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December 11,2006
JAMES BRAINARD, MAYOR
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Mr. Bob Doster, P.E.
The Schneider Corporation
Historic Fort Harrison
890 I Otis A venue
Indianapolis, IN 46216-1037
RE: Carmel Science & Technology Park, BI~k 11, Lots 2/3/4/5-Project Review #1
Dear Mr. Doster:
We have reviewed the drawings submitted for this project for the October 18,2006 Technical Advisory
Committee meeting. We offer the following comments:
GENERAL INFORMA nON
Note: Plans for this site were previously reviewed for tbe Apri121, 2004 Technical Advisory
Committee meeting. Those development plans were withdrawn. Any approvals granted for tbe
previous 2004 developmentplaD are considered to be null and void.
I. The project site in the Carmel Science and Teclmology Park is currently located within current City of
Carmel Corporate Limits. The following jurisdictions wiU apply.
2. Jurisdictions:
. Street and Right of Way - City of Carmel (Carmel Drive/City Center Drive)
· Water-Project is within City of Carmel Water Utility service area.
· Sanitary Sewer-Project is within Clay Township Regional Waste District service area.
· Storm Sewer - City of Carmel. The Hamilton County Surveyor's Office has jurisdiction over
legal drains and discharge to legal drains (WR Fertig legal drain).
3. Board of Public Works andSafety Approval Requirements:
I) All approvals required prior to plan approval.
· Board approval of Water Availability is not applicable to this road project. Board approval will be
required for each individual lot as they are developed.
I) Board approval of Water Availability for irrigation systems.
· Board Commercial Curb Cut approval is not required since this will be a dedicated, platted street.
Q Temporary Construction entrance approval from the Board will be required if the location is at a
site other than the site of the permanent street location to and from Carmel Drive.
s Consent to Encroach Agreements for any permanent improvemeht to be installed within dedicated
right of way and/or dedicated easements.
. Open pavement cuts in dedicated streets require separate Board approval.
0:> Secondary Plat approval. All required Performance Guarantees must be posted prior to placement
of Secondary Plats on the BPWS agenda for approval.
I am enclosing a schedule (or Board of Public Works and Safety meeting dates and agenda deadlines
for your use. Please use the Engineering Department deadlines for ~ubmissions to the Board.
Any submission to the Board requires prior final approval by the Carmel Clay Plan Commission
and/or tbe Board of Zoning Appeals and completion of review by tbe Technical Advisory
Committee. All written requests to be place on the Board's agenda must include the appropriate
D~ket Numbers and the date (or dates) of approval by the Plan Commission and/or BZA.
4. TAC ReviewlDrawings submitted for approval:
We request that all comments and comment letters generated by this office be answered in writing and
be accompanied by a drawing reflecting requested revisions. Final drawings will not be approved for
DEPARTM~NT OF ENGINEEIUNG
ONE CIVIC SQUARE, CARNIEL, IN 46032 OFFICE 317.571.2441 FAX 317.571.2439
ElI1AIL engineering@carmel.in.gov
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construction until all issues have been resolved. The design engineer must certify all drawings
submitted for final approval. This office will require a minimum of four-sets of approved drawings
after all issues have been resolved and the construction drawings have been approved. The drawings
will be stamped approved and signed by the City Engineer. The Developer/Owner will receive one-set
which is to be maintained on the construction site at all times. Carmel Utilities will receive one-set,
our Construction Manager will receive one-set and one-set will be maintained in the Department of
Engineering. If more than the minimum four-sets are requested to be approved, the additional sets
(maximum total of two, additional) must be submitted with the four required sets.
5. Please be advised that any installation of signs, walls, irrigation systems, etc. within dedicated right of
way and/or dedicated easements will require a Consent to Encroach Agreement between the
OwnerlDeveloper and the City of Carmel. This Agreement requires Board of Public Works and Safety
approval.
6. Please assure that Carmel Utilities have been provided drawings for review of water systems and
issues. Please provide ,the drawings to:
Paul Pace
City of Carmel Water Utility
130 ]51 Avenue SW
Carmel, IN 46032
7. Cannel Utilities subscribes to "Holey Moley" who should be contacted for water main locations.
8. I am including copies of the following with this correspondence:
o Current Water Connection and Availability Fees
o Commercial Project Approval Procedures.
It Performance Release Procedure.
