HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes COM 02-07-23 • Changing Facility
• Long Term bicycle parking
Winslow: Will you verify that this would not require variance?Hollibaugh: I will verify.
Motion: Christine Zoccola makes a motion to send to send back to the Full Plan Commission with a favorable
recommendation with the outlined commitments. Seconded by Adam Aasen.
A Motion made by Christine Zoccola and seconded by Adam Aasen to send PZ-2022-00237 DP/ADLS to the
Feb.21 Plan Commission meeting with a favorable recommendation. Approved 4-0.
4. Docket No.PZ-2022-00238 ADLS: Tru Hotel Carmel.
The applicant seeks design approval for a new,five story, 126 room hotel on 1.13 acres.Development plan
approval was granted under Docket No. 19060018 DP and Use Variance approval was granted under
18050007 UV. The site is located at 12164 N.Meridian Street, immediately north of the Ritz Charles.It is
zoned MC/Meridian Corridor and is not within any overlay district. Filed by Nathan Winslow of American
Structurepoint on behalf of the owner,Dora Hotel Group.
Petitioner:
Nathan Winslow: Presented and summarized.Added the existing monument sign on Illinois with a request that it be
modified with updated labeling to add the Tru Hotel.One of the biggest items outside architectural detail is the shared
parking, so we have included a shared parking analysis showing peak hour breakdowns(between 8-l0am and 3-5pm).
Based on this assessment there is a surplus of available parking.
Vince Dora: Biggest thing to highlight is off-time use,hotel typically 5pm-7am with people staying overnight
assuming we are 100%occupied versus Ritz Charles being full during the daytime, if there is a bigger event at night,
in theory,we would be working together assuming guests would be shared. Same thing with medical office,it is a
purely daytime use in comparison to hotel where guests are gone during the day and back at night.Aasen: In the
scenario where Ritz Charles has a big wedding with local people who are not staying at hotel and the hotel is booked
with Grand Park guests,if both are fully booked,how much space is available?Dora: This parking analysis didn't
include the Ritz Charles parking lot because we don't have an easement on their site. The parking we have is only on
the medical office building and the hotel.Aasen: So,if there is any issue it would be on the Ritz' side, spilling over to
your site,more than the other way around.Dora: Yes.
Winslow: Discussed correspondence with neighbors concerning the height of the building,as part of the original
development plan there was a request to densify the site;using number of stories as a measure is misleading.
Comparing to the surrounding buildings are listed as 3 stories,but the architecture extends up to about 60' which is
roughly in line with what our building is at 5 stories which is necessary from a financial standpoint.Lighting that is
adjacent to the neighborhood is existing,we are not adding additional lighting to the parking lot.New lighting will be
on the building and most of that will be directed away from the residential side,mostly towards Meridian St.and the
31 corridor.
John Hafner(virtual):
Revised filing which illustrates the result of the with Hilton, input from developer,etc. including revised exterior
elevations,3 additional renderings that better show what this will look like in 3D,and the original filing.
Elevations: feedback revolved around amending the exterior to make more sense to provide a more traditional base for
the building to sit on. There were objections to the asymmetric randomness of some of the features,having too much
EIFS,and not enough brick.
South Elevation: Compared old and new.Rachel expressed a dislike for the louvers that cover the guestroom AC units
to be so visible and objected to the random splash of blue color. Changed to:
• A uniform stone base material,a large format substantial base made up of larger masonry units.
• We are no longer interrupting the base with vertical elements,eliminated random splashes of blue color on both
ends,cleaned up the roofline so it makes more sense with the overall building massing,and added a panel system
(Trespo rain screen),which looks like metal panels,but much more durable, low maintenance and less susceptible
to weather.
• Introduced a new durable cementitious material,a fiber cement panel which comes'with a scored pattern for
texture and rhythm.
• Tried to pull the background colors together, so they are in gray tones on both bumped-out areas.
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• Cleaned-up the porte-cochere with the permission from Hilton to downplay the colors except at the entry area.
Hilton had a few sacred hallmarks which in their mind cannot be deviated from,but it has been seen done, so it
might be possible if you feel strongly about going back to Hilton saying it may be a deal breaker:those are entry
feature,the multi-color vertical bands,and the wedge feature.
• We will be custom coloring the louvres to match the adjacent wall fmish,we took the mullions out of the windows
to make them appear more clean,open,and modern.
Daytime rendering:we made more logical sense of the use of materials,provided a strong base statement,used strong
colors where Hilton requested,but the rest we have stayed with earth tones. There is EIFS left on building on some
areas.
Nighttime view:A concern brought forth at last meeting was to be careful of lights spilling towards neighborhood.
• We have no illuminated signage along the west façade
• We have some light highlighting the entry at pedestrian level,which is needed for occupant safety.
• We have kept it focused on a pedestrian scale which provides clues where to fmd the building entrance.
• We eliminated the potential glare of illuminating the edge on East elevation.It is our intent to have some LED
lighting inside the rain screen that will leak through the joints in it because they are open joints,but our
renderer didn't pick-up on lighting on wedge.
On our first pass we had 14.9% stone,48%EIFS, 13%metal panels,24%glass/metal doors and windows. On the
revised design we have 14%cultured stone,29%EIFS,32%fiber cement panel,less metal panels,and 24%doors and
windows.Looked at UDO and some of the language leaves room for interpretation,but we are within the requirements
and restrictions,much of that is subjective.Winslow:Reiterated need to update ground sign on Illinois to include
signage for the Tru Hotel.
