HomeMy WebLinkAboutCPAAC Minutes 03.21.231
Carmel Public Art Advisory Committee (CPAAC)
Meeting Minutes – Tuesday, March 21, 2023
Carmel City Hall Caucus Room
Call to Order
Committee Co-Chair Julia Saltsgaver called the meeting to order at 6:01 PM.
Attendance
Members Present in Person: Julia Saltsgaver, Karen Poyser, Jill Reese, Cathy Strawn, Luci
Snyder, Bill Cooler and Dru Doyle.
Members Present via Microsoft Teams: Donna Tutwiler
Members Not Present: Kelvin Okamoto earlier resigned from this Committee and to date has
not been replaced by Tim Hannon, his Council representative.
Additional City Representatives in Person: Henry Mestetsky, Redevelopment Director, and Sue
Wolfgang, City Clerk.
Minutes
The Committee briefly discussed that the minutes from the November 15, 2022, meeting
looked different because Jacob Quinn prepared them rather than previous CPAAC
administrator, Holly Harmeyer. With no corrections made, Julia Saltsgaver asked for a motion
to approve the minutes from the November 15, 2022, meeting. Bill Cooler moved to approve;
Karen Poyser seconded. Minutes were approved (7-0). Luci Snyder abstained since she did not
attend the meeting.
Discussion of “My Sixteen-Year-Old Jazz Dreams” (Intake Form - 02/13/2023)
Ms. Saltsgaver asked Henry Mestetsky to present on this project. He explained that Carmel
considers itself a living museum of Seward Johnson (SJ) pieces and looks at them as a draw to
Carmel shops and businesses. He said the original three pieces were initially on loan to the City
but were purchased a year ago by the Carmel Redevelopment Commission (CRC). He said it has
always been the Mayor’s wish to acquire all six pieces in this collection, and this was a chance
to complete the entire set.
Discussion was held regarding the cost of the first three SJ sculptures, and the Committee
determined they cost a total of $276,000. Ms. Saltsgaver noted that with the cost of the final
three pieces, the total would be around $720,000.
Dru Doyle asked if the sculptures would be lit at night. Committee members discussed, and Mr.
Mestetsky concurred, that it would depend upon the location and how much ambient light was
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available. Mr. Mestetsky advised that most of the SJ pieces are not individually lit, but it is
something to take into consideration.
Mr. Cooler noted that these pieces have been moved around in the past, but Mr. Mestetsky
indicated it is the Mayor’s desire to have all six in a permanent, landscaped, protected area that
would be somewhere within the Center for the Performing Arts campus, but an exact location
has not been determined.
Ms. Poyser asked, since there was not a quorum for the CPAAC’s February meeting, whether
the time had passed for members to give input on the project. She also asked about the
Committee at least having input on the location.
Ms. Saltsgaver asked Mr. Mestetsky if the pieces had been purchased. He advised the CRC
entered into a contract to purchase the pieces, and one of the provisions of the contract is that
the purchase is subject to review and a nonbinding recommendation by the CPAAC. If the
CPAAC’s positive recommendation, or the Mayor’s decision to acquire the work regardless of
the CPAAC’s negative recommendation, is not granted, the CRC may terminate the contract.
Mr. Mestetsky highlighted the Mayor’s acquisition process compared to that used by the CRC.
Because the CRC can enter into a contract for art purchases only when it is voted on at a public
meeting, and because the matter still has to go before the council, sometimes the press (The
Current) will write a story about it before the CPAAC is notified. Mr. Mestetsky also advised
that there is no retainer fee kept by an artist if a contract does not move forward. Ms.
Saltsgaver said she hopes the City understands that it is disconcerting to read about a project in
the newspaper before the Committee has heard of it.
Ms. Saltsgaver advised Mr. Mestetsky that he may have to use a different timeline, depending
on the type of art, so there is some ability for the CPAAC review process to still work, even if it
is only a potential purchase - the Committee could still review it. Discussion was held regarding
the belief that the Committee has never really had the opportunity to full review and respond
on an art project, no matter what entity it came from. Mr. Mestetsky advised that he would be
apprehensive having public discussion about potential art pieces that the CRC has not
approved. Ms. Poyser asked if the CPAAC could have received an email at the same time or an
hour before it was published in the newspaper. Ms. Saltsgaver recognized that Mr. Mestetsky
is constrained regarding communication due to the provisions of the CRC, but she indicated
there are other entities on behalf of the City that have not submitted timely. She noted the
CPAAC is not blaming Mr. Mestetsky for these other entities and the Committee appreciates
Mr. Mestetsky allowing the members to have that discussion. Ms. Saltsgaver concluded by
saying that the Committee now has a better understanding of the process the CRC, Mr.
Mestetsky and his staff have to take in this regard.
