HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes PC 11-19-02o
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City of Carmel
CARMEUCLAY PLAN COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 19, 2002
MINUTES
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Carmel /Clay Plan Commission met at 7:00 PM in the
Council Chambers of City Hall, Carmel, Indiana, preceded by an Executive Committee at 6:30
PM in the Caucus Rooms to discuss general administrative matters. The meeting opened with
the Pledge of Allegiance.
A Eulogy for James T. O'Neal, Sr., outstanding community leader and former Plan Commission
member, was delivered by Leo Dierckman.
Commission members in attendance: Marilyn Anderson; Stephanie Blackman; Jery
Chomanczuk; Dave Cremeans; Leo Dierckman; Wayne Haney; Ron Houck; Nick Kestner;
Dianna Knoll; Pat Rice; and Wayne Wilson, thereby establishing a quorum.
The minutes of the October meeting were approved as submitted.
Department of Community Services members in attendance: Mike Hollibaugh, Director; Jon
Dobosiewicz, Adrienne Keeling, Code Enforcement Officer; Kelli Lawrence; and Laurence Lillig.
John Molitor, legal counsel, was also in attendance.
F. Legal C'onnsel Report
John Molitor, legal counsel, gave a status report on the trial phase of the Leeper Electric litigation
involving the 4 acre parcel at 131 Street and US 31. The trial will probably continue for the next
few days. The Plan Commission's and City Council's action are being vigorously defended.
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Jon Dobosiewicz referred to a memo distributed to the Commission members regarding a request
from the applicant to TABLE items 2h and 3h., Clarian North Hospital. There is also a request from
the Department to TABLE item lh., Crooked Stick Golf Course. The revised legal description will
require re- noticing in the newspaper. After public hearing on December 17, 2002, the Department
requests that this item be forwarded to the City Council.
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H. Public Hearings
1h. Docket No. 140 -02 DP Amend /ADLS Amend; Motorcycles of Indianapolis
The applicant seeks Amended Development Plan and ADLS approval to construct
building additions. The site is located at 4146 East 96 Street. The site is zoned
B -3 (Business).
Filed by Bill Keller of KES Consultants, Inc. for Motorcycles of Indianapolis.
Bill Keller of KES Consultants, 740 East 52 Street, Indianapolis, appeared before the
Commission representing the applicant. The petitioner is proposing a revision to a portion of the
building as well as two additions. A canopy is proposed to the southern portion of the building
and revisions to the existing canopies. The site is surrounded by 96 Street to the south, Bauer
Drive, and Lakeshore Drive to the east and west.
The building comprises approximately 22,000 square feet with large windows on the south and
portions of the east and west elevations and will be used for sales and service of motorcycles and
smaller, all- terrain vehicles.
Formerly, the Dellen Automotive Group had their offices in the building presently occupied by
Honda. The plan is to relocate the business office to the east side of the building. The offices
would accommodate 4 executives and a small secretarial staff. The windows on the offices will
match the existing. The large canopy on the west side of the building offers protection for
motorcycles that have been serviced and awaiting pick -up. Mr. Dellen would like to change the
existing canopy to the front to a curved canopy to match the canopy planned for the west side.
The canopy will project approximately 15 feet from the building. The color of the building will
be essentially the same; the color of the canopies will also be the same. The metal finish is a
standing seam facia.
Parking on the site is currently adequate and will accommodate the expansion and comply with
the Ordinance. The drainage issues have been addressed —there is no change in the drainage
pattern. Neither lighting nor signage will be changed at this time.
The landscaping to the front of the site was destroyed by street widening, and this will be
replaced in kind. The landscaping will match the existing planting area around the offices.
Members of the public were invited to speak in favor or opposition to this petition; no one
appeared and the public hearing was closed.
Jon Dobosiewicz reported for the Department. In addition to approval being sought for ADLS
and DP Amend, the petitioner has filed and will be appearing before the Board of Zoning
Appeals requesting a variance for the setback of the proposed building addition. The
Department is in favor of the petitioner's request, but asks that the Plan Commission consider
approving the Development Plan Amendment portion of this petition and forwarding the ADLS
portion to the Special Study Committee for consideration on December 3rd
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Ron Houck asked about the petitioner's commitment to replace the landscaping destroyed by the
widening of the street, but there were no details included in the information packets. Is there a
landscape plan in existence? Also, in the information provided, there is a reference to
incorporating the building design into ground sign design. Will this be addressed under the
ADLS review?
Jon Dobosiewicz responded that the landscape plan was not as detailed as it could have been, but
it did indicate the replacement of shrubs taken out along the 96 Street frontage. It is preferable
to have the Committee explore a concept that would tie the existing ground sign into the building
design. No permit has been issued for a sign; currently, the copy has been changed on the sign
without a permit.
Mr. Keller said he has recently been made aware of the sign situation. The dealership has
severed the relationship with the companies listed on the sign and their names have been
removed.
Wayne Wilson referred to the canopy and asked if there were outside storage for motorcycles.
Mr. Keller reiterated that there is no provision for outside storage after hours. The canopy is
merely to provide coverage for those motorcycles that have been serviced and awaiting pick -up
in daytime hours only.
Nick Kestner asked the purpose for the canopy 20 feet beyond the building and whether or not it
would be used for additional showroom display. Mr. Kestner also asked the petitioner to submit
"3 -D" building elevations at the Committee level -it is now difficult to visualize.
