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KEELER-WEBB ASSOCIATES
Consulting EngineeU".-"
486 Gradle Drive
CARMEL, INDIANA 46032
[S~u1f~ @[? u~~~UYAJDuu&[S
(317) 574-0140
Fax (317) 574-1269
CITY OF CARl/jEL
DATE
June 15, 2001
JOB NO.
0102-014
ATTENTION
TO
Ramona
RE:
WE ARE SENDING YOU D Attached
D Under separate cover via
delivery
One Civic Sqaure
Cannel, Indiana 46032
>
o Shop drawings
o Prints
D Plans
o Samples
o Copy of letter
o Change order
o
COPIES DATE NO. DESCRIPTION
1 6/15/01 19 BZA Packets
THESE ARE TRANSMITTED as checked below:
o For approval 0 Approved as submitted
o For your use 0 Approved as noted
> o As requested 0 Returned for corrections
o For review and comment 0
o FOR BIDS DUE
REMARKS
D Resubmit
copies for approval
o Submit
copies for distribution
D Return
corrected prints
o PRINTS RETURNED AFTER LOAN TO US
COPY TO
SIGNED:
Adam DeHart, LS
If enclosures are not as noted, kindly notify us at once.
KEELER-WEBB ASSOCIATES
Consulting EngineerU
486 Gradle Drive
CARMEL, INDIANA 46032
(317) 574-0140
Fax (317) 574-1269
CITY OF CARMEL
[1rnuuU @[? u~~@UYAJDuu&[1
Carmel. Indiana 46032
DATE I JOB NO.
May 22. 2001 0102.-019
ATTENTION
Mr. Lawrence Lillig
RE:
96th street Professional Park
9750-9760 Handall Drive
TO
One Civic Square
WE ARE SENDING YOU KJ Attached
D Under separate cover via
messenger
the following items:
>
D Shop drawings
D Prints
D Plans
D Samples
D Specifications
D Copy of letter
D Change order
D
1
set
Revised Construction Documents
COPIES
DATE
NO.
DESCRIPTION
B
THESE ARE TRANSMITTED as checked below:
D For approval D Approved as submitted
QJ: For your use D Approved as noted
> QJ: As requested D Returned for corrections
D For review and comment D
D FOR BIDS DUE
REMARKS
D Resubmit
copies for approval
D Submit
copies for distribution
o Return
corrected prints
D PRINTS RETURNED AFTER LOAN TO US
COPY TO
Adam DeHart. LS
SIGNED:
If enclosures are not as noted, kindly notify us at once.
;1
05/23/01 15:38 FAX
W
HAMILTON CO HWY. ~~~ Carmel DOCD
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HAMILTON COUNTY
HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT
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May 23, 2001
Mr. Adam DeHart, l.S.
Keeler - Webb Associates
486 Gradle Drive
Carmel. Indiana 46032
RE: ~:F8ffltS.jf
Plot Plan
N of 9611I Street I e of Towne Road
Clay Township
Dear Mr. DeHart:
This letter serves to acknowledge receipt of 8 transmittal containing the Lucky Farms Plot Plan. After
I'8viewlng the plans. the Highway Department has the following comments:
1. In accordance with the Hamilton County Thoroughfare Plan, the Highway Department requests
the dedication a 70' half right of way. I have enclosed the Dedication documents for your use.
2. If the original drive/entrance is to be used, no permits wnt be required from this offlce. If the
driveway is to be relocated. then permits will need to be applied for.
If you have any comments or questions regarding this letter or project. please feel free to contact me at
any time. Thank you for your attention and cooperation.
7i~~
Staff Engineer
cc: Laurence Lillig, Jr.
G;\USERS\SB\2001Tao\05-Z4-01.b.doCl
1700 South 10'k Street
NoblesvUle, In. 46060
www.co.hamllton.iD.us
Oftlce (311) 773-7770
Fax (317) 776-9814
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Dobosiewicz, Jon C
From:
Sent:
To:
Cc:
Subject:
John R. Molitor uohnrmolitor@prodigy.net]
Monday, May 21, 2001 1 :32 PM
Dobosiewicz, Jon C
Hollibaugh, Mike P
RE: Lucky Farms Riding Stable
'-
Jon -
I did not realize that the subdivision had not been through Secondary Plat
approval.
