HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes COM 03-29-22 Ryan: HVAC units in the 2-story buildings(7,6, 5,4)were left alone and spread out with landscaping around them.
The issue with the Planning Department was that on the larger buildings you start to get clusters of units and they were
concerned about people enjoying the use of their back yard and having to deal with all these units making noise. On
the 3-story buildings(9, 10, 8, 1,2,and 3),we created a flat roof area right in the middle where the units could be
housed(our engineers worked on the appropriate locations). Half of the units for the 3-story buildings will be on the
roof and the remaining units will be on the ends and will be heavily landscaped and shielded around.
Alan: Building 9,that is a 3-story building with half of HVAC units on the roof. What is that going to look like to
those who live to the S.
Ryan: They won't be able to see it. The roof is slanted and then we cut the top off creating a flat,sunken space where
the units could sit. When you are looking from the ground or a second story unit even, it looks like a normal roof.
Jon: The cut out would be up here and it would come down and then over. These are false dormers for design's sake,it
brings down the height of the roof modestly. On Cannel Drive,headed W from downtown,there is Rigsby Dental, it is
an office building on the corner of City Center. That building has a false roof. The roof around all four sides has an
area that is about 40-ft wide and about the length of the building that's open. If you look at an aerial you will see that.
The roof surrounds that space where it's a flat roof and the mechanical sits on top of that and you will never see it.
Alan: What is the distance between the edge of that building(9)and the nearest house?
Jon: To the property line from the edge of the building to the closest residential is 80+feet.
Alan: So, it's 40-ft to the landscaping?
Jon: It's at an angle. So roughly 100-105-ft. Set back from the property line to the building is 50-ft. In that 50-ft space
there are 25-ft of landscaping,25-ft of grass area.But because it is further removed to the W,the 3-story building is
100-105-ft to the nearest townhome.
Alan: Going back to the fence,you mentioned on the N side,a concern of mine at the beginning was the fact that that
may not be continuous.But now it is continuous all around the project,is that correct?
Ryan: Yes,that is what we are proposing now.
IKevin: I always tell people fight something to kill it if you want to,but also fight to make it the best it can be.I want to
remind people,this was prior approved as a Kroger,so careful what you wish for if you push too hard against
something,I would rather have this than a Kroger,but I don't live there.A Kroger could come back, it was approved
once it could get approved again.
Jon: A commercial building at 100,000sf.
Alan:Are there any outstanding items that you have control over that would not be going to the BZA that still have not
been addressed?
Kevin: Engineering and landscape
Alexia: Just final approval by the ED for drainage and the OF for the Landscape plan.
Alan: Is there a motion?
Kevin: I would move that we send this back to the Plan Commission with a positive recommendation contingent upon
the landscaping and engineering approval.
Alan: Is there a second?
Dubbie: I would second only with the addition that the fencing height be increased to 8-ft.
Kevin:they committed to that.
A Motion made by Kevin Rider and seconded by Dubbie Buckler to send Docket No.PZ-2021-00205 DP/ADLS
to the April 19 Plan Commission with a favorable recommendation subject to Engineering and Urban Forester
approval and an 8-foot fence surrounding the development as committed to by the petitioner.
Approved 3-0,absent Hill.
4. Docket No.PZ-2021-00139 DP/ADLS: Oberweis—That Burger Joint—Woodgrain Pizzeria.
The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a restaurant on a 1.15 acre vacant parcel. The site is
located at 10920 N. Michigan Road,which is the SW corner of Weston Pointe Blvd. and Michigan Rd./US
421. It is zoned B-3/Business and is located in the US 421 Overlay Zone. Filed by Joe Oberweis, owner.
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Petitioner:Joe Oberweis,Eric Longoria:
Eric Longoria-DXU architects: Signage details for project,monument sign,menu board,and directional signage.
Looking into design, square footage,monument face,and how it will all come together. We are looking into creating a
masonry base that adheres to the wainscot we have on the building to be used with our standard host menu board,then
adding a flashing cap on to finish it up and match the menu board with a black finish,anchoring it together. Presented
standard set-up for Oberweis-That Burger Joint with two main menu signs with wing menus on either side. This
captures what you will have on this space. The directional signage is a double sided, illuminated sign reading"Drive
Thru"as you enter,and"Thank You"as you exit. We know that you have a 3sf limit. Typically,we are a little bit
bigger for our directional signage,but we sized it down and we are now at a 2.7sf. We only have one on the site at the
entrance on the access way. There is a clearance bar as well as a Monument sign on the site. Looking at the monument
sign, it was originally close to a 9-ft sign, it was sized down to 6-ft. We sized the sign down and removed the
extensions beyond the monument depth.Now the sign is flush with the masonry.The sign was previously located on
the diagonal,now the location is more perpendicular to the road,so the views are more N/S bound. We also moved it
5-ft off the property line to account for the setback.As far as the building signage,we are removing the 3 signs on W
side,the area that faces the rear of the building,and the one to the S for the Woodgrain that was facing the Kindercare.
