HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 04-09-021,1`I y G`'`y of Cq,9y C ity
CARMEL /CLAY PLAN COMMISSION
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
APRIL 9, 2002
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Subdivision Committee met at 7:00 PM in the Council
Chambers of City Hall. Members present were: Dan Dutcher, (late arrival) Linda Flanders;
Wayne Haney; Ron Houck; and Norma Meighen, thereby establishing a quorum. Marilyn
Anderson was in attendance as an ex- officio member.
The Department of Community Services staff in attendance: Mike Hollibaugh, Director; Jon
Dobosiewicz, and Building Commissioner Jeff Kendall.
1. Docket No. 127 -01 Z; U.S. Highway 31 146 Street PUD (Rezone)
Petitioner seeks favorable recommendation of a rezone from the B -3 (Business) and R -1
(Residence) districts to a PUD /planned unit development district on 56.79 acres. The site
is located at the southwest corner of US Highway 31 and East 146 Street.
Filed by Paul G. Reis of The Reis Law Firm for the Lauth Property Group.
Paul Reis, attorney, The Reis Law Firm, appeared before the Committee representing the
applicant. Also present: Joe Downs, Lauth Property Group; Jeff Gunning, Vice President of
RTKL Assoc., Architects; Matt Brown of A F Engineering; and Jeff Clayton of American
Consulting Engineers.
The petitioner is proposing a rezone of 56 acres located at the southwest corner of US Highway
31 and 146 Street to a Planned Unit Development. The property is located within a Tax
Incremental Financing District approved by Hamilton County and the City of Carmel. The "TIF"
District was set up to facilitate the construction of certain roadways, one of which is the extension
of Range Line Road from US 31 north to 146 Street that will go through the middle of this
project.
At this time, the tenants for this particular project have not been identified; therefore, a conceptual
site plan is being presented as to how the real estate can be developed under the PUD. Following
the rezone and when the developer is in a position to start construction, the developer will return
to the Plan Commission for a definitive Development Plan, specific architectural design, lighting,
landscaping and signage for the actual buildings to be constructed at that time.
The applicant has had extensive meetings with the Department staff to address some of the issues
raised by the staff and the committee, as well as the full Commission, in an effort to further refine
S: \P1anCommission\ Minutes\ SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes \2002apr 1
the conceptual design of this project. Additionally, Lauth Property Group and the Traffic
Engineers have been in contact with the Department Staff, John Myers, traffic consultant,
Hamilton County, State of Indiana, and Parsons Brinckerhoff, engineering firm currently studying
US 31 and its improvements so that the various traffic issues for this project can be addressed. At
this point, the applicant fully expects to resolve these issues within the next few weeks.
Additionally, the reforestation plan and landscape requirements are close to being finalized with
Scott Brewer, Urban Forester.
Jeff Gunning of RTKL Associates presented an up -dated conceptual plan showing how the PUD
Ordinance can be implemented to create a unique, up -scale retail and mixed use development for
Carmel. Again, the plan is conceptual in nature at this point; the actual buildings will be shown at
the time of construction.
Jon Dobosiewicz commented the goal of this meeting this evening is to address architectural
standards or aesthetic characteristics of the development. The language in this particular PUD is
similar to Merchants' Pointe in that the Plan Commission forwarded a recommendation to the
Council to adopt a rezone, and the individual buildings came back to the Commission for ADLS
approval. Section 6.5, Items A through D, outline the standards as far as the direction required
for the design of the buildings. The buildings look very close, but it allows the developer
flexibility with each building with articulated base, mid section, and cornice design, similar if not
identical to what has been presented. Without having a specific tenant, it is not possible to show
what each tenant space or building will look like today.
John Myers will examine commitments specific to roadway improvements and render a written
report. The landscaping and reforestation plans have been reviewed and found to be appropriate
and acceptable. Ultimately, the roadway design and configuration may not be the option that the
State would most like to see, but from an economic development position, that is not responsible
planning on the Department's part. There are options available from a reasonable engineering
standpoint to allow connections of ramps through the system.
Ron Houck questioned whether or not this project would require re- noticing because of the
design changes. Jon Dobosiewicz assured the Commission that re- notice was not required.
Wayne Haney asked if there was to be continuity in colors and materials in the development. Paul
Reis responded that a specific color palate would not be included in the ordinance; however, each
building will return to the Commission for ADLS review. The proposed development differs from
Merchants Square in terms of continuity; the proposed concept is both consistent and allows for
individual expression of tenants in unique design.
