HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 01-08-02
CARMEL/CLAY PLAN COMMISSION
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
JANUARY 8, 2002
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Subdivision Committee met at 7:00 PM on January 8, 2002 in the Caucus Rooms of City Hall, Carmel, Indiana.
Members present were: Ron Houck, chairperson, Norma Meighen, Dianna Knoll, and Wayne Haney. Marilyn Anderson was also in attendance as an ex-officio member.
The Department of Community Services was represented by Jon Dobosiewicz,.
1. Docket No. 159-01 PP; The Townhomes at Hazel Dell (Information Item Only)
Petitioner seeks approval to plat a ninety-nine-lot subdivision on 23.95± acres. The site is located northwest of East 116th Street and Hazel Dell Parkway. The site is zoned R-2/Residence.
The petitioner also seeks approval of the following Subdivision Waivers:
159-01a SW SCO 7.0.1 Minimum distance between units of 6'
159-01b SW SCO 7.6.3 Minimum width of 75' for Open Space
159-01c SW SCO 6.3.20 Every Residential subdivided property shall be served from
a public street
159-01d SW SCO 6.3.24 Frontage Place exceeds 600' and does not terminate at street
159-01e SW SCO 6.5.1 Minimum lot frontage of 50' at right-of-way line.
Filed by Paul Rioux of Platinum Properties.
Committee input only prior to public hearing—no official action to be taken this evening.
Paul Rioux of Platinum Properties appeared before the Committee for input only. Mr. Rioux reported he has me with the area residents on two occasions and the Department a number of
times in order to clarify exactly what would be needed to develop a community of this type.
One previous issue was a cul-de-sac that needs to be terminated in favor of a local street from Lake Forest, previously stubbed to this property. A second issue is the previously contentious
area that has been converted to common area with a conservation easement in perpetuity, either DNR or a land trust item to be protected forever as undeveloped. Discussions have been
held with the neighbors regarding the clean up of the conservation area and re-seeding.
The primary use of the property is to construct townehomes with rear-loaded garages along the frontage of Hazel Dell Parkway. Ryland Homes would be building the same product being
built at the Carmel City Center and the Village of WestClay. The design combines some front-loaded and rear-loaded properties that would be a good look along the curve on Hazel Dell
Parkway. The lake on the site is approximately 6 acres, a former gravel pit, and would be left undisturbed except for cleaning up the banks and leaving it in its natural state.
Four of the five waivers being requested are specifically required because of the narrow nature of the property, such as 75-foot buffer zones. The second technical issue is that because
we are putting a private drive behind the homes, there is no real frontage road; therefore waivers are being requested from individual residences being served from a public street.
The only change being requested by the City Engineer is that one of the three entry/exit points along Hazel Dell be eliminated. There is a point to the far north where this project
aligns with Brighton Woods, and there is a cut in the median for access. Heading south, there are two other points where access would exit and go south only. There have been discussions
regarding accel/ decel and widening the road—this can be done to 24 feet to allow cars to pass. Significant landscaping is being planned and the City Engineer is working with the petitioner
to allow plantings within the Parkway right-of-way as well as tie the sidewalks into the trail system. Paul Rioux said he would be meeting with Scott Brewer regarding the landscaping.
Comments and open dialogue were invited from the Committee. There were questions regarding the open space area, parking requirements, turning radius requirements, some method for a
connection between the cul-de-sac out of Lake Forest and this project, perhaps brick pavers, with break-away ballards for emergency access to the site. Sewer system was also touched
on; John Duffy will have to meet with petitioner. There are four points of access to Lake Forest for sewers, one is in an individual resident’s yard, three are in rights-of-way. The
best point of access needs to be identified. Water is available at both points of Lake Forest and across the street at Brighton Woods and north of the project on Hazel Dell. The petitioner
has not yet had review by the Technical Advisory Committee. Subdivision Waivers were also discussed and the rationale for the waivers.
Comments were then invited from members of Lake Forest and Brookfield, neighboring subdivisions.
Ron Bauman, 12409 Springbrooke Run, said they basically had no problem but wanted to know more about how this would be developed. Mr. Bauman was in favor of cleaning up the area and
would be happy to have the area seeded and the road done away with.
Mary Ann Ambrough, would also like to see the area cleaned up and maintained.
