HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes BZA 07-23-90 IIPIIPV
CARMEL BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES - JULY 23 , 1990 9. Nicely stated that the petitioner agrees w ith all staff
recommendations (which is a part of the official minutes and
attached to the Master Copy) with the exception that the site
circulation needs reversed with regard to the car wash entrance
and exit .
The public hearing was closed at 8 : 44 P.M.
Mrs . Badger moved to approve Docket No . SU 67-90 as presented.
Mr. Klar seconded.
Findings of Facts were completed by all board members .
Unanimously approved.
Mrs . Badger moved to approve Docket No. V 68-90 as presented with
the exception that on the 6 dispenser valences the name "Maratho-
n" be eliminated (which total 12 ) .
Mr. Miller seconded.
Findings of Facts were completed by all board members .
Unanimously approved.
13g. 7 : 00 P .M. , Public Hearing on Docket No . V 69-90 a
Developmental Standards Variance Application for Robert
L. Lauth, Jr. and 4 . 20 acre tract of land located at
809 West 106th St . , Carmel . Petitioner is requesting
variances from sections 26 . 1 . 1 and 25 . 1 . 3 of the
Carmel/Clay Zoning Ordinance to increase the maximum
building height from 35 feet to 50 feet and increase
the maximum allowable garage area. Parcel is zoned S-
1 .
Filed by E . Davis Coots for Robert L . Lauth, Jr.
The public hearing was opened at 8 : 49 P .M.
Ms . Sheila Marshall, 255 E . Carmel Drive, Carmel, made the
presentation a copy of which is on file at the Carmel Department
of Community Development .
The location and the development plan was shown.
There were no comments from the public at this time .
There were no elevations to be displayed at this time .
The public hearing was closed at 9 : 52 P.M.
Mr. Thompson moved to approve Docket No . V 69-90 as presented.
Mr. Klar seconded.
Findings of Facts were completed by all board members .
Unanimously approved.
14g. Board to consider suspension of the Rules of Procedure
CARMEL BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES - JULY 23 , 1990 71111
to allow a Public Hearing on two( 2) Special Use ap-
plications filed by the Carmel/Clay School Corporation .
Special use approval is sought for a proposed 6, 000
seat stadium and several athletic practice fields on
the north side of 136th St . just west of Keystone Ave .
The second special use request is for a parking lot
containing 450 parking spaces to be located on the
southeast corner of Main St . (131st St . ) and 4th Ave.
SE . Parcel are zoned R-1 and R-2 respectively.
Filed by Tim Steven of Campbell, Kyle, Proffitt for the
Carmel/Clay School Corporation .
The public hearing was opened at 8 : 55 P.M.
Mr. Steve Andrews sat in as attorney for this project .
Mr. Tim Stevens, Land Use Consultant with Campbell Kyle Proffit,
198 South 9th Street, Noblesville, made the presentation, a copy
of which is on file at the Carmel Department of Community Develo-
pment .
Ms . Debbie Farmer of Campbell Kyle Proffitt, Legal council for
the School Corporation, Mr. Don Corto, the project manager in
house at Everett I . Brown Co. , Mr. Bernie Schneider, operations
on site project manager for Everett I . Brown, Mr. Daryl Hoffman,
Project Engineer for the site design, Mr. Roger Harper, Business;
Manager for the Carmel/Clay School Corporation, Mr. Tom Ford,
with Pflum, Klaus Meyer and Gehrum who prepared the traffic
analysis, Ms . Laura Miles, Landscape Architect with Everett I .
Brown Co. were present .
An aerial view, lighting plan, and a site plan was presented.
Mr. Don Corto, discussed the elevations of the project .
Ms . Laura Miles, Landscape Architect gave a description of what
landscaping what was being planned for.
Mr. Robin Gerst, 120 Carmel View Dr. spoke of her concerns about.
the new parking lot, he is not against the parking lot, he is
strong against the only entrance and exit off of 4th Avenue . Hi
other concerns were the lighting, traffic and students walking.
He is pleased about the ornamental fencing.
