HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 09-17-031
CARMEL CLAY
TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
MINUTES
September 17, 2003
REPRESENTING THE CITY OF CARMEL:
Bill Akers, Carmel Clay
Communications
Chuck Shupperd, Vectren Energy
Ron Booher, Cinergy John South, Hamilton County Soil &
Water
Scott Brewer, DOCS Urban Forester
Steve Broermann, Hamilton County
Hwy
Angie Butler, Dept. of Community
Services
John Dobosiewicz, DOCS
Dick Hill, City Engineering
Greg Hoyes, Hamilton County
Surveyor’s
Gary Hoyt, Carmel Fire Department
Mike McBride, City Engineering Attachments: Andy Kern
Sharon Prater, Panhandle Eastern
Pipeline
Via e-mail: Andy Kern, Clay Township Regional Waste District
Page 2. Towne Pointe (Secondary plat and Construction Plans)
Page 5. Cass Estates (Primary Plat)
Page 8. West Carmel Center, Block C (Secondary Plat) and
West Carmel Center, Block C, Bank One
(Development Plan)
Page 14. Weston Pointe (Primary Plat)
Page 18. Heather Knoll (Primary Plat)
.
Page 21. Cherry Creek Estates, Section 2
(Secondary Plat and Construction Plans)
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Page 23. Hearthview Residential PUD
(Rezone – Revised Development Plan)
Page 27. Lockerbie PUD (Secondary Plat and Construction Plans)
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Towne Pointe (Secondary plat and Construction Plans)
Filed by the Elliot Wright Group, LLC.
Representing the Petitioners:
Chuck Wright, ELLIOT WRIGHT GROUP LLC
Terry Puillman, PUILLMAN INC
Comes now Towne Pointe Secondary plat and Construction Plans, Primary Plat approved
by the Plan Commission early this year.
My name is Chuck Wright with the ELLIOTT WRIGHT GROUP the developer also I am
the principal engineer for BCA GROUP design. With me today is Terry Puillman of BCA
GROUP. The applicant seeks approval of a secondary plat. The site is located on the
northeast corner of West 131st Street and Towne Road. The site is zoned S-1/Residence
– Estate. We are looking at four (4) different parcels, thirty (30) acres at the corner of
131st street and Towne Point. Our entranced is off of Towne Point. Twenty-eight (28) lots
each at a minimum of a ½ acre. We are looking at seventeen (17) acres of homes sites
with the rest being right-of-way or common area. We are currently refining the drawings.
LISTON: I looked at this yesterday. This is a proposed regulated drain. We did
receive the variance letter for the under drain and detention. This being a
dry detention area that will cancel the waiver for the under drain but we
will talk and see. I saw in your drainage summary you propose a play
area/football field in the detention area. I do not believe Mr. Ward will
support it.
(TRANSMISSION FAILURE…)
WRIGHT: We wanted to show that it is large enough for an activity like that.
DOBOSIEWICZ: They wanted to show the Plan Commission here is the area the size
of a football field.
LISTON: I got to thirty-two (32) items and stopped. The under drain is under the
street that laterals off each lot. Swales and perimeter swales nee to be at
one percent (1%) or above. Spot elevation in the streets. Street widths,
right-of-way. Southern end where the road is going in is Patton Soil. We
have had problems with sinking roads in Patton Soils. I will get you a
formal letter.
SHUPPERD: We will just extend our facility from 131st street to the entrance.
BOOHER: I need you to place a phone call to me to cover the details, service request,
auto cad file, and a call to Tom Ordway, in Vegetation Management. There
are transmission poles on the north side and west side of Towne Road you
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may need a passing blister there once we get the plans we can let you
know if you need to relocate.
BROERMANN: (Passed out letter.) My plat has some pages missing or you did not
include storm planning profiles or a landscape plan. I did notice the Patton
Soil. We would not say you cannot build there but we will need further
exploration to remedy that site. We also suggest that you not plant
anything large in the median because Towne Road may get widened. I
suggest you make you all your changes, get the revised to us and we can
sit down and review everything. The right-of-way…interrupted.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is that measured from the centerline?
BROERMANN: We think shifting the entrance to the north will make it fifty (50)
feet shy.
WRIGHT: The entrance of Lake View could not be acquired for the right-of-
way and to shift if over to your side would work out better for the
tapers and lane transitions.
PUILLMAN: We will look into the improvements.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We are not talking about that.
WRIGHT: Shift east?
BROERMANN: Acquire the right-of-way on the north but with the volume of
traffic…interrupted.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Will your facilities be in the way when we make the improvements
to Towne Road?
SHUPPERD: Seek to acquire an easement. We may put in a small diamond.
WRIGHT: Come up to 131st Street?
SHUPPERD: That is an option.
DOBOSIEWICZ: A combo for the purpose of the decell lane you are paying half the
value of the easement.
SHUPPERD: Water and sewer is coming from a different area?
WRIGHT: They are both coming from (inaudible).
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BREWER: I need a set of plans with landscaping. Do those plans show the
changes?
WRIGHT: No.
BREWER: Can you send me the updated plans?
SOUTH: (Fax sent) On the construction sequence it started good you need to carry
on with the rest of the project. The storm water exiting west and south silt
fence is not appropriate. Fill that area first. Trap the water behind instead
of outward to Towne Road start at Towne and trap it there.
PUILLMAN: I will look at the sequencing of the fill areas.
SOUTH: If you get the storm in that will accomplish the same thing. Provide calcs
on the east side to show size and recognize the sump does not flow. More
details on the riprap levee. The way the dry basin is constructed maybe the
municipalities need to look at it. Are you directly piping it off site? They
may have to retrofit the storm water design. No regs on the books now.
HOYT: Is this a gated project or will there be an amenity building?
WRIGHT: No to both.
HOYT: What is the street width?
WRIGHT: Thirty (30) back to back.
