buildings along the perimeter next to existing residential,taller buildings transitioning up to the commercial lots along Michigan Road,there is buffer provided around the edges incorporating some of the existing landscaping that we have there to preserve those trees, the parking is located internal to the site so you have the nice building façades along the edge and the center street that come through.They have addressed all our comments since the last Committee meeting. We would recommend a positive recommendation back to Full Plan Commission after discussion this evening. Committee Comments: Dubbie: I went through all the comments,the consistent ones are that density is still too high,I would be interested in what they think about the relocation of the 3-story buildings;they want the fencing higher than 6-ft; and I would need clarification on the wooded/green space separating the buildings from the adjacent neighborhoods. Ryan: On the N and S we are going to be able to protect about 25-ft undisturbed,on the E side because the buildings are slightly closer it is about 20-ft.We will save anything that is worth saving as we work with the UFD. There are some invasive species in this property that the UFD wants to see removed. We will plant landscaping to fill the area in. There are some 25-30-ft evergreen trees there. Dubbie: Has the amount of space between Weston Pointe and this been increased from previous plans? Ryan:Yes,originally it was about 40-ft,but we have moved it out,so it is 52-ft.It was always a 2-story building there, but we rotated it per Weston's request,and we backed it off 52-ft,so it is no longer subject to a variance. The 3-story building was shifted W so that it abuts to the commercial and not the residential and exceeds any distance as far as setback guidelines. Dubbie: Can you quickly show where the fencing is? Jon: The fence will start at the back side of the commercial building,running along over to the property corner all along the Weston to the property to the E,to the N all along the property to the E and then all along the S edge of the Woodhaven subdivision and then clear back almost to the N/S street. It will extend a good portion across the mortuary site and all along the residential. Dubbie: Will the height increase along the residential? Ryan: Right now, it is planned as a uniform 6-ft all the way around,but it is something we can work on. Dubbie: My opinion would be that it should go up to 8-ft where you are bordering residential areas. Ryan: Proposed that if changed,the fence should be 8-ft throughout. Transitioning would be difficult otherwise. Dubbie: The other comment that is resounding is Density.I would note that the comparable items that you put up earlier are in very different areas of Carmel and this is in what is the Estates section of Carmel,so I certainly understand why people don't see this the same as they would see development along the Monon or the Central Core. I wonder if it is possible to reduce the density any further. Ryan: We took all this into account when we designed this site and we set the density as light as any multi-family development can be done in an economical basis.I know those comps were not exactly comparable,but there aren't any that show apartments less dense right now. Dubbie: That is my point.The other two comments that were prevalent were turning it into a housing division or condos. Kevin:You could not finance condos there. Ryan: We looked at all the properties and it just doesn't work for anything else. It does not make economic sense. Jon: In the 421 Overlay Multi-family is a permitted use, single family and two-family dwellings are prohibited. Dubbie: That is a good point. Increasing the height of the fence would be desirable. Alan: Did I hear you correctly?Is the HVAC going to be on the roof of those buildings? 4 Commercial Committee Minutes 3-29-22 Ryan: HVAC units in the 2-story buildings(7,6, 5,4)were left alone and spread out with landscaping around them. The issue with the Planning Department was that on the larger buildings you start to get clusters of units and they were concerned about people enjoying the use of their back yard and having to deal with all these units making noise. On the 3-story buildings(9, 10, 8, 1,2,and 3),we created a flat roof area right in the middle where the units could be housed(our engineers worked on the appropriate locations). Half of the units for the 3-story buildings will be on the roof and the remaining units will be on the ends and will be heavily landscaped and shielded around. Alan: Building 9,that is a 3-story building with half of HVAC units on the roof. What is that going to look like to those who live to the S. Ryan: They won't be able to see it. The roof is slanted and then we cut the top off creating a flat,sunken space where the units could sit. When you are looking from the ground or a second story unit even, it looks like a normal roof. Jon: The cut out would be up here