Mr. Stevens stated that the idea was to segregate the pedestrian
from the vehicle traffic which is why it was fenced, because we
figured people would be filtering any way they please across Main
Street particularly. The idea behind the only point of ingress
and egress (pointed out on display) were thinking in concert witl,
the staff regarding this versus the Main Street and am sensitive
to the concerns . Speaking from a traffic engineering point
consideration of this site we did not want to put that main po.`.oi
r .
CARMEL BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES - JULY 23 , 1990 ii
of ingress egress on to the main drive . Normally choose the
lesser of the two in terms of its traffic characteristics for an
outlet . We are shifting the demand that currently exists for
parking on the North side and those people would normally come
out on 4th St . that is being shifted over to the South side .
The old parking lot will be covered by building to a large extent
across on the north side . There will be some parking. We are
changing that point of congestion at the intersection onto the
south side and are releasing it onto to the minor street abutting
Main .
Mr. Stevens stated that he didn ' t think they had any plans for
dimming the lighting at night, will be a consistent level of
illumination but it will be rather low in terms of what you seen
in terms of lighting intensity.
Ms . Debbie Farmer, Campbell Kyle Proffitt, stated that the
elementary schools and the high school dismiss classes at dif-
ferent times and the elementary schools will be dismissed before
the high school at the beginning and the end of the day. There-
fore, the students will not be walking across the road and high
school students driving at the same time . The elementary schools
start school later and leave school earlier than the high school
students .
Mr. Stevens stated that in the parking lot design they shifted it
to the east as much as possible to allow for additional space .
The City Engineer and the Street Department Superintendent as
well as the Community Development staff felt like an eventual
alignment of this intersection would be a very much improved
situation . Displayed a conceptual rendering on how that may look
in the future . It will require further study by the city,
determining how they want the alignment to occur and when the
construction may commence . The idea behind the design and our
offer for the dedication of right-of-way was to maintain flexibi-
lity to improve that intersection geometry.
Ms . Marilyn Thomas , 80 4th Ave S .E . , spoke of her concerns that
there is a real problem with parking, traffic, children have
little league practice and students have football practice and
the drainage .
Ms . Sally Rushmore, 340 Carmel View Dr. , concerned about no
sidewalks on Carmel Drive and have to walk on the street and the
traffic on Carmel View Drive .
Mr. Tom Meganhart, 1940 E . 136th St . , Wind crest Farm, stated
his concern of the noise and lighting from the stadium, the large
number of students , would like a fence and landscaping to buffer
from the high school parking lot . Also, the drainage of water
CARMEL BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES - JULY 23 , 1990 iz
and the roadway expansion . He requested denial until a buffer, a
fence and landscaping can be presented.
Mr. Bill Fields , 18 Albert Court, stated his concern regarding
drainage control, lighting hours , buffering area, and the in-
creased activity after schools at the elementary school .
Ms . Iris Balke, 14 Albert Court, spoke against this project
regarding the parking lots , the traffic on Lexington Blvd. , the
children crossing the streets, and losing green grassy areas in
Carmel .
Ms . Nancy Jacobs, 1945 E . 136th St . , spoke in concern of the
roadway that will be built across Cool Creek, the tree preserva-
tion, the traffic flow and increase, and the litter on 136th
Street .
Mr. Stevens stated that they would be putting up buffering and
residuous trees and a 6 ' fence up along the Meganhart property.
The buffer along the east side will be brought currently to the
property line indicated on the survey, a 20 ' separation which
they also have a D-gap situation, where are in the process of
acquiring from the Holts tapers from 60 ' out the front to 30 ' in
the back. What they would end up with would not be a 20 ' wide
strip but a 70-50 ' wide strip along the property.
Mr. Kett asked if the asphalt parking lot would go up to this
gentleman ' s property? There will be a buffer? What is the plan
if any, is there going to be space left the way it is round? Has
there been any thought of mounding?
Mr. Stevens stated that ultimately it would be no closer than
50 ' . We have got a 6 ' chain link fence being proposed along that
side around the perimeter of the property.
Ms . Debbie Farmer of Campbell Kyle & Proffitt stated that she had
been involved with the acquisition . If any of you are familiar
with adverse possession, essentially if you sit on property for
long enough even though you don ' t have legal title to it you
really do have legal title to it . They have a strip of land to
the west that varies from 30-60 ' in width that clearly the people
that own this from whom we are buying this right now, they
possessed it they paid the taxes on it and they have it by
adverse possession. The petitioner just has to get through the
procedure of clearing up the title to it . There was a change
made within the last week to 10 days in terms of the location of
a water main to service this property originally. It had been
tentatively been planned for underneath 136th Street, it has been
relocated (as indicated) and that will carry with it the need to
give to the City an easement along this D-gap when they get it .
