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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCRC-10-16-02CRC Meeting, October 16, 2002 1 CARMEL REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION Meeting Wednesday, October 16, 2002 President Rick Roesch called the meeting to order at 6:45 p.m. Commission members present were Luci, Snyder, John Koven, Ron Carter and Ed Burke constituting a quorum. Also present were Mayor Brainard, Councilor Wayne Wilson, Les Olds, Steve Engelking, Karl Haas, Lance Stahley, Gregory Gurnik and Joe Downs from Lauth Property Group, Bill Ensign from Veterans Memorial Corp. Phyllis Morrissey as support staff. Bill Ruthhart, Indianapolis Star, and Mike Hollibaugh arrived after the meeting began. Presentation Greg Gurnik from the Lauth Property Group presented a concept for the retail property for City Center. The costs are not yet known. Mr. Roesch met with them last week and asked them to come to a meeting to present the concept (Information was sent in the packets last week.). Mr. Gurnik said he was coming before the Commission to get the members’ thoughts and ideas. He asked Mr. Olds to explain the four variations of the concept but first he gave a quick overview of the process. Mr. Gurnik pointed out the concerns they had with the design: the need for parking to be closer to the retail, addressing the site lines, the proposed underground parking, the grade differential between the south and north end of the site, the importance of a main entry point, a design that was modular which could be phased easily. “These criteria along with what the Commission wanted which we tried to meld together.” Mr. Olds reminded the Commission of the rigid criteria from which the master plan would not waver: bring the buildings up on Range Line Road, Veterans Way would go all the way through and tie back to City Center Drive, maintain the vista looking all the way from Range Line Road to the reflecting pond and AMLI. “All of the plans we have prior to this did incorporate an underground garage and that was a stumbling block because of the cost. This was always an obstacle that was difficult to overcome.” Mr. Olds continued: Lauth property group came to us and said they’d like to look at something else (at their expense). Mr. Olds then presented the concept that eliminated the underground parking, brought the buildings up to the street, and gradually started to slope the site back towards Veterans Way. The difficulty is the difference of 13 feet in grade elevation at the northeast corner. The proposal was to place a plaza there with steps as a transitional element to get down to the lower space. Mr. Olds then explained the different elevations for the buildings with retail on the ground floor and an attic space above. Some of the buildings were two stories plus attic. Underground stormwater detention is still needed. Space for surface parking areas was increased. There was limited parking in front of some of the retail in pull out lanes. CRC Meeting, October 16, 2002 2 The four different concepts were shown which all still maintained the important elements. One concept for the west side of the parcel had two buildings with parking on the lower levels and housing on top, creating a taller structure. Each of these concepts requires a much smaller amount of fill. Each provides the density that was wanted with the mix between retail and housing. Mr. Gurnik said they had had conversations with several residential partners that have expressed a lot of interest, most specifically, AMLI. Discussion including questions and answers followed: grade elevations of the roads, CRC commitment to build Veterans Way and other streets, location of underground detention area, location of traffic signals, different phases of construction. Mayor Brainard suggested “Retail Drive” be one way, from east to west. Mr. Olds was asked to get cost estimates for roads. Mr. Koven said he had some questions. “I had a meeting with you and Paul Reis and asked about the potential for Clay Terrace taking away from City Center. My comment to you at that meeting was I was interested in seeing the City Center project go forward and I thought it needed to be important and you shared with me that that was the same position that Councilors Carter and Battreall had was that Clay Terrace was going to take away from this project but that you felt that Clay Terrace was a more viable project than this and you didn’t see this project coming into fruition any time in the future and quite honestly, if I remember right, you didn’t see yourselves as being a part of it. Help me put into correlation now how a discussion that was going to be a vote of two to four in front of the City Council with Clay Terrace not being approved which flipped and became a vote of four to two in front of the City Council and how that ties to this project coming forward and that’s a complete reversal of your company’s position of less than sixty days. How did that happen? Mr. Gurnik: I don’t think