Mr. Keller said the space is not used for vehicles. There are times when rallies are organized and
it is a gathering place that provides shade.
There was discussion as to whether or not the Development Plan should be approved this
evening without tying it into the ADLS package. It was determined that the architectural design
of the canopies and building should be further reviewed by the Special Study Committee.
Docket No. 140 -02 DP Amend /ADLS Amend, Motorcycles of Indianapolis, was referred to the
Special Study Committee for further review on December 3, 2002 at 7:00 PM in the Caucus
Rooms of City Hall.
2h. Docket No. 145 -02 Z; Clarian North Hospital (Rezone)
The applicant seeks to rezone a 5.043 acre tract form B -5 Business to B -6
Business. The site is located at the southwest corner of Pennsylvania Parkway and
College Avenue.
Filed by Joseph M. Scimia of Baker and Daniels for MCP II, LLC and Methodist
Health Group, Inc.
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TABLED
3h. Docket No. 146 -02 DP /ADLS; Clarian North Hospital
Petitioner seeks Development Plan and Architectural Design, Lighting,
Landscaping Signage approval for a hospital and medical office building. The
site is located at the southwest corner of Pennsylvania Parkway and College
Avenue. The site is zoned B -5 Business and B -6 Business and is within the US
31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Joseph M. Scimia of Baker and Daniels for Clarian Health Partners, Inc.
TABLED
4h. Docket No. 151 -02 PP; The Villas at Sweet Charity Farms (Primary Plat)
The applicant seeks approval to plat a 54 -lot residential subdivision on 38.01
acres. The site is located on the south side of 141 Street 1/8 mile east of Towne
Road. The site is zoned S -1 /Residence Estate.
Filed by Rich Kelly of EMH &T for Justus Home Builders, Inc.
Chris White, Development Consultant, 510 Fox Lane, Carmel, appeared before the Commission
representing Justus Homes Builders, Inc. Also in attendance: Walt Justus of Justus Homes and
Rich Kelly of EMHT, Engineer for this project.
This proposed development is located on the south side of 141 Street between Towne Road and
Ditch Road, south of Saddle Creek. The property is being purchased from Nancy Irsay, "Sweet
Charity Farm" to the east, and John and Jan Brown. The existing residence in the northwest
corner of the property will be platted on 3 1 /2 acres and retained by the Browns.
An existing entrance will be aligned with the Sweet Charity Horse Farm to the east and Saddle
Creek to the north. To the west, there are a few homes fronting on Towne Road -to the
immediate west, adjacent to the property, a sub station has been installed by Cinergy along with
power lines extending north to 141 Street. To the south are two large -lot homes nestled in the
woods.
The subdivision will consist of 54 lots on 38 acres with a density of 1.42 consistent with other
subdivisions recently approved in the area. Both active and passive open space have been
incorporated into this community computed at 16.3 acres, 43% of the site. A large amount of
open space has been designed along the frontage of 141 Street with a pond, landscaping,
entrance walls, and a 10 -foot walking. There are no homes that back up to the road; there are
sides of 4 homes behind the common area exposed to 141 Street.
Considerable drainage flows from the northwest to the southeast and the pond will transport the
water from the northwest to the southeast; a legal drain. Walking paths have been proposed
around the center and along the southern portion of those lots fronting on the pond at the
southeast corner along with a gazebo that will allow the residents to enjoy the ponds and be able
to walk all the way around them. Additionally, there is a six -acre open space area created for
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active, recreational fill area. The landscaping plan incorporates a white rail fence consistent with
Sweet Charity Farms and Saddle Creek, across the frontage, and around the perimeter of
common areas for better definition.
Justus Company is proposing all brick, ranch Villa homes geared toward empty nesters. Justus
presently builds this type of home in Noblesville, Stoney Ridge Subdivision, 166 and
Cumberland Road, and will range in price from $275, to 350,000 with square footages from 18
to over 3,000 square feet. The lot sizes will be approximately 80 X 120.
Mrs. Irsay has asked that the "Sweet Charity" name not be incorporated into the project name,
and the petitioner has agreed. A different name will be chosen.
Members of the public were invited to speak in favor of the petition; no one appeared. Members
of the public were invited to speak in opposition to the proposal, the following appeared:
Remonstrance:
Andy Crook, 2288 West 136 Street, listed several issues: drainage and pooling of water;
buffering; connecting street; density; type of fencing taking into consideration livestock; and
type of street- lighting and possible effect.
Chris White said he had met with the Crooks at their home to discuss the issues. Regarding the
drainage —the majority of the water flows south of this site, but the petitioner will re- examine in
further detail. There will be drainage swales along the rear of the lots to accept water from the
Villas site. Some of the low spots are not on the subject site; the street stub was located
following discussions with the DOCS staff, but will explore other options. The buffering has
been provided in accordance with the Ordinance.
The public hearing was then closed.