Bill Marshall, Lake Pointe Drive, said they all support this project because it is a win-win-win situation. The conservation is a positive; no construction traffic through Lake Forest
is also a positive; the proposal will not impact the lake; and there will be no negative impact on Lake Forest or Brookfield in any way. This is a win for the City, the neighborhood,
and the developer.
Mike Seaman, Bill Brooks, and Ron Brown, members of Lake Forest HOA Board of Directors, said they have some issues that need to be clarified, but it is hoped this can be done at an
up-coming meeting scheduled with the developer.
This Docket is scheduled for public hearing this month.
2. Docket No. 124-01 PP; The Sanctuary Subdivision
The applicant seeks approval to plat a twenty-three lot residential subdivision on 28.35 acres. The site is generally located at the northeast corner of West 106th Street and Crooked
Stick Lane. The site is zoned S-1/Residence.
The petitioner also seeks approval of the following Subdivision Waivers:
124-01a SW SCO 6.3.3 elimination of stub street
124-01b SW SCO 6.3.7 cul-de-sac to exceed 600’ in length
124-01c SW SCO 6.5.7 orientation of homes toward cul-de-sac
124-01d SW SCO 6.5.21 < two points of access for more than 15 lots
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth & Associates for Glenn E. Christian.
TABLED TO FEBRUARY
3. Docket No. 151-01 PP Amend; Spring Run Estates, Section 1
The applicant seeks approval to amend Spring Run Estates, Section 1 Subdivision to exclude Block A as identified on the plat. The site is generally located at the northeast corner of
West 106th Street and Crooked Stick Lane. The site is zoned S-1/Residence.
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth & Associates for Glenn E. Christian.
TABLED TO FEBRUARY
4. Docket No. 127-01 Z; U.S. Highway 31 & 146th Street PUD (Rezone)
Petitioner seeks favorable recommendation of a rezone from the B-3 (Business) and R-1 (Residence) districts to a PUD/planned unit development district on 56.79 acres. The site is located
at the southwest corner of US Highway 31 and East 146th Street.
Filed by Paul G. Reis of The Reis Law Firm for the Lauth Property Group.
TABLED TO FEBRUARY
5. Docket No. 138-01 PP; The Lakes at Hayden Run (Primary Plat)
The applicant seeks approval to plat a 111-lot residential subdivision on 80.742± acres. The site is located on the north side of West 131st Street approximately one-quarter mile west
of Towne Road. The site is zoned S-1/Residential.
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth & Associates, Inc. for Centex Homes and Trinity Homes.
This item was continued from the Public Hearing and remains open for additional public input.
Dave Warshauer, attorney, 11 South Meridian Street, Indianapolis, appeared before the Committee on behalf of Centex Homes. Tom Kutz of Centex Homes and Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelworth
& Associates were also present.
The Lakes at Hayden Run is 111 lots on 80.742 acres, a density of 1.37 acres. This development is being platted under the Residential Open Space Ordinance. The Open Space comprises
40% of the total development.
Detail on street lighting and maintenance was an issue at the public hearing. Centex entered into a long term lease and maintenance agreement with PSI of Cinergy to provide lights.
Tom Kutz provided copies of the sample contract with Cinergy that describes the ownership of the street lights and the maintenance responsibility. The contract would be for 10 years;
Cinergy would own the lights, the infrastructure, and the maintenance responsibility for the lights as long as the contract is upheld.
The landscape plan has been provided to the Department.
The Traffic Impact Analysis has been committed with A & F Engineering. Centex has already agreed to one of two things. Either make road improvements as required by the DOCS or contribute
an amount equal to the cost of those improvements to a fund to be administered by DOCS to make the improvements that Mr. Fehribach’s study may decide are more important than the widening
of a road.
A draft of the commitment has also been submitted to the Department and legal counsel. The commitment provides for any expansion or thoroughfare that borders on the site (131st Street)
and the Subdivision Control Ordinance would require either the equivalent of adding an additional lane of pavement and curb and gutter. The typical standard of acceptance by the County
has been to add each road by three feet by the addition of three feet of gravel as a berm. The petitioner will commit to either improve the streets to the full, 12 foot extra lane and
curb and gutter, OR take the difference between that and the three foot expansion and deposit into a fund for DOCS to apply to improvements that might otherwise be deemed appropriate
based on the traffic study.