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Ms. Saltsgaver said the Committee needed to be specific about the “My Sixteen-Year-Old Jazz
Dreams” submission, so members spoke one at a time:
Jill Reese
While Ms. Reese agreed art enhances lives and encourages visitors to the shops, she does not
believe it has to be three more SJ statues. She finds them too whimsical and said the City has
too many of them. She requested that these last three be the end. She would like to see more
variety and believes variety would even more greatly enhance shopping.
Karen Poyser
Ms. Poyser stated she and her friends do not care for the SJ statues and referred to them as
catalog art. She believes Carmel can do better and, because she feels cost is not a problem, she
would like to see more commissioned pieces. She said she listened to the last CRC meeting and
was disappointed that everyone was positive about the statues, and no one said the City had
enough of them. She also said that since these statues seem important to the Mayor, and
because of all he has done for the City, she would have voted for them, even though she does
not think they are great for Carmel. She finished by voicing concern over potential vandalism to
which Mr. Mestetsky replied that there is at least one camera on all SJ statues and vandalism is
typically caught.
Cathy Strawn
Ms. Strawn said she understands why the Mayor wants to put all six of the SJ statues together,
and while they are not her favorite, she realizes the statues appeal to visitors in town and a lot
of people take pictures with them. She indicated she hopes there will not be a lot more SJ
statues coming, but because she understands that these are all part of a single collection, she
would vote in favor of it.
Luci Snyder
Ms. Snyder stated that, while these statues may not be the world’s best art, they are
exceedingly popular. She believes Carmel’s art falls into three categories: 1) pieces that people
want to take pictures with; 2) the four pieces on 96th Street related to the automobile industry
and support economic development – hopefully keeping those companies along 96th Street
from moving farther north; and 3) those pieces that are unique from an artist. She said that
since art is in the eye of the beholder, there must be enough variety so people know Carmel is
making an effort.
Bill Cooler
Mr. Cooler indicated he appreciates the classical nature of the SJ statues and the history behind
them. He believes they have a place in Carmel and adding the three additional pieces in this
collection makes it more grand. However, he stated he has seen enough of this type of work
and wants to see more creative and individually commissioned pieces.
Dru Doyle
Ms. Doyle said she likes these SJ statues and thinks they are perfect for the Palladium area. She
said she realizes the six pieces were created to be together, and believes they are a little more
sophisticated than catalog art because of what they meant to Seward growing up. She
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indicated she would be in favor of the three new pieces strictly because she believes they tie in
with the music of Carmel and the Performing Arts Center.
Donna Tutwiler
Ms. Tutwiler noted that, outside of New Jersey, Carmel is the largest holder of SJ statues and
she thinks it is a nice distinction that the City has such a large collection. She stated she also
worries about vandalism and is happy that members of Carmel Street Department have been
trained on how to paint and repair them, but she hopes it does not become too expensive over
time. Ms. Tutwiler finished by saying she really likes the art going up in Carmel, but there
should be more of it and more written about it.
Julia Saltsgaver
Ms. Saltsgaver said she agrees the City is at a point of saturation with the SJ statues, and she
expressed concern that some of them are becoming dated, particularly those that do not depict
a classic point in time. But she stated she does think the six statues together will be a nice
addition to the Palladium area. However, she requested that no more SJ statues be added
moving forward, and stated she wants more of a mix of art, as well as more commissioned art
pieces.
Follow Up
Ms. Reese asked Mr. Mestetsky where the SJ statues are cast. He said they are made from
scratch at the atelier in New Jersey. Ms. Reese stated her internet research shows most are
actually cast in China and Seward Johnson is a wealthy heir to Johnson & Johnson. She also
asked if there is evidence that the SJ statues are wildly popular. She indicated that she does not
think anyone can assume their level of popularity, or the popularity of any other City art,
without metrics. She advised if the City ever wants to have a public art master plan done,
metrics are something they would want.
Ms. Poyser stated she was under the impression at one time that the SJ collection would be
limited to the Arts & Design District and that when City Center was built, the City would get
more unique, commissioned, sophisticated art for that area.
Vote
Ms. Saltsgaver asked for a motion. Mr. Cooler moved to approve the acquisition of the three
additional SJ statues; Ms. Poyser seconded. The motion passed unanimously (8-0).
Ms. Poyser asked if they could give suggestions on location. Mr. Saltsgaver stated she wants to
give deference to City staff expertise regarding where they will be safe and well lit.
Mr. Cooler asked Mr. Mestetsky about the merit of adding a stage for the six statues. Mr.
Mestetsky indicated that if the Mayor wishes to have a stage, there will be a CRC vote to that
effect.
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The Committee chatted briefly about the positive feedback regarding mosaic panels being
installed on the City Center Parking Garage. Mr. Mestetsky advised the panels would be
completed in the near future.
Adjournment
Ms. Saltsgaver adjourned the meeting at 6:54 PM.