BUTLER: I sent you a letter with comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: In addition to the letter I noted the standard for sidewalks is five
(5) feet instead of four (4). Some of the pathway crosswalks do not align
and they should meet at all four corners. In regard to the discussion of the
Secondary Plat to improve the swale, stone shoulder, the improvements to
pulling in the passing blister and the decision on the direction we want to
go we need to sit down to make it right. My suggestion is to carry the
improvements to the north lot of Towne Road. The Ordinance requires a
twelve (12) feet lane and the stone shoulder and swale. Install or commit
to those installations. I also want more discussion with the highway if it is
not remonstrated against by the two owners of the two parcels. If we cut
in a swale I don’t want to create a pond.
LISTON: To take the water from the north side to the west side…(inaudible).
DOBOSIEWICZ: You are picking that up and is that the issue?
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LISTON: You have to sink those under drains and that is also the lot with the Patton.
WRIGHT: We will put in sewers to alleviate that.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Revise the secondary plat as soon as you can.
WRIGHT: The entrance is okay?
DOBOSIEWICZ: The passing blister needs a longer decell lane.
KERN: The District has received the revised plans for this project. These plans
have been reviewed and forwarded to IDEM for permit approval.
…END…
Cass Estates (Primary Plat)
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of STOEPPELWERTH & ASSOCIATES
Representing the Petitioners:
Dennis Olmstead; STOEPPLEWERTH
Comes now Cass Estates Primary Plat to go before the Plan Commission October hearing
date. Recently filed one Subdivision Waiver Request. The applicant seeks to plat a 48-lot
subdivision.
The site is located southwest 116th Street & Shelborne Road. The site is zoned S-
1/Residential- Low Density. This will line up with the entry of Long Branch Estates. This
started as twenty-nine 29 acres and then acquired the property to the east. The developer
we are working with wanted to keep the house and outbuildings and are using that as a
conservation lot. We are going to pick up the sewer that is at is out at 116th Street that was
put in for Long Branch Estates and extend that into our property. We will connect the
street stud to Westin Ridge and carry south. We are providing a street stud to the west at
the request of J. Dobosiewicz for future extension to head south and tie back out to
US421.
LISTON: I need the latest revisions. This will be a regulated drain subdivision.
Looking here the easements need to bump up to fifteen (15) per half.
Landscape maintenance easement paralleling a drainage easement we
always have problems with the landscape encroaching into the drainage
easement (needs work). Need to show existing drainage facilities on the
construction plans for the Westin Ridge area. We have something
paralleling the southern end of this proposed development. In the future
we will need utility crossing when you come to the proposed sanitary on
the north side 116th street you will be crossing the outfall pipe for Long
Branch. I am also going to make you aware of the Terry property west of
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Long Branch their existing pond got hammered with the development of
Long Branch. The attorney’s are still talking regarding the sediment load
that came onto the Terry Pond and still negotiating terms on that. When
ever you excavate around that structure on the north side that you take all
precautions to keep the sediment from going into the Terry Property. Your
pond is out-letting onto an adjoining parcel. The County Surveyor’s office
is going to request that you contact those downstream property owners to
make the drainage ways across their properties a regulated drain if they do
not want that we will need that denial in writing. Perimeter swales or any
other swales in the development will need to be at one percent (1%) or
greater if not than an under drain. Any under drain off the right-of-way
must meet the double wall pipe. We will get you letter.
SHUPPERD: Our gas facility is on the north side of 116th street or we will just come
across there. Once everything gets approved give a call and we will get
things going. Your contact is Jerry Brigg.
PRATER: No facilities.
BOOHER: I just need a phone call to go over details. I have nothing in the office on
file yet. Please send copies of the primary and the secondary to my office.
I will need auto cad, once we get rolling we would like you to contact
Tom Orgway of Vegetation Management for conflict management with
our overhead lines. I will give you my card for new service request.
BROERMANN: I did send out a letter. I did not have the revised secondary plat. I
need a copy. J. Dobosiewicz mentioned a variance for the cul-de-
sac. You will need to go through the Zoning Board for that
variance.
BREWER: No letter sent. I am confused by the conservation lot that you listed as a
primary conservation area on the open space plan I need details on that.
On the open space plan it is listed as half that lot. That is not considered a
primary conservation area. What is the plan for that?
OLMSTEAD: It remains with the house on it. One barn is relocate from the platted part
over to what he is keeping as his house. We are entitled to claim half of
that as open space.
MERGELL: Are you asking for the intention of that lot? The owner of the property he
currently has a horse farm to the east and wants to keep something for his
children.
BREWER: Okay. Please state the intentions on the plan. The other thing the buffer
yard requirements you are short eight-five (85) shade trees; seventy-nine
(79) ornamentals and two hundred sixty (260) shrubs. On the path up front
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it snakes through the landscaping as those pines/spruce grow that is too
close. Especially if it is asphalt the trees will grow over it, you want to
space those wider. In the median island in the entrance no ornamentals
Pears replace with European Horn Bean, Mohawk Maple, River Birch
Yellow Wood something like that. Wildflower area I did not see anything
that would be planted there as well as establishment plants I need to see
that too.
DOBOSIEWICZ: With regard to the issue J. Liston said you have to identify the
landscaping and drainage swale there is the additional twenty-five
(25) feet maintenance landscape easement and then the fifteen (15)
feet drainage utility easement. You need to revise those plans and
identify the planting outside the drainage/utility easement but
within that maintenance landscape easement. What is your
preference J. Liston along the property line or pull in the drainage
easement.
LISTON: It may work better if we just flip-flop those.
DOBOSIEWICZ: The additional planting that S. Brewer was talking about I would
suggest you group those along the western side at the buffer to the
adjoining lots. In addition on the landscaping the additional lot
drive way access that may be an issue the highway department
does not want to see any additional access cut.
BROERMANN: you are showing the non-access easement across lot 70 and we
would hold to that no driveway across that in the future. If the
Children would develop that lot we would make them use the
access drive on lot 69. We will give you one access drive for those
two lots and where you choose.
DOBOSIEWICZ: I would identify the access easement along the conservation line
and place that non-access easement across the additional line. So
there is no question when it gets recorded if the owner sells it to
someone outside the family they have to share a driveway.