Jon Doboiewicz said the comments from the public will be taken into consideration and will be
included in the Department Report prior to the Committee meting. Typically, issues of drainage
are addressed at TAC as a part of the Primary Plat by the surveyor's office. It is anticipated
with this site, because of the development being proposed west of Town Road and south of 141
Street, the water from that site across Towne Road will be picked up in their stormwater system
and carried off in another manner. The issues with regard to stormwater should be reduced, if
not eliminated by the proposal. The location of the stub street to the south could be modified
somewhat along the frontage, either east or west; there is no difficulty in meeting the Ordinance
standards. This can be discussed further at Committee. The Department is requesting additional
shade trees along the western edge adjacent to the property owned by PSI. The current proposal
calls for several clusters of three, ornamental trees; perhaps a tree line along that edge with the
addition of plantings around the pond, would be preferable. A lighting detail should be
submitted as well as responses to those questions raised by the Public.
Ron Houck requested the TAC minutes on this particular docket and questioned the price range
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of the homes and whether or not there was an anticipated budget for the maintenance of the large
common areas, 16 plus acres.
Chris White responded that the homes range in price from $275,000 to $350,000. Currently,
there is no detailed maintenance budget; the common areas would be maintained by the required
dues from the homeowners association.
Nick Kestner was concerned about space available between lots 16/17 and 25/26 and whether or
not additional lots would be proposed in the future.
Chris White said it is required that the Open Space has two means of access and these points are
provided at these lots. If additional lots were proposed, they would have to meet the Ordinance
and Open Space requirements, and the petitioner would also have to return to this body for
approval. At this time, the lots are at the maximum.
Ron Houck questioned the inclusion of the existing home into the subdivision, and where it
would be accessed.
Chris White commented that the existing home is not proposed to be similar type housing or part
of the internal street system. The home is platted within the requirements of the City of Carmel.
Jon Dobosiewicz reported the petitioner had initially filed the plan without the existing home lot
included. It is not permissible to split off a tract of less than 5 acres in size, and the suggestion
of the Department was to include the existing home. Currently, a pathway and sidewalk study is
being prepared that will identify gaps in the pathways and trail system. If there is a gap, it is
because the right -of -way was never dedicated and roadway improvements were never acquired
with a subdivision proposal. The Department is trying to alleviate the situation that creates the
gaps in the infrastructure and improvements.
Docket No. 151 -02 PP, The Villas at Sweet Charity Farms Primary Plat was referred to the
Subdivision Committee for further review at 7:00 PM on December 3, 2002 in the Caucus
Rooms of City Hall.
5h. Docket No. 152 -02 PP; Cherry Creek Estates (Primary Plat)
The applicant seeks approval to plat a 273 -lot residential subdivision on 149.562
acres. The site is located on the east side of Hazel Dell Parkway north and south
of Cherry Tree Road. The site is zoned S -1 /Residential Low Intensity.
152 -02a SW SCO 6.3.7 maximum cul -de -sac length of 600'
152 -02b SW SCO 7.5.7 clearing of woodland areas
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates, Inc. for Platinum
Properties, LLC.
Jim Nelson, attorney, 12481 Medalist Parkway, appeared before the Plan Commission
representing Platinum Properties, LLC. Also in attendance were Paul Rioux, President of
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Platinum Properties, and Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates.
The 149 -acre site is commonly known as the Hazel Foster property and is located opposite the
Cherry Tree Elementary School. The plan provides for 273 single family lots and 48 acres of
open space. The homes are by Pulte and range in price from $300,000 to $500,000 plus.
The aerial photograph of the site shows the specific location of the real estate. The western
boundary is formed by Hazel Dell Parkway; to the west of Hazel Dell is the Cherry Tree
Elementary School. There are thee surrounding residential communities: Delaware Trace to the
south, Haverstick Estates by Centex to the south and east, and to the north is Spring Creek
Estates by U.S. Homes. This parcel of real estate is one of several in the area under the City's
plan for annexation and it is anticipated that the first public hearing for this parcel will occur
sometime in the month of November.
The real estate consists primarily of farm fields with three existing wooded areas: one on the
west side adjacent to Hazel Dell Parkway; one on the east side in the southeast corner; and in the
center section, paralleling the Vestal Legal Drain is the third wooded area. Cherry Tree Road
dissects the real estate from southeast to northeast. The proposed plan provides for the future
vacation of Cherry Tree Road and its replacement by a major east/west roadway running along
the north property line that would provide a direct connection between Hazel Dell Parkway and
River Road. There are two well sites on the property, one five acres in size, and another 2 '/2
acres in size.
There are two types of homes proposed within the Subdivision: one for empty nesters, and one
for families. The empty nester homes number 66 and are patio homes located to the interior of
Cherry Creek Estates; the family homes number 207, they will be more traditional two -story, 3-
car garages, basements, and a high percentage of exterior brick and masonry. The style, size and
price are compatible with homes in the adjacent neighborhoods.
The site plan for the primary plat identifies the division of the real estate among the internal
street system, the 273 lots, and the 48 acres of open space, both natural and designed. The
primary entrance is from Hazel Dell Parkway and will be aligned with the entrance to Avian
Glen on the opposite side of Hazel Dell. Connections have been provided for stub streets both to
the south and the east, Delaware Trace and Haverstick Estates. Within the internal street system
is the east/west roadway that parallels the north property line and replaces Cherry Tree Road that
dissects the real estate. The east/west road is a substantial roadway, residential in appearance,
and designed for a capacity greater than a residential street. The road design includes an 80 foot
right -of -way, a minimum of two, 18 foot lanes with a 12 foot median and a 10 foot multi -use
path as well as a new bridge across the Vestal Legal Drain. This roadway provides an
opportunity for the community to someday have a direct east/west connection between Hazel
Dell Parkway and River Road.
