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CARMEL/CLAY PLAN COMMISSION
SPECIAL STUDY COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, APRIL 11,2000
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Carmel Clay Plan Commission met at 7:00 PM on Tuesday, April 11,
2000, in the Caucus Rooms of City Hall, Carmel, Indiana.
Members present were: Paul Spranger, Chairperson; Madeline Fitzgerald; Bob Modisett; Jim O'Neal; and Pat
Rice. Dave Cremeans was in attendance as an ex-officio member.
Director Steve Engelking, Terry Jones and Laurence Lillig attended the meeting on behalf of the Department of
Community Services.
1. Docket No. 105-99 Z, Merchants' Pointe
Petitioner seeks a favorable recommendation for a rezone from R-lIresidential to B-8/business in order to
construct between five and eight retail buildings not to exceed a total of 95,000 square feet on 14.378:!:
acres. The site is located on the southwest comer of East 116th Street and North Keystone Avenue. The
site is zoned R-lIresidential within the SR 431 Overlay Zone.
This item has been continued from the February 1,2000, Special Study Committee meeting.
II Filed by James J. Nelson of Nelson & Frankenberger for The Linder Group.
UJim Nelson, attorney with Nelson & Frankenberger, appeared before the Committee representing the applicant.
Also present: Gary Linder, President of The Linder Group; and Clint Bucher, President of Woodland Country
Club.
Jim Nelson gave a brief review of this Docket. The Linder Company appeared before the Committee in
February. In response to the Committee's request, the applicant has agreed to provide the amendments to the
commitments presented by the Linder Company and to also address further assurances as to the use of
Woodland's remaining real estate. Each Committee Member received a copy of a letter addressed to Laurence
Lillig, dated February 14th that specifically identifies those changes made to the Linder commitments. There
were certain technical corrections that were made, and an expanded definition of fast-food restaurants has been
added. A commitment has also been added prohibiting signage adjacent to Keystone and also providing the
Linder Company with the right to have a single sign at the comer of 116th and Keystone.
A commitment has been included that upon adoption of the Rezone and proceeding with the project, the
appropriate right-of-way will be dedicated to the City of Carmel for the 116th Street project. An important
addition pertains to the tree preservation program and those commitments are attached. Basically, the applicant
has committed that adjacent to Keystone Avenue, beginning at the comer and extending southward, a tree
preservation buffer is provided that at the intersection was 30 feet and as it proceeded southward, it extended out
to 80 feet along the south boundary line. The applicant has therefore expanded the required tree preservation
Ubuffer adjacent to Keystone.
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It was also suggested that the applicant consider further assurances as to what could occur, over time, with
respect to Woodland's remaining land. There was mention of a fear that approval of this proj ect would lead to
future requests for commercial use on Woodland's remaining land along Keystone Avenue. There are many
practical reasons why that would not happen. Firstly, it would require a rezone of the real estate. Secondly,
there would be no access to the remaining land from Keystone Avenue, thus making access extremely difficult
and impractical, ifnot, impossible. Most importantly, if this rezone is approved, Woodland stands ready to
make a $4million commitment to a new golf course. Woodland has been at this location for nearly 50 years.
Approximately 10 years ago, it had the opportunity to sell the real estate and re-Iocate elsewhere-Woodland
chose not to do that. It is highly impractical that the Country Club that has been there approximately 50 years,
and who is making a $4million reinvestment in a new golf course, would sell out for another commercial use.
D
However, in order to put that issue to bed, Woodland Country Club prepared a written commitment, copy of
which was sent to each Commission member. The commitment basically stated that for a period of 15 years,
Woodland would not request a reclassification of any of its real estate to a commercial use. The applicant
appeared before a Land Use Committee of the City Council and it was suggested that the commitment should
possibly be extended. Woodland is now ready to amend that commitment from 15 years to 30 years. So, for a
period of30 years, except for what occurs on the southwest comer of Keystone and 116lh Street, what you see
now, driving north/south on Keystone will be as it is today, green, a golf course.