SOUTH: Soil descriptions Brookston is your worst as far as drainage there is an
existing private drain tile that crosses the northwest corner of the
Blackwell property on your east side. Your northeast, their northwest
corner. The existing tile crosses all the way through your property. You are
going to destroy it. I am trying to make you aware of it.
OLMSTEAD: We will tie it in.
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SOUTH: Along the same discussion mentioned a wood buffer along the west side
pond area three (3) would enhance the native/wildlife area planned again
less confusing for me if the existing well and septic were shown on the
plan.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is it supposed to provide those two lots with sewer and water?
MERGELL: Yes.
HOYT: I have a letter. I need an updated set of plans showing the additional
acreage you have acquired also show fire hydrant locations. Any
intentions of an amenity building?
OLMSTEAD: No.
BUTLER: Sent a letter no further comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Just to note the sidewalks are not called out. Walks are five (5) feet
required. There is a path-way that runs through the middle of the
site we would like to see those path-ways get connected up on
north side circle in the path. Pull that path over and cut across a
block and pull a leg up to the cross walks. We are trying to get
away from cross walks at non-intersections. In addition to those
comments I would like to see a plan that identifies the property to
the west and the location of the home to the west I want to make
sure that the position of that road to engineer it south and not to go
through the existing and angle and adjust it to the south and west
on your property.
KERN: The District has not received any plans for this proposal. Building permits
should NOT be issued unless the District has issued connection permits.
…END…
West Carmel Center, Block C (Secondary Plat)
Filed by Craig Forgey of AMERICAN CONSULTING INC.
AND
West Carmel Center, Block C, “Bank One”
(Development Plan)
Filed by CSO ARCHITECTS
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Representing the Petitioners:
Eric Matson, CSO ARCHITECTS
Blaine Paul, AMERICAN CONSULTING INC.
Comes now West Carmel Center, Block C Secondary Plat. Bank One is the only
development on the site today we are going to take comments for those at the same time.
The Secondary Plat is straightforward so I would like to combine comments. If you have
separate comments directed at one item in particular make that known.
The applicant seeks to plat a 3-lot subdivision. The site is located at the northwest corner
of Carwinion Way and Commerce Drive. The site is zoned B-3/Business and is within the
US 421 Overlay Zone. The applicant also seeks development plan approval for a
Financial Institution. The site is located within the northwest corner of Carwinion Way
and Commerce Dr.
MATSON: We have put together a concept of development plan showing all of block
“C” as a concept of what we wanted it to be at completion. The only
specific views are for lot-two, which is the “Bank One” site. The building
you see on lot-one is conceptual lot, building, plan and landscape plan. We
provided the utility, drainage and construction for all three lots. We will
only be installing what will be required to support the work for the “Bank
One” side with the exception of the storm water retention. We will
probably construct both dry detention areas during the construction of the
“Bank One” site. That way, when lot-three develops we will tap into that,
and when lot-one develops as indicated before we will provide an
additional dention at that time. As far as the secondary plat is concerned, I
did get the comments in here and I have no questions about those
comments.
LISTON: I will send a letter. This site affects the Parkmore Western Drain which
runs along the right-of-way at US421 the culvert pipe that goes under
US421, the crossover pipe that takes the water over from the east side over
to the west side and down to Park Northwestern. The north side road to
this “Bank One” site when ever you tap into a new road into that existing
road system we will require an under drain under the existing curb which
is a single-wall be upgraded to a double-wall across those entrance
openings to the “Bank One” site. You will also be required to do an outlet
permit for this site. There will be maintenance requirements on that. Who
will be responsible for the maintenance on that site? We will get you a
letter.
PAUL: The “Bank One” site does not have any detention on that lot. The owner
who is 421 REALTY is maintaining lot-one and three until those are sold.
At sale, every lot sold will be owned by the person whom owns that lot.
They will be responsible for the grass areas, Panhandle Eastern Pipeline
easement so they will be responsible for both dry detention areas. That
will be written into the property deal.
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SHUPPERD: We will run a service off of Michigan Road for “Bank One” and the
proposed building next to it. We will just extend our main down from
Target and the right-of-way of Commerce Park. Contact person, customer
data sheet for “Bank One” for sizing of the meter, equipment load, new
service. That’s all.
PRATER: On the north side of “Bank One” you are showing one of our pipeline
easements and not the other, even though they overlap. You are showing
the markers but I want you to clearly show them on both the plat and
plans. We have an odd easement to the northerly pipeline, which does
cross this property. I also want to make sure your six feet planting area
easement does not cross into our easement pipe line elevation. On the
roadway we need pipeline elevations with construction drawings and
proposed road that crosses the lines. We need to know what the added
cover is going to be. You can contact us by the Indiana-1 call. If you are
using an Earthmover you must call our office with loaded axel weight.
They cannot cross all over the pipeline without ramping up or steel
platting or whatever. Call our operations group at our office and we will
get you load maximums for vehicles. Contact Mark Wood 733-3232.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Do you want them to stage construction over the easement?
PRATER: No.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Can you identify the area of staging out there?
PAUL: We will propose to stage off of lot-one.
DOBOSIEWICZ: You need to identify that and you are going to build the access
drive all at once.
PAUL: Yes.
BOOHER: No comments. That area is served by Indianapolis Power and Light.
BROERMANN: Seeing that you are only building on the “Bank One” site does that
mean that the entrances on Commerce Drive will not be built?
PAUL: Correct.
DOBOSIEWICZ: This is a development plan for this entire site. Yes, you will have
to come back with an amendment but the critical issue is because
their proposal is not in line with the other side you need to identify
that. I want build predictability.
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BROERMANN: The south entrance in my letter talks about shortening that radius
so we do not have to take out that casting. The north entrance has
the casting right in the middle of the proposed drive. We have had
some issues with the other entrances out there and getting those
tied in properly. J. Liston has a lot more experience with that…
LISTON: We have had problems going from chair back to valley curbs. We
had problems with water flowing positively through those areas
leaving the gutter areas fanning out. Will you work with Steve and
I on that?
DOBOSIEWICZ: Will it work better if they use a concrete approach?
BROERMANN: I think that is what the valley curb is supposed to do. Your casting
is currently sitting in the chair back curb. Provide us more detail
and a casting that worked.
