HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 04-17-02
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CARMEL/CLAY TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
MINUTES
April 17 , 2002
Laurence Lillig - DOCS
Brian Hanson -DOCS
Gary Hoyt - Carmel Fire Dept.
Chuck Shupperd - Vectren Energy
Phil Bennett - Carmel Parks
Bill Akers - Communications
Mike McBride - Carmel Engineer.
Jim Blanchard - Carmel Bldg. Dept.
Jon Dobosiewicz - Carmel DOCS
Tom Skolak - Carmel Postmaster
Steve Broermann - Ham.Co.Highway
Sharon Prater - Panhandle Eastern
Dean Groves - Cinergy/PSI
Dick Hill- Carmel Engineering
John South - Ham. Co. Soil & Water
Steve Cash - Ham. Co. Surveyor's
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Martin Marietta Materials (UV 23-02; SU 24-02; SU 25-02; V-26-02,
V -27-02)
The applicant seeks Use Variance approval to establish a sand and gravel processing
operation on property located on the northeast comer of East 106th Street and Hazel Dell
Parkway. Applicant also seeks Special Use and Developmental Standards Variance
approval in order to establish a sand and gravel extraction operation and an artificial lake
on property located on the northwest comer of East 106th Street and Hazel Dell Parkway.
The sites are both zoned S-I/Residence - Low Density.
Filed by Tom Engle of Barnes & Thornburg for Martin Marietta Materials.
David Warshauer presented the case on behalf of Martin Marietta. Also in attendance
were Max Williams and Dan Hoskons, Martin Marietta, and Tom Engle, Barnes &
Thornburg. Three petitions have been filed all dealing basically with the same matter. A
special use petitioner was submitted for a sand and gravel extraction operation north of
106th Street and South of Kings wood Subdivision. A development standards variance
request has been filed to reduce the buffer from 300 feet to 150 feet from the sand and
gravel operations. A use variance has been submitted to move the existing processing
plant from the west side of Hazel Dell to the east side. Extraction will be done by means
of a floating dredge. It is a process by which overburden, that is not aggregate quality,
will be removed by earth moving equipment. The mining plan will start in the existing
lake on the Martin Marietta property and go into the newer property moving in an east to
west direction. After meeting with the City consultant last week, Martin Marietta has
agreed to provide a temporary landscape berm from a point 50 feet south ofthe south line
of Kings wood Subdivision. The idea is to construct a temporary 3 to 2 slope berm with a
black, chain link fence. The eight-foot berm will be seeded. The 50-foot buffer will be
landscaped per Carmel's perimeter buffer yard ordinance. There will be substantial
plantings. A landscape plan is being 'prepared. Martin Marietta anticipates a time period
of 15 years to complete the sand and gravel extraction. At the end ofthe activity, there
will be a lake on the property with anticipated low pool elevation of 720 feet deep. This
is based on other mining operations south of 106th Street and on anticipated City of
Carmel well field production. The lake banks will be graded at a 3 to 1 slope beginning
at a point 50 feet south of the south line of Kingswood. At the end of the mining, the
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temporary berm would be removed. A gradual slope would begin down to the lake.
Martin Marietta will also construct a permanent berm on 106th Street after obtaining a
half right of way. The petitioner proposed a number of commitments regarding
operation. Some of those are set forth in the mining and reclamation land use plan.
Others are included in various petitions. They will all be reduced to a form to be
recorded. Tom Engle, Barnes & Thornburg, stated these applications have nothing to do
with underground mining or blasting. This involves only surface extraction. Moving the
processing plant is contingent upon being able to mine the north property by May 1 st. If
they cannot, Martin Marietta will proceed with mining on the east side of Hazel Dell.
The idea is to move the processing plant farther from Kingswood Subdivision and closer
to Martin Marietta's other operations. It will be screened and have noise reduction
services. The plant has been there for a number of years. There have been no
complaints. The dredging operation is quiet and the motor is enclosed. In Noblesville,
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Martin Marietta has been permitted to dredge lake as means of creating another
subdivision lake. There have been no problems and the developer has no concerns.
Kelli Laurence had no comments.
Steve Cash understands that when operations are completed the lake will be accessible to
adjacent landowners. There will not be public access to the lake. The adjoining property
owners in Kingswood will be able to purchase the portion ofland between their existing
lot to the lake's edge. The County will require the construction of a safety ledge below
the surface of the normal pool. It should be 18 to 24 feet deep and 10 feet wide. This
cuts down on liability. Mr. Cash stated it is very hard to walk on a wet 3 to 1 slope. He
recommends a safety ledge. There are three different styles. Mr. Cash will provide a
schematic to Martin Marietta and the Department of Community Services.
