HomeMy WebLinkAboutBPW Minutes 11.15.23Board of Public Works and Safety Meeting
Minutes
Wednesday, November 15, 2023 – 10:00 a.m.
Council Chambers City Hall, One Civic Square
MEETING CALLED TO ORDER
Mayor James Brainard called the meeting to order at 10:02 AM.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Mayor James Brainard, Board Members Mary Ann Burke and Lori Watson, and Deputy Clerks Jessica
Komp and Jessica Dieckman were present.
MINUTES
Minutes from the November 1, 2023 Regular Meeting. Board Member Burke moved to approve. Board
Member Watson seconded. Mayor Brainard abstained, as he was not present at the November 1, 2023
Meeting. Minutes were approved 2-0.
BID OPENING AND AWARD
Bid Opening for 23-STR-09 Tarkington Lighting
Lori Watson opened the bids and Mayor Brainard read them aloud:
Contractor Quote
Frederick’s, Inc. $725,000.00
James Babcock, Inc. $840,500.00
Barth Electric Co., Inc. $703,038.00
Quote Opening for 23-STR-11 Asphalt Repairs
Lori Watson opened the bid and Mayor Brainard read it aloud:
Contractor Quote
Howard Companies $15.50/sq yd, total of $137,175.00
PERFORMANCE BOND REDUCTION APPROVAL REQUEST
Resolution BPW 11-15-23-03; Bond Release for Culver’s Carmel; Erosion Control; Board Member
Burke moved to approve. Board Member Watson seconded. Resolution approved 3-0.
CONTRACTS
Mayor Brainard asked Board Members Burke and Watson if they opposed waiting until the end of the
meeting to address the first five contracts on the agenda. The Board did decide to proceed with the
remaining agenda items before addressing the first five contracts on the agenda.
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Request for Purchase of Goods and Services; Hoosier Fire Equipment, Inc.; ($696,989.25); Fire
Department Gear; Additional Services Amendment; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member
Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request for Purchase of Goods and Services; Kentwood Office Furniture, Inc.; ($14,269.32); Office
Furniture; Additional Services Amendment; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson
seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request for Purchase of Goods and Services; Touchphrase Development, LLC d/b/a Julota;
($15,246.26); Mental Health Software for CFD and CPD; Board Member Burke moved to approve.
Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Resolution 11-15-23-01; Request for Acknowledgement of Contract between City and Vendor;
GovernmentJobs.com, Inc. d/b/a NEOGov; ($10,573.20); Annual Subscription Renewal; Additional
Services Amendment; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded. Resolution
approved 3-0.
Request for Purchase of Goods and Services; The Center for the Performing Arts; ($3,033.25);
Facility Rental and Professional Services for Event; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member
Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request for Purchase of Goods and Services; The Taylor Realty Group, P.C.; ($4,380.00); 20-ENG-
04-S College Avenue Reconstruction, Parcel #4 -APA, Parcels #5 & #6 – Second Appraisals;
Additional Services Amendment; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded.
Request approved 3-0.
Resolution 11-15-23-02; Request for Acknowledgement of Contract between City and Vendor; The
Seward Johnson Atelier; ($253,000.00); Purchase and Design Fees for Sculpture; Board Member
Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded. Resolution approved 3-0.
Request for Goods and Services; Mainscape, Inc.; ($102,700.00); Janitorial Services for
Christkindlmarkt; Additional Services Amendment; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member
Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
REQUEST TO USE CITY STREETS/PROPERTY
Request to Use/Close City Streets, Use Monon & Main Plaza and Use Sophia Square Restrooms; Art
of Wine Festival; May 18, 2024; 8:00 AM – 10:00 PM; Board Member Burke moved to approve.
Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request to Use Additional Parking Spaces on 3rd Avenue on Specific Dates; Carmel Christkindlmarkt;
November 24 & 25, 2023 – All Day; December 8, 9, 15, 16, & 17, 2023 – All Day; December 10, 2023
from 11 AM – 3PM; December 18, 2023 from 12:00 AM – 12:00 PM; Board Member Burke moved to
approve. Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request for Occasional Vehicle Access on the Monon Trail; Carmel Christkindlmarkt; November 13 –
December 31, 2023; Various Hours for Daily Vendor Access and Special Delivery Access; Board
Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
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Request to Use Civic Square Gazebo/Lawn; Diwali Event; November 25, 2023; 4:00 PM – 9:00 PM;
Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request for Acknowledgement of Approval to Use Civic Square Fountain Area & Restroom, Civic
Square Gazebo/Lawn, and Japanese Garden; Wedding; November 11, 2023; 11:30 AM – 1:30 PM;
Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request to Use Midtown Plaza; Outdoor Holiday Music Event; December 7, 2024; 1:00 PM – 5:00
PM; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request to Use Parking Spots for Holiday Trolley; Carmel Holiday Trolley; Fridays & Saturdays from
November 24 – December 23, 2023; 5:00 PM – 9:00 PM on Fridays, 2:00 PM – 9:00 PM on
Saturdays; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request to Use/Close City Streets and Use Sophia Square Restrooms; Street Party; June 15, 2024;
2:00 PM – 1:00 AM; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded. Request
approved 3-0.
Request to Use/Close City Streets and Use Sophia Square Restrooms; Street Party; July 20, 2024; 2:00
PM – 1:00 AM; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded. Request
approved 3-0.
OTHER
Request for Secondary Plat; Five-Ten Subdivision; Tom Lazzara, Custom Living USA – TABLED on
10/4/23, REMAINS TABLED.
Request for Waiver of BPW Resolution No. 04-28-17-01 and Lane Restriction; Installation of New
Wood Mid-Span Pole; Alderbrook Trail; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson
seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request for Consent to Encroach and Variance; 14159 Kodiak Drive; Board Member Burke moved to
approve. Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request for Curb Cut and Curb Cut Vacation; 441 2nd Ave NE; Board Member Burke moved to
approve. Member Watson seconded. Request approved 3-0.
Request for Grant of Perpetual Storm Water Quality Management Easement; 111th & Springmill Road
– The Steadman Apartments; Board Member Burke moved to approve. Member Watson seconded.
Request approved 3-0.
ADD-ONS
Board Member Burke moved to add three add-on items to the agenda, which are all related to
upcoming Palladiscope shows. Member Watson seconded. Approved 3-0.
Master Agreement, Work Order and Maintenance Agreement with Blockhouse Studios, LLC
Carmel Community Relations and Economic Development Department and Carmel Redevelopment
Commission request the approval of three contracts with Blockhouse Studios. The Master Services
Agreement will govern the ordering and production of all shows going forward. The Work Order sets
the delivery and payment terms for the upcoming Christkindlmarkt and the Festival of Ice shows. The
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Maintenance Agreement is for the Palladiscope projection equipment. Presented by Sergey
Grechukhin, Corporation Counsel.
Board Member Burke moved to approve the Master Agreement. Member Watson seconded. Approved
3-0.
Board Member Burke moved to approve the Work Order in the amount of $50,000.00, payable by the
Community Relations and Economic Development Department. The Carmel Redevelopment
Commission will pay the remaining balance. Member Watson seconded. Approved 3-0.
Board Member Burke moved to approve the Maintenance Agreement in the amount of $33,272.00.
Member Watson seconded. Approved 3-0.
RESOLUTIONS REQUESTING THE APPROVAL OF PRIF CREDIT AGREEMENTS
The Board next addressed the first five contracts on the agenda, all requests for approval of Parks and
Recreation Impact Fees (PRIF) credit agreements. Mayor Brainard first spoke briefly to those in the
Chambers about his displeasure with accusations of policy not being properly followed. He stated that
all of these agreements have been fully vetted and are being executed correctly. Being that there were
several people in the Chambers who wished to address the Board, Mayor Brainard broke with typical
meeting protocol by allowing anyone who wished to speak to do so. The first to speak was
Councilperson-Elect and Township Board Member Matt Snyder.
Mr. Snyder stated that he was speaking in his capacity as a Member of the Township Board. Mr.
Snyder initially agreed with the concept of PRIF credit agreements, as he understood that those fees
would go to the Park Department. As those fees began to be diverted from the Park Department, Mr.