Those are items that we can take out to help us adhere closer to the signage limits for this site. We still have the 3 that
are on the front side,the Oberweis to the N,and then the monument sign. So,we are at 4 right now.
Department Report:Alexia Lopez:
We listed 4 remaining comments in the staff report. They went through some of those regarding the Signage this
evening,the Ground Sign now is 5-ft back from the property line and it meets the minimum size requirements,and
they have also removed some of the signage from the elevations of the buildings which we are very grateful for.Now
they will just have 3 on the front facing Michigan Rd.,one on the N façade,and a ground sign. They took off the ones
facing W and S. They will still need a variance for that,but that is something that we can support in comparison to the
original proposal. We need to look at the menu board size some more, it may have to be reduced a little bit per our
ordinance,I think 30-sf is the maximum.Right now, it is around 37-sf. Preview boards are allowed and I think you can
do a maximum of 50-sf if you have a preview board and a menu board,but one can only be up to 30-sf. The landscape
plan still needs to be approved by the OF as well.They are missing a total of 8 trees, so a variance would need to be set
for that or some additional trees added. Looking at the site plans I think there might be some room along Michigan Rd.
where you could add a couple more trees.You may still need that variance,but it would be preferable if we could fit
more onsite. There is a variance needed for the height adjacent to residential, it's not over by a lot and we didn't know
if it was possible to lower the height at all and still be able to hide mechanical equipment on top or if the plan is to seek
the variance. If they can't,we don't want to see the mechanical units on top.It is not a large increase over the height
that would be permitted,but if you can address that tonight it would be helpful. Finally,the architectural style,which
was talked a lot about at the Plan Commission: we worked with them a lot from when they first came through to make
some changes. It's going after the Italian 8 style,but maybe if you can go through some of the features that are
complementary to that style this evening,we would appreciate it. We would recommend that if these items can't be
addressed this evening it should be continued to the Commercial Committee meeting on May 5t.
Committee Comments:
Alan: Do you want to address Staff's concerns before the committee asks questions?
Eric: Yes.I will start with addressing the style. We have been working with the city and it's something we have been
developing over the past few months,our elements there are not necessarily replicating,but more complementing was
what we were looking for.For example, in the window styling proportions,we aim to compliment that. If you look at
number 2,a lot of the styling in Italian 8 is larger windows,narrower with these box cut ups,half way,third cuts and
we put that across our elevations; our windows are normally large expanses of glass,we have broken those down with
mullions. The other thing is the top of the overhangs along on the wood grain is most noticeable,having overhangs at
24-in that evoke that Italian 8 styling.Looking at the main vestibule, looking at number 3, shows some situations
where there are large spans of glass—one of the large concerns was that the vestibule does have a lot of glass between
doors and the opening above. There are situations where there are conservatories, larger areas that you can get these
expanses of glass off Italian 8 styling and that is what we try to aim for when we have this vestibule instead of it being
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all glass and metal. In reference to the vestibule,number 5,there are situations where they have symmetrical
components on the large entrance of that space,we did try to keep that storefront,the doors glass and the second height
in the same proportions as well. Trying to get symmetry.
Landscaping: we have had discussions with the UF,we agree with most of their comments,the only outstanding is the
number of trees that we have and that is something that we are trying to look at, increasing the density of the trees.
Blocking lights on Michigan Rd. from the access road is something we have no problem with,that is easy to rectify.
We have a playground on the site where we would have had trees,we tried to drop in a family element that was part of
the experience of going to Oberweis-That Burger Joints and Woodgrain Pizza. We are going to try to move the trees
to the E or W. We will try to get them closer to the requirement,4 ornament and 4 shade trees.
Height: We are at just over 25-ft,overlay has 20-ft adjacent to residential properties. This used to be a 7000-sf concept
and we have shrunk it down to the 4,200-sf that we are proposing here in Cannel,so space is at a premium when it
comes to the inside of this space,storage,dining areas,so bringing the inside volume in will be tough, it will be hard to
bring the total height down there,but we can look at trying to get the parapets a bit shorter,maybe try to get that down
a couple of feet.I don't think we would be able to get under the 20-ft that the City is requesting. We want to be
conscious of the units that are up there as well. If we go too short,we will have an issue with some of our larger units,
making the air and exhaust fans stick up over the top of that parapet.
Alan: Is that going to be one of the items coming to BZA,the building height?
Eric: Yes
Alan: There are 3 restaurant here basically,is that correct?Or one restaurant?
Eric: One restaurant, 3 concepts.
Alan: Are there 3 sections?Is there going to be a different offering in each section or you can get anything you want to
at any of the sections.
James:You order centrally from 3 separate menus.Inside the design is different in the 3 separate areas. But you can
move freely back and forth,and you can order from any of the three menus and get served at the same time.
IAlan: So, it is just really a design that simulates 3 different restaurants.But in fact, it's only one. With regards to the
menu board on the drive-thru(only one Drive-Thru—correct).You will have a menu board for each?
James:Not the pizza,just burgers and ice cream.
