HomeMy WebLinkAboutCRC-03-12-03
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S.RC.Mceting, Wcdn~'Sday,IMarch.'12; 2003-
CARMEL REDEVELOP-MENT COMMISSION Meeting
Wednesday,MarchJ2~. 2003
The.m.eeting was called to order byPresideht Rick Roe.seh a.t 7: OTp.. 111.
Commission members prescntwere Roil Carter, Johri.Kovel1, Luci Snyder.and Ed Burke,
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coiIstitutinga.quorum. Also.present'wcre.Ma yor Brai n ard,$ teve' EhgeIKi ng',. Karl.Biias,
Sheny Mielke, Laurence Lillig, Le"S Olds, Kate Weese, Bob Olson,Jon DbbosiewlCz.
The.Co~n2il GiJamberNOOm was'nearly full with members 6f.the public" includi,ng Nick
J(e~!il~r, Bljan'shapiro,JimThomas, Chris McComas., MUlTayBeynon;Tini 0ehs.
,Public Presentations
. .Mr" Roescha.nnotiiIced,thal thi,sis a businessnneeting,of theCRC, not a'Pllbf(c hearing,
'.SO there will be'nocomments from theJJl}blic or\ tliejiresentations.
City Center Concept ~ Luci Snyder
Msc Snydenhankei:! everybody for attending.
She gave. a brief review of how the eRG liadan'iyed ~ttnis"s.tage, noting that the
redevelopment of City Center begall'fivexears or so ago. It. startedwllh a plan,which had
retail in fr6iJt"with.a ni(Jviethe:atei'. and.mostlyoffice.in the;rear: Butsihce, thelmarkets
are in a slump the:developmenthas been sloW;. Retail develcipers y/ere.it6t inter;;stea u'niil
rooftQps were in place so there wouldibe people,to'buy'the"goods'in. the stores, AMLI"
bought thMirstpiece oflan,da~dthat l3'rge, vefy attra~tive PJ'i)jiOct is almost,finished,
Then came Mr. Kestner's newbikc,sl)op, 'the Ryland townhonies"Chris R~id aPh(:
corner6f Third afld Cily Center Drive.
We,beganthe.pllblicportion of.this~plan,witha large area lip the.midd1e.for public
g~tlleringspace,.enyi~ione.das a.mall, with Jiopefully afi'amphitheater. That was,live'
years ago andju;t a.thollght but now the Rotanans.hii'le CClITle,.to utani:! will help raise
moneytoactuallYihringit to,fmition..the public space,is-something we're most
concerned with keeping. Th~fit'st'fiafi or this is tht: rt:if}ectin'g pond, used:both'summer
(with'walkways and'trees and lights) and winter (with-ite skating neXt ye'atJ"Wejs.old
about'f6ur ac,res OD the.n.orthside \9)he.P~dcor Qrollp andthey"re,going tohuild offices
including tlleir oWll'anli ParKs:and th"HJtilities will be there. On' the sOlJth side4the '
pQndis four acre~;which wesolct to Kosene,and they're building apartments:and
condoniiflilJ}'ns, Wewete; then -'eft wit]] whaf wecQnsider.the,mosLimportanL:coreatthe
CityCenter, the part we thought'.WOlild go first,;lllongRange Line ROlld:ThaCs where
Mr. ,Skjodt.came.iV, About.a,year'and. a half ago .he proposed-:buildingan iee.skadiulTI.and
Rick [Rosechland'Llookcaiat'iCand:said.i! was veery nice..He Wanted. to build it along
RangeLine Road. ana we said that was prohabIY'not,ago'od location {or that He trie'd:1O
]9ok;at;i1differcnt loc~lion fu~ther'QacR.in City.center budIiere were egress problems and
duringthaPtime We were,talking .about \'ihafit '-':IOllld [o.!JK. like ,and how it Iyould
fUIlction, what is necessary, wbaiwe neetL .
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CRC Meeting, Wednesday. March 12,2003
Twopads have always been held out for public use, one for a museum, one for a
performing arts center. There were uses we needed in our community, Mr. Skjodt listened
to me, Obviously he wants hockey but there were other uses there, There might be
conventions and showplaces, there certainly needs to be a home for the Carmel
Symphony and other musical gro\lps to perform, It would be large enough to seat 5500,
small enough for seating for 1,000 for more intimate performances. We need a home for
the Carmel Players and a museum area to house traveling exhibits. Mr. Skjodt patiently
redesigned and patience and money is required when you redesign.
This February the CRC had an annual retreat planning session and we discussed the fact
that the core land wasn't moving. Lauth had come in and given us an attractive design but
they had a very difficult time, moviilg things in and out, probably because of the
restrictions we.had. So we decided that we would take a new look, adding the two public
parcels (museuril and performing arts center) which would make an area of twenty-two
acres and go back to the development community and ask them to think innovadvely,
keeping in mind a few basic architectural requirements, eased slightly from complete
Georgian to something compatible with Georgian. We said, "It's important to keep the
public open spaces because when we're finished we do want those spaces for the
commuliity for whatever activities that we intend to have in the future."
So I went to Linder, Rick [Roesch] went to Lauth, I went to Mr. Skjodt. And he had been
evolving his building but looked at the possibilities and said, "I think we,can do
something else." I haven'tseen that something else but like you I'm interested and eager
to see what could be proposed..Another thought, another vision, we're kind of an
involved community. We play sports, our children play sports, we go to the symphony,
we want to see small jazz groups, we support the arts, fine, visual, performing. Mr.