Marilyn Anderson asked if the Commission had flexibility in approving the plan if this particular
developer were no longer involved and another developer stepped in —would the ADLS review
take care of that?
Jon Dobosiewicz responded that based on the design criteria within the Ordinance, the Plan
Commission maintains a great deal of subjectivity. The petitioner is willing to subject himself to
ADLS review in the future, with a specific level of predictability contained in items A through D
S:\P1anCommission\ Minutes\ SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes \2002apr 2
in Section 6.5 of the proposed Ordinance. There are specific design requirements that need to be
adhered to. What the Ordinance affords the Plan Commission is a starting point.
Marilyn Anderson suggested that as buildings come before the Commission for approval,
buildings on either side should also be shown so that continuity is preserved and there will be no
clashes in design.
This item will have further review at the May 14 Committee meeting.
2. Docket No. 151 -01 PP Amend; Spring Run Estates, Section 1
The applicant seeks approval to amend Spring Run Estates, Section 1 Subdivision to
exclude Block A as identified on the plat. The site is generally located at the northeast
corner of West 106 Street and Crooked Stick Lane. The site is zoned S -1 /Residence.
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates for Glenn E. Christian.
TABLED TO MAY
3. Docket No. 159 -01 PP; The Townhomes at Hazel Dell
Petitioner seeks approval to plat a ninety nine -lot subdivision on 23.95± acres. The site is
located northwest of East 116 Street and Hazel Dell Parkway. The site is zoned R-
2 /Residence.
The petitioner also seeks approval of the following Subdivision Waivers:
159 -01a SW SCO 7. 0.1 Minimum distance between units of 6'
159 -01b SW SCO 7.6.3
159 -01c SW SCO 6.3.20
159 -01d SW SCO 6.3.24
159 -01e SW SCO 6.5.1
Minimum width of 75' for Open Space
Every Residential subdivided property shall be
served from a public street
Frontage Place exceeds 600' and does not terminate
at street
Minimum lot frontage of 50' at right -of -way line.
Filed by Paul Rioux of Platinum Properties.
Paul Rioux appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Keith Lash, Schneider
Engineering, was also in attendance.
Mr. Rioux reported that the question of Notice that was raised at the Plan Commission meeting in
March has been rectified by staff and it was determined that proper notice was given. Mr. Rioux
reviewed changes thus far. The land plan, the product, and financial concessions of the developer
were highlighted. The applicant has agreed not to connect adjoining roadways to Brookfield and
Lake Forest. The density has been reduced from 104 to 99 and then to 97; the building count has
been reduced from 20 to 18, removing two buildings from the south end of the parcel. The site
has been designed so that no garages, driveways and roadways are visible by Lake Forest
residents in the southern portion of the site, and the buildings have been increased in separation
from 25 feet to 65 feet.
The townhomes now have significant brick added to almost every building on site and on exposed
areas. Offsets have been created to emphasize the individual home character of the buildings to
S:\P1anCommission\ Minutes\ SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes \2002apr 3
create a home rather than apartment style feel. The applicant has committed to abide by
additional staff architectural recommendations as well as add shutters to all windows on all sides
of the buildings. There are also specific lighting commitments. Various financial or neighborhood
concessions include adding 400 feet of 10 foot fencing on different parts of the site to add to the
buffer. The applicant agrees to clean up and grade and seed 6 acres of the north property to make
it a park -like setting. The applicant agrees to provide easements or storm lines for the continuing
flow of water to the Lake Forest Lakes through the Townhomes property. The applicant agrees
to pay for one -half of the cost of providing the water through the Townhomes HOA. Scott
Brewer has agreed to allow the location of some of the plant material to the Lake Forest and
Brookfield sides of the property to an area that would be a more significant buffer for the
neighbors. Scott Brewer also agreed that the quantities of trees was so great that size could be
replaced with quantity, for example, on the west side of the berm, (Mr. Pursel's property) as well
as the common area of Lake Forest. Finally, the north versus south issue, the north property has
27 homes that directly abut this property-27 homes whose backyards, decks, patios,
playgrounds, basketball courts, surround this 6 acres. The south end of the property has three
homes that directly abut this property: Mr. Pursel, the home that faces 116 Street, and Lot 15.
The alternative uses of the site include development of the entire parcel as a manner to offset the
contentious nature of the plan. The roadways to adjoining neighborhoods are not connected.
