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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCRC-03-15-00CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION Wednesday, March 15, 2000 DOCS Conference Room 6:00 p.m. AGENDA 1. Call to Order 2. Approval of Minutes, 2/1/2000 and 2/7/2000 Meetings 3. Presentation by Brian Vargas for the Marketing Poll for the Performing Arts Center 4. Financial Reeort 5. Old Business 6. New Business A. Opening of bids for "City Center Site Preparation and Improvements, Phase 1" B. Ap 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 8. U 8. 9. ?QpldO? d? 12. 13, 14. proval of Invoices Susan M. Neal Susan M. Neal Robert C. Bommer Integra Realty Resources Wabash Scientific, Inc. Hahn Surveying Group c ects- Add' a 22 CSO Architects - Add' I.Services #19 E & B Paving, Inc. R arnes?r-"Lott{ Eft;pg--• Daily Ledger Paul I. Cripe, Inc. August Mack Environmental, Inc. August Mack Environmental, Inc. TOTAL $ 4,500.00 $ 4,500.00 $ 4,500.00 $ 2,000.00 $13,854.70 $25,633.12 $ 2,210.00 $ 58.87 $14,371.54 $ 1,750.00 $ 9,635.00 $190,987.23 C. Resolution 5-2000 for approval of the Stayer contract, authorizing purchase of property on Range Line Road, when-funds are available. Signing of Documents (if any) 8. Schedule Next Meeting 9. Adjourtunent zlredevcanvnt2000 March 15 Agenda oz.i q8' ?C.LIS?4 S3Q5 /0 slp CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION Meeting, Wednesday, March 15, 2000 The meeting was called to order by President Rick Roesch at 6:05 p.m. Members.present Were Ron Carter, Amy Boldt, John R. Koven and Susan Westermeier. Also present were Clerk-Treasurer Diana Cordray, Mayor Jim Brainard, Councilors Luci Snyder and Wayne Wilson, Karl Haas from Wallack, Somers and Haas. Phyllis Morrissey as support staff. Approval of Minutes Mr. Koven moved the minutes from the February 1, 2000, meeting be approved. Following a second by Ms. Westermeier, the motion was approved. Ms. Westermeier moved the minutes from the February 7, 2000, meeting be approved. Following a second by Mr. Carter, the motion was approved. Presentation Joining the meeting now were Mr. Brian Vargas, Ms. Jill Bakehom and Mr. Andy Hutcherson from the Indianapolis University Public Opinion Laboratory, who presented a Research Proposal to study Carmel Residents' Opinions of and Support for the Development of a Performing Arts Center.and an Art Museum. Info packets were distributed to members along with a rough draft of the proposed survey and several samples of previous similar surveys done by the rUPOL in Indiana and other areas of the country. The rough draft of the survey distributed proposed 400 "completes" which would give an 85% margin of error, the minimum acceptable number recommended. Approximate cost for this survey would be $12,800. After the presentation, questions were answered. Discussion followed. Mr. Vargas noted that included in a previous survey done in 1995 for the Carmel Parks Department was a question about support for aperforming arts center and he recalled the response was very favorable. (We will get a copy of this info.) Mr. Vargas also noted the Commission will also need to research the potential usage of the Performing Arts Center by the different arts organizations in the area. He called this "usage from the top down" as compared to "usage from the bottom up" by the citizens. After answering all questions from the Commission, Mr. Vargas, Ms. Bakehom and Mr. Hutcherson were-thanked for their presentation. Financial Reports Clerk-Treasurer Cordray reported the amount of the arbitrage is not yet known. Jim Higgins from London Witte is working on that. Balance as of March 1, 2000, is $896,656 in the City Center Fund Ms._ Boldt asked the Clerk Treasurer if the arbitrage has a possibility of accruing penalties and interest. Ms. Cordray said she thought the possibility existed because the project has been so long and drawn out. Mayor Brainard said we were given two years to finish the project, then they take the difference between the interest rate we're taking and what we actually earned on.it. There's also an exception if a good faith effort is made which is where he thinks we'd fall. Mayor Brainard distributed a draft of a financial report with projected revenues and expenses. Mr. Roesch noted this will need to be revised on a monthly basis as our projects continue, but it does give'the Commission info about where we are, how much money we have to spend. Mayor Brainard went over the financial report and explained the details: First of all no interest revenues are included. No revenue is included for any leases we might have income from. Dates have been included where possible and Mayor Brainard feels the dates listed are realistic. The master plan for City Center was discussed in conjunction with the financial report, with explanations of the different expenses listed and noted. Mayor Brainard is engaged in discussion with several developers who have expressed interest in.different portions of the City Center. Cost of the construction of the parking structure (2002) is for 400 vehicles. First Indiana has an option on one of the City Center sites as part of the transaction at Merchants Square for part of their land we had to use there. Instead of paying them cash for their land, they have an option to exercise at City Center. They will probably be rebuilding the one near Marsh and then possibly building a new one at City Center. Mayor Brainard continued, explaining what will need to be done with AMLI's $4,000,000: We need to do the site preparation for 5965,000 for the AMLI site, part of our agreement to have a buildable site. We,have to move the pond around, change some elevations, get utilities in there. The financial report assumes we've closed already on the Beverage site, the old town project with its demolition, vacation of the street, underground wiring (S 150,000). The Kestner purchase (S 1,200,000) is for him to relocate his business near the Monon. The Goodyear purchase (1;000,000) (possibly relocating to Guilford and Main Street). These two need to be done this year to allow these businesses to move. Mr. Koven noted he was at the Goodyear store today and it was closed, but a sign on the door stated it is going to be renovated and reopened..Brief discussion followed. Mayor Brainard will contact the owner to see what is going on. Mayor Brainard noted that Karl Haas just signed papers for the AMLI money to go into escrow. (Mr. Roesch will also sign the papers tonight.The escrow agent has control of the 2 funds now.) Two things have to happen for the money to come out of escrow: rezoning and approval of the wetlands mitigation. The Carmel Plan Commission and City Council have to approve a zoning change. If they waive their rules and vote on it at one meeting, it can come out of that meeting on March 21st and go to the April 10th City Council meeting and then be approved at the April 17`h Council meeting. Next Monday at the County Parks Board meeting there will be a resolution presented by our lawyers which hopefully the Board will approve, allowing us to mitigate two of their park sites so we. don't have to buy the land to mitigate. Once we get that approval, the application will be sent to IDEM the next day and they have promised us a two week tum-around. So we should be out of escrow on April 1 g`h if all goes as planned. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray asked if Mr. Kestner, a new member of the Plan Commission, will be recusing himself from the voting. Mayor Brainard answered affirmatively. We are obligated to maintain the wetlands for at least five years, so we will be contracting with J. K. New Company to manage the wetlands. That is the $350,000 listed in the financial report. Ms. Boldt asked which line item the cost of the survey would come from. Mayor Brainard replied it could be included in the contingencies or in the Professional Fees. Mayor Brainard continued: This bond was not meant to handle the performing arts center and art museum. That was always going to come later, just like we got started with Hazel Dell before we issued the bond. Then we got started with closing on the Kroger before we issued this bond because AUL had a need to sell it before the year end. If we go ahead with the second bond, (and of course that decision hasn't been made yet) but if we do, then we have the option of expenses associated with a performing arts center being reimbursed to this fund. We've done that before and we can do that again. I didn't show that in here because we're not sure we're going to go ahead. That would be Vargas' expense and the CSO's expense for figuring out how much the performing arts center is going to cost, doing their initial design work. Before we can sell the retail property areas of City Center we will need to build the parking deck. The $3,200,000 is the estimated cost for 400 cars. Cost will vary depending on the number of vehicles it will hold. Mr. Koven raised the question about the Sherwin' Williams cost. Mayor Brainard replied that is under contingencies on abuyout. We don't know how much that will be and we're still negotiating the one with the hairdresser who moved out. Mr. Koven stated he would like to tear down the Kroger Center tomorrow. Mr. Roesch agreed it is a PR problem. Mayor Brainard said the specs have been prepared to take down everything except Sherwin Williams. We need to talk about that decision. (Mayor Brainard will continue *talking with the "cleaners" people.) The local manager of the Sherwin Williams wants to move, but Cleveland is holding him up. Mayor Brainard will follow up with this. Discussion followed about setting a date for the demolition and putting out the specs for the bids. On the financial report, Mayor Brainard noted for each phase we will need to do some roadwork. The $900,000 is the estimated total over the life of the project. The $1,700,000 for landscaping, etc., is also over the life of the project, so we can time when we do those things. Professional fees ($750,000) are also over the life of the project. Out of the 54,200,000 after the Beverage purchase we've got basically $3.2 million we need to spend right away to acquire thenext two buildings and do the site preparation. That will put us down to about a million eight hundred, which allows us to tear down Kroger, allows us to proceed. But again the next step is to bid the office buildings, the owner-occupied as quickly as we can. Mayor Brainard said he has CSO slowed down, virtually stopped any more work on the schematic design on the performing arts center. "All I really want at this point is just enough knowledge so that we know what we're dealing with in terms of anew bond and we have that now." Clerk Treasurer Cordray noted that through an audit procedure they do in the office, it was discovered that a lot of invoices for the electrical on the Kroger building have been billed to the City Board of Works and these have been paid by the BPW. She contacted the manager of that complex and the City will be reimbursed this money, which is over $3,000. Mr. Koven asked if the electricity and gas could be turned off for those buildings, but the answer was no because the buildings are not separately metered and Sherwin Williams is still there. Mr. Roesch requested a discussion on how the financial report is looked at and handled mechanically. He asked Mayor Brainard to give revisions to Clerk-Treasurer Cordray to bring to the meetings. He also asked if timing can be determined so that information can also be given to the Commission as soon as it's known. As time goes on more detail on the financial report would also be helpful. Mayor Brainard noted the only thing he knows about the financial report is that every number on it is going to be wrong (because the numbers are always estimates and always changing). The commission members agreed, but asked that as we go along, updates be given. Mayor Brainard agreed to update the report monthly. Mr. Roesch suggested all departments be given a "tolerance level" and that they be told they can't go over that level without an explanation. The tolerance level should be determined. Mayor Brainard agreed that all expenses should come through the Commission and even if on budget, costs should have an explanation. 4 Clerk-Treasurer Cordray said it would help a lot if she were to meet with City Engineer Kate Boyle Weese and Joe Staehler, Director of Administration to expedite the process, so theyunderstand whether the City or the CRC is paying invoices, because some of the past bills have been sent to the wrong "department" for payment. Mayor Brainard said to let him know who is doing that and he would talk to them, but then he agreed to schedule a meeting with Ms. Cordray, Ms. Weese, and Mr. Staehler. (Mr. Carter left the meeting at 8:05 p.m.) Clerk Treasurer Cordray also asked Mr. Haas to let her know if he is working on any more buyouts of leases because some of the tenants are not paying rents which are due and this puts her in an awkward position. Mr. Haas agreed. Mr. Koven stated the key here is going to be communication, noting we've had this conversation before. Speaking as a member of the Commission, he said, "I don't want to find out after the fact any more that we're out negotiating to purchase property or start out on a project without us knowing that is something that's going to start. After the fact doesn't count. Itjust sets the wrong tone. I don't know any of us that are objecting to any of this stuff going down the road the right way. But you've already done it; we've already entered into some agreement to buy a piece of property right here on Rangeline Road that none of us had -a damn idea it was even in the works. And that's the wrong approach, absolutely, positively the wrong approach." Mr. Koven continued, "Before you go do it, tell us you're going to do it. I don't want to see about it afterwards. I'm going to vote against it just because we didn't know about it till tonight." Mayor Brainard said, "I think we did talk about it, John, but...