If the applicant does not intend to meet the setbacks on the Primary Plat,
then this Plat should be withdrawn from further consideration. The process
for this would involve asking the Plan Commission to rescind its approval of
the Primary Plat.
If the BZA wants to approve the Special Use, it should make rescission of
the Primary Plat approval a condition of its approval.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Dobosiewicz, Jon C [mailto:JDobosiewicz@ci.carmel.in.us]
Sent: May 21, 2001 1:09 PM
To: 'johnrmolitor@prodigy.net'
Subject: RE: Lucky Farms Riding Stable (SU-62-01)
John,
So I am Clear. Does the applicant need to meet the setbacks as identified
in the Primary Plat for the real estate? This area of the subdivision has
not been through Secondary Plat. I think the concern is that the
construction of the proposed structure at the present location would be
within future right of way for the subdivision.
Jon
-----Original Message-----
From: John R. Molitor [mailto:johnrmolitor@prodigy.net]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 10:49 AM
To: Lillig, Laurence Mi Dobosiewicz, Jon Ci Hollibaugh, Mike P
Subject: RE: Lucky Farms Riding Stable (SU-62-01)
Re Laurence's question whether the BZA can override an earlier plat
approval:
In my opinion, BZA approval of a Special Use would not supersede the primary
plat for an existing subdivision. Of course, the petitioner could also ask
for variances from the applicable development standards (if they are needed
to accommodate the stable improvements).
But, in general, any improvements to be made on lots created by the plat
would have to conform to all setbacks and other requirements.
I don't think there is a problem with allowing different land uses (both
residential and stable). Assuming approval of the Special Use for this
parcel, an owner would essentially be able to choose whether to build the
stable as approved, or build a residence (which is allowed by right) .
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Lillig, Laurence M [mailto:LLillig@ci.carmel.in.us]
Sent: May 19, 2001 11:47 AM
To: Dobosiewicz, Jon Ci Hollibaugh, Mike P
Cc: John R. Molitor (E-mail)
Subject: Lucky Farms Riding Stable (SU-62-01)
Informational packets were not received by the Department by close of
1
.. b~stness on Friday, May 1U001. We should recommend thatQis
tabled to the June 25, 2001, meeting.
Item be
This one is also an open question because it is on land that has an existing
Primary Plat for the Treesdale Subdivision. An ILP has already been issued
for the project.
I advised Adam DeHart at TAC that Treesdale was probably going to have to go
back to the Plan Commission for a PP Amend regarding the length of the
"temporary" cul-de-sac that doesn't seem very temporary any more.
Furthermore, there's some question in my mind as to whether this approval by
the BZA would supercede the Primary Plat approval, or whether two approvals
for divergent land uses can exist simultaneously on the same parcel of land.
Probably better that we have the additional month on this one. I'm not
prepared to comment on these issues in a report.
Laurence M. Lillig, Jr.
Planning & Zoning Administrator
Department of Community Services
City of Carmel
One Civic Square
Carmel, IN 46032
Phone: 317.571.2417
Fax: 317.571.2426
llillig@ci.carmel.in.us
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Dobosiewicz, Jon C
From:
Sent:
To:
Cc:
Subject:
Lillig, Laurence M
Saturday, May 19, 2001 11 :47 AM
Dobosiewicz, Jon C; Hollibaugh, Mike P
John R. Molitor (E-mail)
Lucky Farms Riding Stabl~~
Informational packets were not received by the Department by close of business on Friday, May 18, 2001. We should
recommend that this Item be tabled to the June 25, 2001, meeting.
This one is also an open question because it is on land that has an existing Primary Plat for the Treesdale Subdivision. An
ILP has already been issued for the project.
I advised Adam DeHart at TAC that Treesdale was probably going to have to go back to the Plan Commission for a PP
Amend regarding the length of the "temporary" cul-de-sac that doesn't seem very temporary any more.
Furthermore, there's some question in my mind as to whether this approval by the BZA would supercede the Primary Plat
approval, or whether two approvals for divergent land uses can exist simultaneously on the same parcel of land.