The open space in the plan consists of 48 acres, excluding the two well sites that will be
landscaped and made into a park -like area. The open space plan also provides for tree
preservation currently being looked at by Scott Brewer, Urban Forester. There is a substantial
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wooded area adjacent to Hazel Dell Parkway and the plan is to maintain a substantial, natural
buffer between Hazel Dell and the first street shown on the site plan. The plan is pedestrian
friendly with sidewalks on both sides of all interior streets. A trail system has been provided that
wind through the open space and connects with the 10 foot, multi purpose pathway running
parallel to the major roadway along the north property line.
A community recreational area is also being provided with swimming, tennis, and playground
equipment. The application requests two variances from the Subdivision Control Ordinance, one
as to the length of the cul -de -sac and the other to encroach into an existing woodland area. The
encroachment is believed to be more than offset by the additional landscaping being provided as
well as the additional preservation.
Members of the public were invited to speak in favor of the proposal; no one appeared.
Members of the public were invited to speak in opposition to the proposal, the following
appeared:
Organized Remonstrance:
Rick Schu, 5271 Comanche Trail, representing Delaware Trace and Plum Creek, requested more
information regarding traffic impact of the proposed development, impact upon local schools and
and safety factor. Also, the reduced green space, the loss of trees to the east and west, and the
effect of putting the additional houses and the close spacing and the established development to
the south are troublesome. The density of the proposed development, preservation of green
space /mature woodlands, and the east/west roadway are also issues. Mr. Schu suggested
eliminating the lots between the southern portion of the site and Hazel Dell, and between
Delaware Trace and Hazel Dell.
Individual Remonstrance:
Bill Perry, 5335 Rippling Br000k Way, Spring Creek Subdivision—expressed concern with
placement of east/west road; increase in traffic, noise, and children's safety; and effect on
property values.
Dawn Hannon, 5367 Rippling Brook Way, Spring Creek Subdivision, expressed concern with
tree preservation at the trail that will affect the property value of her home. If the east/west
roadway were installed, a fence would be needed for the safety of her children.
Frank LePlant, 5345 Rippling Brook Way, Board member of HOA definitely opposed to the
east/west roadway —any buffering proposed?
Chris Foot, 14385 Avian Way, concerned with east/west roadway that would align with Avian
Way.
Steve Peters, 5273 Comanche Trail, reiterated preservation of woods; questioned cul -de -sac
location surrounded by water and access for fire safety vehicles— requests a decrease in density
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and a buffer. Also requests written standards for the homes proposed, pattern of traffic flow and
the effect of traffic on Hazel Dell Parkway; plan for stoplights and financial responsibility; plan
for construction traffic. Requests a table for 90 days.
Michelle Shaffer, 14160 Cherry Tree Road, concern with increased lighting from proposed
subdivision; effect on the existing tree line; whose ground for roadway easement; requests
fencing to contain livestock in regard to proposed east/west roadway. Concern with possible
contamination of existing well site through the use of pesticides and accidental oil spills.
Scott Martin, 13126 DelRay Lane, Plum Creek North HOA, concern with increased traffic and
appropriate stop signs /signals.
Pete English, 5288 Arapaho Court, (corner of Arapaho Corner and Kickapoo Trail) concern
with traffic pattern. Would like information from petitioner regarding home prices for empty
nesters versus single family homes. Agrees with Mr. Schu regarding elimination of lots on the
southern portion between subject site and Hazel Dell and between Delaware Trace and along
Hazel Dell.
Keith DeAmbre, 5270 Arapaho Way, concerned with price points and size of patio lots; impact
on wildlife; increase in traffic and safety of children; proposed covenants and restrictions for
new development and aesthetic impact on neighboring subdivision.
Christine Ramsey, 5280 Arapaho Way, commented pictorial displays were not realistic as far as
front load garages; proposed plat should be compared with existing, surrounding subdivisions;
also concerned with tree preservation plan and impact on her property.
William Stark, 784 Ironwood Drive, currently constructing on lot 136 in Delaware Trace,
corner of Arapaho Way and Kickapoo Trail, concerned with drainage in relation to the storm
sewer on his lot and additional watershed.
Jeff Wallace, 5274 Arapaho Way, moved here from New Jersey —objects to the proposed
density with no buffer; concern with property values, since "his subdivision is $200,000 or more
and the proposed $300 $500,000 homes will decrease his property value."
Jim Nelson rebutted saying that the aerial photograph displayed showed three surrounding
residential communities: Delaware Trace, Spring Creek Estates, and Haverstick Estates. The
149 acres could have been referred to as an "infill" sight, but that would have demeaned the real
estate. The subject site is actually the last parcel in the area to be developed, and that is
important. It is also important to know that the density of the proposed development is 1.8 1,
permitted under the Ordinance, and because of the Open Space Ordinance, another 36 lots could
be developed, although the petitioner has chosen not to do that. The proposed development is
consistent with the surrounding developments. Delaware Trace is probably 1.5; Haverstick is
probably 2.5 and Spring Creek is probably 3 units per acre. From a density perspective, this
proposal is in the ballpark—density and Subdivision Control Ordinance. A traffic report is on
file prepared by A F Engineering that concluded no problem —this is 149 acres located
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adjacent to a major north /south roadway that connects to 146 Street on the north, 131 and
126 on the south. We will, however, try to address some of the issues that remain from a traffic
point of view.