[inaudible]" Mr. Roesch said, "Having information (like the financial report will be helpful). If it's-not on.here, it's going to raise a "red flag". If we revise this every month, when we sit down we should know that "something's coming-down the pike or this has changed for this reason. It's all tied to money." Clerk-Treasurer Cordray: "But my question, for instance on the Old Towrrproject, I don't know what projects are in the Old Town Project. So I can identify those invoices." Mayor Brainard asked to speak about.projects. Using a concept board/map showing the City government offices, he then explained the proposed plans: As part of the Master Plan, the Council, the Redevelopment Commission, and the Plan Commission adopted 2 1/2-3 years ago, the buildings on Range Line Road currently block City Hall from public view. It's always been part of the plan to get that out. It came up again in the TIF district expansion, in the meeting that Rick (Roesch) attended with the Council and then at the Redevelopment Commission. We talked about IF the second bond is approved, this was on the list of things we might potentially want to do and so that was there. We have talked to these owners and tried to get an idea what they wanted for it. Three of the four are for sale. Mr. Stayer came to us and said, "I'm ready to put a new tenant in this building butif the City's going to buy it sometime in the next few months, I'd like some assurance:" The Mayor told him, "Well, we can't [inaudible] that until the bond's approved and it goes.through the process which can take several months." So Mr. Stayer asked what kind of assurances can be given, so we suggested we enter into a contract with him entirely conditioned upon the bond being approved. And that's what you have before you. It's a response to his request for some certainty that if the bond's approved, he wants to know that we're serious about it. I'think that's fair to Mr. Stayer who's trying to get his place leased. He'll leave it empty for a few months if he gets to sell it.. On the other hand, if he's trying to lease it, he wants to know. He understands the risk of the bond not being approved, but it was some assurance we could give. him. Here's the contract we'll use but only if the bond's approved. So that's what we're asking." Mr. Koven asked, "We're not going to end up buying that building and finding he's gota five year lease on it, are we? I have no interest in buying that building unless the day we. buy it the owner's out and we don't have to evict him, and we go tear the building down and we're done: That's a healthy price for that piece of property." Mr. Haas: We'll have to review the lease. Mayor Brainard: Their appraisal on that came in fairly close, within a couple of percentage points. He agreed to $495,000. Mr. Koven: I would too. He probably paid SI 10,000 for it. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray: The invoice I got today from Mr. Haas' firm discusses the Huffer contract. Mayor Brainard explained that is the Goodyear property. Ms. Cordray asked if that was the only other property we're looking at right now. Mayor Brainard: We're also, I'm not sure where we are in the process, but Phil Stewart, the attorney, owns the two (on Range Line Road) towards.the parking lot. Mr. Koven and Mr. Haas discussed the leases on the properties. Mr. Haas said the Commission will approve the leases (for the Stayer property), for whichever. ones are there. As soon as the contract is signed, Mr. Stayer gives us copies of the leases. He can't lease any more. And if we're not able to terminate them or if the terms run too long, we have the right to say no and the earnest money comes back. Mr. Roesch asked if we would potentially have to buy out the leases. Mr. Haas responded: There are a number of ways you can handle leases if the terms extend beyond what you want. One is we tell Mr. Stayer,:thanks but no thanks and we get our earnest money back and that's the end of the contract. There's no liability. The other end of the spectrum, we can go, to Mr. Stayer and say, "The terms of leases are too long and unacceptable tows and we're going to have to terminate unless you're able to do something about this so let's extend the contract for another thirty days and you can tell us whether you're able to get your tenants to agree to the termination." Mr. Haas and Mayor Brainard both stated they thought he could buy them out if he wanted to. Mr. Haas continued: Moving up toward closing and taking leases as they are, we spend the time during the due diligence to see what the buyout is going to cost the Commission. The more realistic choice is either the one where Mr. Stayer takes care of the leases or we figure out in advance how much it's going to cost the Commission to buy the leases out. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray: We have two right now we're waiting on, buyouts from the City? Mr. Koven: I'm only one vote but I will not agree to anything where we have to even deal with the lease. We close on it, it's ours. He has to get the tenant out of there. If there's a tenant in there, forget it. I'm not going to spend more than this for that piece of property. Mr. Roesch asked if we could condemn the property. Mr. Haas responded affirmatively. Mayor Brainard said you can condemn any property interest (which would make the leases "go away"). Mr. Haas:. This contract (Stayer property) is consistent with what you want to do. In other words, if this contract were approved tonight and it's approved on the basis that if.there are going to be any continuing leases or if we have to pay a lease buyout, then we cancel. Ms. Boldt: So we don't know at this point if there are existing leases? Mr. Haas: There are existing leases; we don't know.the terms. Ms. Boldt: What if two months ago he entered into a five year lease and he knows that but-we don't? Mayor Brainard: That's why it's written this way, so you can get your earnest money back. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray: But if that messes up the whole project, do you really think we're going to back away from it? Ms. Boldt: We're not going to want to condemn his property either. Brief discussion followed about the furniture store on Range Line. Mr. Koven: My only interest in taking these properties out here is if we're going to do them all at one time and we're going to hire a wrecking company to come in and tear it all down and it's going to be a park sixty days later. But if we're going to have these little eyesores here and we have to wait six more months on one and eighteen more months, then I don't want to have anything to do with it. Anybody in Carmel can.find this building... it's the tallest building in town. Those were not in the original documents we got regarding the bond. They were added at a later point so it's got to become an "after the fact deal" and this bond becomes bigger and bigger and.bigger. Ms. Westermeier: What's the sense of urgency with this (Stayer property)? Mayor Brainard: Stayer wants to know whether to enter into a long term lease. Brief discussion followed..Mr. Haas noted while Stayer is under contract, he's not able to enter into any new leases. These contracts are really more in the nature of options. When you're negotiating with the sellers, they're somewhat reluctant to disclose everything about the property all but financial terms until they know you have an interest and you've deposited some earnest money ($5,000 in this case). Clerk-Treasurer Cordray: Jim, I have to ask you this question. If we continue to buy property along Range Line Road, on Main Street, property after property, for whatever value, great value or bad value, we can't do anything until we get a bond issue. So that bond issue is just rolling into a bigger snowball. How can you ever stop? How can you manage to do all this growth ourselves? Mayor Brainard: No, it's not. We put in the bond issue; we listed in the TIF documents, the various projects. All these things were in it, in that amount that's listed. Mr. Koven: Only in the last thirty days Mayor Brainard: Yes, because we didn't have any... [inaudible] Mr. Koven: We added all the properties on.Range Line Road, we added Elliott Mohawk Plaza, we added... Mayor Brainard: As potential. The bond is going to be smaller than all those