there is a correlation. I don’t think they are tied. Our work on Clay Terrace, our marketing efforts, our analyzation of the retail market has affected our view of the viability of this. We looked at this retail portion of City Center a year or more ago. We’ve looked at it two or three times. [Inaudible] And also the most recent design that Les showed you earlier, we would have had a hard time trying to market that space so what we’ve tried to do is “how can we make that work”. As we analyzed the market and the availability of retail dollars within the community, we became more and more interested. The tenants for the two areas would be different kinds. There are very few tenants that I think would be perfect for this space that I think would be perfect for Clay Terrace. Mr. Gurnik then talked about different types of tenants. CRC Meeting, October 16, 2002 3 Mr. Koven: You guys were adamantly opposed to anything going in City Center. Both of you pointed out the fact that the City Center was not viable. That’s been within sixty days. You came before this Commission three, four, five months ago to talk to us about it but had but had no plan at all. The discussions that were had at committee meetings with regard to how much retail space was too much. Both Ron Carter and Bob Battreall both were talking about how much retail space is too much in the community. Were we going to be over retailed, over built? I find it very interesting to find out that your company, while people were saying that that was going to be too much retail up here, now that is the same firm that is going to do this. Sixty days ago you told me that you didn’t see this as being even viable and to have that whole thing switched around… Mr. Gurnik: But as you were saying a few minutes ago, we were in front of this Commission saying we wanted to develop this. Mr. Koven: But you didn’t even have any plans at that point. But sixty days ago you told me one on one with your attorney present that you were not interested in it. I remember that clearly because of the role I have here and as a City Councilman, more interested in seeing this go forward that Clay Terrace. And quite honestly had I had this project in front of me I would not have voted for Clay Terrace because I think we are going to be overbuilt. All the numbers we were hearing, your own specialist, Karen Gentleman, basically said that. And now you’re coming back and wanting to add more retail space which we’ve always conceived as being this way. I’d like to know how we got to this point. Mr. Gurnik: Some of our interest in this is due to the data that Karen Gentleman has been developing as regards the retail dollars in the marketplace. Are you of the opinion that I came before you and told you this was never going to happen and therefore Clay Terrace was valid? That it wouldn’t have been valid if we’d known this was going to happen? Because I certainly don’t recall telling you that. I recall coming to a meeting with you and the discussion that I recall having about City Center was is there going to be a pilferage of tenants, is the viable in this going to be reduced by the fact that Clay Terrace would happen. Mr. Koven: That was Merchants square. You’ve got your issues confused. We were all concerned about having people leaving Merchants Square and coming to Clay Terrace. Mr. Gurnik: That was another issue, I believe. Mr. Koven: This wasn’t part of that. And the comments that were made about this was that you did not think this City Center project was viable. Mr. Gurnik: I’m sorry I do not recall saying that. I’ve never felt City Center was not viable. CRC Meeting, October 16, 2002 4 Mr. Carter: If I can just interject here since my name and Mr. Battreall’s have been brought into this. We both met with these folks on more than one occasion and never did they say to us that this was not viable. They never said it at all. Mr. Koven: You didn’t ask them. I asked them. I didn’t say it was part of the presentation. I asked them. Mr. Carter: And Karen Gentleman I don’t think ever said we were going to be over retailed. I was the one that was feeling we might be over retailed with especially the Kite project going in up in Westfield. In fact, every time I questioned the over retailing part of it, John, Karen Gentleman said, “No. We’re not going to be over retailed. In fact we’re far under retailed.” Whether I believe that or not is another story, but she never did say we’re going to be over retailed. Mr. Koven: But this project wasn’t in front of us either. She was dealing with Clay Terrace. Mr. Carter: The project was on the boards. It’s been on the boards now ever since we began this. She had to know that this was here. Just because it wasn’t put in place by these folks in front of her at that time, doesn’t mean it wasn’t considered in the retail calculations. Mr. Koven: Yeah, it does. It wasn’t considered in the retail conditions because it didn’t exist as far as the retail space available. If you go back and look at all the presentations