We have no choice but to connect to the stubstreet in Delaware Trace —there is no option.
Regarding the east/west roadway along the north property line, it was requested of us and we
agreed. It is not entirely the petitioner's doing; however, there is a long term necessity for the
benefit of Carmel and it goes beyond community based needs as opposed to site specific issues.
The trees along the north property line will remain. Regarding the other questions, answers will
be provided at the Committee level.
The public hearing was then closed.
Jon Dobosiewicz reported for the Department. The petitioner is working with the City Engineer
regarding the specifications for the east/west collector roadway identified on the City's
Thoroughfare Plan and the petitioner is willing to comply with the Thoroughfare Plan. The most
recent copy of the Thoroughfare Plan was adopted in November 2000. The east/west roadway is
identified at the proposed location. The common area in the subdivision to the north buffers the
lots —the lots would not adjoin or abut the roadway. There is a trail through the common area
and the subdivision to the north was designed in such a manner as to accommodate a buffer at
this location in anticipation of a future roadway across this property.
Regarding the quality and /or value of proposed development, the Department does not socially
engineer neighborhoods in this community. There are minimum standards in the Ordinance that
this developer is proposing to far exceed, whether the home price indicated actually comes to
fruition is a mater of discretion with the petitioner—as long as they meet the standards set forth
in the Ordinance. It is only through the request for waiver that the Department is in a position to
ask the petitioner to commit to standards that are above and beyond what is expected for lots in
any other subdivision in the community. Typically, those standards that bring us above and
beyond the minimum standards required are addressed in covenants and restrictionsa private
contract between individuals within a community when they purchase with all other individuals
in the neighborhood after the covenants and restrictions are drawn.
Based on the input of the public, the Department suggests that the Plan Commission seek to have
the petitioner be placed in a position that they would commit to the standards of development. In
addition, the Department would like additional information on several of the common areas
proposed. Additional plantings are to be committed to in the rear yards of all lots within the
subdivision to offset those areas. As a Department, it is extremely difficult to negotiate with the
developer and a plan needs to be put together by an accredited arborist. Comments from the
public will be assimilated and provided to the Committee prior to the meeting so that the
Ordinance can be best applied.
Stephanie Blackman asked if the expanded roadway would be in roughly the same location as
the current Cherry Tree Road?
Jim Nelson responded that from the Thoroughfare Plan's point of view, Cherry Tree Road does
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not function as an east/west roadway. The idea is to vacate Cherry Tree Road between the
Cherry Creek Estates property lines and replace it with the east/west roadway along the north
property line. The back access from Spring Creek Subdivision will be maintained on the new
Cherry Tree Road.
Ms. Blackman asked if there were another round -about planned where Cherry Tree meets Hazel
Dell. Jim Nelson said that in discussion with the City Engineer, it will be a "T" intersection as it
is on the opposite sidea "T" intersection into Avian Glen.
Dianna Knoll commented that replacing mature, beautiful trees with 4 or 5 new trees within the
rear of each lot in the Subdivision is not the same thing.
Ron Houck asked to receive the TAC Minutes on this particular project. Ron also noted that
ponds 2, 3, and 4 are in the flood fringe and questioned what protection would exist for the
ponds and drainage easement.
Pat Rice asked about a proposal that Scott Brewer was working on for wildlife relocation policy.
Ron Houck also asked whether or not a tree preservation survey is being done as a part of the
preservation plan. Jim Nelson responded in the affirmative, although it is not tree specific,
certain areas have been identified as provided under the Open Space Ordinance, as to mature,
young, scrub, etc.
Paul Rioux with Platinum Properties said the plan has been created and two meetings held with
Scott Brewer about the tree preservation. The preservation plan would not be distributed until it
is finalized. It will be available before the Committee meets.
Docket No. 152 -02 PP, Cherry Creek Estates Primary Plat was referred to the Subdivision
Committee for further review at 7:00 PM on December 3, 2002 in the Caucus Rooms of City
Hall.
After a short recess, the Commission resumed with the business at hand.
6h. Docket No. 149 -02 DP Amend; Providence at Old Meridian
(Development Plan Amendment)
The applicant seeks approval of an amendment to the approved Development Plan
for Providence at Old Meridian. The site is located at the northeast corner of
West Carmel Drive and Old Meridian Avenue.
Filed by the Buckingham Companies.
David Lazenby, Development Manager with Buckingham Companies, 333 North Pennsylvania,
Indianapolis, appeared before the Commission representing the applicant. Also in attendance
was Gary Murray, Paul I. Cripe Engineers.
The petitioner is requesting an amendment to the approved Development Plan. Currently,
Providence consists of 330 units with many amenities. The remaining portion of the site is
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proposed for the development of townehomes rather than apartment units. The original plan and
ordinance does allow for the 7 acres of the total 23 acre site to be developed as townehomes, the
approved Development Plan was created for apartments.
In order to building townehomes or any unit that would be for sale or fee simple, a plan must be
created that allows for the conveyance of the land and the proposal provides for such a plan. The
proposed plan is similar in architecture of massing, spacing of buildings, open space and other
elements that contribute to its unique sense of place in the community.