potential projects. We've got to decide when we issue that bond which ones we want to include and which ones we don't. This has been, at least with the people I've talked to the last few years about, seemed to be something that was up higher on everyone's priority, than say, buying Mohawk Place. Ijust listed it in the TIF districts in the off chance, so I wouldn't have to go back and amend it and if this just goes gangbusters we can do it. But until this gets done, I'm not interested in doing it... we're not off appraising,Mohawk Place, or any of that. Mr. Koven: But we are appraising properties up and down here [indicating Old Town area]. Mayor Brainard, using boards showing Old Town area, discussed different parts of the area. He noted the need for additional parking in the area, perhaps another municipal lot. "We're spending money on appraisals in differentparts of downtown to try to get a feel so we know what we're dealing with." Mr. Koven:`Well,.Jim, I'va'just got to telI you. It's certainly,a whole lot more•convenient if you'd tell us this before we start hearing; seeing all the bills we're-getting, Intermission Mr. Koven: l:don't understand why we;have to appraise it.'We wantao'know what the value is,.but why do we care? If we're going to help aggregate it for aAeveloper'then we'll go get an appraisal.The appraisal',s going to change between-now,and a,year from now anyway. Mayor Brainard: For purposes of making an offer we have.to,haye two appraisals by State law. Mr. Koven: But were notprepared to make an offer: We.don'fhaye that,kind.of money to make an offer; Mayor Brainard: I'm trying_to figure out; again, trying.to-control " this.bond.issue. I want -to know what's,in;and what'?s out And so that's the,process I'm.going through an&tr to do my due diligence. Like Brian. Vargas.was saying, "Get the information" so'this group has the, information-to make a good decision. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray But 'we've had all"these discussions about prioritising,the workload because this is not-a big city. My:staff alone is stretched=to the nth"deete'just keeping'track of what I keep track,of. I, can only, imagine everybody else and we are: paying appraisal fees, I'm getting those additional contracts iii, as youiknow, three and four a dayplus:another bill.from Karl for $5,000. You can't do this kind of stuff without incurring expenses Why not'let,.the developer 'incur, these expenses? If someone wants to sell their property ..,.I'd'be.happy to get an-appraisal for $3,000 if 'I could, make that kind of sale an my.ownproperty, " But were doing all these things and-projects may be very valid projects but we re.spending`alotofmoney-,arid how are we going to make them happy? Mayor Brainard: This one, [midtcahi2g Property downtown] Im "assuming will go in1he . next sixty days. All we're trying to do on the otheronc'is'6gure out what it, would cost:if we chose to do it. We put $25-3 million in the list of projects in the'TIF district for, continued Old,Townc development That could be for streets, could be for"this project., We're pretty much:got most of the streets covered We've got,a,couple,more side,strects to do as.we go down Range Line..But';bjust wanted to liave good numbers. Mr. Koven`. I can't speak:onIbehalf of the entire; City Council; but until you have s priorities nailed down and,things"are much more specific than where they are, I don't think there's a;prayer of floating, a bond issue through the City Council in the next six months. Councilor Nilson: Are there some''developers lined up to do any of these projects? 9 Mayor Brainard: Davis-Homes is willingto,do`this. They've been working with the architect on it. Councilor Wilson: Have we got"a.commitment from them?' Mayor Brainard: We-have nothing., We have to bid it. But just hke.City Center,;they've invested;a lot of money and'fime at this point and.they seem very>serious about it. Kosene has indicated an interest. Councilor Nilson: It's not.criticism,at.all because. I' m• the new kid on the block, but.I've read the newspaper like everybody'else out there "for a couple of years' and people want to see something [happening out there]., Brief discussion followed Mayor Brainard: AMLlshould start _construction in May. That's,going to help. There will be alot of activity overthatway. Nick Kestner should start-this summer. Then if we,can get Mr. Rmcken,to move;or retire that-.building can come down. Then,if we can get Sherwin Williams.,. we're right at-the edge Where;a lot ofthings+are about to happen at City Center. Pretty much on our schedule, too. I didn't think we'd be this.far along because"we saw this as:a 5-7 year project when we started. Councilor Wilson: I just remembenthe,statement: when this.first went outto,the media, "We can:sell`this propertyback to the developer in 45 minutes." Brief discussion. Mr. Koven: I don't-want to havedhis going on [downtown] before this [City Center] is. going on. Mayor Brainard: This one (indicating downtown] I think they're ready to go in May. Mr. Koven: I don't; want: it going on with our money. I mean, we'll,acquire.itand and'4f they tum:around and buy it back 'from us°like the,AMLI... Mayor,Brainarde The proposal has always been with .Davis "(and we talked about-this at the'last'meeting) that with thispr6ject we woul'd,get lease payments on.it. Which should be.56', after operating and debVservice. Clerk-Treasurer Cordiay: I don't remember that. Mr. Koven: I'don't'wantto own it, Mayor.Bra_mardAVs in the minutes. 10 Clerk-.Treasurer Cordray: Thenthe city's; going to own a conunmial development Mayor Brainard: Indianapolis has done this over and,cver to get their downtown going: I think in Old Towne-it's the only way we're going to get that going. Davis'is going'''to come in.and build'it but our rent payments'for the.ground lease will be^50%o- of the, income after operating, costs and dcbtservice. Mr. Roesch: That is subject to 'l id; too. Mayor Brainard:'Yes.;Sotnebody may, come in and,o ffer us, cash for it.and that'd be wonderful`ifwe can•get'it done thatway; Clerk-Treasurer Cordfay: But it's'not a'blighted or underdeveloped area because Neil. Stembart.has already-said that,the benefits' from the TIF district thatwe currentlyhavc, we can include all these expenses to do what we'rre doing;because of the great.benefits that will extend alt the way up'there. If°the benefits are,goingto'bethere, wliywouldn't normal, business enterprise grab thatproperty?and go-with'it? Why would the City have to do it? I have areal philosophical„problem witli this because as a Republican'I don't think that's governmcnt's-role_ Mr. Roesch: I'think that. you're;going,to find out,what the demand,is in the bidding, process. And the demand forhow it's'puttogether If Davis comes,inwith a proposal to lease •and.somebod.yelse ;comes:in with cash, even though,on the surface it.may not look like as good a deal,' you' d'have to,lean'toward the cash: Brief discussion. Mayor Brainard: We have the regular seller income.stream. After a,year or so if it's successful; we can alwaytake, that out and sell it. Clerk-Treasurer,Cordray: And:if it's not successful, will we be:able to-sell it?. Mayor Brainard: We could ,seltItfor reduccd.valuet Mr. Roesch; I think that=s all govtobe decided in,the bidding"process. Mayor Brainard asked'Karl Haas to explain how the lease payment formula would be determined, based,on:50%o.ofthe.income after the,operating expenses... Mr. Koven: But we don't control the operating'expenses.