HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes PC Executive Committee 03-17-09of CA
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CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, MARCH 17, 2009
Council Chambers
Carmel City Hall
Carmel IN 46032
Minutes
Members Present: Leo Dierckman, Jay Dorman, Brad Grabow
Carol Schleif, Steve Stromquist
Members Absent: Dan Dutcher, Rick Ripma
DOCS Staff Present: Michael Hollibaugh, Director; Angie Conn; John Molitor, Legal Counsel
Also Present: Ramona Hancock, Plan Commission Secretary
PUBLIC HEARING:
Docket No. 09020009 SP, Hayden Run
Section 1, lots 1 -3 and CA 1,3
The applicant seeks plat committee approval for a replat to correct an error on the plat.
The site is west of Towne Road on 131 Street and is zoned S -1 /Residence -ROSO.
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates, Inc.
Present for Petitioner: Curt Huff, Stoeppelwerth Associates, Inc.
Overview:
Error discovered in the western boundary line of Hayden Run
Error resulted in a 10 %2 inch overlap on the property to the west
DOCS directed Stoeppelwerth to obtain a replat which necessitated signatures of all property owners along
the property line
To date, signatures of all property owners obtained except for Mr. Wang (Lot 3)
Wrought -iron Fence, landscaping, irrigation heads moved to ensure location
Replats for two of the sections have been recorded
Outstanding Lot 3 needs to be recorded to resolve the issue and also remove clouds from future sales
transactions
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Letters were sent out last year to all home owners; second letter sent to Mr. Wang in July, 2008 with no
response
Certified Mail letter sent to Mr. Wang in October, 2008 which was not picked up
Four Voice Mails left for Mr. Wang—no response
Sign Posted, Notice Procedure adhered to—finally had a response from Mr. Wang
Attempts to explain situation and procedure to Mr. Wang were not met with satisfaction
At this time, Jay Dorman presided over the meeting due to Leo Dierckman's temporary absence.
Legal Counsel, John Molitor: This Docket is unusual under the Rules of Procedure; it is a Secondary Plat item
that DOCS Staff was unable to resolve with the petitioner. Recommendation from Legal Counsel was for petitioner
to give Public Notice with the Executive Committee serving as the Plat Committee. This item is being treated as a
Public Hearing Item.
Public Remonstrance /Unfavorable:
Exing Wang and wife, owners of lot 3, 3229 Tantara Bend, Carmel. Wangs have owned the house since 2003.
No one explained how the error occurred. Adjacent land was undeveloped, owned by Centex and sold to
Silverstone (Wang's builder.) When Centex sold property to Silverstone, they sold part of Wang's property—the
overlap area. Mr. Wang's position is that he owned the property first —two years before Silverstone, and it is
unfair to ask the Wangs to give up the overlap area—it should be a problem between the two builders. Mr. Wang
felt that it was obvious —this is not an issue that needs to be discussed. The only thing Stoeppelwerth asked was
for the Wangs to sign the Agreement—no one came forward to explain the reason, the cause. Lots 1 and 2 were
sold to the current residents AFTER Centex sold the property to Silverstone. If understood correctly, Silverstone
owned the overlap area before it was sold to the current residents; Mr. Wang is the first/original owner of the
overlap area.
