HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 12-03-021,1`I y G`'`y of Cq,9y C o
CARMEL /CLAY PLAN COMMISSION
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
DECEMBER 3, 2002
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Subdivision Committee met at 7:00 PM on
December 3, 2002 in the Caucus Rooms of City Hall, Carmel, Indiana.
Members present: Stephanie Blackman; Dave Cremeans, Chairperson; Wayne Haney;
Ron Houck; and Norma Meighen. Marilyn Anderson attended the meeting as an ex-
officio member.
Jon Dobosiewicz attended the Subdivision Committee meeting on behalf of the
Department of Community Services.
The Subdivision Committee considered the following items:
1. Docket No. 152 -02 PP; Cherry Creek Estates (Primary Plat)
The applicant seeks approval to plat a 273 -lot residential subdivision on 149.562 acres.
The site is located on the east side of Hazel Dell Parkway north and south of Cherry Tree
Road. The site is zoned S -1 /Residential –Low Intensity.
152 -02a SW SCO 6.3.7 maximum cul -de -sac length of 600'
152 -02b SW SCO 7.5.7 clearing of woodland areas
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates, Inc. for Platinum Properties.
Jim Nelson, attorney appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also present was
Paul Rioux, Platinum Properties.
Jim Nelson stated that the plat meets or exceeds Zoning Ordinance and is compatible with
Delaware Trace, Spring Green and Haverstick Estates. The petitioner has met with the City
Engineer, the Department of Community Services, and Scott Brewer, Urban Forester; all
concerns have been addressed at this point.
The plat provides for 271 lots on a 149.5 -acre parcel —two lots less than the old plan. Some of
the re- design ended up losing two lots. The density computes to 1.8 units per acre and is the
threshold density set forth in the Zoning Ordinance and the Open Space Ordinance for the S -1
District. Based upon the Open Space Ordinance, the property could be developed into as many as
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300 lots, however, the petitioner has chosen to develop at the lower end of the density spectrum.
Another area of interest was the entrance. The plan provides for a single entrance into Cherry
Creek Estates from Haverstick and would be aligned with the Avian Glen entrance on the
opposite side of Hazel Dell.
Connection to three, existing stubs: 2 from Haverstick Estates, one northward of Delaware Trace.
When those properties were developed, the streets were stubbed into Cherry Creek Estates.
Under the Ordinance, the developer is required to connect to the existing stubs.
While the developments to the east will certainly inherit some of the traffic from Cherry Creek
Estates, Cherry Creek will also inherit some of theirs, if they choose to go northward or westward
when the collector street is constructed along the north property line of Cherry Creek.
The traffic has been addressed in a letter to the Committee from Steve Fehribach, Traffic
Consultant with A &F Engineering.
The Development Plan provides for the construction of a new collector roadway running
eastward from the entrance at Hazel Dell, parallel and adjacent to the north property line. The
roadway will have the appearance of a residential street, even though designed as a collector. The
collector roadway provides an opportunity for a direct connection between Hazel Dell, River
Road to the east, and 146 Street to the north.
The final design of the collector roadway has now been received. Extending south from the north
property line of Cherry Creek Estates, there will be a 20 -foot buffer. The existing street line that
runs parallel with the north property line can be preserved. The 20 -foot buffer is in addition to
another 30 feet along the north side of the property line in the Spring Creek development. So,
between the rear of the nearest lot and the first edge of the right -of -way is 50 feet. So, in effect,
there is a 20 -foot buffer, an 18 -foot lane, a 24 -foot median, another 18 -foot lane, and a 4 -foot
separation between the curb and 10 -foot multi -use path. The roadway is far greater than needed
to serve this single development. The roadway has been included in the design and the petitioner
has agreed to pay for it —the reason is that it is required. It was presented to the developer that
the plan had to be consistent with the City Thoroughfare Plan; thus the roadway has been
provided. As a part of this development, the petitioner is providing the first leg of the collector
roadway leading from Hazel Dell Parkway to the east -end of Cherry Tree Estates.
The homes being offered in Cherry Creek Estates are by Pulte, an experienced Carmel builder.
Pulte will be the exclusive builder in Cherry Creek Estates. The price range will be between
$300,000 and $500,000 plus; the size will be 1800 square feet to 3200 square feet plus. Two
styles of homes are being provided, patio homes and traditional, two story, three -car garage and
basement.