Alan: But that will be all on one menu board(Eric: correct)and one lane going through.
Eric: One for ordering,and then it will split into 2 lanes for queuing and pickup.
Dubbie: One for ordering and two for pick-up?(Eric: Yes)
Alexia: Can we show that on the site plan,please?
Eric: You have your ordering menu,clearance bar,and then once you come through here,you'll have queuing to the
right or left.
Kevin: So,you run the food out to them if they are not against the building. You would be told where you que.
Eric: Yes because the burgers are made to order. If it's not ready you will most likely que off on that right side and
then they will run it out to you. They will tell you where to que,not by choice.
Alan: With regards to the signage in the rear,you mentioned you'd look into removing the rear sign. What does that
mean. Either you are or you are not.
Eric: We have had internal discussions and if it is going to be a sticking point for the city,then we will remove them.
Alan/Kevin: It's going to be a sticking point. Remove them.
Kevin: We are at a point where you must be specific not conceptual.
Alexia: They sent those to us today,can you show the paper copies of the most recent elevations?They removed all
the Signs on the back and the one on the side.
Kevin: Your concept of doing one restaurant with three different concepts works from an operational and cost
standpoint,from a building code standpoint it's complicated.Because you are getting credit for being one business
instead of three,but you are trying to look like you are three.
Alexia: Rachel described it as a car dealership,maybe it's one company but then they get multiple variances for
Imultiple signs on it for the different brands.
Kevin: Did we address all four of your items?
Alexia: They talked about the signage in the beginning,they just need to reduce the menu board size,but the ground
size now meets the requirements and they moved that back 5-ft behind the property line.
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Kevin: Is Staff comfortable with the comments on your four items?
Alexia: If they can still work with the UF to add a couple more trees,they may still need that variance. But the other
ones we are comfortable with. The menu board size will have to be worked on.
Eric: With the separate pre-menu we may be able to make that up.
Alan: Are you going to be able to meet with the UF before the next Plan Commission meeting.
Eric: We have been trying to set up with them. I would like to say yes.
Alexia: Have you submitted the plans yet on ProjectDox?The next set to review.
Eric:Not yet.
Kevin: When will you submit that?
Eric: The civil has been working on that stuff, so I am hoping for the end of next week.
Alan: Is that enough time?Alexia: The meeting is April 19th;the 8th is when the packet is due with the final set.
Eric: I am hoping for that.
Kevin: If we send it back and it's not done,you will get tabled.
Alexia: Aliza brought up something else,we have to look at the location of the Menu Board sign to make sure that it
meets the setbacks.
Committee Comments:
Kevin: I would make a motion that we send this back with a positive recommendation contingent upon the four items
(plus the menu board)being worked out and submitted by the 8t of April, if they aren't,put it on our agenda as Tabled
please.And all commitments made on tape as far as signage would be included on the motion.
Alan: Dubbie seconded it.
A Motion made by Kevin Rider and seconded Dubbie Buckler to send Docket No.PZ-2021-00139 DP/ADLS to
the Full Plan Commission with a positive recommendation contingent on the four items remaining with Staff
concerns plus the menu board and that it be submitted by April 8th,as well as all commitment made on tape be
included in the motion.
Approved 3-0,absent Hill.
5. Docket No. PZ-2022-00001 DP/ADLS: Culver's.
The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for new Culver's restaurant. The site is located at 431 E.
Cannel Drive. It is zoned B-8/Business and is not located in any overlay zone. Filed by Bob Goins of K&J
Investments XVL,LLC.
Petitioner:Jon Dobosiewicz,Nelson& Frankenberger:
Jon: We want to review the comments and suggestions received from Staff and Plan Commission about the drive-thru,
stacking,and building design. Illustration 1: Perspective of building standing along Cannel Dr. looking SE.There were
a significant number of blue awnings that needed to be removed,we have done that.At the far end of the perspective,
there were three additional areas where they had EIFS areas and the awnings,this has been modified,there is still a
narrow blue banner to pick up some of that design element on the rear portion of the building.Presented revised
elevation. The W side of building with horizontal design elements and blue awnings have been removed due to lack of
windows.Described exhibits explaining what would be seen from different directions. The drive-thru has two ordering
lanes with a structure above that space for protection and inclement weather.You can order from your car,but in
certain situations when there are higher volumes,they will stage employees there for faster turnarounds.Dumpster
enclosure on E corner of the site,matching materials of the building. The EIFS, stone and masonry predominately.
Night view shows accent lighting only. Signage: one wall sign,faces Cannel Dr.and one ground sign along Cannel
Dr.Originally there were wall signs on all four sides of the building and a couple on certain elevations, Staff advised
to consider a more modest amount of signage. We have revised the signage and Staff is supportive. Bicycle parking
has been revised;no variance needed.It has been relocated. The maximum lot coverage is supposed to be 60%,we are
asking for 68%. Lot coverage percentage is consistent with Teachers Credit Union and some of the others that have
redeveloped. We will be seeking 46 parking spaces rather than 70. Typically,they have a larger seating area,patrons
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