It Permit Data, Contacts, etc.
o Commercial Permitting Procedures.
BONDING REQUIREMENTS
9. Upon initial review, i~ appears the following bonding requirements may apply to this project. All
bonds and performance guarantees shall be provided prior to plan approval.
Performance Guarantees
It Streets
o Curbs
It Water Mains
It Storm Sewers
" Monuments & Markers
o Street Signs
. Sidewa]ks/ Asphalt Paths
o Erosion Control (see below)
Please provide detailed/itemized Certified Engineers Estimates in the amount of 100% of the cost of
labor and materials for the requested improvements. Provide individual Performance Guarantees in the
amount of the Engineer's Estimates. When the improvements have been constructed and accepted and
the Performance Guarantees are released by our Board of Public Works and Safety, 3-Year
Maintenance Guarantees will be required in the amount of ]5% of the Performance amount for Streets
& Curbs and 10% of the Performance amount for all other improvements. Please contact Amanda
Foley, City of Carmel Storm Water Administrator, regarding bonding requirements for Erosion
Control
StreetCutIRigbt of Way Permit BDd Bonding Requirements
Any work in the dedicated right of way of Cannel Drive or City Center Drive will require a Right of
Way Permit. If the work is included in the scope of work of a required Perrormance Guarantee, a
separate License and Permit Bond will not be required. If the work is not included in a Performance
Guarantee, a License & Permit Bond will be required. The bond amount will be determined by the
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number of instances of work in the.right of way @ $2,000.00 per instance. Open pavement cuts in
dedicated streets reauire approval bv our Board of Public Works and Safetv. Please contact Fred
Glaser, Department of Engineering Right of Way InspectorlManager for details regarding this issue.
10. We have engaged Crossroad Engineers, PC to review all drainage plans and drainage calculations
submitted to this office for review. We will share Crossroad's comments as they are received. Please
assure that copies of all drawings and drainage calculations are forwarded to Crossroad.
AVAILABILITY AND CONNECTION FEES
I I. Water Availability (acreage) Fees are normally required to be paid after Engineering Department
approval of the project and prior to approval of the start of construction. Please provide a legal
description of the area of construction indicated on these construction plans. Otherwise, the
Availability Fees will have to be paid for the platted acreage of7.988 acres. The current Water
Availability Fee is $1,010.00 per acre.
Water Connection Fees are not applicable for this phase of the road construction portion of Block 11.
They will be assessed as each of Lots 2,3,4 and 5 are developed. Current Water Connection Fees are
$1,310.00 per EDU. EDUs are calculated based upon the proposed building usage planned for each
individual lot.
If an irrigation system is planned for this development or any individual lot, additional BPWS
Water Availability approval will be required and additional Water Connection Fees will be
assessed based upon the recommendations orthe Director of Carmel Utilities.
PROJECT COMMENTS-CONSTRUCTION PLANS
12. Generalltems
10 The City acknowledges that the existing detention system was master planned for the runoff from
this site. Please confInnany restricted release rates with the County.
e Please contact Amandapoley to review storm water quality requirements and permitting.
10 The Department requires that the construction drawings be developed in accordance with the City
of Carmel digital submission standards and that all required submittals for primary plat, secondary
plat, and construction drawings be made. The digital files must be submitted to the Department of
Engineering prior to approval of the construction plans.
. Please indicate and label the existing and proposed right-of-way for 122nd Street, Carmel Drive,
and Guilford Road on all sheets.
. Any off-site easements .necessary for installation of utilities must be secured prior to the
Department of Engineering approving the drawings.
. ADA ramps are required at all locations where the sidewalks or asphalt paths cross the streets.
. Please delineate any curb cuts on the plan for sawcut, removal, and replacement.
. Please provide a maintenance of traffic plan.
t! Please indicate who bas title to the land encumbered by the existing pond that is not being platted
by this development. Is the pond in an easement? Is it possible to dedicate the thoroughfare plan
right-of-way for Cannel Drive and Guilford or is this property not controlled by the petitioner?
G Please indicate any existing legal drain easements on all sheets.
G The City requests that all improvements within the existing and proposed right-of-way of City
Center Drive, Carmel Drive, Guilford Road and tbe interior public street be constructed by the
current developer and not deferred to the subsequent builder(s).