John South has not written a letter. This is not a typical project. Potentially, there is a
20-foot elevation level difference. The 3 to 1 slope is a healthy incline. Technically, it
can be mowed but if wet it is treacherous. It is certainly stable. But Mr. South questions
whether it is entirely appropriate for a residential area. He feels a 4 to 1 slope would be
better. The 20-foot elevation difference creates a long, steep slope. He agrees on the
need for a safety ledge next to a residential area. There is a need for transition. He is
concerned with the angle of repose. In most pits, the edge is straight down. Mr. South
questioned whether it would be stable in the long run. He suggests continuing the 3 to 1
or 4 to 1 slope out to a point where it is five feet deep. If a person is in the water, they are
close to being over their head and needing to swim. Mr. South is appreciative ofthis
process. Some of the other pits north of 1 16th Street were mined out and left in sad
shape. This is a good opportunity to plan a good, safe situation for residential use. If
Martin Marietta planned to fence, mine, and leave it that way, his comments might be
different. But this situation needs to be safe and long-term stable.
Only one side has a residential access. David Warshauer asked if Mr. South had a
different view of other banks in terms ofthe slopes. Mr. South thinks the existing park
along the west side is fenced already. His gut reaction might be that there could be two
different standards--residential and other standards. But Mr. South feels a safety ledge all
around is the best practice. Mr. Warshauer will take this suggestion under advisement.
Mr. South continued that one consideration is the 50-foot flat area beyond Kingswood
property owners. There is no reason for it to be totally flat. A slope of 8 to 1 is
acceptable for backyard use. David Warshauer wants to discuss this in regard to
landscaping. The buffer is 25 feet; Martin Marietta proposes 50 feet. Mr. South stated
the plan proposed matches up with their narrative. Greater detail regarding the
reclamation plan has been submitted to the City's consultants. There is some discussion
about dust control. The overburden removal will proceed as necessary to construct the
temporary berm. It would proceed no more than two mining seasons in advance. The
parcel will not be left as fallow ground. Some consideration should be given to farming,
putting in grass, or stabilizing in some fashion. The mounding will be done all at once.
The purpose of the berm along Kingswood is to provide an immediate noise and visual
barrier for the subdivision. Some specifications for seeding must be included in the
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narrative. There might be some small revisions to the plan. The water is useable by the
Carmel City Water Department. David Warshauer will work with Carmel Utilities. Mr.
South will write a comment letter.
Laurence Lillig was told trucks and heavy equipment will have access from the existing
entrance. The breaks in the berm on 106th Street are for surface drainage. If it is staged,
there may be surface drainage needs. That note should be added to the next update of
plans. There will not be an entrance on 106th Street. Trucks will go south to 96th Street.
There are no posted weight limits. Between Gray Road and Hazel Dell, 106th Street is a
county road. It will be a City street effective February 2003. After reviewing the site,
the Department might ask that the berm be extended a little to the south. Mr. Lillig is not
sure but he wants to look at it. His concern is for the homeowners to the northwest. The
petitioner will need to speak with Scott Brewer about the landscaping. The Department
of Community Services will ask that BZA approval be contingent with acceptance by
Scott Brewer of their landscape plan. There is an existing tree stand the petitioner will
want Mr. Brewer to take into account. Mr. Lillig wants Martin Marietta to consider Mr.
Cash and Mr. South's comments on the slopes. They need to balance those interests
while addressing the issues of fence and berm. Laurence Lillig received a revised copy
of commitments today. The only change was the language regarding the land
availability. It was added again. The homeowners did not think it should be part of the
settlement agreement. There will be a public hearing on both projects on Monday, April
22nd. The right of way for East 106th Street will be worked out with the Mueller trust.
This will occur when zoning approval has been secured. The Gray Road right of way and
the 500 to 600 foot wooded segment, can be accommodated also. It will be through the
Board of Public Works and Engineering. Laurence Lillig will check the Thoroughfare
Plan and confirm it. Dedication will be to the County at this time. The City does have
the right of way that extends 400 - 500 feet as part ofthe Hazel Dell project. The
petitioner will consider what is the best way to handle slopes.
Laurence Lillig discussed Tom Yedlick's comments.
The petitioner should be prepared to address noise generated by this operation at the
public hearing. The temporary berm was the consultant's recommendation to limit the
possible noise of the dredge. Trucks will use flashing strobes instead of noise for backing
up. The hours of for overburden removal will be between one half hour after sunrise and
one half hour before sunset.