BREWER: No letter compiled yet. There is a minimum planting in the
greenbelt that is three (3) shade trees and one (1) ornamental tree
and you have hardly planted anything in the greenbelt. You do
have a minimum for the greenbelt and also for the buffer yard you
are thirty-three (33) shade trees and five (5) ornamentals.
According to the buffer yard requirements for 26.4.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is that including the area across the pipeline?
BREWER: No, one other question on the north side you have a fifteen yard
setback some of which is occupied by the pipeline easement and
some is not. Why are you not planting in that easement setback?
PRATER: I can answer that, because they are not showing the rest of our
easement that goes outside their boundary. The southern line has a
one hundred (100) feet right-of-way and the northerly line has a
sixty-six (66) feet and is sixteen feet (16’) north of the pipeline and
fifty feet (50’) south. Because the way that the road to the north is
configured it is on the outer edge of the northerly easement
boundary and outside their property line. That is why the pipeline
needs to be identified.
BREWER: You also had plantings on the east building that run through a
water line easement and the fifteen feet (15’) sanitary easement to
the south. I believe there will be requirements from our utility that
will ask you to not cross the line. You also have some plantings in
a proposed right-of-way on the east side. Is that the right-of-way
you are proposing to give up you are giving up?
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PAUL: That is proposed.
BREWER: On the planting detail you need to add a note to remove all the guy
wires and stakes after One (1) year. You also have thirty-seven (37)
Ash. Regionally there is a pest killing Ash trees and kills every
species. So first I would start by dividing your plant species by
three with the Ash.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Are they short on the plantings on the “Bank One” site only?
BREWER: No, the whole development.
DOBOSIEWICZ: I want to identify the detention pond to the south as plantings
identified a six feet (6’) perimeter plantings around the parking lot
unencumbered by the detention pond. There is a significant
number of plantings needed between US421 and the site.
BREWER: I noticed that the detention pond stretched or extended out into the
greenbelt about the distance of the second building. But there are
some areas south of the pipeline for planting.
SOUTH: I sent you a letter. We need to see a more detailed construction sequence
and the perimeter protection plan. Right now you have two storm sewers,
one on the north one west that need to be protected. With the size of the
site a silt fence is not adequate. So work in some type of sediment basin or
trap to collect that storm before it is allowed to discharge off the site. You
have to show that you have the appropriate storage capacity. No silt
fencing of any kind is appropriate for that site. The DNR Manual indicates
no more than one-quarter acre for lineal hundred feet of silt fence. Which
roughly is a one hundred feet back to the silt fence. Fairly small really just
looking at sheet flows that are appropriate for a silt fence. It seems like
you could incorporate that dry detention basin along with a diversion
swale across the front of the property to get the water into it.
PAUL: In your letter you referenced wire baskets with geo-textiles. Do you have a
product name that you like?
SOUTH: I will send you some information. The only other comment I have is you
have large areas of grass where the Panhandle Eastern easements are. I
think that should be included into the landscaping plan of the type of grass
you plan to use for example more of an orchard grass with clover in it.
Incorporate some wildflowers.
PRATER: We prefer short grass over the pipeline itself.
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SOUTH: Let’s review it and not just assume it is okay and I recommend that
someone from your office look at it and make a recommendation.
PRATER: Just keep us informed of what you will be doing.
HOYT: “Bank One” first is this a sprinkled building?
PAUL: No.
HOYT: I would still like to see a Knox Box for access after hours. Get with our
office for an application for the Knox System. The rest on the
development plan layout there is not a lot of water supplied I only see one
hydrant. Are you going to supply the other buildings with water? Some of
the parking service areas where we could have vehicle fires water is far
away. Can we add more hydrants to the plan maybe between Ritter’s and
Target? I will wait on all other comments.
BUTLER: No additional comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We will be in anticipation of the revised architectural renderings.
Any other issues on the site such as dumpster pad location the
construction needs to be compatible with the design of the
building. I see it sitting on top of the water line easement. It needs
to be a structure. I would like to add to your plans the State’s
Improvements along the right-of-way and show the articulated
connection between their sidewalk they are improving and
building. For example picking it up and continuing it around the
building.
PAUL: In your letter regarding the plat. There was a comment about showing the
existing features on the Secondary Plat could you explain in detail what
you need?
BUTLER: Looking for existing structures on the site.
PAUL: and in your letter you mention NAE, what is NAE?
BUTLER: Non-Access Easement.
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KERN: For West Carmel Center, The preliminary plans received by the Direct do
not how any proposed sewers. Revised plans will need to be submitted to
the District. Building permits should NOT be issued unless the District has
issued connection permits. For “Bank One” The preliminary plans
received by the District do not show any proposed sewers. Revised plans
will need to be submitted to the District. Building permits should NOT be
issued unless the District has issued connection permits.
…END…
Weston Pointe (Primary Plat)
Filed by Steve Pittman of Pittman Partners
Representing the Petitioners:
Dennis Olmstead, STOEPPELWERTH
Brain Robison, STOEPPELWERTH
Steve Pittman, PITTMAN PARTNERS
Neal Smith, PITTMAN PARTNERS
Comes now Weston Pointe a 130 Unit Subdivision developed on US421. The petitioner
seeks to plat a 130-unit subdivision. The site is located along the east side of Michigan
Road ½ mile north of 106th Street.
My name is Steve Pittman with PITTMAN PAARTNERS. Here with me is Neal Smith
also of PITTMAN PARTNERS, Dennis Olmstead and Brain Robison both of
STOEPPELWERTH. This site is on US421 south of 116th Street and north of 106th Street.
It is south and adjacent to Altum Gardens. The overall piece is 34 acres.We are here
today for the Primary Platting of approximately twenty (20) acres. One issue we had was
the connection with the Westins and I know the City would like to occur. Our
commitments to the neighbors was we are not going to demand they connect with us but
will do whatever the County and the City tell us to do. Our road will stud into the
property to the north, which will swing around other undeveloped property and come out
at 116th Street. This plan is part of a Residential Open Space Ordinance, (ROSO) under
the R-4 zoning. All these units will be geared for the empty nester. Our Builder to date is
Portrait Homes. This plan will require one variance and we have Vine and Branch to
come out here.