Probably better that we have the additional month on this one. I'm not prepared to comment on these issues in a report.
Laurence M. Lillig, Jr.
Planning & Zoning Administrator
Department of Community Services
City of Cannel
One Civic Square
Carmel, IN 46032
Phone: 317.571.2417
Fax: 317.571.2426
llillig@ci.cannel.in.us
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City of Carmel
Fire Department Headquarters
2 CIVIC SQUARE
CARMEL, INDIANA 46032
317/571-2600
!
RECEIVED
HAY 15 2001
DOCS
Adam DeHart, LS.
Keeler-Webb Associates
486 Gradle Dr.
Carmel, IN 46032
RE: Lucky Farms
LETTER OF APPROVAL
The undersigned has reviewed the proposed plans for
Lucky Farms
and has approved the plans subject to the following:
1. Is the proposed project to be a sprinklered building? If so a meeting will need to be arranged to
determine the location of the fire department connection.
2. If the building is sprinklered we would request a Knox box be installed for fire department
emergency access.
3.
4.
5.
6.
Date: Mav 14. 2001
By: Gary Hoyt, Fire Marshal
Carmel Fire Department
Fire Prevention Saves Lives and Property
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CITY OF CARMEL
Department of Community Services
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One Civic Square
Carmel, IN 46032
(317) 571-2417
Fax: (317) 571.2426
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KEELER-WEBB ASSOCIATES
Consulting Engineev
486 Gradle Drive .
CARMEL, INDIANA 46032
(317) 574-0140
Fax (317) 574-1269
[1~uuU @[? u~~@[M]Duu&[1
TO
CITY OF CARMEL DOCS
DATE JOB NO.
May 4, 2001 0102-014
ATTENTION
Mr. Lawrence Lil1ig
RE:
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Lucky Fanus
9911 Towne Road
WE ARE SENDING YOU 0 Attached
o Under separate cover via
delivery
the following items:
>
o Shop drawings
o Prints
o Plans
o Samples
o Specifications
o Copy of letter
o Change order
o
r
I
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COPIES DATE NO. DESCRIPTION
2 5/3/01 1 Findings of Fact
2 5/4/01 1 Affidavit
2 5/3/01 3 Public Notice
1 5/3/01 1 CheCk for $630.00
THESE ARE TRANSMITTED as checked below:
o For approval 0 Approved as submitted
fu For your use 0 Approved as noted
> o As requested 0 Returned for corrections
fu For review and comment 0
o FOR BIDS DUE
REMARKS
o Resubmit
copies for approval
o Submit
copies for distribution
o Return
corrected prints
o PRINTS RETURNED AFTER LOAN TO US
COpy TO
SIGNED:
Adam DeHart
If enclosures are not as noted, kindly notify us at once.
-1
KEELER-WEBB ASSOCIATES
Consulting Engineers U
486 Gradle Drive
CARMEL, INDIANA 46032
(317) 574-0140
Fax (317) 574-1269
CITY OF CARMEL DOCS
[1~LfLf[L) @[? LfW&~@UYiJDuu&[1
Carmel, Indiana 46032
DATE I JOBOI02_014
April 30, 2001
ATTENTION
~1r . Lawrence Li1!ig
RE:
Lucky Farms
9911 Towne Road
TO
One Civic Square
>
D.Shop drawings
o Prints
o Plans
o Samples
the 'followin~ 1iem~:
A ',-'~
[1L1)pecificati6ns
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WE ARE SENDING YOU D Attached
D Under separate cover via
delivery
o Copy of letter
o Change order
o
-- I
COPIES DATE NO. DESCRIPTION ..- i'/
/':."/
./f,. .~?
.--""'. '\ <'
Color Rendering ,,','\Y'
1 1 _.~~ /
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1 1 FBi Brochure
THESE ARE TRANSMITTED as checked below:
o For approval 0 Approved as submitted
IX For your use 0 Approved as noted
> o As requested 0 Returned for corrections
ex For review and comment 0
o FOR BIDS DUE
REMARKS
o Resubmit
copies for approval
o Submit
copies for distribution
o Return
corrected prints
o PRINTS RETURNED AFTER LOAN TO US
COPY TO
SIGNED:
Adam DeHart, LS
If enclosures are not as noted, kindly notify us at once,
KEELER-WEBB ASSOCIATES
Consulting Engineer("- ')
486 Gradle Drive ....
CARMEL, INDIANA 46032
[1~uuO @[? u~~@UYAJDuu&[1
(317) 574-0140
Fax (317) 574-1269
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CITY OF CARMEL, DCCS
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Cannel, Indiana 46032
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ril 27, 2001
JOB NO.
