HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes SpecStdy 03-02-041,1`I y G`'`y of Cq,9y C ity
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, MARCH 2, 2004
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Special Study Committee met at 7:00 PM in March 2, 2004 in
the Caucus Rooms of City Hall, Carmel, Indiana.
Committee members present: Jerry Chomanczuk; Mark Rattermann; Madeleiene Torres; thereby
establishing a quorum. Leo Dierckman was present as an ex -officio member.
The following items were considered by the Committee:
1. Docket No. 167 -03 ADLS #03110003)
Meridian Technology Park, Corvasc Medical Office Building
The applicant seeks approval to build a medical office building. The site is located at the
on the south side of College Ave., 1/8 mile east of Pennsylvania St. The site is zoned B -2.
Filed by Mark Monroe of Drewry Simmons, Pitts Vornehm for REI Investments, Inc.
TABLED
2. Docket No. 04010002 DP /ADLS Mike's Express Carwash
The applicant seeks to construct a new carwash facility. The site is located at 1250 S
Range Line Road. The site is zoned I -1 /Industrial.
Filed by Charlie Frankenberger of Nelson Frankenberger.
Jim Shinaver, attorney with Nelson Frankenberger appeared before the Committee representing
the applicant. Also in attendance: Bill Daum, president of Mike's Car Wash; Todd Bower, Paul
Cripe, Engineering; Miles Rutger, landscape architect.
Currently, the site is occupied by the Carmel Carwash. Mike's Carwash will raze the existing
facility and construct the proposed carwash and self service facility. Jim Shinaver reviewed the
site plan and building elevations for the benefit of the Committee.
There are two points of ingress /egress: one on Range Line Road, and one on Carmel Drive. Jim
Shinaver said he had talked with Dick Hill in the Department of Engineering and will be working
with them. Mr. Shinaver will be scheduling a meeting regarding curb cut issues.
Signage: There are ground signs and menu signs; ground signs on Range Line Road and Carmel
Drive; two menu signs will be incorporated into the landscaping design.
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Included in the information packets was a rendering of the building elevation and the self service
facility. Also included were photographs of existing Mike's Carwash stores that show the
building materials primarily brick and glass. This particular site at Rangeline and Carmel Drive
will have NO signage on the building, only ground signs.
Department Comments, Jon Dobosiewicz. There were no items brought forth by the public at the
hearing on February 17 The Department recommends the Committee closely review the
building design and site layout in relation to compatibility with the character and community
identity of Carmel. The petitioner has applied for a sign variance through the BZA; those signs
consist of "menu board" signs. The Department is requesting that the petitioner revise the sign
size and height on Carmel Drive to conform to the Ordinance.
Committee Comments:
Jerry Chomanczuk said he had looked at an existing Mike's Carwash in Westfield. Signage is
prolific and a clear definition will be needed from the Department. The Committee needs to see
the complete sign package and would like to know what is going in the windows, etc.
Jon Dobosiewicz reported that anything larger than 3 square feet is classified as a sign; if it were
less than 3 square feet, it would need to be approved under ADLS review. Again, it is the reader
board issue. The U.S. Flag is OK, corporate flags can be flown and the dimensions should be
specified. Without question, banners are not permitted.
Leo Dierckman commented that excessive signage is not permitted; it would be a compliance
issue. Carmel does not want a lot of signage.
Jim Shinaver responded that the petitioner may want the ability to have some window treatment
on the main carwash facility. If that is less than 3 square feet in size, we will show the number,
location, and size on the plan for approval. The petitioner understands the concern of the
Department, but few signs would be visible from Carmel Drive and Range Line because of the
tree plantings and positioning.
Madeleine Torres was concerned with the site layout— whether or not there is adequate stacking
and how many cars can be accommodated.
Jim Shinaver said that part of the reason the site was designed as it appears is to allow enough
lane area so that cars can stack -up and still be on site rather than into the street. A lot of thought
went into this site and layout -it is considered safe and efficient. Mike's Carwash has a number of
facilities, and has the most stacking ability of any other car wash facility.
Jim Shinaver further stated that the exterior materials are brick masonry, fluted metal panels at the
parapet. The rooftop mechanical equipment will be screened with a cowl wall.
Jerry Chomanczuk referred to the photometrics and the area south of the self service. Lighting
levels seems to be high and need to be looked at.
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Jon Dobosiewicz asked if the petitioner could angle the building back and give the building a "hip
roof' look. Changes could be made to give the building dimension and depth, something for
contrast, and give it an articulated base for appeal/distinction.