Snyder didn’t object, because he believed the fees were going towards amenities that make Carmel the
best city in the United States, such as the Monon Boulevard and its assets, and enhancements to our
downtown developments. However, he does oppose the $4.7 million PRIF credit for the 111th and
Pennsylvania development. PRIF credits have been going to the urban core, but that location is not
part of the urban core. Mr. Snyder stated that in the past 5 years we’ve put $40 million into the parks
and in the past 20 years we’ve put over $150 million into the parks, all borrowed on the backs of the
taxpayers. The Park Department has many initiatives that it would like to accomplish going forward
and if we could do that without taking the money from the taxpayers, by using the PRIF credits in the
way they were set up to work, he believes that is the prudent move. Mr. Snyder is not saying or
inferring that the city has done anything illegal. The township has conferred with two independent
legal counsels who are of the opinion that the process might not be being followed exactly as it should
be, in regard to cash payments to the CRC, or assets not being transferred from developers to the city.
Mr. Snyder stated that speaking on behalf of the township, they would like to see these Impact Fees go
where they were intended, to be used to build out such parks as Thomas Marcuccilli and other things
in the Parks Master Plan.
Mayor Brainard asked if anyone else would like to speak. The next person to speak was President of
the Parks Board, and Councilperson-Elect Rich Taylor.
Mr. Taylor stated that there had been a presentation by Michael Klitzing, Director of the Park
Department the previous evening. During the presentation, the legal opinion of attorney Brian Bosma
was shared regarding PRIF credits, and how the manner in which the funds are being applied is not
correct, according to the city’s ordinance and the state statute. Mr. Taylor also provided a copy of the
resolution that was unanimously approved by the Parks Board, requesting how impact fees should be
handled in the future. Mr. Taylor shared that Mr. Klitzing had not been made aware of the Park
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Impact Fees that are on today’s agenda by Henry Mestetsky of the CRC or by other staff, but through
the media. The presentation also showed ways in which impact fees had been used by the CRC which
don’t seem to fit the definition of park improvements or amenities. Mr. Taylor stated that there are
really 3 matters to be addressed: 1.) What is the definition of a park amenity or a park improvement?
There is disagreement on that between the parks board and the parks staff. 2.) The Parks Department
has legal counsel, which also happens to represent the township, that believes that when a credit is
applied, and the developer pays that same amount to the CRC, that money is not a wash, it is still an
impact fee and should be used within the allowed uses of the impact fees under the 2010 ordinance and
the state statute. 3.) These $5 million dollars of cash payments that are on the today’s agenda were not
disclosed to the Director of the Parks Department, he found out from a news reporter. Mr. Taylor
wrapped up by asking the Board to read and consider the resolution passed by the Parks Board and to
table these agenda items until they can be discussed further and have a resolution to the three issues
he addressed.
Jim Garretson, 9-year member of the Park Department Board, spoke next. He spoke of the Park
Department being mandated to not lose money on the Monon Community Center, which they haven’t
other than during the pandemic, but they did have reserves to cover that loss. Mr. Garretson is
concerned with issues such as Fishers getting township money that we were getting for the parks. Also,
school starting earlier every year affects the revenue at the Water Park, which is their main source of
revenue. He stated that our source of revenue is declining. We were hoping that these PRIF funds
would replace some of that, but we are losing that to the CRC. This year the CRC has gotten twice as
much as the Parks Department. Mr. Garretson is concerned that the Parks is running out of money,
and there is no plan to replace it, other than these PRIF funds. Mr. Garretson asked if they could have
more time to further discuss the matter before the Board takes action.
Mayor Brainard asked if anyone else would like to speak. No one wished to speak. Mayor Brainard
asked if there was a motion to move agenda item 4.a. off the table and into business. There was no
motion. Mayor Brainard made a motion to remove it from the table and asked for a second, but no one
seconded the motion.
Mayor Brainard stated that he had comments to make. He corrected one thing Mr. Garretson said
about the lifeguards and the operating expenses of the Monon Center. Impact fees may not be used for
operating expenses, whether by the Parks Board or anybody else. They can only be used for capital
improvements, which are purchases of something new, not maintenance of something that already
exists. So the impact fees do not affect operating expenses. He then went on to explain some of the
history of the Park Department. When Mayor Brainard was elected in 1995, Carmel had 1.5 full-time
park employees and 41 acres of park land, 20 of which they operated, and 20 of which had been turned
over to the county parks. Today the Parks Department operates over 800 acres, and the city operates
several hundred acres as well. Over the last 28 years Carmel has worked hard to have an award-
winning parks department. The city has also done something that most suburban cities do not do,
which is to have a very traditional downtown core. The great cities of the world that were built before
the invention of the automobile were studied, and they all have smaller public plazas and parks
throughout those cities. When a developer is asked to give up a portion of their development to be
devoted to a public space, that is real money the developer is contributing to that project.