Skjodt, with that as a lead-in, we're eager to see what you have to say and we particularly
like it because you are a pUlt of our community.
Mr. Carter: Luci, before they start, I think the liberal use of "we"may be a little bit
inappropriate. This original proposal was never in front of us. We as a group did not pass
judgment on this, either favorably or unfavorably. I don't want that impression left that
this Commission looked at this program a year ago and thought it was good and
appropriate. You and'Rick may have done that: When I saw it I didn't have that
impression. So I just want to c1ear.that up, this is not something the Commission blessed
then and it's not something that the Commission has blessed yet.
Ms. Snyder: You are COlTect. I didn't mean to leave that impression. Mr. Skjodt came to
us. [t was an inappropriate use. But he has worked for a year to redesign itand with the
changing parameters we have something new that even I have not seen. So [ will say "I"
instead of "we" and hope for the best.
Chris McComas introduced himself, noting he had worked with the Commission before
when he was representing Brian Shapiro. "Mr. Skjodt asked me to help him fit his vision
into the City Center project."
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CRC Meeting. Wednesday. March 12. 2003
[Display board was set up facing the Commission.]
Blueline Enterprises, LLC, proposal was for a 100,000 square foot civic center design
which includes a grand hall attached. to a multi purpose center, a hotel, retail buildings, a
parking structure and a health and wellness center. The civic center itself would include
restamants and suites. The grand hall would be available for art shows, conventions,
business seminars, etc.
Architect Murray'Beynon, from Brisbin Brook Beynon.Architects, Toronto, Canada, did
a power [loint presentation showing other similar projects his finn has done. He explained
the many different uses of the center and showed the various setups possible, noting the
concerts could be held in both the large"building, seating 5500-6000 and in a smaller
venue, seating 1500-2000.
Mr. Beynon continued: We see this as a community focus, a place people like to come.
Certainly a place devoted to family entertainment. Because of all these different types of
events, it will be attractive over a year's time to everyone in the community.
Mr. McComas: The quintessential building for Georgian architecture is Faniel Hall in
Boston. What we're proposing is that the grand hall be a replica o[Faniel Hall. In
addition, we want to wrap and lower the scale of the multipurpose center in architectme
that's reminiscent of the strip dormitories at Harvard, also Georgian, to break down the
mass of the building. [Dra\ving shown.]
Tim Ochs, attorney with Ice MilicI', representing Blueline Enterprises, LLC. Mr. Skjodt
and his family are excited about this project. They are residents of Carmel and are excited
about what they think this project can bring to Carmel and to the City Center. we hope
you share in our excitement. We have a request for the Commission. We letter of intent
requesting not asking for yom approval of any specific component of this project. What
you have seen tonightis like an iceberg, what's above the surface. In order to see if this
development is a viable project, there's'a lot more work to be done. In order to
accomplish that work, feasibility studies, business pro formas, marketing studies, more
design and more work with the community of Carmel as a whole needs to be done. That
takes time and'much, much more money, What we are requesting is a ninety day period
in which.the Carmel Redevelopment Commission would agree to deal exclusively with
Blueline in order to see if this project is indeed viable. Nothing more, nothing less. But'
before Paul Skjodt and his family arc willing to invest the significant dollars to move
forward. To even make that determination, we would like at least an indication from the
CRC that this is something that might work. Let us do those studies and bring. them back
to you and give you more information and permit us to attempt to show YOll that this is a
wonderful project for Carmel. If you decide otherwise, after we bring you those studies,
so be it. But for now we simply ask that you indicate to us that you are somewhat exciied
about the project and would like us to proceed forward.
Mr. Roesch: Does this preclude in the future the center for performing arts and the arts
museuin that we had originally in our plan?
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CRC Meeting. Wednesday. March 12.2003
Mr. McComas: No, two future buildings are still in the plans on either side of the.town
commons. Sites are reserved for them. . .
Ms. Snyder: There are great concerns about the Carmel symphony which doesn't have a
home. Acoustically. how well designed is this facility for their needs?
Mr. Beynon: Very well designed. Thebuildiilgs are designed acoustically with sound
. absorption for a concert hall. The way you get the noise and activity for sporting events is
you play back in the sound system the crowd's noise to them which builds the energy.
Ms. Snyder asked if the acoustics were still good for the smaller concert venue. She also
asked about the sets.
Mr. Beynon: Yes, it's basically moved into an amphitheater mode. The'sets work
because of the overall height. They are moved up and down.
Mr. Burke asked how they arrived at the number of parking spaces and the traffic
patterns.
Mr. McComas: The number of parking spaces was based on the square footage of all the
components as well as the maximum occupancy ohhe multi use center. Furthertraffic
studies will need to be done to determine the patterns. In addition, we've considered a
redesign of the parking garage since this proposal was put together to alleviate a problem
with the Monon Trail. We believe we can build a parking garage across the MorionGreen
Road to build a built-in ramp over the top of the Monon Drive without having so spend a
great'deal of money to build that crossing of the Monon. And in that way get us
additional area to build a parking garage. Exact amount of spaces and layout is yet to be
determined after further studies.
Mr. Carter: While this is improved over what I saw last April 11 , as i mentioned to you it
still has inherent in it the objections that I had then: the traffic study. More than likely
that traffic study is going to show that with the amount of events ihat will be held in that
facilitythat this is going to generate somewhere between 100,000 and 150,000 trips. For
those of you who are not familiar with that, that's'what our planners and Redevelopment
Commission look at when they begin to analyze what impact traffic is going to have on
the community, on the neighborhood, etc., the number of trips generated. These trips are
goingto be generated at the beginning and end of an event. It concerns me how we \vill
take care of that amount of traffic that is generated in those compressed times. I don't see
that changing in ninety days. That's a drawback that I don't know that you can get
around.
