HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 01-16-02CARMEL /CLAY TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
MEETING
January 16, 2002
9:00 a.m.
Members present:
Jon Dobosiewicz Carmel DOCS
John South Ham. Co. Soil Water
Jim Blanchard Deputy Bldg. Comm.
Dick Hill Carmel Engineering
Steve Cash Ham. Co. Surveyors
Laurence Lillig DOCS
Scott Brewer Carmel Urban Forester
Mike McBride Carmel Engineering
Jim Foster Carmel Fire Dept.
Tom Ordway Cinergy PSI
Lot 1 of Merchants' Pointe, Forum Credit Union (Construction Plans)
Petitioner seeks Architectural Design, Lighting Landscaping Signage for a Financial
Institution. The site is located at 2359 East 116 Street. The site is zone B -8 /Business.
Filed by James J. Nelson of Nelson Frankenberger for Forum Credit Union.
Jim Nelson presented the case. He introduced Corrie Meyer, Weihe Engineers Inc.,
Williams Combs, Brown Day Mullins Dierdorf, Jim Shinaver, Nelson Frankenberger,
and Adam Miller and Tom Marten, Marten Construction Management. Forum Credit
Union wishes to construct a financial institution on the final lot of Merchants' Point.
Plans have been provided for Lot 1. The site is at the intersection of 116 Street and
Pointe Parkway.
Scott Brewer has not written a letter. He suggested a substitute for the red maple shade
trees because they do not do well in parking lot situations. Corrie Meyer agreed.
Dick Hill stated Board of Public Works approval and water and sewer connection fees are
required. Mr. Hill's letter lists other Engineering Department requirements. He also
asked for drainage calcs and /or a summary of how Lot 1 fits into the overall Merchant's
Pointe master plan. The petitioner must provide drainage design information including
elevations, pipes, lengths, and slopes. The crosswalk on sheet C2 must be indicated. The
right of way lines, easements, and street names should be included on all sheets. The
existing and proposed edge of pavement of 116 Street needs to be indicated. Plans must
identify all storm, sanitary, and water installations as existing or proposed. Plan note
10 must clarify whether the new proposed pavement meets with existing or future
pavement. Mr. Hill does not know what "disturbed topography not current" means.
This must be clarified. The contours should be included. A Consent to Encroach
agreement will be required for improvements within the drainage, utility and sewer
easement. Dick Hill would like a written response to his comments.
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John South sent a satisfactory letter regarding erosion control.
Jim Blanchard stated a presubmittal meeting would be held with his department after
BZA and PC approval is obtained.
Jim Foster attended the meeting for Gary Hoyt. The Fire Department had no comment.
Jon Dobosiewicz wants the photo metric expanded to include property line identification.
His concern involves 116 Street and how it directs closer to the right of way. Laurence
Lillig needs a cut sheet of the fixtures to be used. DOCS recommends a flat lens, shoe
box type. The 25 -foot pole height indicated on the plans is too high. He recommended a
shorter pole height. William Combs stated this was not a prototype building. Jon
Dobosiewicz suggested bringing building material samples to the Plan Commission
meeting.
Settlers Ridge at Haverstick, Section 2B (Secondary Plat)
The site is located northwest of East 131 Street and River Road. The site is zoned S-
1 /residence.
Filed by Edward E. Fleming for Stoeppelwerth Associates for Centex Homes.
Tom Kutz, Centex, provided information about the proposed secondary plat. There will
be 13 lots on 5.2 acres. It is zoned S1 and is an extension of Section 2A of the Settlers
Ridge development. Rodney Muller and Sean Sullivan, Centex, and Ed Fleming,
Stoeppelwerth Associates, were also in attendance.
