HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes TAC 04-21-04OFFICIAL
CARMEL CLAY
TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Minutes
April 21, 2004
REPRESENTING THE CITY OF CARMEL:
Mike Hollibaugh, Director DOCS
Dick Hill, Engineering
Jim Blanchard, Blding and Code Enfrcmt
Greg Hoyes, County Surveyor's
Scott Brewer, Urban Forester
Gary Hoyt, Fire Department
Steve Broermann, County Highway
Jason Kappel, Consult /Spectra Enviro'mnd
Angie Butler, Planning Zoning
Adrienne Keeling, Planning Zoning
John Dobosiewicz, Planning Zoning
Vic Kelson, Consult/Wittman Hydro
John Duffy, Utilities
Mike McBride, Engineering
Brooke Gajownik, Sheriffs Dept
Tim Northam, Consult/Wittman Hydro
Fred Glaser, Engineering
Chuck Shupperd, Vectren Energy
Dan Greskamp, Engineering
Dean Groves, Cinergy
Attachments: Bill Akers
Morris Hensley, Utilities
Attachments: Jay Alley
Via e -mail: Bill Akers, 911 Communications
Via e -mail: Jay Alley, Clay Township Regional Waste District
Page 3. Docket Nos. 04030043 Z and 04030044 DP /ADLS:
Dixie Highway Addition, lot 2 (pt) Yang Health Center
Page 4. Docket Nos. 04030045 PP Amend and 04030041 SP:
Earl and Bertha Harvey's Subdivision, Lots 2A -2B:
Primary Plat Amendment and Secondary Plat
Page 5. Docket Nos. 04030047 DP /ADLS and 04030048 Z:
North Augusta, Sec 1, lots 1Opt -11 and Sec 2, Lot 39:
My Three Sons Ventures, LLC (Development Plan)
Page 7. Packet No. 04040005 SP: Mayflower Park, Blk 1, lots 2 -3: Secondary Plat
4/21 /04Tacminutes
1
Page 7. Docket No. 04040006 SP:
Mayflower Park, Blk 6, lots 3 -4 and Blk 7, lot 2: Secondary Plat
Page 8. Docket No. 04040004 SP
The Lakes at Hamilton Place, Sec 2- Secondary Plat
Page 11. Docket No. 04030046 DP Amend /ADLS Amend
Carmel Industrial Park Engineered Cooling Systems (Development Plan)
Page 13. Docket No. 04040014 DP /ADLS
Kite Medical Office Complex, Phase 1 (Development Plan and ADLS)
Page 15. Cherry Creek Estates, Sec 1B, CA #3 Amenity Area- Special Use
Page 15. Docket No. 04040001 SP
Cherry Creek Estates, Sec 4- Secondary Plat
Page 16. Docket No. 04040007 TAC
Village of WestClay, Sec 3004, Blk E Mosele Bldg
Page 17. Docket No. 04040017 DP- Carmel Science and Technology Park, Blk 11, lot 4
Companion Animal Hospital (Development Plan)
Page 17. Docket No. 04040015 SP
Carmel Science and Technology Park, Blk 11, lots 2 -4 (Secondary Plat)
Page 19. Docket No. 04030042 Z Townhomes at Guilford PUD
Page 20. Martin Marietta Materials Mueller Property South Sand Gravel
Mineral Extraction (Special Use)
4/21 /04Tacminutes
2
Docket Nos. 04030043 Z and 04030044 DP /ADLS
Dixie Highway Addition, lot 2 (pt) Yang Health Center
Filed by Dennis Lockwood of Mark Swanson Associates, Inc.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Dennis Lockwood, MARK SWANSON AND ASSOCIATES
Mark Swanson, MARK SWANSON AND ASSOCIATES
The applicant seeks to rezone approximately 0.2 acres from R -3 /Residence to B -1 Business and
also proposes a building addition. The site is located at 10640 North College Avenue and is within
the Home Place Business District Overlay. The scope of work entails an addition to an existing
building that is currently used as a health facility. The existing facility is approximately 950 square
feet and will be adding an additional 550 square feet. The owner is currently operating under a
Variance to use as a medical facility.
HOYES:
I sent a letter Monday 12, 2004. Drainage appears to be inadequate for the
site. I would like the civil drawings to be Engineered Scale not
Architectural Scale. Some recommendations on 106 improvements for
eighteen -inch (18 pipe you cannot use it as an additional onsite.
HILL:
No comments.
GROVES:
We need Engineered Scale not Architect and an Auto -cad, New Service
Request and loading. I also noticed an overhead line that needs moving.