I had also mentioned that I was concerned about where the rental cost would be scaled for
our civic organizations and whether they would be able to afford a venue of this nature.
Generally their activities are on a very' tight budget. But what concerns me even more is
that if you are planning 150-175 major spectator events. during the year, what kind of
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CRC Meeting, Wednesday, March 12,2003
dates does that.leave then for our community groups to utilize the facility? If it leaves
them without dates then that means we have to do the performing arts center. But then do
we have the money to do the performing arts center when you're looking to us to put a
fair amount of money into the infrastructure that will support this? Those are my
concerns.
Mr. Beynon: The one thing with respectto traffic is, first of all when people go to
spectator events, whatever our likes are as individuals, whether it's sports, arts,
entertainment, concerts, a lot more people today are making it a longer period of time.
They want to go have dinner or they'll go and have dessert and coffee afterwards. We're
finding 'these peak loads when everybody used to come immediately in the last fifteen
minutes and leave in the last fifteen minutes is not happening.
The secoild observation.is when it is happening. We're not doing it when there is the
peak demand, between 4:30 and 5:30 in the evening. It starts about 6:30 going until 7:30
and then certainly when the road network has much more available capacity'when people
are leaving.
Finally, with the inclusion of retail and especially restaurants, they finding that they are
able .to attract the people before and after the event.
Mr. Carter asked Mr. Beynon if his company had built one ofthese in a community of
our size, 55,000-60,000 including the whole township.
Mr. Beynon: Elmira {New York] is about 60,000. Another one which has been an
enormous success, was built in a town about 60,000, BaJ1'Y, Ontario. It was one of the
first multi-use centers'built and had all different types of areas in it. It had about4,000
seats. It still has a waiting list forsiIites: It still has a waiting list for the 800 seat club
section.. Elmira's is basically the same, it just hasn't been in operation as long.
Obviously you have a considerably larger population outside your municipal district.
They do not have that.
Ms. Snyder: Obviously this.is a new concept for us and everybody is going to spend
some time looking into it. Would you please get the names of those cities and a contact
person? We're going to be talking to them and finding out what they like and don't like.
Mr. Burke: Chris, as you know we have a proposal with the area to the east of this.
Would your project be inconsistent with us moving ahead wiih that project?
Mr. McComas: No. We'd like to have two of the six blocks and the parking structure. We
think this is the superior orientation for the development, but if you want to move us
around that would .be fine. If you want to move forward with the retail component in that
corner, that's not a problem at all.
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CRC Meeting, Wednesday, March'12,2003
Mr. Burke:' One of the,things weciid.last month wa's 'to sit back,arid reflect thcpositi ve
things that nave.:happe~ed'over the past few year"and said,that,we should better inform
the community as to what we arc d61l)g 'arid,what\\;e:have:done and ,the possibilities we
are seeking. We're look(ng,for [different] things to corne iwfiont-'of,us, r(the,nihetycclay
period. is:.grantecl,Jhat Vlouid put 'a stcm 6n;t]lose exciting new plans that we,havw'i' seen
yet
"
M'f.. Roesch: When you're looking. at sqmethillg of tliis'rnilgnituge, it take~ a great,de,al..of
money qnd,efforuodo it. I. wish we as 'aComrnission,hai:l that kindof,mbhey and,effort
to spend to do (tiis, Very thiiig, r see.!hit<l~',a.n opportunity. lreally )ike,wliaUsee,inthe
concept: There's 'a.lot of work that;needs' to'be done"but there' s'a.] ot of mOlley tei ~e
. ~pentan~1 I mink it's'very,generp,us of this;grollp,tomovdorward ,,;lth that. In'my
opinion we shou Idgive them the'ninety. 'days.)t'sdbvio,!s to me th~ey havc invested a
slibstaptial amount robring it.:this flIT and 'i{I'I reqllire-asubstantiaLinvesrment over'the
next nineWd1fys.Tliis is t1iebe~t.tl1irig, That grOlmd's lJeen};ittingtherefor fiveycars.'I
see,thi'sas someihing tharcould reallyjumpstart-the wllo1e:'downto\vn area and Tweuld
'not wAnt (o.miss tliis:,opportunity and would not'want',to discourage tliis:type 0'[
investment
Ms. Snyder: Chris, wh,at kind, of studies,qrc YOlt going "to ,be doing in this period? Wilrthe
re~ultsof thoscstuclicsbc'given to'us,telook-at?