Scott Brewer did not receive landscape plans. Rod Muller said there would be an
individual landscape package for each home. The majority of their common area
landscaping is within the main boulevard that runs through the site. Additionally, there is
a 20 -foot, wooded strip at the west property line. The fence rows will be preserved. The
Cluster Zoning Ordinance went into effect in 1994. This is standard in Centex's
Covenants and Restrictions. Mr. Brewer requested protection fencing. There should be a
note to further protect the site included in the construction plans. Laurence Lillig stated
this area is noted as a drainage easement. Mr. Kutz responded it was outside the common
area and the swale is at the rear of the lot line. Mr. Brewer noted the site development
plan does not show drainage easements in the common area. They are shown on the
secondary plat. Tom Kutz said he could move that but asked Dick Hill if he has
concerns. Mr. Hill will review the matter. Mike McBride clarified there is an existing
tree line along the west edge. Scott Brewer wants to preserve it. If the area is depicted as
"drainage then construction activity can occur. Mike McBride wants to see an
easement labeled there. He hopes it will be away from the trees. Tom Kutz stated the
trees are on the property line. There is a 15 -foot distance between the existing trees and
the rear yard swale. Laurence Lillig requested it be increased to 15 feet where it abuts the
common area at Lot 48 and along the west edge of Lots 41 to 47. Jon Dobosiewicz
believes the center of the swale is identified by the "line- dash dash Mr. Kutz indicated
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that is correct. Tom Kutz will not disturb the trees, as they are 15 feet away. Mr.
Dobosiewicz stated a problem exists if the common area is not identified as a variable
drainage easement. He suggested moving it five feet. Ed Fleming said it would have to
be labeled as an "SE" because there is a storm sewer in that common area. Lots 49
through 53 back up to lots in Section 3. There is no common area between them. Tom
Kutz stated there is a five -foot canopy on that tree line. Then, there is a distance of 15
feet to the centerline of the swale. The swale is, on average, two feet deep. Scott Brewer
was concerned about root disturbance. Any distance would help. The collection roots,
the feeder roots, are only 12 -18 inches from the top. Tom Kutz will move the swale five
feet into the lot, making the easement 15 feet in width. They will be 14 feet away from
the drip line of the trees. Scott Brewer stated that is a significant improvement. Tom
Kutz inquired if the storm sewer was okay in the location of Lots 47 and 48. Mr. Brewer
responded the probability of moving the storm sewer for these trees was pretty small. He
will not ask Tom Kutz to move the storm sewer as the expense would be great. Tom
Kutz stated it was possible to move the storm sewer five feet to the south. This would
keep the common area from being a drainage easement with a 12 -inch pipe, the
beginning of a run. There is farmland to the north. Earlham College owns that property
Steve Cash stated the lots are within the watershed of the Elizabeth Warren Regulated
Drain. An outlet request is needed. The fee will be $150.
Mike McBride stated a letter was sent to Ed Fleming. He reviewed the comments
regarding storm sewer and drainage. There is a discrepancy on the drainage calcs in the
lot numbering scheme. This is different from previous submittals. For the sake of
clarity, correction is needed. Tom Kutz explained the plat has been amended; it was
reduced by three lots and the numbering changed. Mr. McBride needs the lot numbers of
the existing section and neighboring areas. The storm sewer is shown to discharge to the
east and flow to the retention pond in the area. Engineering would like to see that the
discharge goes into a defined swale. The slope is good. Tom Kutz said it opens at the
base of the hill to a short section of trees, then to a grassy area and a swale into the lake.
If there is a swale, it needs to be shown on the plans. Otherwise, a swale must be
established. It appears to be a 10 percent slope. Some erosion protection is necessary.
Tom Kutz will indicate slope, swale, and the cross section into the pond. The pipe sizes
and slopes on are the profiles but not on the plans. Mr. McBride also needs the length
and material. It would help to have the flow arrows on the plan sheets. This needs to be
indicated in the area of the storm sewer line and the proposed area. It is important not to
create any big problems for the installation of the sewer line. The elevations are required
where the petitioner will tie new streets into existing. The drainage calcs should show a
summarization of how the drainage for this site ties into the overall plan. The calcs seem
to be a repeat of what was submitted in the past. It will be easier to review if the
petitioner indicates how this fits into the complete project. Tom Kutz stated the
discharge of the storm sewer goes into a common area /drainage easement. It is recorded
with Settlers Ridge Section 1 as common area and easement. Mike McBride asked him
to label this on the plans. An easement will be required. Mr. Kutz stated Section 3 has
not been taken yet; but it is under contract. They will contact the current owner; it is not
a problem. Mike McBride needs a note on the plans describing, at north end of the street,
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the kind of temporary controls for road blockage, signage, drainage and erosion control to
be provided. Tom Kutz will put up a permanent barricade with an "End of Road" sign.
Mike McBride said that was acceptable. Mr. McBride asked Mr. Kutz to address their
comments in a letter to Engineering along with their revised submittal.