-i:think we all understand what; you're saying, but,hypothetimlly,we couid be getting a dollara,montb or nothing: Look at Market.Square'Arena: It never paid the city of Indianapolis anything6ecause?it never' made any money.'That's,probablythe hest picture.of:a,projecf that failed thatI can,think• of and we're.gcing to 'build a bigger one. II Councilor Wilson, Merchants Pointe also, though, the develcperhad:to kick'in'to the bond payment because it didn't creaWenough revenue to make,the.payment. And that's! our super hotshopping center. We'd better realize one thing... it's a gamble ;that this thing is ever going to make any profit-that.we're going to see., Mr. Koven: I'm,not,wilhng to enierinto ' it "betting on,the'come" that wc'may'or'may not get some money Back out of it, Granted, we,may.own the land underneath it, but we can't do much with that; except sell it. And,its valde?with all those improvements:ori it, its main value is to the guy who owns the improvements. We could lose our slinvon that deal, Mr. Haas' You're right; that. Market Square Arena-never paid any money back to the City. But frankly, I wasn't involved inithatbutwhen'I.reviewedthat,it°appeared to-me that it was set up.to pfoducethatresdlt. I"represented; the City of-Indianapolis on Circle Center Mall' and.Mayor Goldsmith's mandate'to me was-to get the.moneyback. He'd put in an additional $30 million above what Mayor'Hudnut had committed, and.he.wanted that money back. So far the City has gotten back something in,excess of$20 million of the $30 million and an additional million dollars-a,year comes in, go it is possible. You?re right; if you are taking a_position in the net, there'sinore risk, but it's not:necessarilythe case that you can't have'enough control over'what goes.in. Pve seen enough.of how' developers manage'to make the net-zero. Whenever they've,gnt,some money in,another partnership, they loan`it to this partnership',at- above inarket rates and;then take that money and invest it. they have affiliates do maintenance. What you do-.is you limit-all those things and`you.impose penalty clauses if theyctieat. l.ean't.tell you.thal there will be a net; but1cantell.you-that,we can structure a deal so that if you have someone pay attention, thatyou,won=t get cheated out of your share of the net that's there. CouncilorWilson: Can-you tellme whya city would be in the?positiori of being a commercial landlord? Mr. Haas: Absolutely. That's because you:have toistart with the fundamental of unfortunate realitythat these are all,bad real estate projects. If they weren't bad real-estate projects, you wouldn't need municipal'involvement: And what you're trying td d'o is spend your money:so that you equalize these projects with what a developer otherwise Would, do; It's so much dasier..for a developer to,go outside.and'buy,a piece of farmland and, not deal`withmultiple owners and the other;5ssues ofurban-development. A developer would never build abuilding that looks like. this ["old time design?,']. Or,maybe it's got a brick facade,,bitt you have.a sea of parking outfront. So if you're going to have urban projects, the.reason you°re domg that is because you're trying equalize what a developer-can do,in a_cornfield. Mayor. Brainard: The other issue why we do it... think about whatwould happen in Old Towne if we-didn't get involyed in partner with,the private sector. What kind-of liability would we be incurring down,the,road '.and having,a blighted area that gets worse and worse? That's why the last Council made the decision to put roughly $15' million in the water and.sewer lines and streets, to rebuild every street in Old Towne. What. you see on top, the pretty stuff;.that was.a fraction of the,cost: They started'from the•ground up,,and 12 redid all"the infrastructure:;in Old,Towne. This, I say,. is the next:step so we end up;with a nice neighborhood down there and'not something that.is continually on.a downward spiral. That,affects'the neighborhoods around it; too. If this turns,into a blighted area,. What's-going to happen to Wilson Village and,the•.area bythe library and thea?it spreads out. And then property values go:down our tax take goes;down. We're putting more money in the.Pohce; we're putting more money in the code enforcement: Look=aroundat other cities in other areas of the country and you'll see. Wc're fortunate. We only have a little area to worry about. Brief discussion.followed `Mayor Brainard: The other, return we're.forge tting.about..,.this- is-going to payimproperty taxes $80,000-W,000.a,year: Councilor-Wilson, This_really creates..a Phase II. Ifyou'e talking about improving the value of Old Towne and protecting your investment, then you've;got to go tP"tbe other side of the street, too. Mr..Haas: After you've done this project, at+substantiahexpense to the Commission, then what you hope•is.that otherprotecis get. done with., very, little, assistance with the Commission: CouncilorWilson:' Do'you know what kind of, square`footage,rates; you're projecting, for the,retail there? I'm concerned about thehusinesses.who are already ther`e'and•wifl"have; to relocate. I read an article where.you [Mayor Brainard] told,the. Shoe Heeier,that=he is going to have the-same rent he's got now on d. riew`building. Mayor Brainard' It quite accurate..It was close, though. Kai], explain what the tentative offer was. Mr. Haas: The offer to the'Shoa Heeler was toprov'ide him with a modular building during construction on another site: Councilor Wilson:`Do 1=understand evictions have been_'sta]_ted' on ;all the-properties•on that block? Mayor Brainard:, Affirmative: We offered a graduated backup to some [inaudiblel. Mr..Haas .Dav,iswas_last taiking.about,$'14-1'7 square foot for,,700-750 square foot;shops.. Some businesses might want more than one"shop space. I think theywere talking;about 75-80 cents a square foot on the,apartments. Mayor Brainard:'Their market is to'emptynesters and.young professionals thai want to live on the Motion: i3 Brief discussion followed. The book, The Edge, City by Joel Garreau, was mentioned as informative. Mention was also made of the number-of pe©pie asking city officials what is going on. Mayor-Brainard asked that citizens be told to call him if theyhave.questions. Mr. Koven.suggested a public forum be held"to tell everybody what's. going on.. .Old Business (continued) Mr. Roesch noted we did receive.the money .from, the Build Indiana Fund, for,$ 150,000, which was deposited.in the General Fund. New Business Mr. Koven distributed brochures he.had picked''up?atHofineister Jewelers promoting a- season of events at the.Pike Performing Arts Center: The brochure, had photographsiof the interior and exterior of the new center. Mr. Koven suggested the,CRC'members might want to check out this new=facility°built on their school campus. He noted it.would.be helpful if f nagcial records would be available from this facility and the" Warren Central Performing Arts Center. Ms: Westermeier suggested,on the survey that we,ask if anyone has been to, either one of these arts centers. Ms. Westermeier, recommended the Commission•members review the survey Trfaterial and come to the. nextCRC meeting prepared to discuss it. Mayor Brainard: I'd like to have a.representaiive4from Artec out of New York City, come to out next meeting: CSO hired their acoustatieians,to.help with the khematics:on the performing arts center: (This firm has been involved in,every"major concert hall in ttie world:) They, also have a fundraising/, marketing division that helps people with questions- like these. Wilhelm Brans is in charge of that division., Respohse was positive fromthe Commission members. [FYI: Mayor Brainard'has arrangedrfor.Mr. Brans to altend the meeting on April 12.1 The Commission and, MayorBrainard, agreed assurances in advance for usage of a facility in Carmel by perfomiitfg arts groups,would.be important: Mr. Koven brought,up auother.item: On the Elliott`MohawkPlaza, if we'had to end up playing apart inthat that.would be,agreat place for somebody toTut arsix or,6ight story hotel, Because if you bring people in fora performing arts-thing-you needy piace,for people tostay. They, could, actually walk back and forth withwa'tunnel' under the road. That's a facility that's not:anywhere else.