" The Thoroughfare Plan stipulates that the developer is responsible to construct half of the
improvements prescribed by the Thoroughfare Plan for the City Center Drive, Carmel Drive, and
Guilford Road frontage. Typically, developers corrunit monies equal to the value of these
improvements to be paid by the developer into the City's fion-reverting Thoroughfare Plan fund.
The fact that these roads were recently improved does not relieve the Developer from this
requirement.
. All utility poles must be within one foot of the right-of-way line. Ifit will be necessary to relocate
existing utility poles, the expense of such relocation shall be borne by the Developer.
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· The City is waiving the standard request to widen, mill, and resurface the perimeter streets.
13. ClOO - Title Sheet
· Plans that contain the disclaimer above the certification stamp will not be approved. While this
statement may apply to the contractor and his subs, this would not apply to the City of Carmel and
we therefore require that you remove it from the plans.
14. ClOl - Development Plan
III Please indicate all as built road improvement plans for City Center Drive (formerly 12200 Street)
and the Carmel Drive approach to City Center Drive on this and all applicable Sheets. Contact:
W oolpert LLP
7140 Waldemar Drive
Indianapolis, IN 46268-4192
(317) 299-7500
The Project Number is STP-9929.
· The City requests that the sidewalks on Carmel Drive Court be bonded and constructed with the
street project.
· Please change 122nd Street to City Center Drive on this and all applicable sheets.
· Please label any portion of the west right of way line of Guilford Road appearing on this or any
sheet as such. The right-of-way is indicated on this sheet but not others.
· Since the City Center Drive road project is basically complete, there is no need for the note to
coordinate this project with the City's road project. This is applicable to aU sheets where this note
is located.
III The legal description acreage on Sheet C I 0 I (8.0 A) does not correspond to the platted acreage
(7.988A).
· Provide bollards or other means of protection along the existing lake frontage. The installation
shall not be within dedicated right of way.
. Please extend the sidewalk eastward along Carmel Drive to the intersection of Carmel Drive and
Guilford Road and to the west ifnot installed as a part of the recent road project. An asphalt path
is required along the entire Carmel Drive and Guilford Road frontages per the Alternative
Transportation Plan. An asphalt path is required along the 122nd Street frontage if not in the road
project. If asphalt path is required, plans shall include the removal of all existing sidewalk.
· A cul-de-sac with the single street name, Carmel Drive Court, is indicated. The turn has been
shown as a two-way stop. There are only two intersecting approaches so there are no traffic
conflicts from opposing approaches. Therefore, a two-way stop is not necessary or warranted.
Please revise the two-way stop to a curve with a radius a minimum of 150 feet or an urban
roundabout.
. The City would prefer to see a plan that does not introduce a new curb cut onto 122nd Street, but
rather would use the existing curb cut on the south side of 122nd Street between Carmel Drive and
Congressional through shared access with the REI building.
III The department wiUsupport the curb cut onto Carmel Drive as long as it is designed to
accommodate the I22nd Street and Carmel Drive intersection improvement plans. The
Department requests a right turn lane and an acceleration taper at this entrance. Full access will
be allowed at the Carmel Drive entrance with the understanding that future Carmel Drive
improvements may make this a right-inJright-out only in the future.
II Is a future access to Guilford Road anticipated? The City would prefer a Guilford access if the
developer can get around all of the physical site constraints (specifically the pond, the regulated
drain, and the regulated drain crossing under Guilford). The City would want to review the
location and angle of the access to support full access and to ensure the possibility of a
complimentary drive on the east side as that may develop.
III The pond needs to be sized today to accommodate future potential filling as Guilford Road is
improved and widened. Pond also needs to be sized such that volume is provided for detention of
the fully developed right-of-way of Guilford Road and Carmel Drive.
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. Any new pavement placed in the Carmel Drive right-of~way for the entrance up to the mainline
right-of-way limit shall meet the following section: 1.5 inches HMA #11 surface on 2 inches
HMA #8 binder on 3 inches HMA #5D base on 7 inches #53 stone on 4 inches #2 stone or match
existing, whichever is greater.
. ClO I Please delete Site Note to unless it is more stringent than the details.
It Please indicate the back edge of curb for the proposed street.