Department Report, Jon Dobosiewicz asked the Committee to make a clear determination based
upon evidence provided whether or not notice has been provided pursuant to the requirements of
the Rules of Procedure. If this notice has been accomplished, the Committee should consider the
intent of the Commission in sending this item back to Committee—if it was to afford those
persons in Brighton Woods an opportunity to comment, that should be done at this time. If there
is no new information, this item should be returned to the full Commission.
Jon Dobosiewicz said the properties required to be noticed were confirmed. There was one
individual who now understands why he did not receive notice.
Ron Houck narrowed the concerns to safety for emergency vehicles and density. Jon
Dobosiewicz said he had personally spoken with Gary Hoyt of the Carmel Fire Dept. and City
Engineer Kate Weese —they have no further concerns with this plan. There were significant
changes to the plan to accommodate issues of the Fire Dept. and revised plans have been
approved. At Secondary Platting stage, another review letter will be issued by the Fire Dept. and
the Engineer's Office to determine whether or not there should be any modifications to the plan.
Wayne Haney asked for an opinion from the Department regarding City Councilor Norm
Rundle's opinion of the waiver of the six -foot requirement separation between units that may
constitute defacto zoning. Jon Dobosiewicz was respectful of Mr. Rundle's position and opinion,
however, the Plan Commission has the authority to grant the waiver. The waiver process has been
used in the past for proposals. If the Commission feels the waivers are warranted, the Department
feels it is appropriate.
The proposal was discussed at length —the likes and dislikes of the adjacent neighbors, and how
the property could be developed. Each of the waivers was discussed as well as alternatives. Mr.
S:\P1anCommission\ Minutes\ SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes \2002apr 4
Rioux said that ANY proposal on this parcel would generate remonstrance. Mr. Rioux discussed
revisions under the requirements, and the pros and cons of those changes. The questions is what
is best for the site, not what can be built that will make the crowd go away. Structures on Hazel
Dell are not all two -story homes —the water plant is on Hazel Dell.
Ron Houck asked for comments from three residents picked at random as to HOW they would
like to see this piece of land developed not IF it is going to be developed. Here ensued
considerable discussion and a show of hands as to what the adjoining residents would support in
the way of development on this parcel.
Remonstrators:
Chuck Voght, 5160 Clear Lake Court, Lake Forest, was concerned about the homes being only
50 feet apart, and no place for children to play.
Steve Wolford, 5196 Clear Lake Court, Lake Forest, thought the basic premise the Commission
was operating under was incorrect and likened the development to buying a slow horse—it is not
up to the Plan Commission to bail out the developer. Simply say "No."
Bill Marshall, 5246 Lake Pointe Drive, has tracked this land for three years and no one
supported the previous proposal by Mark Stout. Paul Rioux's current, overall plan is acceptable
to 25 to 30 adjacent homeowners. Whatever is presented will not be acceptable to all residents,
but a number of adjacent residents do support the current development with landscape buffer and
fence as proposed.
Bill Brooks, 11737 Lake Forest Parkway, president HOA, commented Mayor Brainard had
appeared at their Homeowner's meeting and said there was consideration for purchasing this
piece of land.
Ron Houck asked that the Committee send this item back to the full Commission with a re-
affirmative vote.
Norma Meighen moved to forward Townhomes at Hazel Dell, Docket No. 159 -01 PP, to the full
Commission without further action. The motion died for lack of a second.
Linda Flanders moved to recommend approval of Townhomes at Hazel Dell, Docket No. 159 -01
PP, to the full Commission with modifications.
Chuck Voght raised a point of order for the previous motion made by Norma Meighen and
requested a vote. Ron Houck reported under Robert's Rules of Order, the motion died for lack
of a second and no further outbursts from the public will be tolerated by the Chair!)
There was discussion on Linda Flanders' motion as to the modifications. Mr. Rioux repeated the
modifications of the design as displacing two buildings from the south to the north of the
property, and reducing the density from 97 units to 87 units. (The changes do not affect the
waivers being requested.) Linda Flanders than re- stated her motion for approval with
modifications as stated. Following a second by Dan Dutcher, the motion was denied by a vote of
S:\P1anCommission\ Minutes\ SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes \2002apr 5
3 in favor, Wayne Haney and Norma Meighen opposed. MOTION DENIED.