0102-014
ATTENTION
Mr. Laurence Lillig
RE:
Lucky Fanns
9919 Towne Road
G:asrmel, Indiana
WE ARE SENDING YOU 0 Attached
o Under separate cover via
delivery
the following items:
>
D Shop drawings
D Prints
o Plans
D Samples
D Specifications
D Copy of letter
D Change order
o
COPIES DATE NO. DESCRIPTION
2 4/25/01 5 Special Use Applications
2 4/26/01 1 Plot Plan
2 3/6/01 2 Floor Plan & Elevations
THESE ARE TRANSMITTED as checked below:
D For approval
D Approved as submitted
D Resubmit
copies for approval
B For your use
D Approved as noted
o Submit
copies for distribution
>
B . As requested
D Retumed for corrections
o Return
corrected prints
D For review and comment
D
D FOR BIDS DUE
D PRINTS RETURNED AFTER LOAN TO US
REMARKS
Itans to be forwarded as soon as possible
-Findings of fact
-Color rendering
-Color brochure of identical building
-Pictures of previous riding stable
-Adjoiners List
-Notice requirements
-Parcel No.
SIGNED:
Adam DeHart, LS
COPY TO
If enclosures are not as noted, kindly notify us at once.
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RE: Craig Dobbs - Lucky Farms, LLC -Real Estate located on Towne Road at
approximately 103rd Street - under the jurisdiction of the Carmel-Clay Township
Zoning Ordinance - Review of site plan for zoning compliance/permit issuance.
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MEMORANDUM
TO:
Joseph M. Scimia
Edward J. Mitro 1;<</
FROM:
DATE:
February 5, 2001
The following memo provides my review of the site plan and building elevations for a proposed new barn
to be constructed for Craig Dobbs within the jurisdiction of the Carmel-Clay Township Zoning
Ordinance in Hamilton County, IN.
I reviewed the site plan and building elevations provided by Mr. Dobbs for compliance with the filing
requirements for an Improvement Location Permit ("ILP") of the City of Carmel and Clay Township
Department of Community Services and for compliance with the Carmel-Clay Zoning Ordinance (the
"Ordinance").
Deficiencies related to the site plan:
The filing requirements require a site plan, drawn to scale and with dimensions noted, which shows
!h~ trQPoseQjocation and dimensions of the new barn, right-of-wa lines for streets and setback,S
from property lines. was provI e WIt an ongma re racement surVey" of the subject property.
-r:hls survey will not suffice for the filing and review of an application for an ILP, as none of the
above noted elements are shown/noted on the survey. (Exhibit 1).
In discussions with Mr. Dobbs, I obtained the necessary setback information and dimensions of the
proposed barn, including building elevations, in order to perform a zoning ordinance review of the
proposal.
The building elevations and floor plan appear adequate for inclusion in the filing of an application for an
Improvement Location Permit (Exhibit 2).
Zonin~ Review of the Proposal.
'"
Background:
The subject real estate is zoned t
The subject real estate is owned by "Lucky F~t,LLC".
':-.~
From my conversations with Mr. Dobbs, I understand that the proposal involves the removal of an
existing barn and replacement with a proposed new barn (the "barn"). The barn will be located ten to
fifteen feet south of the north property line and have a front setback which lines up with an existing barn
located on real estate abutting to the north. The barn contains approximately 12,096 square feet. The
use/purpose of the barn is for the breeding of horses. The subject real estate (the "real estate") itself is a
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separate metes and bounds parcel, but abuts three other parcels owned by "Lucky Farms, LLC". The real
estate contains approximately 5.93 acres. The abutting parcels owned by Lucky Farms, LLC contain
approximately 33.5 acres. The Lucky Farms, LLC real estate abutting to the north is used as a Riding
Stable (Exhibit 3).