-You can't go to Clowes Hall and stay across the street MayorBrainard and the Commission%members agreed. Ms. Boldt' Could we use the utilitybills':and" insert•a questionnaire about the performing arts center, like we did=prior to the Farmers, Market?' It was also noted that the City newsletter could' be'used to alert residents about-the iipcomingsurvey and:gathe i input. Discussion and agreement followed 14 Ifem-"A" under New Business (Bid Opening) has been tabled. because we did hot have our common wage construction hearin'g1h time to meet, the statutej should have.been done fourteen days in advance. We have to advertise again, but.notes were sent to all,the bidders stating nothing has changed.. Invoices Information on most of the'invoiceswas sent out earlier. Additional invoices were. received after the memo went out and are listed on the agenda. Two;more were received this week,and are not on`the agenda: One for 510,000 to Baker and Daniels for the wetlands issue and one for Karl Haas-'for $4,8161.50, Discussion about,the invoices followed. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray has over $50,000 in invoices from Mr..Haas!s-firm, but some have not been:checked and approved yetby Doug Haney, City Attorney, and there is also some dispute,on one of them. whether it is the responsibility of the City or the CRC. Mayor Brainard-will discuss these with the City Attorney and they will be on.next month's agenda. Ms. Boldt asked if the; iuvoices.listed on the agenda have all been "signed off' on. Clerk-Treasurer Cnrdray; The invoices.that you, have aren't, signed off by'anyone. It's. .only the City Attorney that really goes through this. He's the one who kind of manages the,outside legal,work. And that's-why he, goes through these andmakes;notations on -them. The-rest of these invoices 4e my working, knowledge. I've talked`to. people.. Appraisals come-from Joe Staehler. CSO,-Jim knows about those. Barnes & Thornburg; I've, revi ewed -it. Ms. Westermeien So you're saying that someone has signed off on all fourteen of-these on the list. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray:.Nobody-actually signs off on them. They've been approved Engineering ones are reviewed by the City Engineer. Legal ones are reviewed by the City Attorney. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray.,said these have all been reviewed by the appropriate department._,These invoices now come to the;CRC: as 'an agenda,item for approval. Mr. Koven: I don't see how we can pay these invoices whenwe havei$200,000 after we close on the Beyerage:property. We'll,.have nothing left.. We can't,do that. Mayor Brainard;1:talked to Le&Ol"ds at CSO and I told him to hold,off sending us any bills until AIMLI has closed and he.agreed.. Apparently his bookkeeping department,seni this out so we?arenj,topaythem: So we can hold both the,CSO?oncs. The CRC has in the bank today $896, 656. Closing on the Beverage property will cost S535,000.7he invoices listed!total 5190,987:23: Paying all of them "6111eave $705,669 15 in the bank. (This does not include -the $150,000 received,from the Build Indiana Fund. whichris in a separate account 'with. the Ciry:) Mr. Koven'made•a motion thafthe CRC pay all,invoices listed (l-14) with,the exception of 47, $95,;004 to CSO Architects. After a second by Ms. Westertneier'the motion.was uhanimously approved..Mr-Roesch.asked Mayor Brainard,to notify CSO. Ms. Boldt asked.if the Clerk-Treasurer had verified that the appraisal invoices had not been.paid'already. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray-responded that the invoices are.checked very carefully before ,she recommends paymsnt by the Trustee.; Continuing New Business Resolution 95-2000 for approval'ofthe Stayer contract authorizing the purchase of property on.Range Line Road when:fundsare available: Mr. Roesch noted that this;info,was included in..tiie packets sent out pri or to this rnecting; and there has been-some, discussion, about i t . He feels thi's is subject-to the bond issue; but he stared<the.City'Council as well as tfie CRC has to approve the bond'issue. Mr. Roesch: What we're?doirtg is laying ouf $5'000 in earnestmoneyto tic up;the property until the bond issue 'is-approved and issued and we have the money.,,So we Will be revisiting this when we,are approving the bond dssuc. Mr. Koven: What if we don't include this in the bond issue? WhatCf for some reason we don't want to approve: a$ 71,00 1 0,000.bondissue and we don'tdo:all these projects? It sounds to me that'ifwe.fl'oatabond we're stick paying this, Mr, Haas: The condition is not that.you,include this in,the bond, so no you7re really not stuck payirig;tt There are enough conditions here. For example, to determine the property is satisfactory,for your intended use and development, so if you determine forany reason the property's not satisfactory.;.. Mr. Koven: So we could actually issue the bond and everything else and tell them the property's notsatisfactory'atthat'point? Mr. Haas: In layman's terms, this,is::Whai,is known as a "free look". You-post,$5,000 earnest tnoneyand for the period of`the due diligence you geta==free look, Councilor Wilson: If we didn't do the bond issue and decide not to buy this, this guy could.get all over us,dfhe's turned down people on a lease, he's got some recourse against us„rigb ? Mr. Haas- No 16 Mr. Roesch asked.Mr. Haas; "So you're-prepared to defend that?" Mr. Haas: 11can'tpromise;you that;.you-won't get sued, that;there.won't?be a•claim Mr. Koven: What is the progress with the other. properties [by Stayer's property]? If we're going to do this, I'want to do them all. Discussion followed about the other properties. Some of the properties' owners, are asking substantially morethan.the.appraisals. Mayor Brainard noted that;if the City needsmore;ofEce space (for instance,. if Clay Township were, all;annexed) there would be the,possibility of,putting an ancillary building along Rangv1ine. Mr..Koven asked for assurances from Mayor.Brainard that thetrees on the properties would be.left standing. Mayor.Brainard will-talk'-with the.owner of the one.building which has not been discussed. 