Jon Dobosiewicz commented that it would be clear to the Commission if this item were sent back
to them with "No Recommendation."
Linda Flanders then moved to re -send Docket No. 159 -01 PP, Townhomes at Hazel Dell, to
the full Commission with the revision effectively reducing the number of units from 97 to
87) with "No Recommendation." Following a second by Dan Dutcher, the motion was
APPROVED 4 in favor, Wayne Haney opposed.
Following a 5- minute recess, the meeting continued.
Note: Wayne Haney and Dan Dutcher did not return to the meeting.
NOTE: Items 4, 5, 6 were heard together.
4. Docket No. 10 -02 Z; Village of West Clay Rezone
The petitioner seeks approval to rezone an area on the West side of Towne Road (within
the existing PUD) from Secondary Area to Primary Area. The site is generally located at
the southwest corner of West 131 Street and Towne Road. The site is zoned
PUD /Planned Unit Development.
Filed by Jose Kreutz of Brenwick TND Communities, LLC.
5. Docket No. 11 -02 OA; Village of West Clay PUD Text Amendment
Petitioner seeks favorable recommendation of a text amendment to a PUD /planned unit
development district. The site is generally located at the southeast corner of West 131
Street and Towne Road. The site is zoned PUD /Planned Unit Development.
Filed by Jose Kreutz of Brenwick TND Communities, LLC.
6. Docket No. 12 -02 PP Amend; Village of West Clay Primary Plat Amendment
Petitioner seeks approval of an amendment to the Primary Plat for an area of the Village of
West Clay on the west side of Towne Road. The site is generally located at the southwest
corner of West 131 Street and Towne Road. The site is zoned PUD /Planned Unit
Development.
Filed by Jose Kreutz of Brenwick TND Communities, LLC.
George Sweet appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also in attendance was
Jose Kreutz of Brenwick. The new plan contemplates an additional 50 lots. The old plan had 90,
80 -foot wide lots, and 47, 100 -foot wide lots. In effect, these were "Estate Lots" and not subject
to the 19 century architecture. The current plan has 187 lots (50 additional) typical lot
measuring 50 to 65 square feet with a minimum lot of 45 square feet.
The open space increases from 16 acres to 19.6 acres. The old plan contemplated frontage roads
on all three sides, while the new plan contemplates lots where the side of the home offers a more
attractive side than the front of the home. The impact along Towne Road and 131 Street and
126 Street would be improved. Another change is 15 homes that would have been along Towne
S:\P1anCommission\ Minutes\ SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes \2002apr 6
Road to approximately 7 homes. Basically, all of the garages are not facing the street; the homes
are served by an alley. In modifying the southeast corner of 131S Street and Towne Road,
townhomes have been removed because the brownstones by Ryland have moved closer in to the
Village Center and the density in this quadrant has been reduced by 33 lots. A church could be
allowed on this site and still be a part of the Village—should that be the case, 20 lots would be
lost, so there is no density change.
As to the Rezone, it is because it is a use change and would convert from the Estate area to the
Village area or secondary to a primary area. The 19 century architecture would be on both sides
of Towne Road.
As to the text amendments, there are editorial or scrivener changes in nature and miscellaneous
changes. One change is permitting a filling station (currently allowed) to offer repair services
(currently not allowed). The amendment would also allow the expansion of home based offices.
The third change is the creation of two sub districts within the primary area, currently all mixed
use.
Another change is a round -about at 131S and Towne Road and one at 126 and Towne. Mr.
Sweet displayed a concept drawing. Towne Road improvements would begin one year after the
first plat is recorded on the land west of Towne Road.
Mr. Sweet confirmed that the lighting situation at the Village would be resolved. There will still
be the glow, but the illumination will be lower.
Jon Dobosiewicz referred to the Department Report. The timing of the improvements in regard
to roadway improvements at 126 and Towne Road should be required in commitment format.
The Department would like time to sit down with the petitioner and make sure the County
Highway Department, the petitioner, and the Department are all on the same page.
Jose Kreutz appeared before the Committee and offered copies of correspondence with the
County on the issue of Towne Road and the approach. There is a letter from the County
Highway Department indicating their views and that of the petitioner are significantly different.
The Department of Community Services also wrote a letter in November 2001 proposing Towne
Road be constructed similar to what was done on Hazel Dell Parkway, with street trees,
pedestrian friendly, etc. The main point is that the petitioner does not see eye -to -eye with the
County on the issue of Towne Road and Brenwick does not agree with the two round abouts at
the corner of their development. The proposal to the County will probably be that the Inter -local
agreement allow the design issue to be wrestled away from the County to the City Engineer.