The property is bordered on the east by Twin Lakes Apartments; to the south is The Arbors
Apartments, now owned and managed by Buckingham. The original Development Plan
provided for a total of 510 apartments on approximately 23 acres, a density of plus 22 units per
acre. The Plan also provided for 866 parking spaces, 5.6 acres of open space, and 2.3 acres of
recreation space.
The buildings are all oriented towards a street or open space and are accessible by private
alleyways. Most of the buildings contain 4 to 6 units, ranging in size from 20 feet wide to 24
feet wide, and all are about 40 feet deep. There is a larger building on the central green space;
there are two courtyards. The open spaces are viewable are accessible, parking areas are
incorporated by streets and alleyways, and there is a tree preservation area.
Two different brick colors are used in the apartments; all of the recessed areas are a lighter brick
and the areas in the foreground are a little darker. This theme will be carried out in the
townehomes. The acreage remains unchanged, and there are 80 less units, down to a total of 430
as opposed to 510 units initially. With the benefit of a two -car garage for each townehome unit,
the number of parking spaces is increased by 180; the parking ratio is up to a total of 2.83. The
open space is increased by 3% to a total of 28 As provided in the original plan, the
recreational space has not changed and remains at 10
The request for Amendment to the Development Plan does not alter anything in the original PUD
Ordinance. The development standards are still valid, as well as the lighting standards, and
landscape standards. The petitioner is merely seeking an amendment for the layout of the
townehomes. All of the original commitments will be fulfilled with the development of the
townehomes.
Members of the public were invited to speak in favor or opposition to the proposal; no one
appeared and the public hearing was closed.
Jon Dobosiewicz reported for the Department. The Department has asked for certain items to be
addressed and some of those have been accomplished this evening. The Committee should
review those items not addressed this evening. As indicated by the petitioner, they have
provided renderings showing the proposed townehomes. The drawings are conceptual and
intended to provide guidance for final architecture. The Department believes there is still a
burden on the part of the petitioner to reveal to the Plan Commission that these buildings, as
constructed, will conform to the requirements, and the PUD language will be consistent with the
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design vocabulary as well as the renderings. It is at the Plan Commission's discretion and the
work of the Committee before final consideration by the full Commission.
Ron Houck opined that from a marketing standpoint, perhaps the townehomes should be
distinguished from the apartments —there might be an identity issue. Perhaps some architectural
elements might want to be added to the townehomes to offer some distinguishing feature
externally as opposed to the apartments.
David Lazenby responded that many of the people looking at the apartments in Providence
thought they were for sale; this is one of the reasons why townehomes are proposed. Another
way to distinguish is by the interior finishing. The petitioner has an interest in protecting the
quality of development already in existence.
In response to questions from Jerry Chomanczuk, Mr. Lazenby said the townehomes will be
priced between $200,000 $250,000.
Docket No. 149 -02 DP Amend, Providence at Old Meridian Development Plan Amendment
was referred to the Subdivision Committee for further review at 7:00 PM on December 3 rd in
the Caucus Rooms of City Hall.
7h. Docket No. 150 -02 OA;
Amendments to the Carmel/Clay Zoning Ordinance Patch #4
The petitioner seeks to add new provisions to and make several corrective
amendments to the Zoning Ordinance.
Filed by the Department of Community Services.
Laurence Lillig appeared before the Commission representing the Department of Community
Services. This particular "Patch Ordinance" makes minor corrections as well as adding more
substantive changes. This Amendment will take the Development Plan and ADLS process and
streamline the language found in the Ordinance. At present, many of the Districts have language
that is repetitive and in many cases, needlessly distinct from section to section. The language
will be consolidated into a single section that will outline the process for DL and ADLS. Those
sections of the Ordinance that have specific requirements, for instance the 421 Overlay that
requires specific architectural styles, US 31 —the same, those will still be in place —the standards
will not be affected. This is merely an attempt to streamline the process and make the Ordinance
more user friendly, not only for the Department in day -to -day dealings with petitioners, but for
the public in general— hopefully for the Plan Commission as well.
The Amendment also provides for corrections and tweaks to some of the Overlays that were
recently adopted such as Old Towne and Home Place, to make them more equitable in their
application and administration. There are also changes to the Flood Ordinance dictated by the
new flood maps due out in February.
Members of the public were invited to speak in favor or opposition to the petition; no one
appeared.
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A revised draft of the Ordinance is to be forwarded to the Committee prior to the meeting. It
was recommended and agreed that the public hearing would be left open on this Amendment.
Docket No. 152 -02 OA, Amendments to the Carmel /Clay Zoning Ordinance, Patch #4, was
referred to the Special Study Committee for further review at 7:00 PM on December 3 rd in the
Caucus Rooms of City Hall.
L Old Business
li. Docket No. 114 -02 Z; Crooked Stick Golf Course
Petitioner seeks a favorable recommendation of a rezone from S -1 /Residential to
P- I/Parks and Recreation on 189.34± acres. The site is located west of Ditch
Road between 106 Street and 116 Street. The site is zoned S -1 /Residential.
Filed by the Department of Community Services.
TABLED
Note: Items 2i. and 3i. Were heard together and voted on separately.