The Mayor stated that he came to Mr. Westermeier when he was still Executive Director of the Parks
Department and asked him for help with the urban parks. After conferring with the Park Board, the
Mayor was told that the Park Department did not have much interest in working on the urban parks. It
was decided that the developers should be responsible for the urban parks. Mayor Brainard stated that
he didn’t think that was fair, because the developers are already paying park impact fees, so to ask
them to then also pay for the parks is really doubling the amount they are asked to pay. Mayor
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Brainard believes that in the urban core, when impact fees are used, they should be used in those
areas, and not taken from the urban core to be used in suburban areas.
In 2020, the Mayor asked Carmel’s Corporation Counsel to review this issue. Our counsel went
through all areas of state law, applicable statutes, and applicable local laws, to write a memo laying
out exactly how this could be done legally and properly under state law and local ordinances. Mayor
Brainard is comfortable with that memo, and with how PRIF funds have been handled. He does not
agree with Mr. Bosma’s interpretation. State law is broad as to how this happens, but the key thing is
that it must go to infrastructure. Every penny that has been expended by the CRC has gone to capital
items and not to maintenance, and that is the distinction that is made in the statute.
In regard to the 111th and Penn development, along US 31 we have a very underutilized area. Most of
the development there is from the 1980’s, with large office buildings taking up 20% of the space,
surrounded by ugly asphalt parking lots. What most progressive cities are doing today is turning those
empty parking lots into urban villages. We have made agreements with the developers after long,
protracted negotiations, including having green spaces and public plazas and parks in these newly
developed areas, which are vital to those neighborhoods and the adjacent areas.
Board Member Mary Ann Burke asked if she could speak. She stated that she loves Indiana, and that
Carmel was a beautiful small city. Ms. Burke agreed that we needed to grow, but she worries that
we’ve lost part of our Carmel charm in letting so many apartments, condos and townhouses be built.
Board Member Lori Watson stated that they have studied the types of housing that younger people
want to live in, and there are many who do not want the outdoor work required of single-family homes.
Many want a simplified lifestyle, which an apartment or condo can provide. Member Watson is not
opposed to this type of development per se, but she has been contacted by numerous citizens regarding
their concern about the legality of these developments and their use of PRIF credits. For these
reasons, Ms. Watson would like to take the next few weeks to address these issues before making a
decision.
Mayor Brainard stated that he invited Mr. Klitzing into his department head meetings some time ago,
which are held a minimum of twice a month, sometimes weekly. These large projects are discussed
during these meetings, because they involve various government departments, with discussions from
the police response standpoint, the fire and EMS standpoint, to ingress and egress and the amount of
money needed to get cars in and out appropriately. So these projects are not a surprise. The Mayor
stated that Mr. Klitzing and Mr. Mestetsky also meet on a regular basis.
Mayor Brainard also wanted to address park financing. He met with Mr. Hensel, township trustee over
a year ago. The Mayor asked our fiscal advisor, Curt Coonrod, to prepare a demonstration of how the
township could choose to make up some of the funds that are being lost through the payoff of the LIT
bonds because the laws have changed. He asked Mr. Hensel to take that proposal and discuss it with
the Park board and move ahead with it. But this has not happened, which could have solved a lot of the
funding issues Parks now faces. With the laws having changed, there is just not enough money to fund
the parks the way we have been supporting them. Also, with the Pedcor project at 111th, this will be
built over the next 12-15 years. The impact fees will be paid as the permits are pulled, they’re not paid
upfront. So this money would not fund the suburban parks in the way some would hope, any time soon.
This is not money that can be borrowed against, it can only be spent as it comes in over the years.
Mayor Brainard stated that if we want to continue to develop parks, we’re going to have to look at a
dedicated fund for operations and capital expenditures, outside of the city budget. Homeowners are
capped at 1%, our business taxes are far lower than our surrounding entities, this will probably have
to be asked of the voters through a referendum. The impact fees are not the solution. Further, if we did
not grant these credits to the developers, we would end up with less than desirable developments,
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because they would be lacking the green and public spaces that make this urban density palatable and
beautiful. Mayor Brainard stated that he does not mind tabling these items until the next meeting. But
we have made agreements with the developers. The investment is contingent upon that, and we need to
proceed with these. The next city council may want to change the ordinance, or address park financing
in general. But these impact fees would not allow these suburban parks to be built in the next few
years.