They will be looking at some landscaping plans for that area, but
CARMEL BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES - JULY 23 , 1990 13
they need to be consistent when they look at them with the
easement that they will have given the City.
Mrs . Badger asked is there running water availability that close
to anyone living in that proximity and will they indeed be
required to hook up to the water? Will there be a sewer line
running there also?
Mr. Stevens stated that they already have got access to the sewer
main that runs down the southeast side of the property. It is on
site and the petitioner will just tap into it .
Mr.Tom Meganhart, 1940 E . 136th St . , stated that if it is propos-
ed that they may buy it or may be able to condemn from the holes
that is a little different than if they in fact do . He still
feels that this should not be approved until there is some
allowance made and would like to see something in black and white
saying what they will do, the specifications and especially
regarding fencing and landscaping and some 50 ' strip of grass
sounds great until you realize that the cars are very close .
This is a major concern to Mr. Meganhart .
Mr. Kett stated that he has concerns regarding the parking lot,
it is the most atrocious place in Carmel .
Mr. Carlos Medina-Rodriguez , 2339 E . 136th St . , stated his concern
regarding the traffic .
Mr .Klar stated his concern regarding the parking lot . To have a
parking lot at 4th Avenue is atrocious all day, not just during
school hours . This is the poorest use for property in the middle
of Carmel he has ever seen . He feels that the school needs to do
some revaluating of this project for a parking lot .
Mrs . Badger asked if a traffic report had been given on what
impact this is going to have on existing traffic?
Traffic reports were handed out to all board members .
Mr. Tom Ford, of Pflum Klausmeier & Gehrum Consultants , 47 S .
Pennsylvania Ave . , traffic analyst, gave a brief overview of the
traffic report . In the review of the study they reviewed the
majority of the traffic generated by the expansion and the single
most impact was going to be the Athletic Complex . They centered
their activities around that and around Keystone, around 136th
Street . They stated the conclusions and recommendations in the
booklet, that with the growth of the student population that the
vehicle trip endings at the school would grow (this was an
estimate based on the Institute of Transportation Engineer Trip
General Manual) current population is 1800 students, they es-
timate that there is around 2500 vehicle trip ends daily occurr-
CARMEL BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES - JULY 23 , 1990 is
ing at the school at various locations that they can park. It
was anticipated to grow 3 , 000 students so it was estimated that
there would be around 4, 155 vehicle trip ends . When they review
in front of the school on Main Street, they looked at the general
geometrics and there are four lanes in front of the school that
end abruptly and begin and as they work towards Keystone it goes
to a three lane section and becomes a four lane . They were
intending that it appeared to them that there had been some
efforts to mitigate the growth of the traffic due to the student
population growth by adding the additional lanes . As the growth
continued that would be a general occurrence and the traffic
could be monitored and implementations could be done to the
street system to handle that . One recommendation that they had
was that the intersection at 4th Avenue and Main Street be
closely scrutinized and that the offset be changed possibly.
Need to take into consideration when they got this they were not
exactly sure how many students would be crossing here, they
simply recommended that this intersection should have further
analysis performed on it . The analysis should include any
parking facilities, pedestrian traffic maybe passing through the
intersection. The preliminary site plans that they had indicated
that the lot was going to be expanded, they didn ' t know exactly
how many, certainly this intersection should be reviewed further.
It was beyond the scope of this preliminary study though.
Mr. Jim Miller stated his concern about the parking area, childr-
en coming and going, after school programs . It is unsafe to have
a parking lot in that area or practical . He has not been con-
vinced that a traffic study has been done that shows that is a
safe and viable alternative at this particular stage . It does
not look to be a very safe or practical answer.
Mrs . Badger questioned what is the great rush? When do you
propose to open this stadium? This board might want to schedule
a special meeting dealing with project . The board has not had a
chance to review and request that the Department of Community
Development to study this traffic study and respond with a report
of their own . Mrs . Badger request that the DOCD hire an outside
Traffic Consultant to study this report .