Regarding photometrics, from a technical standpoint, the Department looks for point three foot
candles at the property line— intensity more than aesthetics. Jon recommended the petitioner
utilize and incorporate outside shields on the lights along the perimeter of the site —Make no
mistake, the lighting is bright!
The architect said the masonry is cantilevered, there is no taper in that system. There may be a
point once you get above the pre -cast panel, where a taper could be introduced. The petitioner
will try to do some things to add visual interest to the building and will re -work the design. The
petitioner also agreed to look at the photometrics.
The petitioner will revise the building elevations and work with Jon Dobosiewicz for input prior
to the March 30 Committee meeting. The petitioner will provide new renderings, complete sign
package /window treatments, and incorporate Department suggestions.
The petitioner will return to the March 30 Committee with building revisions, complete
sign package, and photometric up- dates.
3. Docket No. 198 -03 ADLS #03120015): Greyhound Commons, Phase II
The applicant seeks approval build a restaurant building. The site is located at the
southwest corner of Greyhound Pass and E. 146th Street. The site is zoned PUD- Planned
Unit Development.
Filed by Paul Reis of Drewry Simmons Pitts Vornehm for Kite Greyhound, LLC.
TABLED
4. Docket No. 04020006 ADLS Amend:
Hamilton Crossing West, Bldg 6 Adesa sign
The applicant seeks approval for wall sign facing US 31.The site is located at 13085
Hamilton Crossing. The site is zoned B -2 B -5 /Business within the US 31 Overlay Zone.
Filed by Jeff Morgan of Sign Studio, Inc.
Jeff Morgan, Sign Studio, Inc. appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. The
applicant would like to install a wall sign, back -lit, reverse channel letters. The face would be a
satin gloss enamel, black in color on the inside that will give a silhouette effect with white neon
tubing. The proposed sign will be the only sign on the building.
Department Comments, Jon Dobosiewicz. The petitioner has frontage on 131 Street and
dimensions are within the guidelines of the Ordinance.
Jerry Chomanczuk asked if the sign had been reviewed and approved by Duke—Mr. Morgan
responded that Duke Realty had reviewed the sign and requested a change in the size and has now
approved the sign.
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To Mr. Morgan's knowledge, there will be nothing on the parking structure.
Mark Rattermann moved for approval of Docket No. 04020006 ADLS Amend, Hamilton
Crossing West, Bldg. 6, Adesa Sign, (one wall sign only) seconded by Madeleine Torres and
APPROVED 3 -0.
5. Docket No. 04020009 ADLS Amend: Nations Rent (Michigan Rd)
The applicant seeks approval for signage. The site is located at 10222 N. Michigan Rd.
The site is zoned I -1 /Industrial within the US 421/Michigan Rd Overlay Zone.
Filed by Bob Jolley of Jay Sign Service.
Bob Jolley and Jay of Jay's Sign Service appeared before the Committee representing the
applicant. Dave Williams of Nations Rent was also in attendance.
The proposal is for a single ground sign, 32 square feet, with landscaping around the base. The
sign is black on gold and drawings have been submitted.
Jon Dobosiewicz stated that last year, approval was granted for an ADLS Amendment and the
State required additional right -of -way at this location for the intersection in front of the Super
Target. That plan was approved and has yet to be completed, including a fence and additional
landscaping approved along the frontage. Any approval and granting of a sign permit should be
conditioned upon completion of the agreed improvements.
There was discussion regarding the timing of the landscape plantings —last fall was ideal. Also,
drawings submitted to the Department show the sign as being within the right -of -way. The sign
must not be placed within the right -of -way but can be within the 10 feet outside the right -of -way.
Mark Rattermann moved for approval of Docket No. 04020009 ADLS Amend, Nations Rent
(Michigan Road) subject to the completion of the landscaping and fencing improvements by the
owner as previously required by the State, seconded by Madeleine Torres and APPROVED 3 -0.
6. Docket No. 04020007 ADLS Amend: Citgo Batteries Plus: ADLS Amendment
The applicant seeks approval for two signs. The site is located at the southeast corner of
116th Street Westfield Blvd.. The site is zoned B -3 /Business.
Filed by Jeff Morgan of Sign Studio, Inc.
Susan Weber, Batteries Plus owner, and Jeff Morgan of Sign Studio appeared before the
Committee representing the applicant.
Batteries Plus is in process of changing their corporate colors at all locations throughout the U.S.