SHUPPERD:
It appears the old meter set will be okay. Will be adding load?
LOCKWOOD:
Upgrading the size of the unit only.
SHUPPERD:
Contact J. Breeck if you need to increase the existing meter.
GAJOWNIK:
No comments.
BLANCHARD:
No comments.
HOYT:
I faxed a letter to D. Lockwood and believe he has responded. If you want
to order a Knox -box you can order on -line at www.knoxbox.coin along
with our Department number.
BROERMANN:
(Passed letter to D. Lockwood and JDobosiewicz) Our concern is the
structure that you are tying into with your storm outlet. We think it should
be done at a ninety- degree angle. The angle now will interfere with our
pipe running north and south. I am not sure if the structure is big enough.
It is a Regulated Drain. We would like to go ahead and install the structure
and stub in so you can just connect to it. What is your timeline?
LOCKWOOD:
Guessing mid summer. Will that manhole be moved to the south?
BROERMANN:
Unlikely the grade of the street is established and there is an inlet in the
curb and manhole directly behind the inlet. We would still like to get that
stubbed out.
LOCKWOOD:
You would stub out with a six -inch?
BROERMANN:
Whatever is required? Call me later and we will get with the Project
Manager involved.
LOCKWOOD:
Another comment is that they did not want to dig up that area again for
storm sewers so they want to get that done at the same time.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
BROERMANN: We have not put it in. We are working that way so we need to work
...END...
Docket Nos. 04030045 PP Amend and 04030041 SP
Earl and Bertha Harvey's Subdivision, Lots 2A -2B
Primary Plat Amendment and Secondary Plat
Filed by Dave Barnes of Weihe Engineers
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Dave Barnes, WEIHE ENGINEERING
The applicant seeks to split one residential lot into two lots. The site is located northwest of
110th Street and Westfield Boulevard. The site is zoned R -1 /Residence. This is an older
subdivision. Lot two is currently one lot with an existing home dividing it into two parcels and
constructing a new house on lot two. All utilities are in place. No legal drains on this tract and we
are preserving the mature trees.
HOYES:
something out.
LOCKWOOD:
What is that timetable?
BROERMANN:
I would think within a month or sooner. Maybe we will stub it out and cap
HILL:
it. Make sure you call us. Do your connections with the sanitary sewer and
GROVES:
gas exist?
LOCKWOOD:
Yes.
BREWER:
I sent D. Lockwood an e -mail. I need revised plans.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
We sent out a review letter on April 1, 2004. We need to see a response to
those. To follow up with S. Broermann do you know if you have the right
of -way at that location? Through the Development Plan process right -of-
way will become an issue in relation to the existing building. Is there
additional right -of -way configuration at that location that the County will
want to see?
BROERMANN:
No, we required the Thoroughfare right -of -way at that spot to be a forty
five feet (45') half.
AKERS:
Will use current address.
ALLEY:
Building permits should NOT be issued unless the District has issued a
connection permit. The existing sanitary sewer lateral should be re -used
and any work on the sewer connection will require a District permit and
inspection.
...END...
Docket Nos. 04030045 PP Amend and 04030041 SP
Earl and Bertha Harvey's Subdivision, Lots 2A -2B
Primary Plat Amendment and Secondary Plat
Filed by Dave Barnes of Weihe Engineers
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Dave Barnes, WEIHE ENGINEERING
The applicant seeks to split one residential lot into two lots. The site is located northwest of
110th Street and Westfield Boulevard. The site is zoned R -1 /Residence. This is an older
subdivision. Lot two is currently one lot with an existing home dividing it into two parcels and
constructing a new house on lot two. All utilities are in place. No legal drains on this tract and we
are preserving the mature trees.
HOYES:
I sent you a comment letter we have no objections.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Serviced by what type of water and sewer?
BARNES:
I think it is Carmel water and sewer or maybe a well.
HILL:
This is not in our jurisdiction.
GROVES:
No comments.
SHUPPERD:
No comments.
GAJOWNIK:
Once they build call B. Akers to address Lot 2 -B.
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4
BLANCHARD:
No comments.
HOYT:
I sent a letter, no comments.
BROERMANN:
No comments.
BREWER:
I need a plan with existing and send me a your preservation commitments.
BUTLER:
No comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Verify the necessary variance request, lot frontage, lot area and that
depends on the nature of the variance how it is serviced with sanitary and
DOBOSIEWICZ:
water.
...END...