Mayor Brainard asked if there was a motion to table items 4.b. through 4.e. Mary Ann Burke asked if
we want to vote on this or table this. Mayor Brainard then asked if Mr. Taylor or Mr. Snyder would
like to speak again.
Mr. Snyder stated that he feels the Board of Public Works does a great job. But if this is going to pass
in a few weeks, he would like there to be more oversight of how the dollars are spent. If something can
be done for $2 million instead of $4.7 million, parks should receive that delta back. If this will be
tabled for two weeks, there need to be conversations between the CRC and Parks about how this
project can be done with the most efficiency. Mr. Snyder asked if there could be conversations between
Mr. Klitzing, Mr. Mestetsky, Mayor Brainard and the Parks Board about how this project can move
forward in a way that is best for all parties involved.
Mayor Brainard added that the extent of the investment at 111th and Penn is over a billion dollars. The
City of Carmel’s entire assessed value is around 9 billion today. With the investment being so huge, an
expenditure of $4-5 million in the public spaces is less than 1% of the total investment. Jeff Speck, one
of the top city planners in the world, is helping us design this project.
Mayor Brainard then asked for a motion to table items 4.b. through 4.e. Member Burke moved to table
these items, Member Watson seconded. Tabling of items 4.b through 4.e. approved 3-0. Previously
tabled item 4.a. also remained tabled.
Resolution BPW 11-01-23-03; A Resolution Requesting Financing, Construction and Dedication of
Certain Infrastructure or Other Impact Zone Improvements in Lieu of and as a Credit Against the
Payment of Parks and Recreation Impact Fees (“PRIF”) and Approving a PRIF Credit Agreement;
Pedcor Community Development Corporation - Penn One Eleven; ($4,706,248.00); Henry Mestetsky,
Director of the Department of Redevelopment – TABLED ON 11/1/23, REMAINS TABLED.
Resolution BPW 11-15-23-04; A Resolution Requesting Financing, Construction and Dedication of
Certain Infrastructure or Other Impact Zone Improvements in Lieu of and as a Credit Against the
Payment of Parks and Recreation Impact Fees (“PRIF”) and Approving a PRIF Credit Agreement;
KRG Hamilton Crossing, LLC – Hamilton Crossing; ($4,882.00 per unit); Henry Mestetsky, Director
of the Department of Redevelopment – TABLED ON 11/15/23.
Resolution BPW 11-15-23-05; A Resolution Requesting Financing, Construction and Dedication of
Certain Infrastructure or Other Impact Zone Improvements in Lieu of and as a Credit Against the
Payment of Parks and Recreation Impact Fees (“PRIF”) and Approving a PRIF Credit Agreement;
Buckingham Realty and Development Corporation – Gramercy Carmel Marketplace; ($4,084,508.00);
Henry Mestetsky, Director of the Department of Redevelopment – TABLED ON 11/15/23.
Resolution BPW 11-15-23-06; A Resolution Requesting Financing, Construction and Dedication of
Certain Infrastructure or Other Impact Zone Improvements in Lieu of and as a Credit Against the
Payment of Parks and Recreation Impact Fees (“PRIF”) and Approving a PRIF Credit Agreement;
Old Town Companies, LLC – Midtown Blocks 4 & 5; ($4,882.00 per unit); Henry Mestetsky, Director
of the Department of Redevelopment – TABLED ON 11/15/23.
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Resolution BPW 11-15-23-07; A Resolution Requesting Financing, Construction and Dedication of
Certain Infrastructure or Other Impact Zone Improvements in Lieu of and as a Credit Against the
Payment of Parks and Recreation Impact Fees (“PRIF”) and Approving a PRIF Credit Agreement;
CD Carmel Old Meridian, LLC – Old Meridian Apartments; ($1,391,370.00); Henry Mestetsky,
Director of the Department of Redevelopment – TABLED ON 11/15/23.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Brainard adjourned the meeting at 11:13 AM
APPROVED: ____________________________________
Sue Wolfgang – City Clerk
_____________________________________
Mayor James Brainard
ATTEST:
__________________________________
Sue Wolfgang – City Clerk
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