LISTON: Are the streets going to be public or private?
OLMSTEAD: The shaded streets are private.
LISTON: I think with the public right-of-way we will regulate those drains. There is
a possibility to do the private streets too. I know there are going to be
improvements to US421 and I do not see that you are out letting into the
right-of-way. Contact the State…(interruption).
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OLMSTEAD: We have. They are aware of that problem and are proposing to take care
of it with the improvements.
LISTON: We have a site that is on the other end of 96th street. Where the
developer of a hotel was supposed to work with the state to get a
positive outlet off their site and it did not happen. They are still
pumping water off their site.
OLMSTEAD: The State is e-mailing us their files.
LISTON: We do have regulated drain on the south and east side of this
development in the Westins. So when we get into the construction
plan portion that you show those existing parallel lines one of our
comments will be to show the parallel ask that your show those
lines on the plan.
PITTMAN: Do you have a regulated drain going through the Fazenfeld
property to the north?
LISTON: Yes we do. It runs to the pond.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Westins discharges into their pond?
OLMSTEAD: That was an agreed upon deal. Fazenfeld wanted the water and we
arranged to take it away.
LISTON: I will get you a letter.
SHUPPERD: Is this a gas community?
PITTMAN: Yes.
SHUPPERD: These private streets will need some type of utility easement to run
our main and hit the service for the Townhouses with double-meter
sets.
OLMSTEAD: Each one of these units will be owned by the purchaser as well as a
portion of the ground around the Townhouse. These are not
condominiums. Each unit will require their own set of service.
BOOHER: Some of this is IPL. If I can get an AutoCAD and overlay it in our system
I can put in the boundaries lines and see what serves what. Just a note,
Cinergy has transmission lines up and down US421. I will put you in
touch with the transmission people.
OLMSTEAD: We have the names and made the adjustments.
17
BOOHER: I need to put you in touch with Tom Orgway in our vegetation
management department.
BROERMANN: We want the connection made to the Westins. I have nothing else
and will wait on construction plans.
BREWER: I will start with the open space. You listed no primary conservation
area. The whole woodland is a primary conservation area. That
needs to be shown. Delineate how much you are taking. I would
like to see the woodland evaluation from Vine and Branch.
PITTMAN: We delivered something to you the other day.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Make sure when you deliver something to our office you specify
who is to get it. If you just drop it off at door and expect it to go to
the right place that is not going to happen. S. Brewer is a member
of TAC just like any other member is and we need to make sure he
gets the proper materials.
PITTMAN: I will get you that report from Vine and Branch today.
BREWER: Okay. Also in Chapter 7 some regulations for the type of
evaluation and woodland protection practices have to be followed
which include no grade changes that will affect the drainage. No
land clearing before Secondary approval and a level “C” buffer
along the new edge that needs to be shown. I do not see any tree
protection plans shown. The buffer yard guidelines say if you want
to preserve that etched stuff that is fine if it is adequate if it is thick
enough and you have to protect it. The east side of the buffer is list
as requirements as twenty-three (23) shade trees thirty (30)
ornamentals, one-hundred and sixty (160) shrubs. Are these the
entrances on the US421 side? There are a couple of things: do not
plant Hawthorns in the median island. They grow out and become
a maintenance headache. They scratch the buses and the cars. I
recommend another species like Redbud, Pin dot, Hammer Maple,
Serviceberry, European Horn beam. Also you have two types of
Ash. I recommend switching one type to another species of tree.
We have a regional insect Emerald Ash Borer kills every Ash
species.
SOUTH: Soil information on the site. The woodland area preservation is good
planning. Futuristic statement could the common area 7,8, & 9 be used for
storm water filtration areas?
HOYT: Where is the amenity area?
18
OLMSTEAD: No amenity building.
HOYT: Are these going to be sprinkled?
PITTMAN: No.
HOYT: Will you have street-side parking?
PITTMAN: No. Will we write something in the covenants to reflect that.
HOYT: We will get the revised? Show hydrant locations on the Secondary.
OLMSTEAD: We will get hydrant locations over to you sooner than that.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Show the building set back lines for building “A”. Show a Non -
access easement along US421. The width of the proposed drive
sixty (60) feet and then you come back to roughly between
commercial and residential. I was going to ask that the width be
maintained past Monitor Lane and the second entrance and taper
back at this location. There is enough room to the south.
OLMSTEAD: We can’t go to the intersection Monitor Lane.
DOBOSIEWICZ: You have room to make that happen.
PITTMAN: Take that thirty (30) feet and make it thirty-six (36) feet?
DOBOSIEWICZ: Like it is out front.
PITTMAN: The problem with it being 36 to Monitor Lane is that on the east
side of Monitor Lane we only have thirty (30) feet.
DOBOSIEWICZ: With that comment this is sufficient. I want you to provide a
template to show there is enough to turn around as opposed to back
out. We need to make sure that a moving van can get in and out.
We need to review the following: portrait building along with the
street widths, parking for visitors. Curb is required. I also want you
to show us the existing buildings. In addition to that show your
improvement for the US 421 intersection.
HOYT: The Fire Department has one more comment. We are very much in favor
of the connection between yours and the Westins.
19
KERN: The District has not received any plans for this proposal. Building permits
should NOT be issued unless the District has issued connection permits.
…END…
Heather Knoll (Primary Plat)
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of STOEPPELWERTH & ASSOCIATES
Representing the Petitioners:
Dennis Olmstead, STOEPPELWERTH
Brain Robison, STOEPPELWERTH
Steve Pittman, PITTMAN PARTNERS
Neal Smith, PITTMAN PARTNERS
Comes now Heather Knoll, Primary Plat. The applicant seeks to plat a 57-lot subdivision.
The site is located on the north side of 141st Street, one-half mile west of Towne Road.
The site is zoned S-1/Residence-Very Low Density.
PITTMAN: The plan we are proposing is 57 lots per ROSO similar to the Trails at
Hayden Run. In the middle of the site we are picking up the road that
would bisect our site out to 146th Street.