From the inception of the relationship between Woodland Country Club and The Linder Company, there was
one plan for road improvements to 116th Street. Those plans were the ones that were unveiled in January at the
Plan Commission, viewed by the entire Commission. That plan required substantial right-of-way from
Woodland Country adjacent to 1 16th Street-in some places, 58 feet. The impact of the right-of-way has been
discussed on the playability ofthe holes adjacent to 116th Street. Woodland anticipated the impact arid formed a 0
relationship with the Linder Company to design a proj ect that it believes would provide a win/win situation. It .
would provide the Linder Company with the opportunity to expand its base, thereby ensuring the economic
viability of Merchants Square. It would provide the City with the right-of-way that it needed for 116th Street;
and it would provide Woodland Country Club with the financial means, when coupled with contributions from
members, to completely re-design its golf course and expand into the 55 acres located in its southwest comer.
Woodland, The Linder Company, and probably the entire citizenry of Carmel endorses the improvement of
1 16th Street-it is badly needed. The Committee has been asked to evaluate and determine if the proposed plan
is the only opportunity as far as a road project for 116th Street. If the Commission accepts that responsibility or
assignment, the applicant is willing to defer requesting a decision until such time as you have had an
opportunity to make a determination.
The applicant is asking that the Committee be expedient in its investigation and decision, because time is very
important. In fact, the applicant is really pressed at this time. If Woodland is to respond with construction this
summer, and ifthe Linder Company is required to begin construction this fall preparatory to the roadway work
in the Spring by the City, we must start construction right away. However, the applicant will wait until the
Committee decides regarding the alternative plan. The applicant has relied on this one plan and Woodland has
spent over a year trying to determine what was going to happen so Woodland could anticipate what they neededeto do to appropriately respond. Also, if there is an alternative plan, does the Linder Company have any
assurance that when that roadway plan is implemented, it will be the plan that the Committee has voted on and D
not something else.
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lEpat Rice suggested Tabling until public concerns have been addressed. There has been a lot of public input on
Ithi .
s Item.
adeline Fitzgerald said she had read in the paper of "possible new plans" for 116th Street, and still has not
received any information for possible alternative plans. The articles in the paper may not be totally factual.
Without more information on the possible alternatives for the expansion of 116th Street, it is hard to get a handle
on this situation at this time.
Pat Rice said these are two different issues that need to be kept separate and apart. We are not being asked to
decide how 116th Street is going to be fixed, we are looking at a rezone issue and we need to focus on that.
Madeline Fitzgerald said the impact on Woodland Country Club would be significantly different if 116th Street
does not invade its property.
Paul Spranger added that Norm Rundle, president of City Council, asked that 116th Street be looked at in terms
of all possible options, given the weightiness of this decision.
Comments from Councilperson Luci Snyder were invited at this time.
Luci Snyder said the City Council now has committees and there is a Land Use and Annexation Committee.
Norm has asked Council members to look at this Docket because it will eventually end up at City Council.
[J pme is of the essence if something is to be done, there is a construction period and a down time, etc. The
Council looked at this from two aspects, one of which was the Country Club, and of course, from the City's
oint of view. The City wants to widen 116th Street to the appropriate number of lanes so that when the right-
of-way is acquired and the street is built, it will be good for a decent number of years. The City is very
cognizant of the fact that this is our commercial corridor from Keystone to Meridian and when it is built, we
want to make sure it is right. We don't want to have to tear it up in seven years and say it isn't functioning.
The Council thought the Engineering Dept. should look at the possibility of a bike path on one side, or could it
be re-routed. Ifthe bike path is eliminated and a wall installed, would the wall abut the pavement, how tall
would it be and what would it look like?