Mr. Qchs: As \ICe nioyefonyai'd in'thi~, these s,tqd(e} hQ[l.efiIlly wilfbe of beri~fit to LIS ,
and the Reaevelopment Commission with respect:to evaluating this projecLThose studies
will be aV[tilalJle to youTegardlessofyollr ultimate,decision,
We'ILbc doing traffic,. market study,_pro formabusincss analysis in conjunction with the
rilaiket.We'Walso Ji.~c to cngagejo disc,tissions withthevarious grollpsin thc
'community that might have use dWlis'facility. Tllere is just a;ll1yfiad,ofthi'ngs that n~ed
to bei:lon~inorder to,rcach a conclusiOlHhatthis is agood,project.Ol' perhaps we can
add this,'change ihiIt anct:itbecbmes,a gre,at project, Weiafe confid(~t tliilr.at,tbe eni:l of
the day when all thestudics,are'in and,the Carmel Redevelopment Commission and'th'e
commllnity"as a. wholc n,!~ looked at ,what we,are proposing,thal they're. goingto'be
cxcitedanct everyone in Caimel is 'going to want to' 40 lhis.projc'ct:' '
Ms: Snyc,Jer;,So' yoU are going to make.time tomee,t,with lhe local' organizations? I have:a
statement here:fromthe Carmel ArtsCbuncil which says,lhey li'ayeian open \riii1~1. I have
an open mind. I" like-Rick,.think this_.is exciting. We haven;t had'anythingquiieonthis
scaic;so it's sli rplisi)1g ,
!\:lr Bcy~oi1: When th~ b}lilding'is,don~, I1eave townand;it'.s neit my bLlilding. Ii's the
people of Carmel's ,building> Every comrhllnlty'is different;: CE:rtaiiily wlgt we \viII De
goingthro~lgh over'the three few months" \vill'be not.justpresentations, but workshops,
Pe?pJe in cdiic'!tion'ipepple in !Irti;;andcul!l1r~; pce(jple in'sports,,Pe,ople'in recreation.
Telling,them abit about ourexperience,_ a bit Of-what.our'vision:is,Dut m6rejust to listen
to what ~eople.saythey need, what they .could do in, this building. QUI of that really'
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CRC Meeting. Wednesday,.MMch 12,2003
comes the basisof.use ancHhe basIs ofabllsihesqi]an that makes seJise but one that is
rooted in thisp:i1l1fI1Unirland that:is absolutejye~sential. If you 'don't mi that; ",e'run a
great risk,of'builaing a'nqtryingto opeia!e soffi.ething' thatj~n'l,l:ightforhere.
Mr,; Roe,schasked if K<frl.Hgtashad s~en th",.agteement
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1I1r. Haatsaiil the agtee]hent"ita pliefoutline of,their proposaland.requests ninety days
of-exclusive negotiations. . .
Mr,. Car(et: Have we,done.'this with a.nyone else? IIi.othe[ words-,-provided someone with
an'exclusive'with,l1o remuneration OFeven provided anybody'v/ith an exc]llsive'with
reinun~r1Ition?
Mr. Haas: We have srartedprojects'before'with proposedOfetters of intent andLbelieve,
Ih'ere ha.v~ been lette~s. dfihleril\n w!jic.~ uilderthCl,se we've'agreed, to an exclusive
negotiation period.. We have. atechnicaldi'fficulty,here as, we sometimes. have with:other
piospeqjveprojects,in (hat wc cannot agreelo:an exclusive hegotiation wi tll'~espect to.
property' thah\le nave notpre,-;iotfslyoffered tothe P\loJi(; .,Anq in this. cilse we have
offered to the public two.of these:pieces"the:ones along Range Line Road. Aiuj,so we,can
agr~,ei w.e'are free uniJer.1.aw; t9'agree to ame^t1~lsivecnegotia:tion,willvespect.to.those.
With'respectro the other tWo that}m; tietween:Vetcrafts.\y'!x and theMonciil,wh:af'Ye
neetrtoconsider agreeing to if you ere going:to,approve,this, is.toa,discussionperiod
'. while'w~ ate putsuing the dffer.M( Och5.'i5 aware'of this,
Mr.Caifer:,Thi,s is.tio! eV!en close to a letter of intent.. This isjust aSKing uno provide.an
exclusive while they'deterTl1ine Whcll;cror not,sixWpr ninety days from now they might
wanfto provide us wi'th aJetter orintent or a proposal.
Mr, Haas: I. think'it'.s a commitment on.their part to eilgageil1 good faitl] jl:eg'Otlaliol}s and.
. l,thinktney'v.(O made the commitment tonight,moresrecifically towarcfs.the~fudy they
wiIlpursue. If you're not comfortable with. that, I thihltit ikould notlie;objectiomible;
certaihly.,not on our part, to haveihdudedin'the letter of intent, 'an oliligption' On the,part
qf BlL~ellhe to pursue the study Mr. Oehs'has.outlir~d.
Mr... Carter: These are,studies thai"generally speaking, developers do' as.a.matteFof
course,phor t6 coming to us, f.understand.inalinosr:aH cases, though, that those are
private&ovelopment'deals:and they have an' option and they can'\vorKwith .tIiM arid rIley
don',t have thaI here, SO:lhereissome.J,glless,..rationale.forth~ll. Bulit does concerneme
t~alwe'I'e takirig"it bff the nlarkeCfor ninety daysfarid"we've.already gotailOther proposal
,.,'" . . - -. - < . - -, ' . ~ . - - " , -
.onthetable. Does thal~saythat-lhe folks'who've put the.otfier.proposalon,the tablejusl,
shli,t down.for ninety d~ys; don't' contas.t us"don't.mate aqy.iI11PTo--:cments to what
theY,'redoing, onake,any further actiol1 vJitn us on whauhey'tedoing?
Me Haa~: No, it wouldli't recj~1.ire tliar. In'fact., i.twb,~Id notreq~iteYOlI t6 h'!ve ex~lusiv"
communication :with,Blueline. Wharit,reqliires j's'only exclusive'negotiations, 'So'if,
~orneonewere:to com<<,undimake.a.proposal to the Commission,..you would be.able to
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'CI,<-C Mcctihg.,Wedl1e~Qay, 1y13[ch L2. 2003
entert,!illthat'proposal. Movi ng'bcyond entertaining a proposaHodi scussihg\vhat the
'ten11Swbuld be"that '-'{ould posera,prciIJl<<m under'theagrecment.