It Please revise Utility Note No.3 to be more specific than "granular" material for installations
within the City right-of-way or for storm sewers that are underpavernent but will still be
maintained by the City. Such language shall meet City standards for such installations.
o There is apparently fill proposed within the limits of the existing pond. Please confrrm that there is
no net loss of the existing detention pond volume.
" Main line storm runs are not typically allowed to be installed under the curb as indicated. Please
indicate the construction of a trunk line outside of the back edge of curb into which the street inlets
will discharge.
o Please confirm that Structure 601 is the BMP?
. What grading is being performed to assure interim positive lot drainage and to direct the runoff to
the post.construction BMP?
I) Please be aware of the City policy to not allow any earth disturbing activity until a storm water
management permit is issued. Such permit will not be issued until the construction plans are
approved. Please add a note to this effect to the plans.
. Please indicate dedication of additional right-of-way across all frontages if the existing right-of-
way is less than the half right-of-way width prescribed by the 20-year Thoroughfare Plan.
15. C20 I-Street Plan and Profile
e What is the back of curb to back of curb width of the Carmel Drive Court cul-de-sac? Indicate on
the plans. Also indicate the proposed right of way for Carmel Drive Court.
16. C30 I - Intersection and Cul-de-sac Details
It Please show the match line for the two separate drawings on this sheet.
t 7. C60 t -Storm Sewer Plan and Profile
It Sheets C401 and C601. The "granular" reference in the legend needs to specifically reference City
standards for installations within City right-of-way and for storm sewers under pavement but to be
main~ined by the City.
18. C701 - Water Distribution Plan
. This sheet is not included in the construction plans submitted for review. However, they were
included previously. We believe that the water utility would request a separate Water Distribution
plan be included in plans submitted for review and approval.
. The water service installation indicated shall be bored under Carmel Drive. Please revise on tbe
Development Plan as well.
19. Detail Sheets
. Please revise Note 7 for details 6, 7 and 8 on Sheet C803 to require I-inch ribbing in lieu of the
truncated domes.
. Please replace detail 2/ C803 with the current detail from the website.
Q Detail I/C803. Please. indicate the SSD in the location per detail 7/C805. Also, please revise the
pavement section to require the following: 1.5 inches HMA #1 I surface on 2 inches HMA #8
binder on 3 inches HMA #50 base on 7 inches #53 stone
. Detail 4/C803. Please revise the transverse expansion joint maximum spacing to be 50-feet and the
transverse contraction joint maximum spacing to be to.feet.
20. Specifications
. "Streets" Specification on Sheet C902. Please revise as necessary to conform to the City paving
and curbing standards for all curb and for all right-of-way paving. Delete entire section if
possible.
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· "Storm Sewers" Specification Sheet C901. Please revise as needed to conform to City's
Stormwater Technical Standards.
· Water and Sewer Specifications-please ensure final backfill for laterals and mains within rigllt-of-
way meets Department of Engineering backfill standards.
PROJECT COMMENTS-SECONDARY PLAT.
I. Does this plat reflectthe existing right of way requirements for City Center Drive and Carmel
Drive per the City Center Drive road improvement project?
2. We believe that concrete monuments will be required at all perimeter boundaries. We will defer
to the Department of Community Services.
These comments represent the Department of Engineering's initial review of the revised construction plans
for this development. We request that all responses to our comments be provided in writing. Failure to
provide written responses may result in the delay of the review process.
It is critical that our office be made aware of all modifications made on the plans being re-submitted,
particularly if any such changes are considered "new" or fall outside of our previous reviews. Please
provide revised plans including all revisions. Please notify us of any changes and specifically state any
changes, including changes resulting from Plan Commission, BZA or other committee meetings.
All bonds and performanceguaraotees must be posted prior to Engineering Department approval of
construction plans. Also, Board of Public Works and Safety approvals and any other governing agency
approvals (if required) must be obtained prior to Engineering Department approval.
The Department reserves the right to provide additional comments based upon subsequent reviews.
If you have questions, please contact me at 571-2441.