When the road is built, and severely impact and damage the golf course, we have to pay damages and make
them whole. How much would that be? Would we be required to re-design the entire golf course, or create a
championship course? Woodland is looking at a re-design of all of the holes. If Linder were not in the mix,
what would be the damage to the Club? From a purely fiscal point of view, the ideal solution is the one before
us. The easy issues were drainage, lighting, etc. Now, the issue is what will this look like in 15 or 20 years.
There is no design from the City for a different street design, but keep in mind that the street must function. The
street needs to be as wide as the street needs to be. We need to determine the amount of damage to Woodland
Country Club, and if we turn down this rezone and the damage occurs, does the taxpayer want to pick up the tab
for the damage? Is the damage four and one-half million dollars? Is the damage two and one-half million
dollars? Or do you allow this rezone and say the taxpayer picks up zero dollars because this does not occur in a
vacuum.
Uwoodland has been damaged twice. Once when Keystone expanded, and once when 116" was altered. Are the
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taxpayers willing to pay to keep the Country Club whole and not allow commercial development? This is really
a rough call. It is the crux of the matter. When we look at the re-design of the Country Club, we have to make 0.'
sure that the 30-year commitment has a loophole for a catastrophic re-design of Keystone. What will Keystone .
be in 30 years? Can any of us know? What if the State decides to expand Keystone 100 feet west? The
Country Club could not possibly survive. The 30-year commitment from Woodland that they will not sell
except in their entirety probably has a loophole clause that bars whatever the State may do. The re-design of the
golf course should prudently include the fact that Rangeline Road will probably widen within 30 years.
In Marion County, there is a transitional zoning termed C-l that is between residential and commercial. It is a
professional zoning that allows an insurance agent, a doctor, but not a retail center. You carmot sell product in
the C-l zone. It protect the homeowners, and we might consider a protective zoning from AAA Way to
Meridian Street on the south side of 1 16th Street so that any house or parcel of land there will not go retail. One
of the things the County Club could do right now is sell. It is zoned R-l and does not need a rezone to be sold.
Someone could buy it in its entirety, 168 acres, and put homes there. It would probably be a PUD, with homes,
apartments, condos-and no curb cuts onto Keystone. Another safeguard would be to rezone the Country Club
to Special Use, Recreation.
There are more questions here than answers, but the street is a given. We must make the Country Club whole
and repair the damage we do. and the cost of that is yet to be determined.
Paul Spranger noted a question from the public. Should the City Council have looked at this issue prior to Plan
Commission completing its work and sending it on to Council?
Luci Snyder responded the Council was actually looking for a road design and trying to determine a dollar O.
amount for damages to the golf course. The City Engineer carmot order an alternative design for the street that
would not damage Woodland without a specific order from the Mayor.
Leo Dierckman expressed his concern that he was not invited or aware ofthe meeting that occurred with the
petitioner and other issues. Leo would like to be kept informed and in the loop, rather than learning of this past
tense. The real issue before the Commission and Committee is the Rezone of this land. We need to work with
the Land Use Committee of the Council rather than duplicating efforts and sending mixed messages to
developers as to how the process works with Clay Township and the City.
Madelyn Fitzgerald totally concurred with Leo Dierckman's comments.
Dave Cremeans suggested continuing with the review at hand and perhaps setting a time limit for discussion.
Jim O'Neal commented that he also was in agreement with Leo. There are too many Committees, and every
additional committee dilutes the responsibility of this body.
Paul Spranger set aside 30 minutes for discussion and review ofthis Docket.
Pat Rice said she would like to hear a statement from the petitioner as to the exact reasons for this rezone.
Jim Nelson responded that the Linder Company was not invited to attend the Council committee meeting and in 0..