An overall plan showing the connectivity was explained. The asphalt trail is required on the primary street, namely 131st Street, and trails are being provided throughout the neighborhood.
All of the trails connect into a public street and a public sidewalk; the adjacent property connects the street to the stub and provides access to the trails.
Dianna Knoll asked what traffic improvements would be made to 131st Street and whether or not that has been addressed.
Jon Dobosiewicz responded there is a letter from the County saying 131st Street is on their asphalt plan for this summer. The County also has design plans for improving the section
between West Road and Boone County. They are currently in litigation and working through that. There is money in escrow for the improvements to be made whenever the Court finishes
their phase of the process. An entrance to Longbranch Estates is located at Shelborne and 116th Street, and the re-alignment of this intersection and dedication of right-of-way is
anticipated before the end of the year. The first houses in this subdivision will be finished, the earliest, this fall.
Dianna Knoll asked about drainage. Jon Dobosiewicz responded that at 131st and Towne Road is a low spot and there is no outlot. When the County designs improvements at this intersection,
the stormwater will be directed to an outlot. This particular outlet is through the ditch that runs along Hayden Run—they have direct access to a legal drain. In addition, the County
is having the developer explore the necessary improvements to the whole system from 421 and Long Branch, just south of the Church at 116th and 421, to support drainage in the whole watershed.
The County Surveyor is then looking at improvements, comprehensively, necessary due to all of the developments within the area.
Ron Houck asked if there were an issue regarding an electrical sub-station. Jon Dobosiewicz responded that Cinergy PSI has plans to construct a sub-station at the southeast corner
of 141st Street and Towne Road, a few hundred feet south and east from the intersection. This is an unregulated land use under Carmel’s Ordinance, although they do have to plat the
property they are splitting off. In essence, Cinergy is exempt from our use criteria; they do have to comply in subdividing property, unless they can acquire an additional one and one-half
acres.
Tom Kutz said the landscape plan has been reviewed by Scott Brewer and Scott’s comments will be addressed in a meeting next week.
Members of the public were in attendance and questioned the following: Density, (1.3); product, (comparable to Haverstick, Hayden Run); selling price range (as yet undetermined); drainage,
(there is access to an open, legal drain); traffic, (covered previously in comments by Jon Dobosiewicz); the Cinergy sub-station, (Dave Warshauer did not know Cinergy’s plans); and the
effect on property values, (market driven.)
Tonia Guerrero, 131st & Towne Road, again questioned the traffic improvements. Tom Kutz responded if the traffic study says the improvements are needed, then the dollars contributed
can go to those traffic improvements. Per the Ordinance, it is a requirement for roadway improvements to be made on Lakes at Hayden Run’s frontage property. There will be 3 more feet
of pavement, and a 3-foot, stone shoulder.
Tonia Guerrero also asked about mobile home housing. Ms. Guerrero said that approximately 10 days out of the year, 131st Street and Towne Road is completely covered with water and
the County Highway installs a “high water” sign. This causes traffic problems, especially when the water freezes.
Ron Houck said these are all permanent residences. Tom Kutz said Centex is taking all of the water at The Lakes at Hayden Run off site.
Jon Dobosiewicz said he also has had discussions with the County regarding flooding at the 131st and Towne Road location. The County has attempted to address it, and were it not for
the fact that it is so flat in the area, it would be easier to address through the right-of-way and put in an extra storm tile to discharge the water. When improvements are made to Towne
Road, the County will address all drainage within the right-of-way and be able to outlet that water through storm drains.
Tom Neal, neighbor to the proposed subdivision, also spoke in concern of the traffic that will be generated not only from this subdivision but all of the new subdivisions in the area.
The Comprehensive was designed in such a way as to provide order, stability and value to the western part of the County (Township) and that space generally means value. The Open Space
Ordinance allows manipulation of development to increase the number of people (homes). The developers are using the Ordinance we have given them—this is bad public policy. S-1, one
unit per acre, and the Comprehensive Plan should equate to low level of development, fewer structures, more space, fewer cars, less need for intensive infrastructure. Mr. Neal asked
the Committee to table this item until a thorough traffic study is done and roadway improvements are put in place.