Enclosures
cc:
Matt Griffin, Department of Community Services
John DuffylPaul Pace, Carmel Utilities
Greg Hoyes, Hamilton County Surveyor's Office
Greg IIko, Crossroad Engineers
Jeremy Stephenson, REI Investments
Engineering File Copy
Engineering Department Review
S:\DHILL \PROJREV06\BLOCKl ] CS&TP(2006)
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October 20, 2006
Mr. Bob Doster
The Schncider Corporation
8901 Otis Avenue
Indianapolis, IN 46216-1037
RE: Carmel Science and Technology Park, Block 11
Dear Mr. Doster:
The [0110 wing letter represents comments from the Engineering Department for this project specifically
addressing the areas of storm water quality, We have reviewed the construction drawings submitted for
this project for the October 18,2006 Technical Advisory Committee meeting and offer the following
C0ll1111ents:
BONDING REQUIREMENTS
I. The following bonding requirements apply to this project:
Performance Guarantees
An Erosion and Sediment' Control Performancc Guarantee is needed for this project.
STORMW A TER OUALITY REVIEW COMMENTS-CONSTRUCTION PLANS
The following items onhe storm water pollution prevention plan have not been satisficd:
B2. Sequence describing storm water quality measure implementation relative to land disturbing
activities
Make the sequence specific to this project. There arc several items listed that do not pertain to this
project.
Due to the proximity of this project to the pond, steps need to be identified that will be taken in order
to protect the pond,
B4. Sediment control measures for sheet flow al'cas
Silt fence is not necessary around the entire site.
B6. Sediment control measures for storm sewer inlet protection
Three separate inlet protection methods are identified 011 e8Dl, none of which seem appropriate for
this project. If inlet protection is going to be used 011 this project, identify which practice will be
used.
B8. Stormwater outlet-protection
An outlet detail is not sho,wn on C80l or C802.
B14. Monitoring and ma,intenance guidelines for each proposed stormwater quality measure
Only include those practices specific to this project.
Carmd Drive should be monitored frequently throughout tbe day to ensure mud or sediment is not
being tracked off of the project.
C2. Sequence describing stormwater quality measure implementation
Please review Chapter 700 of the City of Carmel Stormwater Technical Standards Manual to ensure
the pond identified to treat the stormwater from this site meets the requirements for a water quality
pond.
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The City of Carmel requires that all stormwater leaving a site (post construction) be treated by a
minimum of two different water quality BMPs. A second BMP (in addition to the pond) is
required for this project. Taking into account the future building construction, a master plan to
serve the entire development is recommended to be considered for the second BMP. Possible
solutions include constructing a second BMP on each lot in the future (when each lot is
developed), such as a permeable pavement parking lot or an infiltration trench in the parking lot
islands. If this is the ronte that will be taken, the second BMP wiII still need to be identified prior
to approval of the current plans, and a signed agreement will need to be submitted.
C3. Description of proposed post construction storrmvater quality measures
C4. Location dimensions, specifications, and construction details of each sto,"mwatcr quality
measure
C5. Description of maintenance guidelines for post construction storIn water quality measures
We request that all responses to ourcOJ'nments be provided in writing. Failure to provide written responses
may result in delay of the review process.
It is critical that this office be made aware of all modification made on the plans being re-submitted,
particularly if any such changes are considered "new" or fall outside of our previous reviews. Please
provide revised plans indicating all revisions. Please notify us of any changes and specifically state any
changes, including changes resulting from Plan Commission, Special Studies or other committee meetings.
All bonds and performance guarantees (if required) must be posted prior to Engineering Department
approval. Also, Board of Public Works and Safety approval and any other governing agency approvals (if
required) must be obtained prior to Engineering Department approval.
The Department of Engineering reserves the right to provide additional conmlents based on subsequent
reViews.
If you have questions, please contact the Engineering Department at 571-2441.
Sincerely,
Amanda Foley
Storm Water Administrator
Department of Engineering
cc: Matt Griffin
Project File
10/11/2006 13:51
317775%28
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HAMILTON CO SURVEYOR
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PAGE 01/02
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October 10, 2006
The Schneider Corporation
ATTN: Bob Doster
890 1 Otis Avenue
Indianapolis, IN 46216-1037
VIA F ACSIl\flLE: 826-7200
Re: Carmel Science & Technology r2lltk - Block 11
Dear Mr. Doster:
We have reviewed the construction plans submitted to the E:ami:lton County Surveyor~s
Office on October 2, 2006 for this project and have the following comments:
1. This proposed project falls within the incorporated area and MS4 jurisdiction of
the City of Carmel.
2. This proposed project DOES NOT fall within a Carmel Wellhead Protection
Zone.