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fact, did not attend and was not a part of the Land Use Committee meeting. As to the rationale for this request,
Uthis was explained initially by Gary Linder. Gary is in attendance and will further explain to the Committee
lvhy it is important to have this mixed-use project for the financial viability of Merchants Square.
ary Linder addressed the Committee. The retail market today changes rapidly. Retailing is difficult and every
method is employed to get as many hours of sales as possible, taking into account competition from e-
commerce, etc. One of the things tried initially was local food people with different varieties and there was not
enough evening business to support this. The retailers are saying they need more evening activity so that they
. can bolster their sales. The competition has it-we want a part of it to be competitive. We do not want to
become a "Castleton," or a "Keystone at the Crossing," but if we are going to have the caliber of retail we have
to date, and maintain and increase the level, we must increase our evening activity. We have investigated other
alternatives, and other alternatives do not work for the type of people we need to participate at the proposed
development. It is primarily to protect a $26 million investment.
Mr. Linder further explained that in the planning stages, a movie theatre was looked at and there was not enough
p~king; a theatre also would not work at the Marsh complex on Carmel Drive. The only alternative was to use
the local restaurants and it is not working. Stronger and bigger restaurants and evening activity is needed.
Pat Rice commented that she had a real concern with this request. After the presentation for Merchants Square
and we went through all that we did, suddenly now, you are coming back and saying "This isn't going to work
unless you give us this." (the rezone)
O_Mr. Linder said they are responding to what the retailers and customers are saying. These are the retailers that
ay the rent and allow us to do business. Weare merely responding to our customers. The expansion was not
lanned initially-it is a response to the retailers and customers.
Paul Spranger offered apologies to the Committee for not having advised fellow members of the Land Use
Committee meeting. The meeting was primarily a road discussion regarding 116th Street.
Pat Rice had further comments that over and over again, a recurring theme from those persons in favor of this
proposal said that this proposal was in the best interest ofthe community. Pat was not clear what "the best
interest ofthe community" meant, and more specificity is requested. Those people that were opposed to this
petition were very specific about their issues. We need to address those issues, one ofw}tich is compromising
the Comprehensive Plan-no retail south of I 16th Street.
Leo said he also received thoseJetters from the public, but the Plan Commission is not a political body.
Certainly, everyone has an opinion on this, but we do separate the powers between the Plan Commission and the
City Council. Ours is not a political decision but rather a planning decision as to whether or not the southwest
corner of 116th and Keystone is an appropriate use for commercial. Some of the letters had valid points. We
need to take this thing step by step, and even have a special meeting to review further.
Dave Cremeans agreed with Leo's comments. Dave referred to Luci's comments ofa win-win situation, but the
City has not yet quantified the expense if they have to repair the golf course. Dave said he is an avid golfer and
Uas played Woodland and numerous courses all over the country. There will be severe damage to the golf
bourse. The way this course is going to be disrupted would disrupt the pattern of the flow of golf. For the City
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and all of the taxpayers, the question is, "Should they be burdened with the tax expense to repair the golf
course?" Another piece gleaned from the letters received is that we, the City, will receive a guarantee from D
Woodland that this will remain green space. If the rezone were not granted, the personal fear is that this grOUnd..;
will develop and Woodland will move to another location. We would then lose a tremendous asset to the
community if we don't figure out a way to make something work. Dave said that Woodland is a great golf
course, and he would like to see it remain in Carmel-it is an important asset.
Pat Rice then questioned ifthe road were not going in, would Woodland continue as they are, since it was Pat's
understanding that they wanted to upgrade to a first class course and would this even be an issue?
Dave referred to Luci's comment that this is the straw that broke the camel's back. If 116th Street were not
going to be widened, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Jim Nelson responded to comments regarding the Comprehensive Plan. The request to reclassify a small, 14
acre parcel at the corner of 116th and Keystone, considering the uses now in place at the other corners,
Merchants' Square, Hardee's, the filling station and the apartments, is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan.