John South sent a letter. He is concerned with storm water runoff going to the northwest.
Tom Kutz responded they are not running any water there. It is all being collected in the
rear yard swale. Currently, the water goes northwest. Mr. Kutz said they have mass
graded that field and built the rear yard swales for Section 3. When they construct the
storm sewer, it will collect in there and be transported to the lake. John South asked for
an existing topo. Tom Kutz can provide the development plan that shows the existing
grade. An NOI has been submitted. Section 3 has not received secondary plat approval.
John South will reconsider their idea; the erosion control plan should also be reviewed.
A unique sequence for the site is necessary. Contractor maintenance must be described
in full detail. These guidelines are stated in the Indiana handbook. This must be
indicated on their plans.
Jim Blanchard had no comment.
Jim Foster indicated Gary Hoyt wrote a letter on this project. Lots 48 and 49 need an
emergency turn around. A stone surface is acceptable. Mr. Foster believes Sourwood
Lane will connect into an existing street. Mr. Kutz indicated that was correct.
Jon Dobosiewicz directed his comments toward the primary plat. At the intersection of
Tanbark and Sourwood, the petitioner needs to pin the tangent on the radius of the
curves. Addresses should be removed from the plats. Tom Kutz agreed to do so. Mike
Hollibaugh's name needs to be added to the Certification. On Page 1, "this instrument
prepared by" should be change to "surveyor "Developed by" should be changed to
"Owner /Subdivider Docket number 11 -94 PP must be added. A secondary plat docket
number will be assigned soon. A key map must be added to page 1. It will be the same
key as found on the face of the construction plans. The deed number should reflect the
source of the title. Laurence Lillig believes Haverstick is platted as a cluster subdivision.
The ordinance number is Z -201. Indicating this will help the Carmel inspectors during
their review. The dimension must be indicated at the southwest corner of the plat in
Common Area 3. Ed Fleming stated the storm sewer would be moved. Mr. Lillig thinks
the west line of the subdivision falls into the quarter section and the east and west
addresses look out of range. He wondered if Bill Akers is just making up for the mistake
of a predecessor. It cannot be fixed now. He will speak with Bill Akers. The range
should be between 5060 and 6300. Numbers appear to be a quarter mile off. Mr. Lillig
reinforced the previous suggestion to remove addresses on the plat.
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The Townhomes at Hazel Dell (Primary Plat)
Petitioner seeks approval to plat a ninety- nine -lot subdivision on 23.95 acres. The site is
located northwest of East 116 Street and Hazel Dell Parkway. The site is zoned
R2 /Residence.
Keith Lash, Schneider Corporation, introduced Ken Brassier and Paul Rioux, Platinum
Properties, and Jim Nelson, Nelson Frankenberger. Mr. Lash explained the primary
plat that has been filed for the 24 -acre parcel. It will contain 99 townhome units. They
will be very similar to the town homes being built by Ryland at the City Center. The site
is located at the northwest corner of 116 and Hazel Dell Parkway. The project was filed
formerly by Mark Stout as the Hazel Dell Ponds. That proposal was under review for
approximately one year. Platinum Property has acquired ownership. The project was
heard informally by subcommittee this month and at the Plan Commission last night.
The project will be heard again by the subcommittee in February. Mr. Lash has received
some comments from TAC members. There were no huge concerns. Their expectation
is to gather comments today, meet with individuals as needed, and address issues in the
next two weeks before returning to subcommittee.
Scott Brewer met the other day with petitioners. Most of his comments were shared with
them. Keith Lash will revise the plan. He requested a written response from Mr. Brewer.
Steve Cash stated this project does not impact a county drain.
Dick Hill understands this project will be heard again as a secondary plat and will return
to TAC if significant modifications are made. Mr. Hill referenced the Engineering
Department letter. At least two approvals will be required by the Board of Public Works.
Information regarding a commercial curb cut is needed. One will align with the future
park site and the other with Brighton Woods. Jon Dobosiewicz suggested a meeting with
the Park Department. He needs some correspondence to confirm that the Founders Park
location is acceptable for a cut. Mr. Hill believes the streets and storm sewers will be
private. Mike McBride will comment after he has seen the changes. Jon Dobosiewicz
will require a stub street from Lake Forest into the cul de sac. Mr. Hill wants to have that
right of way dedicated.