Rebuttal, Curt Huff:
Centex had an option on property to the west Centex never owned it —the option ran out
Explanation as to how the error occurred: From the starting point/section point, the surveyor made an
error by 10 %2 inches that resulted in an overlap
Error was brought to Stoeppelwerth's attention by a lot in Silverstone at the time of staking
Department Report, deferred to Legal Counsel, John Molitor:
From the facts as presented, it appears that the Builder sold a lot with an incorrect legal description
Legal Description included the 10 %2 inch strip to the west
As a legal matter, it appears that the builder did not own the property—the 10 %2 foot strip —at the time of
sale
Currently, the developer is asking that the plat be corrected to show that the Subdivision does not include
the 10 %2 inch strip
Not within the Plat Committee's jurisdiction (Executive Committee) to determine ownership of the 10 %2
inch strip
It IS within the jurisdiction of the Plat Committee to determine whether or not the replat shows the correct
survey of the property
Under State Law, the Executive Committee is serving as the Plat Committee with jurisdiction to determine
what is the correct replat of this Subdivision —under State Law, someone who is aggrieved by the decision
would have the right to appeal the decision to the full Plan Commission
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Committee Comments /Questions:
County records show the lot is actually wider than is shown on the drawings
Anyone check the actual Deed to the property—it should show dimensions
Was title insurance part of what was done when Mr. Wang purchased his property?
All properties along the boundary affected by the 10 %2 inches? (Yes)
Did anyone provide compensation in any way to the homeowners, other than moving fences or sprinkler
heads
It sounds as if the replat holds, but if aggrieved, a property owner could make a case against Centex or
potentially the titled party who recorded the title work and verified dimensions of the lot
Probably a private, legal matter that the Committee is not a party to—it is between the land owner and the
developer
Petitioner's Response, Curt Huff:
Carmel has accepted and signed off on two recorded sections —there is no doubt that between the two surveys, the
line should move 10 %2 inches to the east to eliminate the overlap. One property owner was provided compensation
based on computation by Centex of square footage lost versus what was paid for the lot
John Molitor said it is not known whether or not title insurance was involved as a part of Mr. Wang's purchase, but
it would certainly be conventional in a transaction of this nature to include title insurance; however, the Plat
Committee cannot rule on issues of title insurance —the Plat Committee can only rule on whether or not the plat is
correct under the Subdivision Control Ordinance. John Molitor further commented that this is an issue between
two private parties; the Committee should not feel that it resolving the issue between two parties by determining
that the survey included with the replat is correct. If the Committee is not certain that the survey is correct, this
item may be Tabled and more proof could be requested. If there is no question as to what the correct survey is,
then it is within the Committee's authority to approve the replat as a Secondary Plat; the development of this
subdivision has already been approved by going through the approval process. Legally, the 10 %2 inches is in the
Hayden Run Plat, but the developer never owned it. The question is whether or not the developer ever had the right
to include the 10 %2 inches in the plat. This is a platted subdivision that requires amendment. The petitioner is
attempting to get the plat corrected. The petitioner has acknowledged that an error was made in the legal
description and survey when it was first reviewed by the Plan Commission.
Department Comments, Angie Conn: The Department is comfortable that the plat now accurately reflects the
current situation.
Jay Dorman addressed the following comments to Mr. Wang:
The Executive Committee can only validate that the new plat is acceptable according to City Standards
If Mr. Wang feels that he has been wronged by this piece of land, and thought that he did, in fact, own it, it
would be up to Mr. Wang personally to seek redress from the surveyor, or his title company, or potentially
other people, either through a lawyer or through errors and omissions from Stoeppelwerth and perhaps
some compensation, or some other persons /company that a lawyer might suggest. The Plan Commission
and Executive Committee cannot do that for Mr. Wang.
In reality, Mr. Wang's claim is being validated, that there was an error in the size of the lot because the Committee
is replatting based upon a smaller square footage.
Motion: Leo Dierckman "to approve Docket No. 09020009 SP- replat, Hayden Run, Section 1, Lots 1 -3 and CA
1, 3," seconded by Carol Schleif, approved 5 -0, Motion Carried.
Item: Extensions, Michael Hollibaugh, Director, DOCS
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Old Meridian Plaza Time Limit
Overview:
2 -year extension for signage
Extension for signage tied to other, multiple extensions
Conflicting provisions in the Ordinance
Some conflicts will be corrected with a Patch Ordinance currently in the works
Note: The Executive Committee unanimously agreed to allow the extensions.
The meeting adjourned at 7:35 PM.
Jay Dorman, Presiding Chairperson
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
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