Going back a number of years to the time the Comprehensive Plan was adopted, it was made very clear that it
was the TEXT of the Comprehensive Plan that controlled and not the map. In fact, there was even consideration
for there not being the map because of the confusion that it often brings. In order to provide further definition,
it was determined that the map was important and so the map accompanied the Comprehensive Plan. In looking
at the controlling text of the Comprehensive Plan, and specifically page 24 where it refers to the criteria that
should be in place where there is a commercial development, i.e. regional access, etc. Those components are in
place on this parcel ofreal estate. The site is adjacent to principal arterial parkway or secondary parkway, 0
appropriate buffering is maintained, adequate sewer and water and drainage-these are in place at this site. By
way of commitment, Linder is basically providing 150 acres of buffer. The location is on a heavily traveled ..
roadway, Keystone Avenue, as well as 116th Street, and adjacent to the southern edge ofthe entire commercial
and industrial core of Carmel.
Mr. Nelson did acknowledge that on the map is a series ofX's that run along 116th Street. On the most current
drawing in Mr. Nelson's possession, it mentions that X's "edge between residential community and community
regional employment area." Looking at the text, there is no mention in the written document of that particular
identification on the land use map.
Pat Rice was not sure this was a small departure considering that houses have already been purchased as well as
more options to purchase other property farther west on 116th Street for commercial use. If this property is
rezoned, there will be a rezone all the way to Meridian Street. A number of homes along 116th Street are in
existence and the plans are to tear them down and construct office buildings as soon as the rezone works it way
down to Rangeline Road. Several of the houses are already being used for business; perhaps some of them
could apply for Special Use Variance and keep the residential appearance. It is important to realize what the
plans are for some people who have already invested in the property.
Jim Nelson responded that there are houses on the south side of 116th Street, from AAA Way to Rangeline
Road. Someone was to research the covenants of record regarding restrictions on their use for anything other
than residential. It was Mr. Nelson's belief that most of the lots are part of a residential subdivision which
exists in several sections that was platted in the 1960's by Bill Diddle, former owner of Woodland Country
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Club, and called "Woodland Country Club Estates." To Mr. Nelson's knowledge and belief, there was a
U restric~on on the plat that said the homes must be used for residential purposes only. If that statement is on the
plat, there is a real problem. If that restriction is of record, the homeowners would have to sign off on it OR,
there is a procedure whereby a partial vacation of the plat can be requested as well as an intended vacation of
their covenants, at the Plan Commission level.
Steve Engelking reported that the covenants were reviewed by Mike Hollibaugh regarding those residences on
the south side of 1 16th Street; the homes were developed in the 50's and 60's, and no restrictions were found in
. the covenants. The City does not enforce covenants; the City does enforce Zoning Law. In the event violations
occur, the City investigates and gives the owner an opportunity to either come into compliance through a
variance or cease and desist.
Mr. Nelson said he had done some previous research, and the plat carried a restriction that the property could be
used for residential purposes only.
Steve Engelking responded that the Department would verify which of the homes on 116th Street fit within the
plat for Woodland Subdivision. Terry Jones said different sections have different plat restrictions and different
covenants.
Gary Linder responded to questions from the Committee regarding an option on additional ground. In looking
at the plan for the road widening and the depth of those lots along 116th Street, it appeared that by the time the
necessary right-of-way was taken, there would be no depth to the property. We took a narrow strip of ground
Dbehind the next two houses to protect any further commercial. Secondly, we took a strip of ground between the
house and the proposed new road in order to protect what went beyond. As a part of the transaction with
Woodland, Linder took an option behind the homes so that building behind those homes would be prohibited.
This becomes moot with the 30-year commitment.
This item will be continued to a Special Meeting to further review this rezone on April 25, 2000 at 7:00 PM in
the Caucus Rooms of City Hall, Carmel.
Jim O'Neal made a formal motion to ask for funding for the City Engineer to clarify the road design on the
south side of 116th Street and report to the full Commission so that a decent decision can be made on the rezone
for the benefit of Gary Linder and the people in Woodland. The motion was seconded by Pat Rice and
approved 7-0.