Regarding the noise abatement of the processing plant, Mr. Warshauer commented that
moving the processing plant to the east side is an accommodation for the property owners
on the east side of Kings wood. It will cost Martin Marietta millions of dollars to
accomplish. Moving farther away will improve the noise problem. The petitioner will
use a rubber/urethane screen cloth to construct a shield facing Kingswood Subdivision.
The noise abatement should have a positive effect. Martin Marietta will commit to
retaining the tree buffer.
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Mr. Yedlick asked if Spectra consultants made any recommendation regarding noise
abatement. Spectra consultants recommended constructing an 8-foot berm with a 3 to 2
slope beginning 50 feet from the Kingswood line. A berm was not originally proposed.
But, this was the desire of the Kingswood residents. Spectra recommended the
construction for noise abatement and as a visual barrier.
Lillig inquired about the mining plan in regard to wastewater recovery. The term might
be "water" as used to convey materials. In the processing plant, the sand and gravel is
dewatered. That water will flow into lake on the east side of Hazel Dell. In order not to
raise the water level in the plant site, a pump located in the east lake will return the water
back to the west. There is nothing coming back to site that was not there before. Most of
the solids are being extracted. The pump is used to maintain elevations of both lakes.
There is a settling pond. The pump is located at the far end. John South stated there
needs to be a system to cleanse the water. This is a typical operation and will be used on
this site.
Mr. Yedlick asked for a commitment that sand and gravel extraction north of 106th Street
be complete before starting on the south side of 106th Street. Mr. Warshauer has received
different plans suggested by different people. The mining sequence map delineated it in
phases with arrows to show direction. Mining will begin at the Mueller property and the
Martin Marietta property. Activity will move along the north half of Kingswood first.
Questions 5, 6, and 7 all deal with sequence. Mr. Warshauer stated the idea is to move
and do the area along Kingswood first. It will move back to the east side and then to the
west. Preference seems to depend on where a resident lives in Kingswood. Each
individual has a different idea. The plan is to be closest to Kingswood first. Presence of
a berm makes it less of an issue. There will be a consistent view across the south line of
Kingswood. That is the plan Martin Marietta proposed. The phasing plan answers
number 5. Whether it is satisfactory, is another question. Max Williams stated Martin
Marietta was not prepared to answer 6. and 7. David Warshauer stated they are not
asking for any approval to do anything south of 106th Street. On the north of side of 106th
Street, much has to do with efficiency. He stated Mr. Ledlick's concerns are valid.
Martin Marietta wants to create a consistent visual and noise barrier throughout the life of
the operation. That would render the exact sequence less important.
Storm water pollution prevention plan and reclamation sequence were discussed. John
South understands that Max Williams will provide an erosion control plan. Storm water
discharged from the site is subject to Rule 6. IDEM monitors this rule. Martin Marietta
is responsible for water sample tests. Typically in this type of operation there is very
little water discharged. Dan Hoskons stated all affected areas are inside the project. A
lot of runoff is not seen. Mr. Warshauer said their plan is dictated by rules ofthe state
and federal law .
Regarding the use and maintenance of Mueller property, the plan is to farm the land.
The Department of Community Services will ask that the urban forester approve the
landscape plan. Mr. Ledlick asked that the plan be acceptable to a majority of
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Kingswood property owners. Mr. Lillig stated the Department would prefer that approval
remain with the City. This would be an approval process through the Board of Zoning
Appeals and not in the hands of the homeowners association. It is a City responsibility.
John South understands the berm and fence would be removed after the mining is
completed. It would revert back. The Kingswood owners have expressed a desire to
have a lake view. John South and Steve Cash commented on the underwater shelf. Mr.
Cash will provide detail. Specifics ofthe landscape will need to be discussed with the
urban forester.
Written commitment to the site plan and other matters was requested by March 14,2002.
David Warshauer was not there that night. The remaining items were discussed in the
settlement agreement. They deal with litigation.
David Warshauer does not necessarily see the landscape easement as a major problem.
However, Martin Marietta would prefer to own or not own the adjoining piece of
property, rather than own some, not own others, and own some subject to someone else's
rights. Therefore, he cannot say if the petitioner would agree to that.
In regard to commitments, Martin Marietta will conform to DOCS' requests. As to the
future contingencies, Mr. Warshauer does not know what those would be. They are
committed to concurrent reclamation. The type of reclamation is the creation of the
slopes and the lake. It is occurring as part of the mining process. He does not know how
to phrase that any differently.
As part of the litigation settlement, Martin Marietta will pay the City to enforce
commitments and a sum of money to Kingswood for other purposes. He believes the
City is the appropriate body to enforce commitments.
Kelli Hahn had no comments.
The meeting adjourned at 5:49 p.m.
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