The S-l District permits a:
Single-family dwelling.
Farm (permitted in all zoning districts), by Section 28.7.3 ofthe Ordinance. The definition of
"Farm"is contained in Section 3.7 of the Ordinance.
The production (Raising) of Livestock (Definition of "Farm", Section 3.7 of the Ordinance). Horses
are considered "Livestock" by the definition of "Liv.estock" - Section 3.7 of the Ordinance.
The following information also is relevant:
A "Riding Stable" is a permitted Special Use in the S-l District (Section 5.2 of the Ordinance),
requiring Special Use approval from the Carmel-Clay Township Board of Zoning Appeals.
The Ordinance definition of "Subdivision" (Section 3.7 of the Ordinance) contains the following
provision:
"(2) The improvement (before January 1,2000) of one (1) or more parcels ofland for residential,
commercial or industrial structures or groups of structures involving the subdivision and allocation
of land as streets or other open spaces for common use by owners, occupants or lease holders or as
easements for the extension and maintenance of public sewer, water, storm drainage, or other public
utilities and facilities..."
The Ordinance definition of "Lot" (Section 3.7 of the Ordinance) is:
"A portion of a subdivision or other parcel of land intended as a unit for transfer or ownership or
development and having its principal frontage on a street."
Finally, no record of Special Use approval exists for the Riding Stable abutting to the north of the real
estate. In discussion with the staff of the City of Carmel and Clay Township Department of Community
Services (the "Staff') , it appears that the Riding Stable probably is a legally-established nonconforming
use due to the length oftime the facility has been in place (prior to 1980). Staff researched records
dating back to 1980. The Ordinance in place in 1980 did, as it does now, require Riding Stables to obtain
Special Use approval.
Mr. Dobbs noted that he considers the real estate separate from the abutting propertylRiding Stable to the
north, and therefore, it is his belief that the construction of a barn on the real estate constitutes a primary
use - that of a "Farm" - and that Special Use approval is not required.
Zoning Issues/Concerns:
The following zoning issues/concerns exist as a result of the particular situation and information
described above:
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If it is determined by the Staff that the subject real estate (Le. the 5.93 acre parcel), is separate from the
abutting Riding Stable and constitutes a separate "Lot", then the argument can be made that the barn
would be the primary use of a "Farm". Under this interpretation, no Special Use approval would be
required.
However, this interpretation could be challenged based upon the definition of "Lot". Because the real
estate will be owned by Lucky Farms, LLC, which also owns the abutting land to the north, the real
estate can be interpreted as a part of a "Lot". The specific Ordinance language at issue is "a portion of a
subdivision of other parcel of land intended as a unit for transfer of ownershio or development...". The
Staff may interpret, therefore, that because the real estate and that abutting to the north are both owned
by Lucky Farms, LLC ~nd because both parcels include activities related to "horses", then the entirety of
the Lucky Farms, LLC holdings is considered one "Lot" for zoning purposes, including the subject real
estate.
If the latter interpretation is made, then the removal of the existing barn and the construction of a new
barn would cause any existing nonconforming status of the real estate to be lost. This conclusion is
consistent with the provisions of Section 28.1.6 of the Ordinance, which states:
"Existing uses eligible for special use approval shall not be considered legal nonconforming uses
nor require special use approval for continuance but shall require special use approval for any
alteration, enlargement or extension."
Clearly, the removal of an existing barn on the real estate and replacement with a new barn in a new
location falls within this provision.
It appears unclear as to whether the Staff would issue an ILP for the new barn. Mr. Dobbs could proceed
forward with an application for an ILP, with the additional site plan documentation noted in this memo.
However, there is a likelihood that his application will be denied based upon an interpretation by Staff
that the entirety of the Lucky Farms, LLC holdings constitute one "Lot" for zoning purposes, and
therefore the primary use of the property is a "Riding Stable". If that interpretation is made by Staff, Mr.
Dobbs would be required to file an application for and obtain Special Use approval by the Carmel-Clay
Board of Zoning Appeals for an "alteration, enlargement or extension" to the use.
If you have any questions, or if! can provide additional information, please let me know.
cc: Donald Bennett