John South stated his comments are redundant from previous projects. He recommends
soil borings. A plan is needed to deal with the pond, fluctuating water levels, and the
impact of other developments and their own property. The banks need to be safe, stable,
and free from soil erosion. Mr. South requested a typical cross section of what they
propose to do. The plan does not show a drainage outlet for the existing pond. The
petitioner responded they would tie into the Hazel Dell storm sewer system or connect to
Lake Forest. Paul Rioux stated homeowners have requested the water be redirected to
them. They want water. Mr. South is concerned that a big flush of water would
temporarily raise but not sustain the water level. He wants the petitioner to consider
these implications. This might be a win /win situation. Keith Lash said the aquifer has
much greater flow capacity. Mr. South stated a 404 Water Quality Permit might be
needed. A description is needed for the intended would own the six western most acres
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of open space. The land will stay in its natural state except for the cul de sac and
drainage and utility easements. The old gravel road will be torn out, junk will be
removed, and grass and wild flower seeds will be sown. There is a foundation and
chimney. They need to be removed. Keith Lash stated a three -foot high retaining wall
would be constructed. They will get a higher mound.
Jim Blanchard asked the petitioner to contact him after final approval has been granted.
The permitting process takes two to three days.
Jim Foster referred to the letter written by Gary Hoyt on January 10, 2002. The cul de
sac to the north extends beyond the permitted length. Keith Lash will install grass pavers
and breakaway bollards. The location of hydrants is needed. Since these are private
streets, there is no provision to keep people from parking on them. However, the streets
are only 20 feet wide at intersections. Mr. Foster is concerned about turning fire
equipment. He asked if the subdivision covenants could prohibit street parking. Jon
Dobosiewicz wants a 36 -foot wide cut onto Hazel Dell Parkway. The individual units are
divided by walls. There will be brick fronts and some brick sides for those units exposed
to Hazel Dell Parkway. The buildings are three stories tall. There are no sprinkler
systems. Documentation for adequate turning radii was given to the petitioner. Keith
Lash will work with this.
Jon Dobosiewicz directed the petitioner to meet with the Parks Department to address the
location of the second driveway cut. It will be a full cut unto Hazel Dell Parkway. A
meeting is required to discuss architecture of the buildings; landscaping was discussed
earlier this week. Keith Lash previously stated plans would be amended to add grass
pavers and breakaway bollards to provide more access to the cul de sac in Lake Forest.
There must be 20 feet of driveable surface. He would like to work on the width of the
drive between the two cuts because of additional traffic anticipated. There is no potential
that these streets will be petitioned for acceptance into the City. Mr. Dobosiewicz does
not think the City will ever be asked to maintain the streets. He asked the petitioner to
address, in writing for the committee members, any plans for improvements to the
common areas. A total of 38 additional parking spaces are required. At the meeting last
night, a request was made for a cross section to illustrate views from Lake Forest into the
site. These should be prepared for the committee meeting on February 5 Laurence
Lillig thinks the secondary plat will divide the buildings into separate blocks. An access
easement will be required for the dedicated street. It should be dedicated to the public on
the secondary plat. The same disclaimer used for Mayflower Park, that forgoes the right
to petition for those to become private streets, can be written for this instance. Mr. Lillig
will provide the language and speak with Engineering to see how it is handled. He
understands the parking areas and the private street will be curbed. The homeowners of
Lake Forest have asked the petitioner to participate in the maintenance of the berm fence.
No decision has been reached. Paul Rioux estimates the fence is eight or ten feet tall.
Laurence Lillig stated it is a violation of the fence ordinance as it exceeds the height
allowed. Fence height is calculated from grade. The Department is not interested in
pursuing this, but Lake Forest can contact the City if they wish to explore the matter. Jim
Nelson recalled Lake Forest was approved under the Cluster Option. It was the first
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amendment to the Ordinance before it was appealed in July, 1994. The Fire Department
suggested prohibiting "on street" parking. At last night's meeting, a property owner to
the south mentioned a well problem. Mr. Lillig suggested the property owners along
116 Street be offered connection to City water. This might alleviate concerns about
their wells. There is a lost triangle, or parcel of ground on the northeast corner of this
property, that belongs to Ray Roehling's Brighton Woods Subdivision. Mr. Lillig
suggested acquiring it. By itself, the land cannot be developed.
The meeting adjourned at 10:38 a.m.
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