Mr. Stevens responded stated that they have two applications
pending and it sounds like we have a good deal of concerns that
need to be worked out and looked at the south parking lot . The
hurry on this project is really for preliminary grading and
seeding, it is not for some of the other improvements that will
occur on site that will be let at a later time . They are looking
for the boards approval for the seeding, including certain
improvements also such as piping, time is of the essence . They
are talking about the north side of 136th Street , this is the one
that is the rush. The opening of the stadium will not be until
the beginning of August, 1991 .
illiiiiir
CARMEL BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES - JULY 23 , 1990 15
Mr. Kett stated his concern regarding the length of time the
board has had to study this information makes them uncomfortable
about voting on this project at this time . Mr. Kett felt very
uncomfortable about the parking lot information and suggested
that the petitioner may want to table that item.
Mr. Hal Thompson stated that the one thing missing is the projec-
ting of the future of the content of pupils in the high school
and the elementary school and that whole group of people . That
is not addressed if you tie that to traffic . It is not only
related to the traffic of the school but to the growth of the
community. If you down Keystone into 31 there are projects out
the ear related to office buildings , shopping and residential .
This traffic report could be outdated before it is gets con-
structed. That whole populous base is not related to the school
students as a whole . Is it valid? Based upon age projections ,
production of kids , etc . is it going to be there, you have got
the office space, retail space and the residential space related
to the total picture related to people .
Mr. Stevens stated that they realize that the information is not
sufficient for the board to make these decisions at this time .
It is clear that people from the public have questions , he was
looking for an alternative to allow them to proceed with the
earth work. We voluntarily put this on the table if we might
find some hope of proceeding.
Mr. Kett stated that the board would entertain a special meeting.
Mr. Stevens suggested the meeting be a week to two weeks in order
for the board and themselves to further study the information
received.
Mr. Steve Andrews, attorney,advised the board that he would not
be able to attend a special meeting until after August 1, 1990 .
Mr. Miller asked why couldn ' t they cut the number of cars being
driven to school?
Ms .Debbie Farmer responded to Hal Thompson ' s concerns . What you
see before you in terms of a special use application indeed does
not deal with a lot of the numbers issues . This entire building
plan though grows out of more than a year long study that was
essentially a very sophisticated long range planning committee,
called Century Two that was chaired by City Council person, Lee
Lonzo, including administrators , two school board members ,
teachers, some student leaders and a number of parents . They
spent many hours dealing with those issues and coming up with
recommendations to what type of facilities and what space ought
CARMEL BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MINUTES -
to be available in this building program. That has be'eh ddhe-riti. n s b'-:a
is just not all available to the board at this time ' `Would' be`
happy to get copies of their report to the board_ nembers if they
so desire . rc) w,
The petitioner requested this item to be tabled until a special
meeting can be scheduled.
Mrs . Badger moved to table this project for a special meeting
until August 1st at 7 : 30 P.M. to discuss this project further by
the Carmel/Clay School System.
Mr. Miller seconded.
Approved 3-2 .
Mrs . Ila Badger amended her motion to table this project for a
special meeting on August 8th, 1990 at 7 : 30 P.M.
Mr. Miller seconded.
Approved 5-0 .
Mrs . Badger stated that they are currently in the process of
studying the Comprehensive Plan . They have gone into detail
traffic studies, is there any reason why this traffic study
should not be turned over to the company that has been working
with us on the Comprehensive Plan to review this . Also, request
that their traffic person attend the meeting on August 8, 1990 to
give the board some help and direction . They would be paid
through the Board of Zoning Appeals budget . Mrs . Badger re-
quested that Mr. Brandau contact Mr. John Myers at HNTB.
Mrs . Badger also requested that Mr. Brandau submit this study to
John Myers for his review.
Mr. Andrews stated that was alright with him.
Mr. Brandau requested that the board get a list of their concerns
to him as soon as possible so he does not misguide the engineer
in his analysis . Mr. Brandau requested the request in writing
from Mrs . Badger as soon as possible .
Mr. Jim Miller moved to adjourn this meeting.
Mr. Klar seconded.
Approved.
The meeting adjourned at 10 : 42 P.M.
Chairman Secretary