2i. Docket No. 132 -02 ZW, 133 -02 ZW;
Carmel Ambulatory Surgery Endoscopy Center
The applicant seeks approval to construct a medical office building at 13421 Old
Meridian Street. The applicant seeks the following Zoning Waivers:
132 -02 ZW SCO 23G5.8.B.Lb Minimum wall height of 24'
133 -02 ZW SCO 23G5.8.B.Lb Minimum of two (2) occupiable floors
Filed by Robert A. Hicks, Esq. for Carmel Physicians Surgery and Endoscopy
Center.
3. Docket No. 113 -02 ADLS;
Carmel Ambulatory Surgery Endoscopy Center
The applicant seeks Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping Signage
approval for a medical office building. The site is located at 13421 Old Meridian
Street.
Filed by Becky Feigh of BSA Design for Carmel Physicians Surgery and
Endoscopy Center.
Robert Hicks, attorney, 12111 Castle Overlook, Carmel appeared before the Plan Commission
representing Carmel Physicians Surgery Center LLP. Also present: Becky Feigh, Rob Scheck,
and Monte Hoover of BSA Design.
The petitioner has appeared before the Special Study Committee for further review. One of the
waivers has to do with the projecting portion of the building; the other has to do with the number
of floors on the building. The building is essentially a two -story building fully 75% of the
building is two stories except for a projecting, one story portion of the building. The wall has
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actually been designed slightly higher than 16 feet 8 inches. There was alternating brick and
glass material; the glass has been eliminated on the lower portion and all the same elevation.
The portion of the building facing Old Meridian is still one story as designed—it will just be a
little higher than indicated in the waiver request.
The Special Study Committee voted to recommend approval of the waiver requests.
The ADLS application was also reviewed by the Special Study Committee and a lot of
suggestions were made as to materials, changing the facade, etc. Due to the time constraints
between Committee and full Commission meeting, it was not possible to prepare a revised
rendering for the Commission. Mr. Hicks was hopeful the Commission would allow the
Committee to make final determination as opposed to coming back before the full Commission
in December.
Monte Hoover of BSA Design addressed the Commission to explain the changes suggested by
the Special Study Committee. The first floor height of the building was raised a foot higher to
16 feet 8 inches. The second floor parapet was raised by two feet and the screen wall lowered by
one foot in an effort to further hide the screen wall for the mechanical equipment. A limestone
base and lentils were incorporated. The large expanse of glass was minimized. Less horizontal
emphasis in the building and more vertical emphasis with the lines of the building. More
traditional canopy form to the front entry and walkway canopy —even a copper roof form on the
surface of the canopy. There were comments from the Committee regarding more interest on
the Guilford elevation relative to more windows and more landscaping. Finally, a more
traditional color to the brick was favored.
Jon Dobosiewicz summarized the action taken by the Special Study Committee. There was
discussion regarding building design. Two motions were made by the Committee: One was to
forward a recommendation on the ADLS to the full Commission and that the Commission
forward its authority to the Committee to make final approval on the ADLS at the December 3ra
Committee meeting. The second motion made was regarding the approval or support for the
zoning waivers, both forwarded with a favorable recommendation. The nature of the discussion
was to provide additional elevations. If the Commission believes they are moving in the right
direction, the Department would suggest that the Committee's recommendation on the zoning
waivers be accepted and return the ADLS portion to the Committee for final action.
Marilyn Anderson suggested a compromise. Perhaps a week before the Committee meeting,
every Plan Commission member would receive a copy of the proposed ADLS so that the
Subdivision Committee members would also have a chance to review and make comments.
Ron Houck said his concern is really a Development Plan issue. There was talk at the public
hearing regarding the curb cut on Guilford —was the situation resolved?
Marilyn Anderson said the curb cut issue was dead; there will be no curb cut on Guilford.
Wayne Wilson moved for suspension of the Rules of Procedure to allow the ADLS Docket 113-
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02 to return to the Special Study Committee for final approval, motion seconded by Pat Rice.
The vote was 9 in favor one opposed (Ron Hock) MOTION DENIED. The ADLS will return
to the Committee for further review and back to the full Commission for final vote.
Note: The petitioner committed to furnish new drawings and up -dates to all Commission
members prior to the Committee meeting on December 3ra
Wayne Wilson then moved for approval of the Subdivision Waivers (Docket No. 132 -02 ZW
and Docket No. 133 -02 ZW, seconded by Ron Houck and APPROVED 10 -0.
4i. Docket No. 122 -02 Z; Manor Healthcare Corporation (Rezone)
The applicant seeks to rezone 4.321 acres to the OM/MF (Old Meridian Multi
Family) zone designation. The site is generally located south of 131 Street between
Old Meridian Avenue and Pennsylvania Street. The site is zoned OM /SFA (Old
Meridian Single Family Attached).
Filed by Paul G. Reis of Drewry Simmons Pitts Vornehm, LLP for Manor
Healthcare Corporation.
Paul Reis, 5013 Buckeye Court, Carmel, attorney, appeared before the Commission representing
the applicant. The petitioner appeared at the Subdivision Committee on November 12 for further
review. Items discussed were conceptual design, elevations of the buildings along Grand
Boulevard, and the attributes of the proposed development for an up -scale apartment community.
Also discussed were other projects developed by Edward Rose Properties in the Indianapolis
Metropolitan area, the positioning of the buildings along Grand Boulevard as it relates to the
streetscape design for Old Meridian District, and the reservation of right -of -way in the southern
portion of the development for a future connector to Pennsylvania Street from the Grand
Boulevard. Finally, overall dedication of right -of -way within the project was discussed.