'Mr. Carter: Mr.'Ochs, !stl1at'your interpretation orthis?
Mi. Ochs: I.agree with Mr.. Haas.
IyIi'. Kov~n: I'vebccna.member of this Redevelopment C6mmissibftJor'f9.ifr yeats'and
J 'v'ehad-it n,s, my 'own .policy or principleshcre, .whether. I"m sitting. here, on .this
Commission asa council representative o!in my 'p6sit.io!i"on,the, City Council, that lhave
no! il,ndwill not meet witha-dcveloper priorto,a nigllt like tonightwhere'they'v'e niade'if
public. So I hav.e not seen tlJi,s project prior;to:tpnight. l'mgoing,to.share with you a few
of what my imRrcssions.are. .,
\Ve.have:forthe fast foirr,year;; dealtwith this"lancj';atid hov;' to maKe soml;thing happen
on the,land. This is the'project F-ve been' the most ertthllsiaStlc.abouUh'acl have seen.
Granted ifsa bllrkh'off"dtypicturesraI\d i bunch.of fancy drawm~s. but;itaddresses a
need thaf.heretofore hasn'Lbeen addressed in Ci.rY Genter at all, We',:/e talkccraqollt a,
perf()rnling arts' center and I'mih favor of tha't butlike'mostotherdeveloptnents,I don't
think'YOli build a clubhouse and a pOol b.eforeyou stal't'selling,theJots. We've had a hard
time',selling theJotsso therefore ('ve,not been'in'favor'ofaoond ririd a performingriit~
center. A mus~lIiri l.thinl< is an,.absurd waste of money. It'has:no Rlaee'in'our;City Center.
Ii's not. going to generate tevenue. It's going to b~e ri hp\ethat '''e poufrnoney into.
Theconc:ept'that this brings to u,s. ero~~esa lot,ofplanes t!:tat/we're. tryingto deal with.
This,isan opportunity for amateur sporting events thatwillbtlngpeopJeto, ()ur
commill1iH1h~totherwise'ilren'iin our community thatwill support. the shops and
restaurants.ahd:theother tl)ifrgs that ar~going to.-be in City ,center Tve'questioned.all
along:in rnyown mind, that'. if tlley buiw CitY, Center, would I shop'there?We'v,e
approved, asa CiJy COi1l1cil,aproject north o(lIsproposed by'the'same group'that<has'
~iven'us a proposal to develop thi~, '-Yhich"fdoli't tll,ifrk they eyer il,ltended.to bllild from
tlie i:>eginning,Jclon't think;j('s aviableproposal,on thetablc'aithis time. Tliis '.-:interl'
wouldn't;have l5ee'n slippping 9.utsjcte, TlJ dhve;to,KeystclI1c at the Grossing whereJ can
park in a garage, walk in a building, ahd.freqLientmultiple stores witl,louthaving to go
{Jutsid3:, YOU'Cill] caJl it a "lifestyle center: \ il1at;s,not my'lifestyle, I seethis asan
opportunity to bEing'people t6 oj.lr'conimuni,ty: You bring peQ'Ple.in,aniLtlley bring dollars,
to spend here: That's good for the,m~rchantsthat.are;n tlilscenteL
I had a concern whenLcame here tonightthatthis>wi!S a~tllallygoing t6 qestrgy our SLtc
line; from:Range Line Road allihe1way'back to the AMU project. Anything that's:going
to destr6ytliap ,will vote'against.
I expecteq t9'se(a l11onstrosityhere,JiKcsomeof'those in the ,jndustrialparks, nothing
like thesc':drawings"My jaw' mUst have dropped when ],s~w th,e,picture of whaphose
buildings' could lookiike,']fit'can,look.like,that;huildh, I'd really-Iiketo see.ybu~do it.
I'lii wil1ing'toagree.t6 ~Iii~ plan and will make a' motion to accept,it. This is what,City
8
CRCMe~tirg, Wednesday..Marcl1.12"io03
Centerneeds..Thesepeoplc are'colmnitted enough.and proba1)ly have the'wherewithal to
get thejob,d6fte_ The_retailmerchants will lineup to see who can be first to locate here,
rm very:impressed.
r move that we accept ilik Nilletydays isn'Jgoing todo.us. any 11ar,rn. I ihinbt's only
fair. that'we give thtlm the.oppomJlli ty to spend, their moneywithsdme im-,'a, that wtl' riO'not
going.to go away from thimi.'Nobogy else.ha:~ come taus with ihlskind of'plan.and
askeerfofrime to:finishdt.
Themotiotrwas'secbnded by Ms,-Snyder:
Mr. Bur~e r;mYotingag~in~\ that mdtion pl'itlCipally bt\cayse,r think we have a:iotgoing
for:usright now. If we sllUtedown any_kind of mdmentlii11 'for ninety days"Idori't)hihk
it'sappr6priate. FurthermQrt\we do ha\Ccthatone.proposal-in,f'ront of-us, Fm not'sure
cxactlywherc'they are on-putt,ng their h\l_hl~erS together. l'dhate:to.shut ihemdown and
am nor.sure l.heard we are:going:to. shutthat down,
niKe the.' [Biueline] projcct; but Ithink'it's a little early'to;g.iv'e nine\ydays away I[we
hadsQme rough numbers on'wJ1atit.all iooks iike; who's.goingto own -what"whwour
cbminittl)entn1ignt be, if,we were5'littkfuftnel',dowl}theroad, then I could-see granting
.an option.