LISTON: This is a regulated drain subdivision. The site has the Stultz & Almond
drain that crosses it. We have asked Centex at The Trails to vacate their
portion across them. They are taking their water and going south to Long
Branch. We will ask the same thing of you to vacate and destroy. We
believe that Mr. Stamper has done a midnight reconstruction so-to-speak
across his property. We think that the drain goes in behind his house now.
We will assist you in pinpointing that line.
PITTMAN: When we vacate we will take our water to the south?
LISTON: I have a note here that reads to connect reconnect to Stultz & Almond
drain at Westwood Estates.
OLMSTEAD: We have overextended what has gone south by taking the Trails down
through the Ridge. We had to upsize pipes to maintain that. Certain
improvements cannot be made due to current construction. Much of this
area that using this drain is already accounted for in a different direction
like the Trails at Hayden Run, north end of Lakeside Park is now going
south. The drainage area that is now still depended on the Stultz &
Almond is less. They asked me that the remaining Water Shed south of
146th Street the pipe would have to be sized appropriately for that. They
also said that Lakeside Park is required to replace that portion of the legal
drain across theirs as a condition of approval.
20
LISTON: I am aware of that. We know where it is east of Towne Road Westwood
Estates we found along the shoulder area. The farther west it goes back
under the road. We may have to push that out into the easement along the
south side of 141st Street. Let’s discuss this with K. Ward.
DOBOSIEWICZ: The water on this site is going all the way into Westwood Estates.
LISTON: Yes.
SHUPPERD: Is your entrance to this going to be across from the Ridge?
OLMSTEAD: No. It is next to the Trails. It is east of the Ridge.
SHUPPERD: Extend for the ridge and the trails we will have gas out front of your
development. We will extend our gas from the Ridge and the Trails and be
at your entrance.
BOOHER: We will need new service request, AutoCAD files hard copy, there is a
transmission line running up and down the road. They happen to be
moving those poles. I do not know if there is a conflict with your entrance
and passing blister. Stringing wire tomorrow and I will put you in touch
with those people if you need to. It will be cheaper for you to do it now.
BROERMAN: I want to add to my letter that the thirty-six (36) feet wide streets
need a median in them at the intersection.
BREWER: I do not have the open space for the plot you have the fifteen (15) feet rear
drain easement and twenty-five (25) landscape easement you might want
to flip-flop those. The landscaping does not go all around the perimeter of
the subdivision any reason why? For the buffer requirement you were
short sixty-nine (69) shade trees, sixty (60) ornamental, two hundred and
seventy-five (275) shrubs for perimeter. Total numbers need to match no
matter where they plant.
SOUTH: This project does deal with some Patton Soil but you placed your pond in
the majority of the Patton Soil. Decent planning. I would certainly
recommend extensive soil investigation with your lots building on Patton
Soil type. I am recommending a wooded buffer along the north and west
side of the common area eight (8) to enhance the pond and create a better
native area. Historically this property has been very wet due to soil
topography or poor drainage. I do not recommend basements.
HOYT: I need a set of hydrant locations. Will there be an amenities building?
PITTMAN: No.
21
BUTLER: No additional comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Have you made any headway with this parcel here?
PITTMAN: We have submitted an offer.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Just have not heard back? I will do everything in my power to help
you with relief if you need relief from standards to make that
happen. As far as your open space issues I would like you to take
this cul-de-sac and move it over and allow and area along here this
parcel is about 230 feet wide that would accommodate a row of
lots along the roadway, double load it up to Hubbard’s property.
You also want that entrance as far over to the east as possible on
146th street for the purposes of the tapering lane. Where lot 45 and
46 are take this road and curve it and push these lots back and over
so you know that you have an area to work with here and we have
the ability to build that street along that frontage. If this is included
in that then you can eliminate this entrance.
PITTMAN: So then we could not call this common area?
DOBOSIEWICZ: Right. I would exclude it or request a waiver from that
requirement. We will support the waiver request because it is going
to accommodate the construction of this roadway. Remember on
these lots the ROSO requirement there is no rear yard setbacks so
you can pinch down some of these lot sizes to accommodate that
bring it straight north.
KERN: The District has not received any plans for this proposal. Building permits
should NOT be issued unless the District has issued connection permits.
…END…
22
Cherry Creek Estates, Section 2
(Secondary Plat and Construction Plans)
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of STOEPPELWERTH &
ASSOCIATES
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONER:
Tim Walter, PLATINUM PROPERTIES
Bill Bryant, STOEPPELWERTH
Comes now Cherry Creek Estates, Section Two, the Primary Plat, Section One came
through earlier this year Section One is under construction. The site is located on the east
side of Hazel Dell Parkway north of Cherry Tree Road. The site is zoned S-1/Residential
– Low Intensity.
BRYANT: This section connects into “1B” the street will also connect into Delaware
Trace. There will be forty-six (46) lots.
LISTON: The only comments I have regard the Emily Vestal drain. We can sit down
with K. Weese and discuss what is needed there.
SHUPPERD: We will come out of the first section and tie-in at Delaware Trace and
come out of that area.
BOOHER: This is Dean Groves’ area. I recommend keeping in touch with him.
BREWER: No comments. We talked about the trees being replaced in the right-of-
way to that end. They are all going in around that one lot. Eleven (11)
trees lot seventy (70) in Section One. I will send you a letter. I need to get
those Ash out of the median.
DOBOSIEWICZ: There is a commitment for additional plantings on the back of the
lots and is Pulte going to do that?
BRYANT: Yes.
HILL: I found those drawings. I will cover our comments in a letter.
SOUTH: The basin you show on the south edge we need more detail on that. What
you are actually going to construct, depth, contours, elevations. You have
an outlet there does it make sense to divert that water of to the existing
pond? You may be able to use the actual street construction grades for
sediment basin instead of artificially creating something.
HOYT: Will this section have the amenities building?
23
BRYANT: No.