Jon Dobosiewicz said this situation is a “chicken and egg” thing. The Ordinances were not adopted behind closed doors, in secret; they were adopted in full light at Public Meetings
that everyone within the jurisdiction had an opportunity to participate. It is usually when a person receives a notice of a development proposed next door, that person will take the
time to obtain a copy of the Ordinance, and read and understand what is permitted next to their property. Their opinion is “If I don’t like it, it shouldn’t happen,” not “What is the
right of the property owner today?”
Ron Houck said density has been an issue since he moved to Carmel in 1985. The Clay West Information Council was formed to impact what was seen as a lack of control of growth in western
Clay Township. Is the answer today perfect? Maybe not. There was some moderate impact and some restructuring was done—it becomes a census issue—some of it is a floodgate issue. We
could debate density for a long time. The issue from the Committee’s standpoint has already been settled. The Committee must take action on what the plans are today and the Ordinances
that are in effect today. It is like any other entity—if you don’t like it, you have to change it. We must function by rules and unless those rules are changed, we must evaluate
whether or not this petitioner has met the requirements of the Ordinances as they exist today.
Ron went on to say that density would not be debated further this evening. Traffic is a legitimate concern and the Committee is trying to address this. There will be additional funding
to make off-site improvements. Will all of the improvements be made that are wanted? Probably not, but it will be better than it was previously. Will all of the areas of drainage
be addressed? Some of it is going to be development based—others will simply come down to the County and how much you can “beat on them.” It would be good to fight the battle here
tonight, but the Committee does not have the power to solve that problem. We are not going to re-plan western Clay Township.
There was a question from the public regarding adequate space for school buses to turn around as well as emergency vehicles.
Ron Houck responded the school has long maintained a solid philosophy of “Don’t worry about planning, we will deal with the kids, and if we need to build a school, we will.” The School
has input; they do their own planning and they are aware of development and density. We are trying to make traffic better, but it won’t be perfect. As far as drainage as concerned,
from a technical standpoint we are satisfied that this petitioner has met the burden of proof in maintaining their on-site drainage.
Tom Kutz with Centex said the sewers are coming up the western property line from the school area, and then the eastern property line of the bridge. The main interceptor sewer will
be located in this area.
Dianna Knoll moved to recommend approval of Docket No. 138-01 PP, The Lakes at Hayden Run Primary Plat. The motion was seconded by Norma Meighen and Approved 4-0.
6. Docket No. 139-01 PP; The Ridge at Hayden Run (Primary Plat)
The applicant seeks approval to plat a 105-lot residential subdivision on 74.347± acres. The site is located on the south side of West 141st Street approximately one-half mile west
of Towne Road. The site is zoned S-1/Residential.
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth & Associates, Inc. for Centex Homes.
Dave Warshauer, attorney, appeared before the Committee representing Centex Homes. There were four issues identified in the Staff Report, basically the same as before. One is to provide
a landscape plan and this has been done. The second was to provide a Traffic Impact Study—this has been discussed. The third item is in the form of Commitments, now provided to the
Department. The fourth item is the connectivity plan.
Three Subdivision Waivers have been filed and will be heard at public hearing in January.
Ron Houck commented he preferred to be taking action on this as a package, waivers and primary plat, rather than separately.
Dave Warshauer explained that the waivers were late being filed and do not result from any change in the plan or anything that was presented with the primary plat at the time it was
filed in October. The waivers have to do with the fact that the Thoroughfare Plan would identify a collector street running through this site. Because of the wetlands that exist on
the piece just approved, it cannot run up that property line. The overall plan was to take the collector and instead of running it up this property line, running it through the Lakes
at Hayden Run. It would then be picked up and continued through the Hamptons. The only need for the waiver is because the Subdivision Control Ordinance deals with the location of the
collector street. All three waivers relate to this same point.
Tom Kutz stated that because a 30-foot road is being provided instead of a 36 foot road collector, the cost of the additional 6 feet will be contributed to off-site roadway improvements.
Dave Warshauer said it is physically impossible to take the collector from the Lakes at Hayden Run to The Ridge at Hayden Run.
Ron Houck commented there were also comments of visual light pollution. Dave Warshauer responded the fixtures will be down-lighted, and a sample of the fixtures was shown.