and it would come down and then over. These are false dormers for design's sake,it brings down the height of the roof modestly. On Cannel Drive,headed W from downtown,there is Rigsby Dental, it is an office building on the corner of City Center. That building has a false roof. The roof around all four sides has an area that is about 40-ft wide and about the length of the building that's open. If you look at an aerial you will see that. The roof surrounds that space where it's a flat roof and the mechanical sits on top of that and you will never see it. Alan: What is the distance between the edge of that building(9)and the nearest house? Jon: To the property line from the edge of the building to the closest residential is 80+feet. Alan: So, it's 40-ft to the landscaping? Jon: It's at an angle. So roughly 100-105-ft. Set back from the property line to the building is 50-ft. In that 50-ft space there are 25-ft of landscaping,25-ft of grass area.But because it is further removed to the W,the 3-story building is 100-105-ft to the nearest townhome. Alan: Going back to the fence,you mentioned on the N side,a concern of mine at the beginning was the fact that that may not be continuous.But now it is continuous all around the project,is that correct? Ryan: Yes,that is what we are proposing now. IKevin: I always tell people fight something to kill it if you want to,but also fight to make it the best it can be.I want to remind people,this was prior approved as a Kroger,so careful what you wish for if you push too hard against something,I would rather have this than a Kroger,but I don't live there.A Kroger could come back, it was approved once it could get approved again. Jon: A commercial building at 100,000sf. Alan:Are there any outstanding items that you have control over that would not be going to the BZA that still have not been addressed? Kevin: Engineering and landscape Alexia: Just final approval by the ED for drainage and the OF for the Landscape plan. Alan: Is there a motion? Kevin: I would move that we send this back to the Plan Commission with a positive recommendation contingent upon the landscaping and engineering approval. Alan: Is there a second? Dubbie: I would second only with the addition that the fencing height be increased to 8-ft. Kevin:they committed to that. A Motion made by Kevin Rider and seconded by Dubbie Buckler to send Docket No.PZ-2021-00205 DP/ADLS to the April 19 Plan Commission with a favorable recommendation subject to Engineering and Urban Forester approval and an 8-foot fence surrounding the development as committed to by the petitioner. Approved 3-0,absent Hill. 4. Docket No.PZ-2021-00139 DP/ADLS: Oberweis—That Burger Joint—Woodgrain Pizzeria. The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a restaurant on a 1.15 acre vacant parcel. The site is located at 10920 N. Michigan Road,which is the SW corner of Weston Pointe Blvd. and Michigan Rd./US 421. It is zoned B-3/Business and is located in the US 421 Overlay Zone. Filed by Joe Oberweis, owner. 5 Commercial Committee Minutes 3-29-22 Petitioner:Joe Oberweis,Eric Longoria: Eric Longoria-DXU architects: Signage details for project,monument sign,menu board,and directional signage. Looking into design, square footage,monument face,and how it will all come together. We are looking into creating a masonry base that adheres to the wainscot we have on the building to be used with our standard host menu board,then adding a flashing cap on to finish it up and match the menu board with a black finish,anchoring it together. Presented standard set-up for Oberweis-That Burger Joint with two main menu signs with wing menus on either side. This captures what you will have on this space. The directional signage is a double sided, illuminated sign reading"Drive Thru"as you enter,and"Thank You"as you exit. We know that you have a 3sf limit. Typically,we are a little bit bigger for our directional signage,but we sized it down and we are now at a 2.7sf. We only have one on the site at the entrance on the access way. There is a clearance bar as well as a Monument sign on the site. Looking at the monument sign, it was originally close to a 9-ft sign, it was sized down to 6-ft. We sized the sign down and removed the extensions beyond the monument depth.Now the sign is flush with the masonry.The sign was previously located on the diagonal,now the location is more perpendicular to the road,so the views are more N/S bound. We also moved it 5-ft off the property line to account for the setback.As far as the building signage,we are removing the 3 signs on W side,the area that faces the rear of the building,and the one to the S for the Woodgrain that was facing the Kindercare. Those are items that we can take out to help us adhere closer to the signage limits for this site. We still have the 3 that are on the front side,the Oberweis to the N,and then the monument sign. So,we are at 4 right now. Department Report:Alexia Lopez: We listed 4 remaining