BUTLER: I sent you a letter with my comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Can you label the width between lots one hundred ten (110) and
one hundred eleven (111) the easement was not labeled. Then
between one hundred twelve (112), one hundred thirteen (113) and
two hundred one (201) the easement narrows to fifteen (15) feet it
is not connected for defining that easement. Typically it is a
twenty (20) feet easement between houses. You have fifteen (15)
on one side and nothing on the other. Can you give us a brief run
down of how the process is going with the delineation of the flood
plain? Are you seeking letters of map revision?
WALTER: Yes. We are starting the process on LOMR.
DOBOSIEWICZ: My understanding of the problems that existed along the portion of
Cherry Tree Boulevard was related to construction sequencing.
WALTER: The Freemont Randal drain is a smaller drain that comes down and ties
into the storm sewers for Cherry Creek Boulevard outlet to that our
construction plans show that drain being reconstructed and lowered two
feet to minimize erosion. The storm sewers are in.
LISTON: Are you still thinking spring for a completion on that?
WALTER: Yes.
DOBOSIEWICZ: So your outlets today just terminate into…(interruption)
WALTER: Two feet below ground.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Okay. There was a Plat Amendment filed for the ranch lots to
reduce lot size from twenty-five (25) to twenty (20) that is an
administrative process. All we need is for you to file a Replat of
the lots “x – y” of Section “1B” changing that set back from
twenty-five (25) to twenty (20) feet. Get us the replat do not wait.
…END…
24
Hearthview Residential PUD (Rezone – Revised Development Plan)
Filed by Filed by Joseph M. Scimia of BAKER AND DANIELS
Representing the Petitioners:
Joe Scimia, Baker and Daniels Law Firm
Kelli Laurence, HEARTHVIEW
Jim Thomas, HEARTHVEW
Greg Rasmussen, TLF
Comes now Hearthview Residential. We previously saw a site layout for this plan. Some
modifications have been made and the Petitioner has asked to be placed back on TAC to
review those with the TAC Members and get modified comments. The applicant seeks to
rezone a parcel from R-1/Residence to a PUD (Planned Unit Development) District
designation. The property is generally located at the southeast corner of 116th Street and
the Monon Greenway.
My name is Joe Scimia. I am a Lawyer for Baker and Daniels for Hearthview
Residential. We appeared before you in June 2003 with this project previously
reconfigured since that time we met with the neighbor. Basically changed the
configuration of the project and decreased the density from twenty-nine (29) to twenty
(20) units. We have changed the product to a series of ten (10) two-story two (2)-unit
buildings single family attached. We reconfigured the road pattern for fire & safety and
provided the turn-around. We have addressed some of the landscaping issues along the
southern line. We have addressed most of the comment letters.
LISTON: No additional.
SHUPPERD: Gas?
SCIMIA: Maybe.
SHUPPERD: Private streets?
SCIMIA: Yes.
SHUPPERD: Utilities will run along the road and serve each building with a double
meter set
BOOHER: Dean Groves is your contact.
HILL: The entrance the twelve (12) feet lane going in. G. Hoyt do you see any
problem with that.
HOYT: I would like to see that wider. Did you move anything or change anything?
RASMUSSEN: The eyebrow was changed.
HOYT: There is probably enough room for me to make the swing to get into there.
Typically I like them wider like fifteen (15) feet.
RASMUSSEN: It is rolled curb too.
HILL: Whose driveway is across from this?
25
RASMUSSEN: The church.
HILL: K. Weese is concerned with the distance from the edge of the median into
the pavement. Lane markings may be appropriate there. No sidewalk?
RASMUSSEN: No.
HILL: There does not appear to be any easements on this site plan and the water
main is going to be Carmel’s?
SCIMIA: Yes. They will be private grants anyway. We are not platting the property.
DOBOSIEWICZ: They will be back to TAC with construction plans.
SCIMIA: It will be an HPR.
HILL: Has Carmel Utilities approved that water main?
RASMUSSEN: Yes.
HILL: Before you go to the Board of Public Works I would like to have the
listing of buildings by number and number of bedrooms. Are these
Townhomes?
THOMAS: Yes.
SOUTH: I sent a letter. Currently your plan does not meet the requirements for
erosion control. Better sequence and concerns about your perimeter
protection practices. What happens to the storm water as it drains toward
the Monon?
RASMUSSEN: Per the plans of Carmel, they were capturing that with the right-of-
way plan and taking it to 116th street and east along the south side
of 116th Street. We are providing rear yard swale and taking it to
our detention facility. It is just pasture now.
SOUTH: When you no longer have pasture where is that water going to go? It goes
somewhere if you do not have a diversion. Recommendations are
required. Seeding specs are needed. Erosion Control Plans require that it
be seeded. Show the seeding areas unless homes are being built.
RASMUSSEN: We will work out a detail on that.
26
BREWER: I have the small size landscape sheet and changes in the PUD. I need a full
set of plans. Comments on the PUD, the minimum size for shade trees are
2-½ calipers.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Please draft a letter for the Plan Commission explaining the DBH
and the caliper landscape sizes.
BREWER: These changes should be in caliper height. For example 2-½ calipers
should be twelve (12) feet high. Evergreens should be eight (8) feet high.
LAURENCE: How do you come up with the standard?
BREWER: It is a standard set by landscapers across the country.
SCIMIA: What about those are on a berm.
BREWER: How tall is your berm?
SCIMIA: two feet (2’).
BREWER: You are tying the landscaping to the plan. Are you going to have any other
landscaping onsite around the building?
SCIMIA: Discretionary. We do not have a canned package.
BREWER: How are your buffering plantings on the plan in comparison to the
planting standard?
SCIMIA: Same.
BREWER: You do have some Ash trees recommend you change out your Ash trees to
something else due to an exotic pest that kills all species of Ash. I will
send you some recommendations.
HOYT: I was looking at your keynotes and by building three, four (3, 4) you have
a key note sixteen (16) but it is not listed in the keynote. I was wondering
if we could redirect the arrow to the north and change it to ten (10) and
add a hydrant there.
SCIMIA: On the Utility Plan?
HOYT: Yes. What we look for is one (1) every five hundred (500) feet. I measured
the cul-de-sac length and eight hundred and seventy feet (870’) is a long
distance.