Mr.. Roe~ch: Lintend to votefont-ii,s. Thein\le$tm~nnhey li_ave m,Elde is,v~ry sLibstantiaL I
liRe whaCthe results are,Jbelieve theysaid;theYleft that open on'theretailpart. Trey 'are
wilting to talk with'tM,Lauth Group. I:iJo'n't:wanta,n,othercity interesteiLin this if we give
the wrongindicationJrere to the investors_ hvoulcllike'tb show thenj'the:n~~ped that I
have for ,'yh<itthey've done.andtheirvisionfor thecommunity,so I'm,going to'vote for-it.
Mr. Cartel" r would just commenUnat last,April :Il, Mr. Skjodt'indiCated,'!tJ l11eanheend
ofour'm~iting,}h'atif Carmeldidn'Vwantthis,cit wOl_ildbe;shopped to other
communities, It's ~Imost a year hltei', It'sijllniwt.-,ayear lat~caIso from,the standpoint of
geliing:numbers and,studies, etc;, together, to determine whethettliis'is'a:fe-asible project
for the inVestor-so It;seems to:,rne.tharwc'~,aJLbe inqetter shape if that .had been done
already alld,brought to US:ilS 'apackage, With_that'sa,id, ]intend'to vole agllins! ital~(),
While rsuspeL;t it;s probablygoing,io be a boon fo,the Commission anyway'from one
standpoint, This willteild to postpone',activityon'majofiteins l.!ntil,after the pi-imary,and r
think that's an'appropfiate thIng to'do. I don't tllink decisions should be 'Hade by this
Commission that'involve whether someone,is ~oing to!'.et elected or not.
Ms, ,Snyder: Ron, you;said,they had-a year to change it,. -Sut'wnatWe sawa year ago' was
a sipglebtliltliftg.It \va~ ,,,\n' ice' hockey arena. This is:not,what)hey~ve,proposed. .AsI
worked with him ancl tolcl him what\veneedecl to k~el:Hh G:ity€en't9r; the site lines, the
open spaces"tlwGeorgian.archifecture, a placeJor the'sYtI)phony, all;of that'has,been
incorpr;irated Ko a 'lot of ~ork and c)langeS.have tieerl made .in'il'year.
MLRoes:r;Ii: Call,f6i',tlie.question,
9
CRC Meeting. Wednesday, March 12,2003
The motion passed, three to two, with Roesch, Snyder and. Koven in favor. Carter and
Burke opposed.
[Fifteen minute recess]
Other Presentations
I. Jack Stafford, Carmel Rotary. I'm here on behalf of the'Rotary Club and want to go
on record stating that we would like to be'a part of the City Center development. A lot of
time and effort has gone into' this; we've talked to a lot of.peoplc in the community.
We've been looking for something special that the Rotary could do for the City of
Carmel. We would be willing to commit our resources over several years toward making
somethif1g special to commemorate the lOoth anniversary of Rotary International in 2005.
We. want to go out and.talk to the people in the community that would be using such a
facility and as long as this facility is designed with them in mind, and provides a summer
venue that fills a void in the community, then Rotary is 100% bellind it. We wilLbe
working on behalf of spearheading the development of an amphitheater.
Mr. Roesch; Thank you. We really appreciate the Rotary getting behind this project.
You're doing part of.our job by surveying the community groups and finding out who the
users will be. I certainly commend the efforts. of Rotary and this is. one thing that really
makes it a private public partnership.
2. Tom Cooler, Cannel citizen and realtor; After reading in the paper about Mr. Skjodt's
project, I.am here to suggest that you also include a year round indoor turf field soccer
practice facility in connection with the rest of the proposal. It would be inexpensive to
construct, yet the value it would bring to the community would be great. Companies and
organizations are attracted to'a community because of the assets which are available.
National and regional soccer tournaments bring people from all over the cOlintry.
Allen Brown, past president of the Carmer Soccer Club, said there are between 2500 and
3000 soccer players in the community. A facility like this could be used by marching
bands, baseball and softball teams, lacrosse. He reiterated Mr. Cooler's suggestions,
noting the need is great: it would be ~ommercially and financially beneficial and bring
prestige to the community. When questioned, Mr. Brown said the field should be .
approximately 65 x 115 feet.and a practice facility would need 500-600 seats. Cost is not-
known at this time but it should use the new longer turf.
Mr. Cooler suggested they do some further researcli and come back to the Commission.
TIF for Clarian
Tom Pittman, Baker and Daniels, representing Clat'ian Health Partners; As you know
Clarian will be constructing a new hospital at 116th and Meridian. I'm here to request that
the Commission start the process for a TIF agreement with TIP. Such an agreement
would.provide for bond financing based on the tax increment generated by Clarian to
provide for certain infrastructure costs in order to make the project work. I would also ask
10
eRe Mwillg, Wednesday, Moreh.12, 2003
forthe Commission~s support with the City Council forann'eXarioiLI'\vould s,lIggi::styoll
direct,your counsel 'to, get,the required reimbursemencagreementfrom CHuian' arid .get'the
process started, '
So move'd by Ms,$nyder. FoHowing'3secohd, by McCarter; the, motion was'
lInanimollslyapproved.