that were made it never reflected any amount of square footage of retail space in City Center as part of those projections that were used for Clay Terrace. Mr. Gurnik: Do you think retail at City Center does not make sense? Mr. Koven: Oh, I think it makes sense completely. That’s not the question. I’m trying to ask you how you changed your opinion in sixty days. Mr. Gurnik: I don’t feel we did. Again, we looked at this over a year ago; we looked at it pretty seriously when we came before this Commission four-five months ago. Again, I don’t recall saying that at all. The discussion continued. [Mr. Koven was questioning Mr. Gurnik because he (Mr. Koven) felt like he had been misled in voting for Clay Terrace.] Mr. Roesch: I was concerned about the [tenant base]. You explained to me the types of tenants you are attracting. Maybe that will shed some light here. Mr. Gurnik: [In City Center} three areas, home deco, interior decorating design, art and art related uses, neighborhood retail uses, cleaners, restaurants, part of this mix, typically more local-related with the exception of the art related variety. CRC Meeting, October 16, 2002 5 Mr. Roesch asked if the direction of the amphitheater could be changed. Affirmative. Question was raised about dressing areas. Mr. Olds said he thought was that would be carried on in the performing arts or museum structures. Question was raised whether there would be a wall between amphitheater/residential & mixed use buildings. Mr. Olds said possibly there would be at least some type of separation to define the public area from the residential area The residential on top of the garages [west buildings] would be two story apartments, similar to ones in Lafayette or downtown on the canal. Building elevations were discussed: importance of sign bands, maintaining the architectural theme, details of buildings different, display windows and location of entrances of retail buildings Mr. Hollibaugh asked if there were still plans for a parking structure west of Shapiro’s. Mr. Olds: Probably not needed now. There would be retail and apartments instead. Ms. Snyder pointed out that area use potential also was changed because the ground was originally thought to be contaminated but is now useable. Mr. Hollibaugh asked if the only onstreet parking was the pull off additional lane for retailers who need that type of parking. Correct. It was confirmed there was regular parking proposed on Monon Green Drive, but none on Veterans Way. Plazas could be in place without the “towers” or vertical elements at this time. Mr. Roesch suggested civic sponsors might be found for the towers. In closing the presentation, Mr. Gurnik asked if the CRC was interested in seeing the proposal brought back with more specifics. General agreement to proceed. Mr. Roesch said the design concepts were the driving force and then the proposal would be firmed up with decisions made as to who pays for what and what the costs would be, how the phase in and infrastructure affect the cash flows. It was noted that the CRC would have a great deal of work to be done before a developer could start, including all the roads and the detention area. Mr. Haas said this suggests a different agreement with this developer wherein the penalty costs are higher if all the phases are not completed. Question was raised whether the area between Veterans Way and Monon Trail has already been included in the bid offering for Parcel #5. This will be checked. CRC Meeting, October 16, 2002 6 Approval of Minutes Mr.Carter moved for approval of the minutes of the September 24, 2002, meeting. Following a second by Mr. Burke, the motion was unanimously approved. Report from Mayor Mayor Brainard had nothing to report. Report from Director Cinergy Issues Mr. Engelking noted Ms. Weese distributed an email this afternoon about Cinergy burying the utility lines in Old Town. Cinergy will have cost estimates for the burial of utility lines on Veterans Way in the next sixty to ninety days. The lines will go under City Center Drive. Mr. Hollibaugh, reporting for Ms. Lawrence, noted her report was distributed with the packets. Parcel #9 Staff has received no exhibits for Parcel #9 yet from Chris Reid. Mr. Olds called him today to remind him we are waiting for them. Mr. Reid said his architect was working on them and we should have them at any time. All commitments have been agreed to. One curb cut will be needed off of Autumn Drive. Mr. Haas said it would close as soon as the exhibits were done and checked. Mr. Olds said he would keep “pressing”. Services Retail Proposal Discussion at length about the concept of the services retail [light industrial park] location, use, and importance of their availability to the community. Phase I of the proposal is 28 acres; Phase II is 15.5 acres. Mr. Olds has done this pro bono. Property owners and leasing agents will be contacted. Financial Report Ms. Mielke reported the September 30 balance was $320,729. The projected October 31 balance is $245,317. Mr. Haas said the