THOMAS: I did misplace a hydrant in there.
27
BREWER: Are you going to landscape the entrance median?
THOMAS: Low growth.
BREWER: I can make some recommendations on that too.
BUTLER: No additional comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Can you put together a template for turning radius for a school
bus? Something G. Hoyt would be comfortable with forward that
to G. Hoyt. I also want a letter from you G. Hoyt directed to the
Plan Commission based upon receipt of that drawing that states
you are comfortable with the internal design specifically that
“eyebrow and first cul-de-sac”
HOYT: G. Rasmussen I will send you the turning radius information.
DOBOSIEWICZ: When you show up for the meeting on October 7, 2003 for
committee, submit a rendering 8.5 x 11 layout with the turning
radius throughout. Then confirm with a memo from G. Hoyt that
they have the ability to do that.
KERN: The District has not received any plans for this proposal. Building permits
should NOT be issued unless the District has issued connection permits.
…END…
28
Lockerbie PUD (Secondary Plat and Construction Plans)
Filed by James E. Shinaver of NELSON AND FRANKENBERGER
Representing the Petitioners:
Mark Webber, ESTRIDGE COMPANY
Jim Nelson, NELSON & FRANKENBERGER
Cort Crosby, SCHNEIDER CORPORATION
Comes now Lockerbie PUD, Secondary Plat and Construction Plans for that
neighborhood. It is currently before the City Council. The first reading favorable
response from the Council Members. This should go through the City Council with a
second reading approval Monday, October 6, 2003. The applicant seeks construction plan
approval of a residential development. The property is located at the southwest corner of
Rohrer Road and Marana Drive.
NELSON: We are doing a Townhome development on the southwest corner of
Marana Drive and Rohrer Road. C. Crosby has provided the plans for
review.
LISTON: We have regulated drain on three sides north, west and south. Marana
Drive Hunter’s Creek South drain stops outlets to an end section into the
right-of-way of Rohrer Road. You need to show how we are picking that
up.
CROSBY: It will stay the same.
LISTON: I need to check that out. On the south side we have the Hunter’s Knoll
drain. Looks like we are encroaching into that easement. I need to talk to
Kent and see if he wants to regulate any of this since we have regulated
drain all around this. We will talk with D. Hill about that as well. If
Carmel wants it they can have it.
SHUPPERD: Is this going to be gas?
WEBBER: Yes.
SHUPPERD: I need to look at these plans. Were you planning on us laying-in the alley
access? In the back or the front? Are these private streets?
WEBBER: Between the buildings.
SHUPPERD: These are double units/townhouses?
WEBBER: Two-story three-unit buildings and four-unit buildings.
29
SHUPPERD: Okay, let’s sit down and go over the spacing and the hook-up.
WEBBER: This is the same as we did at Centennial.
BOOHER: This falls in Dean Groves’ area 317-581-3041. Set of hard copy, prints,
secondary plat, the AutoCAD file, and new service request.
HILL: Is the sidewalk along the Monon will it stay?
CROSBY: Yes.
HILL: They will need to be bonded and five (5) feet. Also the curb cuts need to
be bonded. The perimeter monumentation I notice they are showing
existing rebars at the corner. Will they be required to replace those?
DOBOSIEWICZ: The ordinance will call for this to have concrete monuments at the
corners and we will ask for that requirement.
HILL: That would be another bonding requirement. The east curb cut into
Marana Drive is it possible to adjust that entrance a little to line up that
left turn lane with Offutt Drive? She does not like to see the median in the
right-of-way. Are all the sewers and sanitary lines in dedicated easements?
CROSBY: If we do it like we did at Townehomes at Hazel Dell where we specified a
utility easement that is basically everything but the buildings.
DOBOSIEWICZ: I think it is going to take to some additional coordination on how
effective it was out at Hazel Dell.
LISTON: These under drains on Marana Drive. I think they are behind the curb done
probably back before they moved them. So when you are making these
new cuts you will have to pick up that other drain.
HILL: Did we get drainage calcs for this?
CROSBY: I thought so.
SOUTH: I sent C. Crosby a letter. Currently you have storm pipes connected at the
other at the dry basin. It is not worth a hoot for a basin as a sentiment trap.
We need some way to discharge that storm pipe into the basin in a
temporary fashion until things are stabilized. If you leave sections of pipe
out or whatever. Take a look at that. Would recommend a different type of
paved inlet protection. Your inlets are in the middle street it is a tight
construction area so gravel bags are not going to last long recommend
something that fits down into the structure to collect your sediment
30
LISTON: Oak Hill Manor in Westfield has one you can look at.
SOUTH: I can get you information on that. We need instruction on the building
construction itself, silt fencing behind the curb etc.
BREWER: I need a current copy of the PUD. About sizes, shade trees should be 2.5
inches in caliper. Shrubs should be twenty (24) inches and evergreens
eight (8) feet. Any electrical overhead lines on Roher Road?
DOBOSIEWICZ: Across the street.
BREWER: Avoid planting trees under those lines. On the labeling White Oaks are
labeled Red Oaks, Hedge Maple replace with Amur Maple it is a better
species.
HOYT: Sprinkled buildings? What about an amenity building?
WEBBER: They buildings will be separate and no.
HOYT: They are all two-story?
WEBBER: Yes.
HOYT: Garage underneath?
WEBBER: No, main level.
BUTLER: I will get you a letter.
DOBOSIEWICZ: On the location of the sidewalks. It is our preference that you do
not pull the sidewalk to the curb. I would prefer that you pull the
sidewalk closer where we plant the trees between the road and the
sidewalk. You have a fifteen (15) feet building line. If you keep it
the way it is it will look cheap and you do not want that. Suggest
you review that.
BREWER: They cannot do that at three (3) feet. Those trees are too big.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Okay, What about a tree behind the sidewalk in the lawn area but
you keep the three (3) feet lawn between the curb and the
sidewalk?
BREWER: That would work.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Esthetically it is more pleasing with the sidewalk pulled away from
the curb.
31
SOUTH: Have you thought about decorative sidewalks?
DOBOSIEWICZ: That is another option. It will pay off.