AMLIUpdate "' . ,
J ini Th()mas updated the Commission on the;statlls of the two AMUprojects: Their City
Center:pI'6jectis'nearly'dohe'Witl1 onl~fci1ir-rriole;b[]ildings.kft to coilUJlete. Leasing is
,slow because of the economy. In Old Town l"iStreet southwest; is sqbstantially. complete
with llrid~igr6ilni:twork, 1Jliy've been working willi Kate Weese andihe I$ngineering
Department"putting'in'some foundatisms. 'TheY haye3teJl~ative agr,eemen,ts\vjtji two '
,restauranTs, Bellaria:;s on the:ivIonon and,Muidoori's on the'llortheast comer. Halloween
is,the projected completion date fonllefirst u)1itat le;1st:
Tithe 'yV~rner,is not,yet 9ff tIksite.but.,is 'not affecting day to day work. [Inaudible]
Approval of Minutes for Februarv '12. 200"3
Mr: Roe~C1].asked'for the following correction on, page 6 rega,'ding thefeewaiverS'for
Pedear. ':Mr. Koven was not aUhemeetiligfor this vote, but told Mr. R.oe.sch ti.! h~ve 1~
11,oteiJ in tM,niinuhs tliatif this,issue cameiup,fora vcite,v,ihenhe-was'absent; he would
have voted'against:it;"
Mr; K6venlnoved toapj:Ji6veth(') riliilliteswith thecorrec'tion, Following,a seeonQ.byMr.
Buike, the rnotiol1' was.approved 'villi fouLin.favai', [Ms. Stiyder,was' Olltoft,he room]
Reportt'roin the Mavor
Mayor-l3ralnard had nothing to ,report
Report from'th'e Director
Mr" Engelking reported that'Mr. Truster from.Pizza .King'said~they wllfbedTIov] ng out by
the 'end ofthe month.' '
1.... -
J . ,
Mr, Lillig, pOCs" had nothing to mport
Ms,Weese"Cit~ Engineer, had nothingtareport.
Financiai Report
MS,M ielre, reporteclthe,February2~, 2003,balallce.was $823,i 62'00,
Mr. Roesch'noted,the TIF-payment ,vdl'probablynot be rece1ve,Mfntil June
Discussion followed abolltthe Eden Enterprises iilv6ices. Mf Olds said thereois'a
perfOl'mance bond on.the'proje?t which:wollld cove/any, large ciiffieulties'.
II
CRC ~celing, Wednesday, March.i 2, 2CJO]
Mr. Haas recommended.the,CRC authorizepaynients',lip;to the leve]that MLOlds says
ateappropriateQa.~ed onco!]tradpelformance, Out oUhe amounts'that.he authorizes, a
joint chefk should:be made,out to Eaen Etite~prisesand the: claimantil,l the flmount of 'the
cJaim, Make sure al1,thc'counsels involved know this isthe.way'we'regoingto,handle,it.
That way we:re covered on the claim amouht. To the extehnhat Mr:OTds saId Eden,
Enterpriies,is owed.more, based o~ their.peifonnance aboVe th'e cia;m'a;nou~t, Eden
.EnletjJh~es'Y-'il1 receive that'paymeiit.
Motio11inade bY Mr. Burke to pay the Eae,n Enterprises invoices as suggested by Mr.
Haas its'weli as the othe(invoices; Mr. Roesch asked"about 'the$34:000 check. Mr. OTds
, ',' - - ,..... ~-. ',,' - ..' .. - .. . ,-.'" .
said ii'was,not being inclucied.atthis time. Mr..oI(is-onIYisigned the certificate.fot the
$82,31~inyoice: TRy rieWtotalof.t)le ii'ivoic,esJd,'pe,paid.is$21J';147,8.9, Following.a
second'b:y, Ms. 'Snyder', the'motion,was unanimously-approved.
Reuort'from Attornev
:Goodvear
Mr,: Haas: Onthe GODdyeafc6odemilllti9n.is~ue,.Go~oayeax madeobject.ion to the
. _. - ,. . "C<: -. ..-.
condemnation. Those-objections wcre fejectedbY'the cOiirt,,!-il.ct'itis now'a:clearpath
.towards' condemnat.ion.of the Goodyearfaeility:
Mulaoon's
M'r.Haas['equested,gppro~valto,makean offer to MuldoOI)' ~..onthe.leasehola for.the
average ofthetwo ~ppfaisals, .SO moved oy Ms. Snyder. Following a second by Mr
Burke, ttie.motion was unariirnouslyapproved.
Change Order
t0r.-"Haa(requesied'approval'for a change order signed.by Mr.Roesch in the-amount of
$S:881f6r a.thiityfbot wide buildable'siirfrice to be pIacedbeneath the'uridergr6irhd
detention 'a;ea. S[)'mov~dby,Ms.Sn'y.der.i::-oll[)wingra.'second by"M;. Burke, th~,motion.
was apprhvedw,ithth;'ee in favoI', Cllrfer; SnygeI'. ptirke, Mr.'Kovenoppc5sed. Mr.
Roesch.ahstained.
Reuorffroril Architect
Mllldoon"s Area
Mi'. Olds, discussing thebuiloings:beside'Muldoollos"asked for approval for Mr.
EilgeJking to:get three tomp~titi,!e bidsJor deinolitiqfr()[ t.h,e bUildings as welFas site
paving.. The demolitiollwill consist cif tahng.down the old bike. shop; Cool Beans and
Pizza,Kipg, anc)b.u.ilclihglerrfporary weather walls for MLlmoon':~. Contraftors willl'!e
instructed.that as'soon as they take down the buildings'olo the slab; tllen:SESeO will De.
notified io.come out and take cootaminationreadings by boring holes;in'theJloor
. .
So movedbyML Burke. Following,a<second by Ms. Snyder,the:motioo was
,nmfriihlOusl yapp]'()ved.