The colors are two different shades of green.
Mr. Morgan stated a concern with the colors of green matching the existing on the band. At
some point, the colors of panels would be changed so that the colors would blend together, or as
shown, change the color to white and keep the corporate colors.
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The green on the front of the Citgo Station actually meets with the existing sign band. Citgo has
some white, different shades of red, and orange similar to that being proposed. The existing butts
up to the band. Either the sign band is changed to a solid green to match around the corner, or
white would be used on the side that faces Range Line Road and the side that faces 116 Street
would be black lengthwise.
Jerry Chomanczuk commented that the white background stands out and "assaults" the eyes; the
preference is for darker colors.
Mr. Morgan said the letters are standard, individual channel letters; the returns are bronze in
color. The only thing unique is that they actually have some depth to the face. Batteries Plus
corporate would have to make a final decision before any of the other colors could be changed.
Jon Dobosiewicz said that today, the colors are muted and look bad; the proposal is not muted,
but looks "different." It looks like two things that should not have gotten together did, and no
they are up against each other. The Department is just trying not to make it look worse.
Jon Dobosiewicz asked how the sign is to be illuminated and whether or not the new panel
matches the green band on the building. Is there an alternative to the proposed sign? In looking
at the existing ground sign, Batteries Plus is incorporated into that sign. Now, the new sign
changes the Batteries Plus sign, the identification is different, and it looks like a mixture.
Mr. Morgan stated that currently, the background of the sign is white, and the entire sign is
illuminated. The "MAC" bank and Batteries Plus is a shared face. The sign is vinyl on one panel
and to change that, Citgo would have to change the MAC portion. Actually, the overall square
footage is being reduced in the proposed sign—it is a slightly smaller sign, and more nicely
constructed. The logo is illuminated.
Jerry Chomanczuk asked if this proposal were "in tune" with current plans for the Range Line
Overlay draft Ordinance.
Jon Dobosiewicz responded that the current proposal is different, however, we need to come to
some agreement that it is a trade -offa wash —and we would be getting something better than
we have today. The "better" may be replacing the canopy with an all -white band on the side so
that the green is not being introduced on top of the other green—it is a cleaner look if it is an all
white background. If this were an initial proposal, it would not be approved. However, the
current proposal is better than existing.
The petitioner stated he would eliminate the greens and go with a white band—no red band. Mr.
Morgan said the Company was not aware that there were two monument signs on the property,
exactly like the one on 116 Street, and if one is changed, both would need to be changed —same
sign, same area, duplicate ground signs.
Mark Rattermann moved for approval of Docket No. 04020007 ADLS Amend, Citgo, Batteries
Plus, ADLS Amendment, subject to the installation of a white band behind the sign on Batteries
Plus and removal of the red band, seconded by Madeleine Torres and APPROVED 3 -0.
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7. Docket No. 04020031 ADLS Amend: Carmel Original Plat, Lot P8
Dunkerly Realty
The applicant seeks approval for an exterior remodel. The site is located at 30 South
Range Line Road. The site is zoned B -2 /Business within the Old Town Overlay, Main
Street Sub area.
Filed by Richard Johnson of R R Remodeling.
Don Dunkerly, 891 Copperwood Drive, Carmel 46033, appeared before the Committee
representing Dunkerly Real Estate and the applicant. The petitioner is making certain restoration
to the property at 30 South Rangeline Road, Carmel as a result of fire damage.
The location of doors is being changed and some windows are being eliminated. The property is
zoned business and as such, the City must approve the changes. This is not a new building. The
color siding is the same as is currently on the building.
Don Dunkerly added that the property has now been made handicap accessible. There is a
possibility that shutters will be an added detail; if that occurs, the Department has final authority
to grant color approval.
Comments:
Jerry Chomanczuk said he had driven by the property and it appears most all the work has been
done.
Jon Dobosiewicz noted that the roof shingles are different colors —Don Dunkerly agreed that the
shingles will be all one color, however, the footprint of the building is not being changed.
Don Dunkerly commented that he would like to increase the parking at the rear of the building.
Jon Dobosiewicz responded that any change to the parking layout would need to be reviewed by
the City Engineer because of drainage /storm water on site.
Mark Rattermann moved to approve the "sand color" paint to match the existing on Docket No.
04020031 ADLS Amend, Carmel Original Plat, Lot P8 Dunkerly Realty, seconded by
Madeleine Torres and APPROVED 3 -0.
Note: If shutters are proposed, the Department will have final approval as to color.