Department Report: Mike Hollibaugh:
Staff is appreciative of efforts to make refinements to building and project.Coming from the Public Hearing,the
message was received by the petitioner and met immediately with Staff.The updated building is clearly an
Iimprovement.It is up to the Committee if it has moved far enough along. Staff has some Ordinance related comments
related to the architecture and John touched on those.We are still missing some key items related to bike parking,
questions related to lighting,some details are not understood on our part.Rachel is asking that we hold it and continue
working on refinements.
Committee Comments:
Dierckman:Please bring a rendering that turns building on four sides for the next meeting. I will not sign off on
colors,this is strictly branding in my view,the whole building is a sign.Maybe the sign and canopy but the third
element is not acceptable in my opinion.We need an understanding of what the color inside of the wedge will be, it
should be white,no branding.Underneath canopies, it must also be white light. The banding on the front, as a
directional element,I can pass that.
Winslow: The original rendering highlights the original intent of the lighting.Bright lights on the edge,would not be
visible.The cornerstone piece was a feature Rachel wanted.
Zoccola: Is there somewhere we can see an example of this?How much EIFS can we have?Vince: The True
Downtown has similar materials/features.
Hollibaugh:there is no max or min except of standards that it is not within 8' and that the building materials be high
quality and durable on all facades.Zoccola: We are down to 20%,can that be reduced.Vince: we need to be careful
on cost.EIFS is durable and it lasts as long as fiber cement panels.Zoccola: This is better,but not quite there yet.As
far as more buffering from the neighbors.Are there any plantings or trees on the Illinois street parking lot?Photo was
pulled up. There are no trees or area to plan trees.Kirsh: looked at this,there is no great solution. Street Department
has decided to no longer trim/top the bushes on the west side of Illinois to allow them to continue to grow above the
privacy wall.On the east side of Illinois there are too many utilities to be able to do substantial plantings. There are a
couple of spots where trees can be planted,there is a median that is tree lined.The issue is what is the view from 31 or
the perspective of neighbors from the 2°a floor.Zoccola: How do you shield residents?Kirsh: Trying to come up with
Ia solutions. How do we compromise to make this work in our city. Why do we have to have a portico on that side of
the building at all?Can we move the portico to the south side of the building.Can we make the west facing façade
very bland,basically the dark element with a lighter element running next to it for architectural detail but made basic.
There are plenty examples of Tru hotels without the color tiles,maybe we can shift tiles around the corners so you can
see them from 31,but not from Illinois. These are the kinds of compromises I would like to see.Dierckman: There is
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a long list of issues not met and that should not be the case.You need to design to meet the requirements.If they were
earth tones,but this is a billboard. This is as if the architect never read the requirements.We have focused for the past
25 years on making high quality decisions along that corridor,as designed this adds no value to the design and the
concept of Meridian St. We want quality.Zoccola: More work needs to be done.Aasen: Agree with the bands.It
should look good on all sides.I see many examples of the hotel not having it,I would encourage you to have that
conversation with Hilton. For me the big thing are the colors and lighting.There is still a question on the lighting on
sign. How bright is this,I want more information about that.If there is anything we can do on landscaping or on the
first floor to make it nicer as people come into the property.
Kirsh: The Committee will want you to do more work and come back.
Dora: As to the orientation for the entrance,as a hotelier trying to be hospitable to guest, it was important to shift the
entrance to the west,because that is where parking is.That extra 100-ft is a big deal for ease of entrance in inclement
weather.Additionally,the traffic flow patterns when you are trying to drop people off on the north facing entrance
between the medical office building and the hotel did not work well. We wanted to avoid an entrance on east along 31
because it is confusing as to how to get in,you see that today with the Ritz Charles building.Utilities are pulled within
5 or 10 feet of the where the building is going to go, it's pad ready. There is not enough space on the south side,and I
don't see a way to fixing that.
Winslow: It would take a major undertaking to make that change, it would be many agreements with the Ritz and
downtime for them due to a significant impact on their flow to their building.
Dora: On the west side,I thought we accomplished the blandness in that there are no lights on stairwell,no windows
on that side of building,this is minimal light pollution. We need lights on the ground floor of the building for safety
and welcoming feature.Dierckman: This is not an easy site;I respect what you are trying to achieve here.I am not too
concerned about that lighting.
Dora: Regarding the comments about the color of bands.I have no ability to affect Hilton's decision making and
design. With your support,I can take that to them to help change it.There are one or two Tru hotels with earth tones
checkered pattern in Grove City,Ohio.Zoccola: I would like to see that. Sometimes high-quality materials make a
difference,I am still struggling with the EIFS material.I will go look at it.As councilor Austin said,adding
landscaping would help visual.Winslow: We can look into that.Dubbie:Agree with all the points. What is the rack
rate.Dora: This is meant to be an economy brand by Hilton,but that is not what happened, it's been so successful that
Hilton has come up with another economy brand to replace this one.Dierckman: Grove looks better,Zoccola agrees.
Dora: northside Hotels are doing better than the downtown properties right now.Dubbie: Comparable to Hyatt place?
Vince:Above price,at the same level of condition.Kirsh: Do you need more information from us?Winslow: I am
clear.Hafner: I do not have any additional questions.I think Vince probably stated it clearly that we needed
something strong to go back to Hilton.Kirsh: We will table this until a future date.I want to see what it will look like
from adjoining neighborhoods,please provide that rendering. There is a small median between your parking lot and
the Ritz's overflow parking lot.Dora: It's a landscaped elevated hill.Kirsh: If there is any trees or landscaping that
can go there too or bushes.Vince: We are going to have a stairwell going down so we can connect the parking lots for
ease of access. Winslow: We have to make sure there are no utilities running there.
This item will continue at the March 7, 2023 Commercial Committee
Meeting ed at :06 PM.
Aliza Shalir/ Recording Secretary os ua Kirsh Committee Chair
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Commercial Committee Meeting Minutes 2-7-23