2. Docket Nos. 106-99 SP & 107-99 DP/ADLS, Carmel Science & Technology Park, Block 14, Lot 3
Petitioner seeks approval to plat one lot on 3.533::t acres and to construct seven self-storage buildings with
office totaling 69,300 square feet to be known as Carmel Drive Storage. The site is located at 550 West
Carmel Drive. The site is zoned M-3/manufacturing.
This item has been continued from the February 1, 2000, and March 7, 2000, Special Study Committee
meetings.
Filed by Keith Bonham of the Tower Design Group, PC.
U TABLED BY PETITIONER
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3. Docket No. 61-00 DP/ADLS, Marriott Suite Hotels
Petitioner seeks approval for two hotels totaling 166,000 square feet on 8.070:l: acres to be known as D
Residence Inn and Spring HiU Suites. The site is located northwest of the intersection of East 116" ....
Street and Pennsylvania Street. The site is zoned B-6/business and is located within the US 31 Overlay..
Zone.
Filed by Elizabeth Hobbs of REI Investments, Inc.
Note: Bob Modisett recused himself on Docket No. 61-00 DP/ADLS, Marriott Suite Hotels.
Gene Valanzano, Land Use Consultant with Baker & Daniels, Indianapolis, appeared before the Committee
representing the applicant. Also in attendance: Liz Hobbs, REI Corporate Counsel for REI Investments.
The applicant is proposing to develop two, extended stay, suite-type products on the property located at 11811
North Meridian Street. To the north of the subject site is a one-story office building; to the south is the
Meridian Mark Office Building. The north hotel is a Residence Inn, 80,000 square feet, 4 stories, 120 units,
with an attached gatehouse entry. The southern building is a Spring Hill Suites building, approximately 75,000
square feet, 4 stories, 126 units. The primary access to the site is off Pennsylvania Avenue and would align
with College Drive. There was concern expressed regarding plans to potentially close College Drive and the
applicant is aware of those plans. In terms of alignment and driveway location, if that street is in existence as a
street, the applicant will align. If the street becomes a driveway into Conseco campus, it is still in a proper
location.
The petitioner's efforts on this proposed project are coordinated with the City's efforts to widen Pennsylvania
Avenue. The site plan does take into consideration additional right-of-way and negotiations are under-way with D..
the City regarding the right-of-way strip necessary for the improvement to Pennsylvania Avenue. There was .
also a question regarding traffic impact, and the applicant has looked at an alternative development on the site.
If an office building were constructed at 140,000 square feet, the traffic generated would be twice as much as
the proposed hotels.
Madeline Fitzgerald asked to see the north elevation on the Residence Inn. Mr. Valanzano said the north
elevation of the north building is not available; however, he did have the view from the Courtyard. Madeline
Fitzgerald recalled the north building was very bland and flat, even though it was tree-buffered.
Jim O'Neal referred to the gatehouse saying it did not look to be the same quality as the main hotel. Mr.
Valanzano responded that the gatehouse is the same building materials, colors, etc. as the main building.
The gatehouse is actually for the swimming pool.
Madeline Fitzgerald asked what the west side of the north building looks like-the side that faces US 31 ?
Paul Spranger commented that on US 31, traveling at 60 mph, the streetscape is unclear whether this is an
apartment house or a business-type hotel. We know it is a Residence Inn, but it needs to look like an up-scale
hotel. The rendering does not reflect the actual impact of the aesthetics of a building.
Pat Rice said she had a problem with the green roof.
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Madeline Fitzgerald commented the green roofwas OK, but the gatehouse had a "roadhouse" look to it. The
u;externallook will be very flat on both the west and north sides of the northern building.
I aul Spranger commented iliat a Residence Hotel on US 31 is unique and in ilie 31 corridor, we need 10 look at
this very closely. All brick would certainly help this project.
Elizabeth Hobbs and Gene Valanzano both commented that the buildings are more detailed than actually shown.