comments in the staff report. They went through some of those regarding the Signage this evening,the Ground Sign now is 5-ft back from the property line and it meets the minimum size requirements,and they have also removed some of the signage from the elevations of the buildings which we are very grateful for.Now they will just have 3 on the front facing Michigan Rd.,one on the N façade,and a ground sign. They took off the ones facing W and S. They will still need a variance for that,but that is something that we can support in comparison to the original proposal. We need to look at the menu board size some more, it may have to be reduced a little bit per our ordinance,I think 30-sf is the maximum.Right now, it is around 37-sf. Preview boards are allowed and I think you can do a maximum of 50-sf if you have a preview board and a menu board,but one can only be up to 30-sf. The landscape plan still needs to be approved by the OF as well.They are missing a total of 8 trees, so a variance would need to be set for that or some additional trees added. Looking at the site plans I think there might be some room along Michigan Rd. where you could add a couple more trees.You may still need that variance,but it would be preferable if we could fit more onsite. There is a variance needed for the height adjacent to residential, it's not over by a lot and we didn't know if it was possible to lower the height at all and still be able to hide mechanical equipment on top or if the plan is to seek the variance. If they can't,we don't want to see the mechanical units on top.It is not a large increase over the height that would be permitted,but if you can address that tonight it would be helpful. Finally,the architectural style,which was talked a lot about at the Plan Commission: we worked with them a lot from when they first came through to make some changes. It's going after the Italian 8 style,but maybe if you can go through some of the features that are complementary to that style this evening,we would appreciate it. We would recommend that if these items can't be addressed this evening it should be continued to the Commercial Committee meeting on May 5t. Committee Comments: Alan: Do you want to address Staff's concerns before the committee asks questions? Eric: Yes.I will start with addressing the style. We have been working with the city and it's something we have been developing over the past few months,our elements there are not necessarily replicating,but more complementing was what we were looking for.For example, in the window styling proportions,we aim to compliment that. If you look at number 2,a lot of the styling in Italian 8 is larger windows,narrower with these box cut ups,half way,third cuts and we put that across our elevations; our windows are normally large expanses of glass,we have broken those down with mullions. The other thing is the top of the overhangs along on the wood grain is most noticeable,having overhangs at 24-in that evoke that Italian 8 styling.Looking at the main vestibule, looking at number 3, shows some situations where there are large spans of glass—one of the large concerns was that the vestibule does have a lot of glass between doors and the opening above. There are situations where there are conservatories, larger areas that you can get these expanses of glass off Italian 8 styling and that is what we try to aim for when we have this vestibule instead of it being 6 Commercial Committee Minutes 3-29-22 all glass and metal. In reference to the vestibule,number 5,there are situations where they have symmetrical components on the large entrance of that space,we did try to keep that storefront,the doors glass and the second height in the same proportions as well. Trying to get symmetry. Landscaping: we have had discussions with the UF,we agree with most of their comments,the only outstanding is the number of trees that we have and that is something that we are trying to look at, increasing the density of the trees. Blocking lights on Michigan Rd. from the access road is something we have no problem with,that is easy to rectify. We have a playground on the site where we would have had trees,we tried to drop in a family element that was part of the experience of going to Oberweis-That Burger Joints and Woodgrain Pizza. We are going to try to move the trees to the E or W. We will try to get them closer to the requirement,4 ornament and 4 shade trees. Height: We are at just over 25-ft,overlay has 20-ft adjacent to residential properties. This used to be a 7000-sf concept and we have shrunk it down to the 4,200-sf that we are proposing here in Cannel,so space is at a premium when it comes to the inside of this space,storage,dining areas,so bringing the inside volume in will be tough, it will be hard to bring the total height down there,but we can look at trying to get the parapets a bit shorter,maybe try to get that down a couple of feet.I don't think we would be able to get under