There were some issues raised in regard to landscaping and tree preservation. Those issues were
dealt with in a series of meetings with the Staff and Scott Brewer as well as employees of Vine
and Branch. At the far western end of the site is an approximate 19 -acre stand of trees that
provides a great buffer along Hazel Dell. The second largest issue was the perimeter treatment to
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handle drainage and utilities. An entire row of homes in the woods and the private frontage road
have been eliminated—in doing so, 5 acres of mature woods on the west end of the property has
been added. At this point, there are 350 to 400 feet of preserved woods along Hazel Dell
Parkway. In addition, Vine and Branch has been employed to put up protective fencing in terms
of tree preservation measures.
Department Comments, Jon Dobosiewicz. The Department has listed all concerns in the
Department Report; those have also been listed in the minute from the Plan Commission meeting
of November 19. There is also a list of concerns expressed by the adjoining subdivisions —most
notably Spring Green, Haverstick, Avian Glen to the west and Delaware Trace to the south. The
30 foot landscaping strip between the lots within the Subdivision and the property line is owned
and maintained by the HOA for Spring Creek as well as a 3 to 4 foot asphalt trail from the
entrance on Hazel Dell to Cherry Tree Road.
There is a letter on file from the School Corporation stating no concerns with regard to the
development. The school's position is that those properties within the City jurisdiction are going
to be developed pursuant to the underlying zoning and as that occurs, the School responds to that
occurrence and plans accordingly.
The traffic flow through adjacent neighborhoods has been addressed. It would not be appropriate
planning for the City to eliminate stub streets from the adjoining subdivisions and not have them
connect to this development. Jon Dobosiewicz said he had met with the Spring Creek
neighborhood group and they may request that the developer provide additional buffer in addition
to the 20 -foot area. It is probably appropriate that the developer would provide some
enhancement to the existing tree line, particularly as you would travel east from Hazel Dell
Parkway and turn back to the east —there may be a situation of headlights in the rear of their
yards along this segment of road. The Department would support a request from the residents
and ask the developer to commit to install a six -foot stockade fence along that portion of road, in
addition to providing additional tree plantings in the area where the fence is not needed. It is not
a concern about a solid barrier where there are headlights to be reckoned with. Additional
plantings are recommended between the existing Cherry Tree Road and where the fence would
end in the way of evergreens 15 to 20 feet on center. The proximity of the pathway is within the
common area; the Alternative Transportation Plan requires 10 -foot asphalt paths along collector
roadways throughout the Township and the entire community. It is appropriate to have pathways
adjacent to streets. The new road has been on the Comprehensive Plan for the City since 1985.
As a part of constructing this development, the developer will be required to install a dedicated
left onto Hazel Dell so that southbound motorists on Hazel Dell will not be competing with the
through lane. There will be a decel lane on Hazel Dell to head right into this development.
Before the Committee forwards this item to the Plan Commission, Jon Dobosiewicz would like to
see specifics on the 20 -foot buffer between Spring Creek and the proposed roadway. There is a
grass median proposed and the Department would like to see the developer install plantings within
the median similar to other sections of Hazel Dell.
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Regarding future construction traffic, there is no immediate answer, however it would be
expected that they would access this site via Hazel Dell onto the new collector road, the most
direct point of access. Can we ask them to commit to something? Yes, but it would be
meaningless —they would be committing someone whom they do not know who is the contractor
that drops off materials. It just works that the trucks use no other than the most direct route.
Jim Nelson said the petitioner had provided a written commitment to be signed and recorded and
will encumber the property. The only thing not available at that time was the specific detail on the
road.
Additional lighting—it is the Department's understanding that the developer is proposing dusk to
dawn lights and coach lights on homes within the subdivision. The City does not have a
requirement to provide additional streetlights. However, at some point in the future, the City may
want to install streetlights within its own right -of -way. At this point, the developer has not
submitted a proposed sign package for the development. The Department would see that as an
ADLS Amendment.
The lots that are 60X100 square feet are concentrated in a central location in the development.
Similar homes are being constructed in Fishers and they are mostly all brick, ranches and single
and one -half stories that are geared toward empty nesters; however, there is no penalty for the
prohibition against families. In addition, the Plan Commission can observe the types of product
homes at Long Branch Estates at Shelborne Road and 116 Street.
The TAC minutes for this development were emailed to Commission members.
The areas of tress proposed for removal, numbers of acres, etc. —the Plan Commission members
have decided there has been adequate explanation of those issues. The petitioner did note that
they re- oriented additional lots and reduced by two. Scott Brewer and the Department have met
with the developer in getting additional information and where tree areas could be provided. The
Department believes the developer has gone to great lengths to accommodate the concerns of the
intent behind the Ordinance and the preservation of woodland areas. The tree study was mailed
to the Committee members directly by the petitioner. In addition, there is a request for
information with regard to wildlife re- location. This is not a requirement set forth in the
Ordinance; however, the petitioner had their consultant prepare some information with regard to
wildlife re- location and it was presented to Committee members. This should not be considered as
a part of the Committee deliberations.