'He has had discussions with Mr. Rich, owner of the, fu_r_niture•store about-the possibility"of theACity leasing or purchasing part of his building. Discussion followed. Mr: Koven moved Resolutions#5=2000.be tabled until the. next,meeting:,Ms. Westermeier seconded the motion. Discussion followed. Mr. Roesch said he was inclined to go along with it, since there would life+a"way out; but, only with,the intent that we pursue the other properties. Discussion: followed: Voting "aye" on the motion to fable were Mr. Koven and Ms. Westermeier:- Ms. Boldt and Mr. Roesch.voted "nay". Further discussion_ followed at length about.the possibility of another bond.issue and the,tirning of such. Mr Haas; Ifyou4get to the end ofthe:day:and you hadn't4cancellcd the contract-and you were became obligated to close, all.that's at`risk is the $5;000'because it stands',as liquidated damages-So if it were time for closing and the Commission declined, the $5,000 would be:£orfeited. Stayer understands that and .as a seller you look.afhaw.tong the property.is tied up and what, you'll.get"if it;doesn't close. In this case there is 551,000 at risk. It's hard°to imagine that, a seller would keep his_property offthe,matket and not: lease it for a period of 6-8 months, knowing tkat;you might cancel and he'd get nothing or you might dcfaiilt•.and his only damages is the $1,000. Ivlr- Roesch: So where are we„going to be if we write-the other contracts like this, too? We're still going to be under pressure. 17 Clerk-Treasurer Cordray; The Council also has to approve,the,purchases and"the Council doesn3teven know°anythingabout them. Mr. Koven:wMy,problem is we had Joe Staehler out there. negoti ating to buy,a piece of property,and we weren'f even consulted.to know whether. we were ready to move"forward on it. And,now we need to do this: Mr. Koven expressed doubts that;Mr. Stayer, would find, someone' else who would pay, $500,000efor the, property. Discussion followed Ms. Westermeier made a motion to table the discussion° about Resolutions#512000 until the next meeting. Mi Roescif seconded the motion. Motion unariimously approved, Mr. Roeschasked .Mr-.,Haas,to. get;back with Mr: Stayer and modify the contract and ask- to see the leases.-4t will then be brought back to the next meeting: Other.New Business Ms. Boldt.asked about approval-of invoices?in'excess of$75;000.:It was confirmed that professional fees are exempt from the;resolution requiring' invoices over $75,000 to also be'approved by the City Council. Mr. Koven noted the.,CRCdid not, followthat procedure with.the,two`pieces of real estate downtown. •Onehas already closed and'the other is,subjecttb close; soon. Councilor;Luci Snyder has.objected to the purchase and'so it is onthe:agenda for the March 20'h meeting: [Itwas approved per Robin:Butler, 3/23] The Council doesn't understand what all is, going on. We'.re hearing'about everything after the fact. As a Councilpeiton I can say that that's the case and we'.re all,fed up with it. -It's going to have to stop. I did. not know (because I'm new to the Commission) that agreement existed, or I would have been=the Councilor who objected to it except it would look kind"of stupid forme to have approved, it here and'then objected to it over there; Ms. Bdldt.I;never questioned'before whether or"not an, item would, proceed on to. the Council's agenda. The steps these"things,take are not initiated by us and t didn't even think to question.it. Lassunred that it would take'the proper steps. Mr. Koven I think the bigger'issue.hcic :and we've already had this discussion with Jim, is that he entered iniwan agreement last August-with CS O Architects in the amount of 5283,000 for;engineering-work on the City Center project and then, a,S260,0Q0 contract in Decemberfor the design of the performing arts-center without,ever;asking: Discussion followed. Mr:.RocSch: Uoking.atthe cash flow statements going ahead if we have any deviations, it's necessary for us'to be.looking-at the inflow and outflow:and.the amounts. There's 18 only so much money in the'till and we're fesponsible for"that;rr oney. Were all going,to have to communicate,and take a better look atthese things. Mr. Koven: Pd like to see us take the exception'ofprofessional service`s out of that amendment-, so there are. no exceptions,in that agreement. Ms..Boldt: Well, I understand where you're coming from and I share`aconcem about costs thatare being spent-that we,may not be aware of but on,the other hand I do.know that AMLI is providing funds which will go into"the City Center project and we can only hope that_is just the?startof the ball rolling and"that the•office complex will follow, suit ;and it's.not-a hundred percent certainty, but at,some point.you've';got<to develop the plans and if it's ever.going to happen you've got.to start sometime. And the time.to start isn't after all of this is built.and say, -"Oh, I wish we'd-put-a performing arts center over there. Let's see if we can squeeze one in."' Mr. Koyeri: We'•de, not made a decision.to build a performing arts center-yet so therefore spending $260,000 to develop plans for it i"s inappropriate. Mayor Brainard:' That's not entirely accurate either,'John. The Plan Commission, the. Council and;the Redevelopment Commission?altvoted -on the mastef plan;.with that-in'it, knowing:,those'buildings were unfunded'.at-this:point. But theplan was approved byall three bodies. Councilor Wilson: But in all,fairtiess,the.pl'an was approved because it was presented that it was going'to be a private.developmeht with tl e.Citydoingmothing but providing the. infrastructure. and-the basics, , Now we're talking about the City building; the whole City Center. That's 'a major change in the philosophy. Mayor Brainard:,That,was,a change in the performing,artscenter and the arts museum building but.the:TIF district's'doing Well enough.'But'in terms of executing this,plan and coming up"with,the costs that we need,to proceed and be able tosmake thatproposal so the City can, afford to build it was necessary to do., We've done thz engineering and architecture all along, made contracts,to get:each phase ofthi's:up to the next phase. So this is a change;then, fine, if.you don'twant,,the. administrative staff to proceed and to check with the Redevelopment Commission each time-it moves on to the next phase; we can do that. But we've been,moving'along.for two and a half years with the administration of the City going ahead and modmg this along,.gettingthe engineering done. Nothing,wrong With bringing the contracts here, but that's justthe"way it's been done. It was accepted-and welve,paid lotsof invoices-for lots of big contracts'to get it along this far under the system. We didcome and check every time..The Commission knewthatwe were incutring;costs. We'll'be glad'to change it, That's not the issue. But Frna little disappointed,everyonCs real angry„especially about the engineering,of the Citv Center. Thatwas in the'works from day bne:and it's been going along andeveryone knew we were doing-engineering atrthe City Center. 19 Mr-.Koven:.I'm mad about the $260,000 not the $283',000. But I didr ?t know about the $253,000. Mr. Roesch: I think it's,a matter of communication. The communication has to happen or we are all,going,to be.frghting.amgng ourselves and the citizenry issgoing to look at that and say; "What are these people doing? They're messing; around with a whole bunch-of money and they're not'in agreement." I,think we all have to be very aboveboard,and go out of our :way to keep everybody informed so that everybody knows what's going on. And.if so I don'a think anybody's going to begrudge any money that has to'be spent up front to look at the feasibility of things. It's just not knowing and.being,•surprised_and thinking Aat things have.been done or that a department head orwhomever can spend money and we're expected`,to. rubberstamp it.