the 20-ft that the City is requesting. We want to be conscious of the units that are up there as well. If we go too short,we will have an issue with some of our larger units, making the air and exhaust fans stick up over the top of that parapet. Alan: Is that going to be one of the items coming to BZA,the building height? Eric: Yes Alan: There are 3 restaurant here basically,is that correct?Or one restaurant? Eric: One restaurant, 3 concepts. Alan: Are there 3 sections?Is there going to be a different offering in each section or you can get anything you want to at any of the sections. James:You order centrally from 3 separate menus.Inside the design is different in the 3 separate areas. But you can move freely back and forth,and you can order from any of the three menus and get served at the same time. IAlan: So, it is just really a design that simulates 3 different restaurants.But in fact, it's only one. With regards to the menu board on the drive-thru(only one Drive-Thru—correct).You will have a menu board for each? James:Not the pizza,just burgers and ice cream. Alan: But that will be all on one menu board(Eric: correct)and one lane going through. Eric: One for ordering,and then it will split into 2 lanes for queuing and pickup. Dubbie: One for ordering and two for pick-up?(Eric: Yes) Alexia: Can we show that on the site plan,please? Eric: You have your ordering menu,clearance bar,and then once you come through here,you'll have queuing to the right or left. Kevin: So,you run the food out to them if they are not against the building. You would be told where you que. Eric: Yes because the burgers are made to order. If it's not ready you will most likely que off on that right side and then they will run it out to you. They will tell you where to que,not by choice. Alan: With regards to the signage in the rear,you mentioned you'd look into removing the rear sign. What does that mean. Either you are or you are not. Eric: We have had internal discussions and if it is going to be a sticking point for the city,then we will remove them. Alan/Kevin: It's going to be a sticking point. Remove them. Kevin: We are at a point where you must be specific not conceptual. Alexia: They sent those to us today,can you show the paper copies of the most recent elevations?They removed all the Signs on the back and the one on the side. Kevin: Your concept of doing one restaurant with three different concepts works from an operational and cost standpoint,from a building code standpoint it's complicated.Because you are getting credit for being one business instead of three,but you are trying to look like you are three. Alexia: Rachel described it as a car dealership,maybe it's one company but then they get multiple variances for Imultiple signs on it for the different brands. Kevin: Did we address all four of your items? Alexia: They talked about the signage in the beginning,they just need to reduce the menu board size,but the ground size now meets the requirements and they moved that back 5-ft behind the property line. 7 Commercial Committee Minutes 3-29-22 Kevin: Is Staff comfortable with the comments on your four items? Alexia: If they can still work with the UF to add a couple more trees,they may still need that variance. But the other ones we are comfortable with. The menu board size will have to be worked on. Eric: With the separate pre-menu we may be able to make that up. Alan: Are you going to be able to meet with the UF before the next Plan Commission meeting. Eric: We have been trying to set up with them. I would like to say yes. Alexia: Have you submitted the plans yet on ProjectDox?The next set to review. Eric:Not yet. Kevin: When will you submit that? Eric: The civil has been working on that stuff, so I am hoping for the end of next week. Alan: Is that enough time?Alexia: The meeting is April 19th;the 8th is when the packet is due with the final set. Eric: I am hoping for that. Kevin: If we send it back and it's not done,you will get tabled. Alexia: Aliza brought up something else,we have to look at the location of the Menu Board sign to make sure that it meets the setbacks. Committee Comments: Kevin: I would make a motion that we send this back with a positive recommendation contingent upon the four items (plus the menu board)being worked out and submitted by the 8t of April, if they aren't,put it on our agenda as Tabled please.And all commitments made on tape as far as signage would be included on the motion. Alan: Dubbie seconded it. A Motion made by Kevin Rider and seconded Dubbie Buckler to send Docket No.PZ-2021-00139 DP/ADLS to the Full Plan Commission with a positive recommendation contingent on the four items remaining with Staff concerns plus the menu board and that it be submitted by April 8th,as well as all commitment made on tape be included in the motion. Approved 3-0,absent Hill. 5. Docket No. PZ-2022-00001 DP/ADLS: Culver's. The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for new Culver's