There are more windows.
Paul Spranger asked ifthe widow design could be changed to be more reflective of a business hotel and this
prompted more discussion for architectural relief. The size of the conference room was also discussed.
The lighting on the project was discussed. Lighting on the building is preferred to be softly floodlit from the
ground up on the southern exposure, the US 31 sight-line, actually everything but the Pennsylvania Street side.
The lighting fixtures will be shoebox-down lighting for the parking lot, no red poles or fixtures.
Terry Jones commented there seems to be an uncertainty as to whether the site is delineated as two different
types of facility or complex and the necessary signage. The Department is not 100% on where this project fits,
categorically.
Gene Valanzano responded the wall signs have been downsized and are now in compliance with the Sign
Ordinance. The lettering on the Spring Hill Suites sign was originally 36 inches in size and they have been
Oreduced to 30 inches. The ground sign is white, with backlit, individual black lettering.
The green roofwas OK with Committee members, with the exception of Pat Rice. The preference is for the
dark green roof.
Jim O'Neal moved to recommend approval of Docket No. 61-00 DP/ADLS, Mariott Suite Hotels, subject to the
redesign of the Residence Inn facing Meridian Street, the re-design ofthe roofline on the Residence Inn, and an
approved sign package satisfactory to the full Plan Commission. The motion was seconded by Pat Rice and
approved 4 in favor, none opposed, Bob Modisett recused.
Note: At this point, Jim O'Neal exited the meeting and did not return.
4. Docket No. 70-00 ADLS Amend, Hamilton Crossing East (W.G. Grinders)
Petitioner seeks approval to establish 3-5 tables for outdoor seating at the W. G. Grinders restaurant
within the Hamilton Crossing East development. The site is located at 12297 North Meridian Street.
The site is zoned B-6/business within the US 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Megan Evans & Brett Thomas ofW.G. Grinders.
Brett Thomas, owner/operator ofW.G Grinders, Castleton and Carmel, appeared before the Committee
requesting outdoor seating at the restaurant located at 12297 North Meridian Street in Hamilton Crossing East
center.
DThe hope is to create a "bistro" atmosphere. The amount of space will allow four bistro tables, some with
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seating for two persons, some with seating for three. There is a trash receptacle outside to accommodate the
outdoor dining. The outdoor area will feature wrought-iron furniture that will withstand the weather.
o
Madeline Fitzgerald noted the information packets refer to five-foot, cafe umbrellas and wanted to know the
specifics-material, color, and ifthere is advertising on the umbrellas.
Mr. Thomas responded that the umbrellas would match the green awnings. Whether or not there is writing on
the umbrellas is up to the Committee.
Pat Rice said that "Grinders" name on the umbrellas would be signage and the Committee would not be in
favor.
Leo Dierckman was concerned about trash outdoors from a visual standpoint. Brett Thomas said the trash
situation would be monitored by outdoor servers and the area would be kept clean and picked-up.
Pat Rice said she was having difficulty visualizing the pedestrian traffic. Brett Thomas said there are actually
three sides (access) to the patio pad. The door to Grinders is underneath the build-out area; there is a landscape
area and the patio area is off to the side.
Bob Modisett moved for approval of Docket No. 70-00 ADLS with drawings as presented. The motion was
amended to allow for four tables, rather than 3 to 5. The motion, as amended, was seconded by Madeline
Fitzgerald.
8.
Old Meridian Task Force to meet to discuss the possibility oflocating the Meijer Convenience Store
away from Old Meridian Street.
o
Paul Reis, attorney, was present for this discussion as a member of the US 31 Task Force. Brenda Scherer of
Scherer and Scherer, Cincinnati, Ohio also appeared before the Committee representing the Old Meridian Task
Force. Ms. Scherer highlighted the need for discussion and working together between the US 31 Task Force
and the Plan Commission to resolve outstanding issues in the terms of the Old Meridian Plan.