.Parcel#4
12
CRG Meeting, Wednesdoy..M,!,cl, 12,,'1003
Mr: Ro~JcjJ askedthe,status,ofFirstlndiana and Parcel #4. MLOldscsaidthey would be
presentirig.deslgris for'\I:Georgi~nsJyle:branch bank building to them next week for their
consideration.
Reports,from eRe.Members
Mr. Koyen' raise9 th~i~sue ohhcPedCor agreementand..the;CRC's waiving, of fees. He
questioned the CRC's~lIth6rity to w~ive r.e~s, statilig thai mithOlity wOllld,comefrom the
Mayor and, the Board of Public Works. "We've'lIndettaken actionwhiclVisnClt'il1'our,
jurisdiction."
. ".'. 'I'
[Inaudible]
- I;.
Mayor Brainard: The DepartmentlDQC.'illegally docs hot haye theribility to waive its
own fees. Th8[,Canbe,done,int'he-caseof utilities, only bya.BoardofPublit Works. arid
SafetY attiClI'1"by DOCS'hy"dibn dCthe City Council and probably the'Township Board
becausc'ofthe joinder agreement. '.. .
Mr. Koven: We've createclam()ri~tSl!Jiere, IftlierC'$ a,shol1falljn 'the DOCS";budget,
we're. aSKed to make'up 6(j%'andth~'Township 4-00/0. ImtllC event where weh<l;ve':waivecl
fees I wO.uld,qt!estion i'h,elJ1,er it's in our jl,lrisdiciion to do that because it's the fiscal
matter whIch shouldpnibably be approved by the'.City Cotlncil ari~ theTownship.
, .
Mayor B)'<l;iriard, The Tq~v~ship aOt;S npt:h'ive'thea1:iility'to~dQ.a special appropriation
either likeiheCity'does. When we'nrst'talked,abOtlLlllis, I may not have. foreseen ~'ome
of the issuesth,at wouldtoll1emp and],'!1 take'some:responsibilityfor that. But I-have,a .
solution ,Ohe s6J'uti<;m ""ouid be,to liave the ege pay the tee or redlJ~e the. land price,
What'I rllinkcolllcLbe done, again.fha\ien't done the legal work on this,so I'iflike yiJllC
opinion, is. thilttlie'departments;go,ahead,.and.isslle,perrnits and. accept.a,wrilten promise
'ftom CR'C that they'll be'paid'hi a.riumjJet'of fnoi1tl1'~, say sixtY '0[;50" That wollldsolve.
thecash f1owproblellls,
ML I-laas: Or-altemMj'vely, Ithink the amount onecs involved'with nOeSis relatively
~m,an;,$4\OOQ of'$5,()OO.Wehave.in theprojectagrcementeyery,time wesend,our .
oftkial inspectorsther,e, it's arpayment of'S) ,ClOO. that ':>ia,s ihtehdei:! tocoyerM r: aids'
fees. Theremay'be situatio'ns wherehecioesn"t need to,go, we;jl;send someoneJr6m
BOGS \"ho has;to:go:,arYyway ana'Wc'lUecover tha.Utle.
,MayorBrainind:Mr. Duffy"fromUii1ities; isvery.concerncd ,ahoutthe waiver. of lltihty
fees,
Mr..Rges~h,Tihink we've come, to a consensus, here thnt we can't waive fees. 'How dowe
solve this"problemwith,Pedcor? We could get thisdcftrred and when we getirito PhAse 2
we'could,)ust-reducc the price.
Mr.J(ov~n: I think, we need to preparea'resollltionauthorizing the'walvgroffees on this
~~. .
13
t;::RC Mee~ing, W~dhesd~y, M<lrdl ]t:;~603
Mayo] Brainard: rm.not opposed to doing that, but Ipromis"d Mr Duffy I wouldn~t
comc here.tonight and ,agree to ,waive his feedar him.
Me. Kov~n: I.c'oricur with Unit aniflike you.:.kilow tl.lats,how \,!e've,managed.to keepcour
utility fees low; from connectivity aildavaila15ility fees and iI don'twaflt to see IhaLgQ'
away, B,lt.at this,poinhn iime, I;m.llOl willing'asa Redevelopment Commission,member
to tunla~ound andreiinburseti~ilities for that expensy o/hichis something we. should
never'have gotten into in the first place..
Ithink this'body should adopt a reso]utiOl1"atollr:next.meetihg,statiilg tliatwe db.not
waive fees,jt is.nbt within our'j.uris'dictionto waive fees. and.tilat.way this body, five
years from now has a documenUbgoback to'atW:say, "Vje cimil()t dp that"
Discussi()11 fol1ow.ec:l.
It.vds de,cid.ed,t6 have),,!.!'. Haas prepare.aresolutionbring it,to the nexbmeeting.
New Business
l'ione
Corresoondence
Noticewi\s received 0'[ a public heating:on thePedcbr project \;Vhith Will be Tuesday,
March 25: 9 a,m .in the Ca~cus Room Mr. Burke volunteered to attend the hearing.
NexfMeeting
~he next. m~etingdale is changed to Weanesday, April 16. Executive;session,al 6:30
p.m.,regu1l1r rilceting:at 7PJTI.
AdiilUrrimimt .
There being.no othcr.business'before theeommission, Mr BlIrkemoved \h" ineclitij;"bc
adjourned..F6I1owing'8 second by Ms. Snyder, the'motion. was unanimously approved
,ahi:llheineetingai:ljQ\Jmedar9'S6 p:m, .
14