restaurant. The site is located at 431 E. Cannel Drive. It is zoned B-8/Business and is not located in any overlay zone. Filed by Bob Goins of K&J Investments XVL,LLC. Petitioner:Jon Dobosiewicz,Nelson& Frankenberger: Jon: We want to review the comments and suggestions received from Staff and Plan Commission about the drive-thru, stacking,and building design. Illustration 1: Perspective of building standing along Cannel Dr. looking SE.There were a significant number of blue awnings that needed to be removed,we have done that.At the far end of the perspective, there were three additional areas where they had EIFS areas and the awnings,this has been modified,there is still a narrow blue banner to pick up some of that design element on the rear portion of the building.Presented revised elevation. The W side of building with horizontal design elements and blue awnings have been removed due to lack of windows.Described exhibits explaining what would be seen from different directions. The drive-thru has two ordering lanes with a structure above that space for protection and inclement weather.You can order from your car,but in certain situations when there are higher volumes,they will stage employees there for faster turnarounds.Dumpster enclosure on E corner of the site,matching materials of the building. The EIFS, stone and masonry predominately. Night view shows accent lighting only. Signage: one wall sign,faces Cannel Dr.and one ground sign along Cannel Dr.Originally there were wall signs on all four sides of the building and a couple on certain elevations, Staff advised to consider a more modest amount of signage. We have revised the signage and Staff is supportive. Bicycle parking has been revised;no variance needed.It has been relocated. The maximum lot coverage is supposed to be 60%,we are asking for 68%. Lot coverage percentage is consistent with Teachers Credit Union and some of the others that have redeveloped. We will be seeking 46 parking spaces rather than 70. Typically,they have a larger seating area,patrons 8 Commercial Committee Minutes 3-29-22 Iper vehicle who come in a sit down is more of an event rather than customary compared to other fast-food locations. Signage,we are seeking one additional sign. The N entrance from Cannel Dr.,today there is a combined entrance at that location, still a work in progress,we have sent this revised illustration to the Engineering Dept.(ED)to make sure we design that entrance correctly.Today there is a busted-up median at what is the exit from Fazzoli's and the entrance into this site. We have looked at it and we are proposin this condition but will have ED review it and when we come back to the committee,hopefully we will have a determination on what the best approach is there.This stippled area that extends from Cannel Dr. S onto our sidewalk, is a pedestrian walk. We had asked for consideration to move it to W,you will always have a potential obstruction as vehicles park on the parking spaces along Carmel Dr. If we move this,you still have obstructions.ED thinks the best location is where shown on schematic,because there is no obstruction in the way of an entering vehicle. We didn't amend location of the sidewalk due to those items. An additional item that was discussed was drive thru stacking. The illustration identifies how many vehicles can be there. From ordering the ordering standpoint,we can have as many as 6 vehicles que'd up in the ordering position under the canopy.Then there are 9 vehicles stacked at the pick-up window. This is the operative space;they need time between placement of orders and pick-up at window.In the event there is no adequate time between placing the order and picking-up,they have an additional 8 defined parking spaces—pre-defined at ordering time.There is another awning for inclement weather for employee protection. The reason that we have drawn it up was that the issue came up about there always being many people in the drive thru. Many other locations don't have the extended distance between the point of order and point of pick-up,plus defined 8 spaces after that.As a company they have looked at enhancing the experience as good they can particularly at the drive thru. The layout is different from other local Culver's locations,but they believe it will enhance experience for the customer. Alan: When they come in from Cannel Dr. following arrows,where the 6 cars are under the ordering canopy and then they proceed to come back together in a single lane, is this when they pay and then split off? IJon: There are different options,mobile order where you enter the drive thru and you have already paid or if there is an individual taking orders,there is probably an option to pay with that individual,or at the purchase window. It would depend on volume. Alan: The 4 cars on the left of the que area,would they have to cross over to exit? Jon: They would go to the right and enter this northbound only lane and approach the exit