`lf the department'head'says, "We're:going to have to do,this'and this and.it's getting up there'prcity high. I need-to1eep you informed about tl is. This is vrhat's happening"Send a memo- Mayor Brainard: 1-think the bettensystem might be to,have the Redevelopment Commission function like.the Board of Works and bring every new contract to the CRC for approval: Nothingigets done unless ever:yone-know,s. Mr. Koven: That's perfect. Mayor Brainard: I don,,t have a problem with that. That's just not-the-way we've been. operating for two year's: Mr. Roesch:, That keeps everybody above criticism. Mr. Koven: There's nobody here, Jim, thai's trying,to;stop this project, but hhave areal strong objection to spending $260,000 {I have an,objection to spending $40) on the design of a performing atts center that mayor may not, depending on what we,get:.back from a,survey and everything else; be squandered,money if we don't build this. Because those plans won't be good enodgh five years from now if they decide to build-it later.=I' don't know-how.much of this'moneyis-but of that one contract, but.;ifwe've spent $45;000 and :more-toward designing a building that'.we may not even build this is an absolute waste of taxpayermoney: Whether ibbe,COIT or not, it's still a waste of money. Ms. Westermeier: SometiinesyowhIave-to;hEfve'soinething to sh6w others. You're asking. other private developers to come in here and invest money, and I think -you have4lo show good faith-that you're moving forward. You have, a good point. This has come.up'later. From day onewe didn't-say, let"s.do a survey. And [think it's a,great idea: We're out trying to promote.this whole area and show-that we're willing to make an investment, too. Mr: Kovem ['think we'vetmade that..[ doriTthink that`s taking anything away'from it. That's not 'good prudent business. 20 Clerk-Treasurer Cordray: Would you Like, to-set this up so thathytSe hoxt-meeting all those plans come'into my office? I'll,do the same kind of agenda I do for the BPW. Mayor Brainard: We can "do that- There'might be:some transition things thafaredn the works. I'll have-to check:with-my peopte•on that. CT Cordray: I' llneed.a cutoff deadline a week before the meeting: Mr. Koven: The best.example of this that I canmake,outof it:..i'de been on this commission,not even a year and I'm juste trying,to Ifollow ,along with what's, going on and I'know I've kind of:been a bad boy attiffies, but 'l like to ask questions. But'last. W1, last September, there was absolutely no discussion:: with anybody in this room that we.Velre buying,two parcels of land downtown. Yet somebody in this building,, Doug,Haney included [and indicating Mr..Haas also], cvas `sitting here negotiating the lease on-our behalf last September and who was-the last to know? And itwas at a point when we were almost out of'moneyi So what did we do? Instead ofpaying ourhills we,ha&to.close,on _a building. Andtthe other.one's now beenput off:.. Mayor: Brainard' You didn'thaveto, John-. Theywere oli on,agreements, And•again I was trying to negotiate it quietly so the price didn't go through the roof. Mr..Koven: Well, it'is through the roof. It's, more money than I could have bolt lit it for. But we didn't know that was going.onthen you:eome to us with :a bill for las't.September ,and expect us to pay for something thatsomebcdy was clearly negotiating, supposedly on our behalf and didn't tell us. It's •noton my behalf if I don't authorize it,orI don't-know .it's going on. That's the problem. So were here with a minute cash,.balance situation, closing on real estate that wasn't evert, to our knowledge, part pfthe"picture until December...And [.don't think you'd have told. us thenzifI hadn't, asked the question about the lease. Mayor Brainard: I made the-presentation at the CRC:in October according to the minutes. Mr, l oven:'But we didn't,talk about money, We didn't-say, "Go ahead and.dbit The other membeis:of the Comm ssion,disputed this;statement; notingAlte CRC passed a -resolution of approval and Mr. Carter,made?a:motion.au horizing,to,proceed to try to get thecontracts in.place. Mr, Roesch: Buf in the. negotiating- stage we weren't aware. Mr: Koven:.It.was done. It was closed'. It was signed off on and we ended up signing-a lease on the,building.and ifwe'hadn't asked about it we wouldn't have been told. Mr. Roesch: That's thersort of thing we just_nee`d'to: communicate 21- Ms. Boldt: Is"the purchase that-we made which evidently, violates'&.agreement thatwe made with the City Council, is that on the,agenda for theext Council meeting? Clerk-Treasurer Cordray: The one you,closed on is not being addressed. [The one that hasn't heemclosed is.being "noticed"per,theMayor-'s request'several davs:ago.] It was noted that the Council: is not questioning;the_one which.has already been closed on since ltheredt no recourse. Mr. Boldi asked if anyone. (besides•the Council members who are also members of CRC) would need to be at'the.next Council meeting,to represent,the CRC if it's going to be discussed'. Mr. Roesch noted that the fact•thatta Council member;is-not approving it means, that it does go before the Council for discussion. Clerk-Treasurer Cordray; It is not on the agenda fonsomeone to;pomt fingers at. or to badmouth the project It's to get some information on the table so we as a body can make an intelligent decision. Ms. Boldt' I think when.the agreement was-orio' ally drafted, everything,usually'goes through unanimously. We d'on't have,any qualms about the City. Council reviewing, every dime we spend, Mr. Koven: We.weren't afforded that opportunity on the first'.purcl ase: I can tell you right now that had I.known that agreement existed that wouldn't have1appened. Ms. Boldt: But,my questiongoes`beyoiid,that. now. How do,we have, absolute certainty that if it comes,through, we approve it, what are we going to have to do, make a?motion each time to make it contingent upon the City Council's.,..:[Inaudible]!? How do I know, as a Commission member if I vote in approvabdf something imexcess of $751,000 that it will be put on the.agendasand approved?I tnrsted.that the-last-time. Discussion followed. Clerk-Treasurer'Cordray: When the Commission 'ales that decision, you'll direct the secretary of the Commission to forward'it to me, which I will put on the agenda for the City Council to review. That's already established. The"Commission notifies me (and PhylIis.will be doing thaton your behall). Mr. Koven: My-personal opinion is; it's allegal issue and, somebody [legal] should have made'sure the agreement was followed` through. But=there is:no penalty for it not happening,, according to the City Legal Counsel. Ms. Boldt: Whether there is a penalty associated with it or, not, we still'have a responsibilify to,act, He's, not speaking for the when he`says,that we can make an exception because there's no penalty. I don'.t care that there is no penalty. 22 Mr. Koven: That's not what he's:saying. He's saying we can't undo it. It can't be voided. It not voidable because it wasn't followed. If that agreement is ignored, it's just ignored. Mr. Roesch: The Council can see that we're trying to do the right thing. Councilor Wilson: I haven't missed a meeting since about a monih before I [was sworn in] and you guys work as hard as any group I've seen. You do a good job. Nexrmeetine will be April 12, 2000, 6 p.m. Adioumment Ms. Westermeier moved the meeting be adjourned. Following a second by Mr. Koven, the motion was unanimously approved and meeting adjourned at 10:20 p.m. 23