probability of closing with Pedcor in November is 85% or greater and Kosene is 65% or greater. Approval of Invoices Mr. Engelking said there was an added invoice from Eden Enterprises bringing the total invoices to $284,451.72. He recommended the invoices be approved. So moved by Mr. Carter. Following a second by Mr. Burke, the motion was unanimously approved with four in favor. [Mr. Koven having left the meeting at 7:25 p.m.] Report from Attorney Mr. Haas reported Mr. Engelking sent a letter to Pizza King indicating that since their lease had expired they were now in a month to month tenancy. They will be asked to vacate the premises when Shapiro is ready to start construction of the next building. CRC Meeting, October 16, 2002 7 Pizza King owner has responded requesting a week to week lease. They are looking for somewhere to relocate. Brief discussion followed. Mr. Carter moved Pizza King be allowed to remain as a tenant on a week to week basis. Following a second by Mr. Burke, the motion was unanimously approved with four in favor. Report from Architect Reflecting Pond Mr. Olds reported the inspector went through the pond and the caulking was starting to pull away from the edges of the control joints at the bottom. Chemists were called in to determine why it was pulling away. Mr. Olds said they decided the joints were not properly cleaned and primed before the caulking was put in. They were told to remove it and replace it. It takes seven days for the caulking to cure before water can be put on top of it. This means the water will go in around the 24th. It will take seven days to fill the pool with 1.3 million gallons. They will try to reduce this time by hooking up to the hydrants. John Duffy, Utilities Director, has said there will be no charge for the first fill up. The painting is nearly complete on the pergolas. Mr. Olds said they are coordinating with AMLI to meet their needs on the landscaping in the area. He noted we are still holding $250,000 from Eden. Mr. Roesch asked if we would have a problem with the caulking in the future. Mr. Olds said that is why they are having it completely redone but this doesn’t mean that five years from now there might not be a problem. Training to operate and maintain the pond will be done at the end of the month. Mr. Engelking will follow up with those who will be handling the maintenance. Stormwater Detention Mr. Olds said they are ready to go out for bid on the stormwater detention system including a grassy area on top. An alternate will be included for walk areas on top of the grassy green space. Mayor Brainard reminded the Commission and Mr. Olds of the importance of not going out for bid until certain federal approvals are received because this is part of the grant money. This is imperative so as not to jeopardize the rest of the grant money (approximately $500,000). Appraisals Needed Mr. Haas asked for authorization to get an appraisal if needed on the rest of Parcel #5 (all the way to the Monon). Mr. Burke moved Mr. Roesch be authorized to order an appraisal if needed on Parcel #5. Following a second by Ms. Snyder, the motion was unanimously approved. CRC Meeting, October 16, 2002 8 Quotes to Remove Topsoil Mr. Olds received quotes from three contractors to remove the dirt from Parcel #1. It appears it is not all topsoil; most in the south pile is debris and dirt. The topsoil from the north pile will be placed on the City Center site east of Third Street at the south property line. The south pile will be picked up and hauled off to an appropriate dumpsite. Quantity estimates: north pile 4,000 cubic yards, south pile 6,000 cubic yards. Discussion followed. The low bid for the north pile was $16,000 from Oles Engineering Corporation. The low bid for the south pile was $30,000 from Forest Green, Inc. Ms. Weese recommended payment be based on weight tickets which might lower the cost since the amounts are estimated at this time. Mr. Olds said there was a possibility someone would take the topsoil for $1 a cubic yard but this might not be done soon enough. Mr. Burke moved up to $46,000 be approved to remove the dirt piles. Following a second by Mr. Carter, the motion was unanimously approved. Reports from CRC Members Mr. Burke reported he and Clerk Treasurer Cordray met with Jim Higgins and Mike Shaver about House Bill 1001 and how it would impact TIF. They are moving ahead with the analysis and will have a report ready by month end. Mr. Burke will be meeting with them again in a few days. Mr. Carter questioned the landscaping behind Shapiro’s, noting the difference in height of the shrubs installed by Shapiro’s and what was installed by the City’s landscaping company. Mr. Olds will check. Correspondence None to discuss Old Business None New Business None Next Meeting will be Wednesday, November 13, 2002, 5 p.m. Adjournment Mr. Burke moved the meeting be adjourned. Following a second by Ms. Snyder, the motion was unanimously approved and the meeting was adjourned at 7:55 p.m. Z:\redev comm\2002 Oct 16 minutes.doc