Brenwick's commitment remains unvaried.
Public Input:
Antonia Guererro, 2424 West 131S Street, northwest corner of 131S Street and Towne Road,
asked the Commission to look at Bleak Street and the other street coming in from the north on
131S Street into the proposed commercial area. This will become a very busy, commercial area.
Ms. Guererro said her property has not been under any consideration for annexation. Ms.
S:\P1anCommission\ Minutes\ SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes \2002apr 7
Guererro asked the Commission to look very closely at the "Church Zone" in exchange for more
density and recommended letting the church take care of itself churches are beautiful but create
unnecessary problems. Towne Road is a heavily traveled road and a commercial area would
increase traffic further.
Tom Neal, 2555 West 131S Street, had 3 or 4 points. Mr. Neal does not object to the
architecture of the proposal but does object to the density. Mr. Neal requested a visual screening
from the garage doors that will face his property and requests this commitment in writing. Mr.
Neal is very concerned about the lighting proposal.
Docket Nos. 10 -02 Z, Village of West Clay, Rezone, 11 -02 OA, Village of West Clay PUD,
Text Amendment, and 12 -02 PP Amend, Village of West Clay, Primary Plat Amendment,
will remain at Subdivision Committee for further review on May 14, 2002.
7. Docket No. 19 -02 PP; Western Hills Subdivision (Primary Plat)
The applicant seeks approval to plat a 101 -lot residential subdivision on 80± acres. The
site is located on the southeast corner of West 141S Street and West Road. The site is
zoned S -1 /Residential.
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates, Inc. for Platinum Properties
LLC.
Jim Shinaver, attorney with Nelson Frankenberger, Paul Rioux of Platinum Properties, and
Doug Westland of Stoeppelwerth Assoc. appeared before the Committee representing the
applicant.
Primary Plat approval is being requested for 80 acres located in western Clay Township. The
parcel is bordered by 141S Street to the north and West Road to the west. This property is to be
developed pursuant to the Residential Open Space. Under ROSO, open space required is 16% or
12 acres; the open space provided by the plat is 40% or 32 acres. The plat consists of 101 lots
and is actually 9 fewer lots than could be achievable under ROSO. It is anticipated that the price
range of the homes would be $400,000.
Mr. Rioux submitted the landscape plan and site context for review by Scott Brewer, Urban
Forester, and there has been some conversation between Paul Rioux, Doug Westland and Scott
Brewer. The proposed commitments regarding roadway improvements have been submitted to
the Hamilton County Highway and the applicant is awaiting a response.
The applicant is requesting that any approval be conditioned upon the following: 1) resolution of
any outstanding comments from Scott Brewer regarding the landscape plan; 2) resolution of any
comments resulting from the Highway Department regarding proposed highway improvements.
Jon Dobosiewicz reported that the County Highway has received the commitments requested by
the Department. Their request is now for clarification on some points. The Department is
recommending this item be forwarded to the full Commission for the April 23r meeting for
consideration, pending resolution and final preparation of the recorded instrument for roadway
improvements and a favorable recommendation from Scott Brewer.
S:\P1anCommission\ Minutes\ SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes \2002apr 8
Public Input:
Judith Beaver, 13604 Shelborne Road, said 136 Street does not exist and there is no access to it.
Jerry Brown, 13630 Shelborne Road, property owner directly across from the proposed
subdivision, said he had not received written notice of the proposal. Mr. Brown also agreed with
Judith Beaver, 136 shown on the map is actually a driveway. Mr. Brown mentioned that lights
are not a problem, but there is certainly noise pollution (heavy equipment, dump trucks,
construction traffic, etc.)
Paul Riox said the 136 Street is a reference point, not an actual street. Mr. Rioux also said he
had committed to street lights at the 141S Street entrance and the West Street entrance —there are
no internal street lights.
Linda Flanders moved to recommend approval of Docket No. 19 -02 PP, Western Hills
Subdivision (Primary Plat) to the full Commission. The motion was seconded by Marilyn
Anderson, ex- officio, and APPROVED 4 -0.
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at
11:00 P.M.
Ron Houck, Acting Chairperson
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
S:\P1anCommission\ Minutes\ SubdivisionCommitteeMinutes \2002apr 9