or they can come back around the building and exit out the easement on the back side of Fazzoli's onto AAA Way. Can the northern most vehicle in that left hand lane negotiate the crossover into the exit lane?There is adequate room there. Alan: Coming out of Carmel Dr.and following the arrows around, it's conceivable that you could have a que line extending out onto Carmel Drive? Jon: Again,the methods that they've employed here which differ from other locations are to avoid that condition. Dubbie: I think when you open you will have that condition. Department Report: Alexia Lopez: We received these revised elevations today.Appreciate moving the awnings, it is a great improvement for the architecture. We still need to review that.There are still some outstanding items with the architecture that we'd like to keep discussing with them:where columns are,they have stone that goes all the way up on some areas,but then on the fronts and some of the sides the stone stops and then there is EIFS. So,we'd like to see the stone continue all the way up.Taking a look at the roofline and enhancing that cornice,making it more detailed. The cornice along the drive thru canopy should also be more detailed to match the cornice for the main building,adding details underneath it, replicating what's on the principal building. Some areas where stone does go all the way up,seem heavy up top with heavy stone all the way up,if you bring the stone on the columns up,maybe have the water table at the bottom in the stone and the middle being brick instead. They moved the bicycle parking. Lighting plan needs to be updated to make sure that is compliant with the requirements,landscape plan approval is still needed by UF.Please get revised Idrawings into ProjectDox. Bob Goins: They were uploaded last Tuesday.Alexia: Was task completed to send it on. Bob: Rachel helped me. Everybody was having issues that day.Alexia: I will take a look to see if it moved on, if not we can help you get that sent on. 9 Commercial Committee Minutes 3-29-22 Alexia: We have not seen menu board size yet. We do have requirements for how big it can be. Did you address the asphalt path along Cannel Dr. and what your plan was for that? Jon: Working with ED.For the benefit of the community,when we have a situation where there is redevelopment, particularly along Cannel Dr.where the code today requires that walk path,typically we contribute to a non-reverting fund with the ED. Alexia: They are still working with the ED on the detention on water quality,we need to make sure that they are still moving forward with that and are compliant with those requirements. We would recommend this be continued after some discussion to the next Commercial Committee mtg. Committee Comments: Dubbie: Traffic flow,I contend that once this opens you will have traffic.Are arrows, striping,part of the consideration so people have a clear idea?My concern is up N,pulling in off Cannel Dr. do I know not to cut the corner deep? Jon: There will be directional signage on site that identifies the location of the drive thru. There will be yellow stripping. That is what we are coordinating with Fazzoli's,there is an existing easement between the two properties, and we are looking at alternatives for access. Alan: Does the dumpster door close and lock automatically. There is a very popular coffee place that has a dumpster as you approach the pickup window,the doors are always open,overflowing,and unsightly. Bob: It would be a steel frame that has the matching finish on the front. It has a steel rod that drops down into a hole, manually open. They swing out and close back. Alan: Would it be such that they could they remain open? Bob Goins: They would impede the drive thru if they remained open. Dubbie: Is it a possibility have them slide in and out as opposed to swinging? Kevin:No. The only time those are open is when the trash truck comes.You are not loading trash from those doors. Jon: We need to update illustration; it is from before the site plan changed and it shows the dumpster in the wrong location. It accommodates the dumpster and the recycle bin. Alan: The fascia on the canopy,will there be any signage on that?Jon: No.Alan: People will still be able to access Fazzoli's?The cut through not going away,right? Bob: This is a dedicated easement from that all the way to the road behind Fazzoli's. A Motion made by Alan Potasnik and seconded Kevin Rider to continue Docket No.PZ-2022-00001 DP/ADLS to the May 5 Commercial Committee meeting. Approved 3-0,absent Hill. 6. TABLED TO APRIL 19 PLAN COMMISSION-PZ-2022-00033 ADLS Amend: Ozwell Fitness. :,fitness f c:l:ty T e s:te is located „t 10 77 3 Avenue SW t: ed i 1/Industrial and of located within any. .e,la) dist is .Filed by Da id Gil, of T and De elo ent S bel l f f th aau.� ri7�t'1�eT�1T�GTRi1T-vi-C�i1e-pwilGf Meeting adjourned at 7:40 PM. 9 A iza Shah Recording Secretary Alan Po snik Committee Chairman 10 Commercial Committee Minutes 3-29-22