In regard to drainage, apparently there is a field tile that runs into Mr. Boone’s property from the adjacent property and not to Mr. Boone’s liking. Mr. Warshauer said they would
not be running drainage through a field tile onto his property, and his drainage situation would improve with this development.
Tom Kutz said that all drainage on this site is funneled through the pond system, through The Hamptons to the southeast, per the County Surveyor’s master drainage plan.
Norma Meighen moved to approve Docket No. 139-01 PP, The Ridge at Hayden Run Primary Plat, seconded by Dianna Knoll. The motion was Approved 4-0.
7. Docket No. 140-01 PP; Shelborne Park (Primary Plat)
The applicant seeks approval to plat a 54-lot subdivision on 39.91± acres. The site is located on the north side of West 131st Street approximately one-quarter mile east of Shelborne
Road. The site is zoned S-1/Residential.
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth & Associates, Inc. for Roger L. Kessler.
Roger Kessler appeared before the Subdivision Committee representing Logan Limited. Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth was also in attendance.
The property consists of approximately 40 acres and 53 lots—a density of 1.3 units per acre. The open space consists of 14.8 acres. There were three issues raised at the Plan Commission
hearing. One is connectivity of the subdivision with other subdivisions in the area. This property has a collector road from the original Hayden Run, approved last year, that will
traverse the property between Shelborne Park and the Lakes of Hayden Run. The collector road is a 36 foot wide road.
The second question was the road impact commitment. A written commitment has been provided to the Department of Community Services that the petitioner is willing to install three feet
of pavement and three feet of shoulder and contribute the excess to the fund, or the petitioner will install two full lanes of pavement, and curb and gutter. The petitioner is also
a signatory to the traffic study that will help determine how to proceed.
The last issue was a landscape plan and compliance with the buffering requirements. In Scott Brewer’s absence, the petitioner met with Jon Dobosiewicz and discussed a landscape plan
that would adequately address the perimeter buffering issues as well as the open space issues. Everything has been set back from 131st Street to provide a park-like setting along 131st
Street as well as the park area within the subdivision for the use of the residents. There are 5 acres of woods existing at the north end of the property that will be left undisturbed
and protected during construction with a show fence. There are also two wetland areas in the wooded area, .45 acres each, for a total acreage of 9/10 of an acre of woodlands. A landscape
matrix was provided showing the perimeter buffer that would have been required under the Ordinance of 350 plantings. Pursuant to the plan submitted, there are 400 plantings dispersed
throughout the subdivision as well as perimeter buffering behind each lot in the subdivision.
It is believed that this adequately addresses the issues raised at the Plan Commission level.
Jon Dobosiewicz undertook to get Scott Brewer’s comments to the Committee along with the Committee report.
Ron Houck asked about the setback from 131st Street on the western portion; Dennis Olmstead responded it is more than 100 feet—Roger Kessler computed it at 125 feet.
Ron Houck commented that a large number of lots will not benefit directly from the open space—most are interior lots and clustered together such that the open space is not a benefit.
The lots on the end would be at a premium, (the north end next to the 5 acres) and the lots on the south end directly adjacent to the open space, particularly the pond, will also benefit.
From the community standpoint, it is a benefit.
Ron also asked about the trail connectivity—it does not show on the plat. Roger Kessler responded that the trail is shown along 131st Street and a trail that follows the collector
road. There will be a walking path through the woods that will not go into the wetlands. The trail is shown on the connectivity plan.
Dennis Olmstead said Centex has a trail that goes along the northern edge of Shelborne and the Ridge of Hayden Run. The trail is seen coming between the two wetlands and connecting
into the Centex trail and connectivity shown between Shelborne Park and the Centex development.
Jon Dobosiewicz requested the trails be labeled on the plat for purpose of reviewing at the Plan Commission. If the Committee forwards this back to the full Commission for Tuesday
evening, they will have a revised plat to act upon, complete with the revised trail.
Lighting: Public street lighting is not being provided; the petitioner is installing dusk-to-dawn lighting on the homes (post lights—photo cells.)
Dianna Knoll moved to recommend approval of Docket No. 140-01 PP, Shelborne Park Primary Plat. The motion was duly seconded by Norma Meighen and APPROVED 4-0.
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at 9:50 PM.
________________________
Ron Houck, Chairperson
______________________________
Ramona Hancock, Secretary