The Meijer proposal was approved, contingent upon its location on Old Meridian.
Mike Hollibaugh clarified that initially, Meijer's proposal was for a change in commitments. Meijer had a
conceptual site plan and conceptual architecture; the only item approved was the change in commitments to
allow location on Old Meridian. The outstanding issues are the Development Plan and ADLS.
Ms. Scherer commented that Meijer has wanted the gas station to be located as originally proposed on site.
From the Task Force's perspective, it would be better to have the gas station on the comer as originally
proposed rather than on Old Meridian. There is a pedestrian district on Old Meridian that extends along the new
boulevard, but not north of Buckingham. The Task Force wanted to connect Meijer into the entire program so
that pedestrian traffic could flow from Meijer to other places along the corridor.
Making use of the excess parking on the Meijer parking lot would allow for support of the retail activity in the D...
area. The most desirable parking for both Meijer's and the Old Meridian corridor is the area in the comer. The ..
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Task Force would like to enforce the area as a pedestrian atmosphere and not as an automobile place. When
Ltetail is continued from both sides of Old Meridian, the parking closest to Old Meridian will be the most
fesitable and will support the retail activity. Meijer willluse approximately 60 spaces in this scenario.
Bob Modisett commented that after the Meijer convenience store was approved, three additional buildings were
approved in the Old Meridian corridor.
Mike Hollibaugh said he was in favor of moving the gas station/convenience center. There will be no new curb
~ entries, and there will be year round screening.
;;
Pat Rice referred to previous comments made by Meijer about traffic cutting across the parking lot. The
location of the convenience center/gas station as initially proposed by Meijer will alleviate the cross-cutting of
traffic through the parking lot.
Paul Reis said that potentially, the property would be in two districts: within the 31 Overlay by virtue of the
commitments, and the Old Meridian District. Do we carve out the area specifically for retail? In any case, the
issue of parking becomes paramount.
Terry Jones inteIjected that the Committee has already allowed Meijer out of its commitment by approving the
current location and this causes a dilemma with Old Meridian District. There will also be pressure to develop
the vacant parcel, currently zoned B-2, and retail is probable.
r jDaVe Cremeans commented that Buckingham is a major player in this picture, and the gas station/convenience
U'center fronting on Old Meridian would severely hamper the ability for retail.
There are issues with the master plan that Meijer takes exception to because it impedes operation of the store.
There are some logistical issues that Meijer feels very strongly need to be resolved. Meijer likes the concept of
being incorporated into the corridor (Old Meridian) rather than having Meijer being at the back-side of the
newly revitalized corridor. Parking is a significant issue-the grocery side of the store has a lot more turnover
on the parking lot side-it is also the side of the parking lot that proportionately has the least amount of parking.
It makes a lot of sense to have similar ifnot identical buildings on Meijer's side of the street that Buckingham
will have on their side of the street. Otherwise, people will not walk back and forth and make it a pedestrian
corridor that the Committee is encouraging. Again, there are logistic issues. Probably, the location of a gas
station/convenience store at Carmel Drive and Pennsylvania would make the most sense because it puts it in the
area of the parking lot that is severely under-utilized; it would also take the gas station out of the pedestrian
corridor. That part ofthe lot adjacent to the Old Meridian corridor and farther away from the store would make
sense for use as a restaurant.
Discussions will continue on this item.
6. Docket No. 84-99 O.A., U.S. 31 Overlay Zone Ordinance
Committee to discuss the directed changes by the City Council at their March 20th meeting.
DThe changes in the Ordinance are similar to the one approved by the Commission in December, heard by
Council in January and sent back to the Commission for minor changes in March. The Committee discussed the
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change in square footage per room for hotels, amenities, and meeting rooms to ensure that future hotels are "full
service" hotels.
o
The Committee voted to forward this item to the full Commission with a favorable recommendation with
changes noted.
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at approximately
10:30 PM.
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