8. Docket No. 04020032 ADLS Amend: Clay Terrace Sign Package
The applicant seeks approval of an amended sign package. The site is located southwest
of 146th Street US 31. The site is zoned PUD /Planned Unit Development.
Filed by Paul Reis of Drewry Simmons Pitts Vornehm for Lauth Property Group.
Note: Mark Rattermann recused himself on this item; Leo Dierckman voted as an ex- officio
member of the Committee.
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Paul Reis, 5013 Buckeye Court, Carmel, attorney with Drewry Simmons Pitts Vornehm
appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Joe Downs, Vice President of
Development Operations for Lauth Property Group, was also in attendance.
The sign package for the Clay Terrace project has been significantly revised since last year.
Under the PUD, the applicant is required to present the new sign package to the Committee for
approval.
There will be signage on US 31, 146 Street, and at US 31 on the south side. The primary site
identity signs are yellow; the secondary site signs are on the north side and on the south side. The
large primary site sign is along US 31. The amenity directional signs and office amenity signs are
blue located primarily located along the streetscape of Clay Terrace Boulevard; the office is
toward the west side —the entrance into the office space above the retail. The directory signs for
the offices are orange, primarily in the green area, running east /westa listing of office tenants.
The 31 identification sign is now a more highly- stylized monument sign, 19 feet 10 inches in
height. The previous sign was sandstone block, individual letters, and measured 11 feet, 11 inches
from the top of the "I" in Clay. The permitted sign area in the Ordinance is 316 square feet; the
applicant is now at 150 square feet.
The entry signs at 146 Street and US 31 are consistent with the building facade design. The
most significant difference between the current sign and the prior sign is the overall height. The
permitted sign area is 105 square feet; the signs are approximately 51 square feet for the sign area,
"Clay Terrace."
The amenity signs that will appear on the lamp posts and posts near the office areas are
directional. There were primary and secondary pedestrian signs; the stone /slab design along Clay
Terrace Boulevard are being eliminated and in their place are amenity directional signs that will fit
directly on the lamp posts rather than being on a separate sign structure. The sides of the sign
area will vary depending on the amount of information.
There are new signs —office tenant directly signs. The concept of pedestrian signage is being
maintained; the overall height of the sign is 7 feet, 6 inches— scaled to pedestrians.
Department Comments, Jon Dobosiewicz. Of particular note is that the two signs, one on US 31,
and the entry signs on either end will be going before the Board of Zoning Appeals because of
their height —the sign height is a critical issue. The variance approval from last year was for two
signs, flanking either side of the entrance, 54 square feet in area, 7 t/2 feet in height. This has now
been reduced to one sign, 50 square feet, 12 feet in height. The issue the Department has is the
back -side of the sign that reads "Thank you for visiting Clay Terrace." This signage is felt to be
unnecessary and not something typically seen; the residents of the area would see that signage
every day. There will also be two signs along 146 Street flanking either side, different than a
Subdivision Entry sign, and is more commercial. It is perpendicular to 146 Street and is talking
to the consumer driving across 146 Street. The other signs deserve attention, but if they are less
than 3 square feet, they are not required for review, however, they are being shown.
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Leo Dierckman commented that the sign package before the Committee now is far superior to the
one initially approved, although he was a "little nervous" about the size. Leo suggested beefing up
the landscaping around the signs seen as one exits the Clay Terrace.
Joe Downs of Lauth agreed to eliminate "Thank You for Visiting Clay Terrace" on the reverse of
the signs.
Jerry Chomanczuk asked about future banners on the lamp -posts and what would those be. Paul
Reis responded that banners would be for Special Events, and permitted under the PUD.
Jon Dobosiewicz reported that there is language in the PUD that addresses banners—it can be an
ad for a public event, such as CarmelFest, used periodically but not all of the time.
Jerry Chomanczuk also asked about further identification on parking lot signs, such as A -1, A -2,
etc. because the lots are large.
Leo Dierckman asked the petitioner to get rid of Westfield Avenue (Carmel Avenue is OK) as a
street name.
Joe Downs agreed to add further identification on parking lot signs and also agreed to do away
with Westfield Avenue.
Leo Dierckman moved for approval of Docket No. 04020032 ADLS Amend, Clay Terrace
Sign Package, seconded by Madeleine Torres, APPROVED 3 -0. (Clarification: "Thank you
for Visiting Clay Terrace" is gone)
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at
9:20 PM.
Jerry Chomanczuk, Chairperson
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
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