The Committee voted 6 -0 to recommend approval to the full Commission and approval and
forwarding to the City Council.
Jon Dobosiewicz reported that this item is recommended for forwarding on to the City Council
with a favorable recommendation. If the Plan Commission forwards this item this evening, it is
anticipated that it would appear on the City Council Agenda for public hearing on December 2,
2002.
Dave Cremeans confirmed Paul Reis' recap of the Committee's discussion and vote. At this
point, this item is strictly a rezone and the ADLS will come before the Commission at a later
date.
Dave Cremeans moved for approval and forwarding to City Council of Docket No. 122 -02 Z,
Manor Healthcare Corporation Rezone. The motion was seconded by Ron Houck and
APPROVED 9 in favor, one opposed (Wayne Wilson.)
5i. Docket No. 123 -02 PP; Clay Creek Overlook (High Grove, Section 3)
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The applicant seeks approval to plat a 1 -lot residential subdivision on 1.006±
acres. The site is located at the east end of Redgold Run adjacent to High Grove
Subdivision. The site is zoned S -1 /Residence Estate.
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates, Inc. for Shamrock
Builders, Inc.
Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates, Inc. appeared before the Commission
representing Shamrock Builders. Also in attendance was George Geiger of Shamrock Builders.
Approval is requested for a one -lot Subdivision to be known as High Grove, Section 3, Lot 33.
The Subdivision Committee reviewed this item and made a favorable recommendation.
Jon Dobosiewicz said the Department is recommending the full Commission approve the one -lot
replat as High Grove, Section 3, as opposed to Clay Creek Overlook as filed, subject to the
report of the Committee.
Dave Cremeans reported for the Subdivision Committee. After thorough review, the Committee
voted 6 -0 to approve the one -lot subdivision.
Dave Cremeans moved for approval of Docket No. 123 -02 PP, Clay Creek Overlook (High
Grove, Section 3), seconded by Ron Houck and APPROVED 10 -0.
J. New Business
Note: Stephanie Blackman was recused from discussion and vote on Docket No. 160 -02 ADLS
Amend, IU Medical Group Sign.
1j. Docket No. 160 -02 ADLS Amend- IU Medical Group Sign
Petitioner seeks amended Architectural Design, Lighting, Landscaping Signage
approval to install a new wall sign. The site is located at 200 West 103rd Street. The site
is zoned B -3 (Business).
Filed by Paul G. Reis of Drewry Simmons Pitts Vornehm for Springmill Medical,
LLC.
Paul Reis, 5013 Buckeye Court, Carmel, appeared before the Commission as attorney
representing Springmill Medical LLC. Also in attendance: Eric Strickland of Kite Companies,
developer, Lisa Bohn, Signcraft, and Mark Monroe, law clerk with Paul Reis' office.
The petitioner is seeking approval of the amendment of the current ADLS for the Medical Office
Building located at 103 and Illinois Streets. This item was previously reviewed by the Plan
Commission in connection with Phase II of the project to the south. Signage is being requested
for the existing building.
The signage proposed will be a wall sign 84 square feet in size, and within the permissible sign
area of 90 square feet. The sign as shown will identify the IU Medical Group. Material samples
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were displayed showing one of the individual, back -lit letters with the logo.
Jon Dobosiewicz said the Department is recommending favorable consideration on this petition.
The Department asks that the full Commission take final action this evening if there are no
issues to be addressed at the Committee level.
Pat Rice questioned the level of illumination.
Paul Reis said the letters are back -lit and the lighting level will be consistent with similar
lighting in the corridor.
Lisa Bohn with Signcraft explained that the illumination of the sign is white neon and the exact
number of lumens is not known. However, when the sign is back -lit onto a brick surface, there
will be less illumination.
John Dobosiewicz suggested that if there were going to be other signs on the building, there
might be some discussion as to a consistent approach for the signage. If this sign will set the
standard for this building, (potentially two additional) the Commission may want to give the
petitioner some direction as to their preference.
Paul Reis responded that with Phase II construction, if there is wall signage proposed, it would
come under ADLS review. From the comments thus far, whatever signage is proposed in the
future, it will need to be consistent in style with what is being presented in this case.
Ron Houck was not sure that the current proposal is the standard the Commission would be
wanting.
Wayne Wilson asked if there were other buildings in the area with this type of material. Lisa
Bohn responded the Residence Inn at 116 and Meridian was similar as well as all signs at Hazel
Dell Parkway, Hazel Dell Corners, and others. A matte finish could be used, but it will not
affect the overall illumination.
Pat Rice commented the matte finish would be more appropriate but wanted to know the color of
the logo.
Paul Reis said the logo is clear and the red brick background will come through. The logo is
white, clear, and back -lit.
Dave Cremeans moved for approval of 160 -02 ADLS Amend, IU Medical Group Sign, that
will be a "bellweather" standard for the balance of the signs on the building and that matte finish
be utilized. The motion was seconded by Wayne Wilson and APPROVED 9 in favor, one
recused (Stephanie Blackman) none opposed.
There being no further business to come before the Commission, the meeting was adjourned at
10:15 PM.
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Marilyn Anderson, President
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
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