Steve Fehribach addressed the committee and answered questions regarding traffic.
Marilyn Anderson commented that she was definitely in favor of keeping the Osage Orange Trees
rather than clearing all of them.
Paul Rioux responded that there is a section of mature woods that is full of trees that are
considered to be less than good trees. The site plan contains almost 40% open space and there
are probably 40 lots less than allowed. The large home sites with high value homes will be 90-
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foot lots. We can't save all of the trees. We understand the concept of ROSO and it behooves us
as good developers who will probably be returning before the Plan Commission to meet with
Scott Brewer, hire Vine and Branch, meet with staff and the neighbors and try to accommodate
all this. At some point, we must say that we think we are doing quite a bit—we have tried very
hard to get the perimeter trees to work because of the drainage.
Rick Schue, 5271 Comanche Trail, concerned with the density and the height level of the
development.
Frank McLanan, 5345 Rippling Brook Way, and area residents were concerned with the road and
the width of the buffer-20 feet is not very much. Mr. McLanan has met with Jon Dobosiewicz
and is anxious to meet with Paul Rioux to come to some agreement on an adequate buffer that the
community would be pleased with.
Chris Foote, 14385 Avian Glen, concerned with the placement of a traffic light on the new
roadway and headlights; also concern regarding the high traffic volume and school children in the
area.
Jon Dobosiewicz responded that it is the City's obligation, as it was with the construction of
Hazel Dell to enhance the improvements along Hazel Dell to accommodate the additional traffic.
The best information the Department has to rely upon is the traffic professional that has been
hired by the consultant and their ability to interface with the City Engineer to come up with the
most appropriate level of improvement to accommodate the traffic.
Paulette Moore, 14386 Avian Way, has done a personal car count and must wait while 40 cars
pass by in the morning before she can get out of her subdivision to turn right onto Hazel Dell.
Jeff Wallace, 5264 Arapaho, concern with traffic trying to make a left turn onto a road that is
already backed up and traffic will be cutting through Delaware Trace, out to the creek and then
131S Street. At 7:30 in the morning, traffic will cut through Delaware Trace. Mr. Wallace also
expressed concern with density in the proposed development as opposed to Delaware Trace.
Jon Dobosiewicz explained the layout and alignment of the streets /intersections. It is important
that the public understands the foresight and planning that goes into these exercises. When a
project comes before the Plan Commission, it is not a done deal. However, the Department has
already invested a lot of resources and time as well as fire department, police, utilities, developer,
etc. It is not that the public does not have input, we do listen, but we listen where it is
appropriate.
Paul Rioux gave further explanation. They have worked very hard to comply with the Ordinances
and have no choice but to connect to five stub streets. Residents in Delaware Trace don't want
these people to drive through, and that is understandable. The fact is —there is a stub street there
that we are required to connect.
Margaret Schue, Comanche Trail in Delaware Trace, was concerned with wildlife habitat and
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increased traffic.
Dave Cremeans commented that the City Engineer's office would not have approved the road if
they had not addressed traffic numbers, traffic lights, etc.
Docket No. 152 -02 PP, Cherry Creek Estates (Primary Plat) was continued to the January 7,
2003 meeting.
2. Docket No. 149 -02 DP Amend; Providence at Old Meridian
(Development Plan Amendment)
The applicant seeks approval of an amendment to the approved Development Plan for
Providence at Old Meridian. The site is located at the northeast corner of West Carmel
Drive and Old Meridian Avenue.
Filed by the Buckingham Companies.
David Leazenby, Buckingham Companies appeared before the Committee representing the
applicant. Gary Murray, Paul I. Cripe Engineering was also present.
Informational packets were previously submitted to the Committee members and included the
lighting plan and building elevations. At this time, the petitioner is requesting an amendment to
the Development Plan to facilitate the layout for Townhomes in addition to the apartments. The
standards of the Ordinance will be maintained, but the change in layout requires changes in the
type of lighting, signage. The number of units has been adjusted downward to a total of 230
units. The open space has increased, and the recreational space has increased 5% and the number
of parking spaces has been increased by 108.
Committee Questions /Comments:
Ron Houck: What exactly does the supplement address?