3. Thi$ proposed project fall in the W.R. Fretig Regulated Drain Watershed. This
watershed has an allowable release rate of 0,24 cfs per acre.
4. Please submit the following pTO<;edural items to thi.s office, outlet permit, crossing
permit (2 crossing -Carmel Drive Entrance and water main), and subdivision non-
enforcerrl.ent agreement. The appljcations are available on our website at
http://www.co.ham\lton.in.us. go to Departments, Surveyor, and Forms.
5. The detention for this site is provided for in the W.R. Fenig Regional Detention
pond on this site.
6. The curbUne SSDs and watcr main could conflict with the 42" Rep Regulated
Drain. Please verify the in-field pipe elevations and verify the design to avoid
conflicts. HCSO will require 18" clearance between the pipe and the water main
(HCSO Standard Detail C-5).
10/11/2006 13:51
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HAMILTON CO SURVEYOR
PAGE 02/02
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7. The HCSO 'Would strongly suggest bollards. guardrail, or some type ofbamer
along the entrance on Carmel Drive so cars cannot accidentally end up in the
detention pond. The chair back curbs should be sufficient in. most places but
additional safeguards are needed were cars are changing direction or the top of
bank begin right at the back of ROW.
8. Please provide a copy ofthe landscape plan for review by Hamilton County
Surveyors om ceo
9. Please note that further comments may be necessary at a later date.
Should you have any questions, I can be re3<1hed at 317-776&8495.
Sincere] y,
a~
Plan Reviewer
cc: Matt Griffin - Cannel DOCD
Aman.da Foley - Carmel Engineering
Dick Hill- Cannel Engineering
Greg I1ko - Crossroads Enginl;lenng
Joel Thurman - RCND
Jeremy Stephenson - REI Investments - 573-6055
Carmel. Clay S{;hooh 'C-\C ComlllCl~U7.06
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11'~O}l m. Docket No. 06100006 TAC: Carmel Science and Tech Park - Block 11
Construction Plans
The applicant seeks to construct site infrastmcture.
The site is located at the SE corner of 122ml Street and Carmel Drive and is zoned
M3.
Filed by Robert Doster of Schneider Engineering for REI Real Estate.
CCS: No comment.
11 :45 a.m. Docket No. 06100007- SP: Stafford Lane Subdivision Secondary Plat
The applicant seeks approval to plat 50 lots on 29.04 acres.
The site is located at 4235 East 1461h Street and is zoned S I.
Filed by Eric Batt of Schneider Engineering, Inc. for The Drees Company.
CCS: No comment.
12.00 pm Docket No. 06100008 TAC: Methodist Medical Plaza Parking Expansion
The applicant seeks to expand parking lot into previously approved banked
parking area.
The site is located at 201 Pennsylvania Parkway and is zoned B5.
Fi led by Bill Butz of American Consulting for HePT Indiana LLC.
CCS: No comment.
12:15 p.m. Docket No. 06100009 TAC: Police Maintenance Department Expansion
The applicant seeks to construct the Carmel Police Maintenance Department
adcUtion at the existing Carmel Street Department Maintenance facility.
The site is located at 3562 West 131 sl Street and is zoned S 1.
Filed by Karen Collins of Cripe Engineering for the Carmel Police Department
CCS: No comment.
12:~f) p.m. Docket No. 06080004 Z and 06080005 ADLS: Global Financial Consultants
The applicant seeks rezoning construction approval for a proposed office building
and related parking. The site is currently zoned S 1, with a request to rezone to the
B2 classification.
The site is located at 3745 West 98lh Street.
Filed by Robert Clutter of Clark Quinn Moses Scott and Grahn, LLP I~)r Global
Financial Consultants.
CCS: No comment.
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October 4, 2006
Bob Doster
The Schneider Corporation
8901 Otis Avenue
Indianapolis, IN 46216-1037
RE: Block 11 - Carmel Science & Tech Park
Job No.: 1211.031
Dear Mr. Doster:
The information for the above-referenced project has been reviewed.
At the present time, I see nothing in the plans that would hamper law enforce-
ment efforts.
If we can be of any further assistance to you, please contact us.
Respectfully,
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Michael D. Fogarty
Chief of Police
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cc: Dept. of Community Services
CH7J&71-2600
A Nationally Accredit
'forcement Agency
IfL""l31?1 571-251:2