Gary Murray, Cripe Engineering responded that one item to be addressed was a screen between
Twin Oaks on the original construction plans that had been added to the previous development
plan. Spruce Trees were added. Also, the recreational space was increased by 10% as opposed
to the original layout. The initial landscape plan has been supplemented by foundation plantings,
one tree per unit, ten shrubs and one tree to the back of the units, and two car garages. The same
two colors of brick will be utilized along with Hardy plank. There will be striping in the area
behind the maintenance building. The curb will be cut and a handicap ramp installed; the detail is
included. Each unit will have a dusk to dawn light at the rear where the garages are located. The
street lights will be 150 watts on a 20 -foot pole. The highest foot candle limit for the street light
is 1.9 foot candles; 1.2 for the dusk to dawn lights. The species of plant materials to be used for
foundation plantings need to be worked out with the Urban Forester.
Most of the information submitted to the Department earlier addresses the nine issues in the
Department Report.
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Department Comments, Jon Dobosiewicz. One thing of note is that the first rendering does not
cite the building number. One question is the second access drive —the building on either side of
the street —the Department would like to see those two buildings placed tangent into the curve of
the road rather than a straight line. The buildings will then be parallel with the curve in the street.
The school will dedicate right -of -way to the other half of the street.
This petition is an amendment to the preliminary development plan. The final site construction
drawings will return to the TAC committee for further review, January or February, and the
Department, through the PUD, has approval of the final Development Plan. What is being looked
at now is the concept and schematic of changing what would have been apartments that would
never have returned to Committee or Commission to townhomes that require an amendment to
the Development Plan. Two things most important for the Commission to look at are the
renderings of the proposed buildings and are those consistent with the design character and theme
of the balance of the development.
Ron Houck made formal motion to forward Docket No. 149 -02 DP Amend, Providence at Old
Meridian (Development Plan Amendment) to the full Commission with a favorable
recommendation, seconded by Wayne Haney, Approved 5 -0.
3. Docket No. 151 -02 PP; The Villas at Sweet Charity Farms (Primary Plat)
The applicant seeks approval to plat a 54 -lot residential subdivision on 38.01 acres. The
site is located on the south side of 141S Street 1/8 mile east of Towne Road. The site is
zoned S -1 /Residence Estate.
Filed by Rich Kelly of EMH &T for Justus Home Builders, Inc.
Chris White, Consultant for Justus Homes appeared before the Committee representing the
applicant. Also in attendance: Rich Kelly and Walt Justus.
This project is to be known as Westwood Estates, a name not in conflict with other projects. At
the public hearing, three concerns were brought up; location of the street stub, the buffering
between Westwood and neighboring properties, and drainage.
The plan has now been revised to provide for the relocation of the street stub as close to the cul-
de -sac as possible, approximately 175 feet to the west as far as possible. With the change in the
street stub, storm pipes have been extended to the street stub and additional inlet added so that
all the drainage is now being picked up by Westwood storm drainage and routed to the pond.
The landscaping has been increased by almost 50% and at the request of the Department, another
17 shade trees have been added along the perimeter. Regarding street improvements, an estimate
has been provided to the Department as well as a commitment that the petitioner will work with
them to do other off -site improvements up to the dollar amount, including widening of the road to
the east. No street lights are being proposed —there will be dusk -to -dawn lights on each lot.
Department Comments, Jon Dobosiewicz. The developer has addressed many of the issues
brought up at public hearing. There are some additional points of concern.
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Mrs. Andy Crook, adjacent homeowner, was in attendance. Ms. Crook said she had met with the
developer. The drainage issue has apparently been addressed.
Jon Dobosiewicz suggested that a letter be submitted from the property owner to the south
stating that he does not anticipate developing his ground, but if he does subdivide, that property
owner would construct that segment of the stub street within the right -of -way of the subdivision
and not require the developer to build it today.
Ron Houck expressed concern with the size of the development and the number of retention
ponds on site —three ponds on 38 acres. There would be an annual burden for the maintenance of
open space for only 54 lots/homeowners.
Jon Dobosiewicz responded that if the development didn't need 3 ponds for drainage, it would
not have them.
Norma Meighen made formal motion to return Docket No. 151 -02 PP, The Villas at Sweet
Charity Farms (Primary Plat) to the full Commission with a positive recommendation,
seconded by Wayne Haney, Approved 5 -0.
4. Docket No. 39 -02 OA, 40 -02 OA
Amendments to the Carmel/Clay Zoning Ordinance
Use Table Adoption Definitions Amendment (Text Amendments)
The petitioner seeks to make amendments to the structure of the Ordinance relating to
uses, add definitions and group all definitions into Chapter three of the Ordinance.
Filed by the Department of Community Services
CONTINUED to the next Committee Meeting.
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at
10:20 PM.
Dave Cremeans, Chairperson
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
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