Docket Nos. 04030047 DP /ADLS and 04030048 Z
North Augusta, Sec 1, lots 1Opt -11 and Sec 2, Lot 39
My Three Sons Ventures, LLC (Development Plan)
Filed by Chris McComas of Advocati, LLC
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Chris McComas, ADVOCATI
Phil Lande, MY THREE SONS VENTURES
Mrs. Lande, MY THREE SONS VENTURES
The applicant proposes a retail building development and rezoning lot 39 from S -1 /Residence to
Business.The site is located southeast of 97th Street Michigan Rd. The site is zoned B-
2 /Business and S -1 /Residence within the US 421 Overlay Zone. Here is a response letter to the
comments sent to us. We are also supplying copies of the legal notice and enjoinder. We are re-
skinning an existing one -story building adjacent to the commercial site to be more consistent with
the Overlay Zone. We are building a new two -story building. The dental practice house behind
there will be torn down and move to the second floor of the new commercial building. The
detached garage will remain. We are moving APLCO lines and building a new sewer lateral.
HOYES:
Here is my comment letter. This does fall partly in the Regulated Drain
Watershed. Even though you will be taking away from the watershed
Hamilton County still requires onsite detention.
MCCOMAS:
We have a letter from the State that allows us to dump into the storm
system.
HOYES:
I will need to see that letter from INDOT and we still require the variance
from the Hamilton County Drainage Board.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Where does the State take its water?
HOYES:
Across the county line.
HILL:
No comments.
GROVES:
No comments.
SHUPPERD:
I believe we have CAD service to some of those buildings you are tearing
down. You will need new service to the new buildings so we will retire the
old and connect it to the new. We will need load information for the new
buildings.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
MCCOMAS:
Can we have our Civil Engineer contact you?
SUPPERD:
Yes.
GAJAWNICK:
Is each building on its own lot?
MCCOMAS:
No one unified lot.
GAJOWNIK:
Both buildings will receive the same address with building numbers and
suites. Contact B. Akers for the addresses (571- 2586). How many tenants?
MCCOMAS:
Two in the smaller building with up to twelve in the bigger.
GAJOWNIK:
Suite numbers designated by floors and suite numbers increasing by tens
starting with 100.
MCCOMAS:
We would like to keep the address 9699.
BLANCHARD:
No comments.
DOBOSIWICZ:
J. Blanchard you said, "no comments" we will not see this again through
TAC.
BLANCHARD:
Okay, then we will need a demo permit. Will you have a construction
trailer?
MCCOMAS:
Yes.
BLANCHARD:
Elevator?
MCCOMAS:
Yes.
BLANCHARD:
You will need to contact Morris Hensley for the well permit (571 -2447)
BUTLER:
I received a Replat Application without Plats.
MCCOMAS:
We are trying to acquire the property to the east and when we do we will
get the Replat to you.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
If you are adding an additional parcel, it may require coming back to TAC.
BROERMANN:
We have issues with the entrances on 96 and 97 Streets. They do not
meet our offset requirements. We would like to see them removed or
relocated. The one at 96 Street is a traffic hazard with safety issues.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Is the median on Michigan Road extending past 97 Street?
BROERMAN:
Yes.
DOBOSIEWICZ: So at a minim we are looking at a "right in, right out
BROERMANN: On 96 Street? We could live with that. Our big problem with this is
people turning east out of the site. You are crossing five lanes of traffic
turning east. Additionally the one on 97 Street is so close to the
intersection being seventy -five feet, (75') to eighty feet (80') from US421
when our minim is one hundred and fifty feet, (150').
DOBOSIEWICZ: That is easily modified. The grade of plans submitted for this application, at
this time are they acceptable?
BROERMANN: No, we need more detail.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Dimension list needed.
BREWER: I talked with C. McComas and "Inside Out Design I have a call back to
her with comments. The east buffer yard does meet the ordinance
requirement at all by the number of plantings.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We have granted relief from that in the past but we can give some for side
yard but not from the planting requirements. If you cannot make the
plantings work you will need to step back and revise.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
BREWER:
Shrubs are not the problem in that length of property line there should be
thirteen (13) shade trees and thirteen (13) ornamentals. Species comments I
will take up with R. Fischer of Inside Out. The planters on the south
building have trees the north building does not have trees. I would prefer
all trees. I will talk with R. Fischer about that.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
I will get you comments on your letter.
MCCOMAS:
We wanted to put a message board sign to avoid using banners and a
monument sign by the entrance.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
We have not had success in the past with message board type signs.
Especially in the 421 overlay area. But that does not mean there is not a
way to appropriately display that type of board.
MCCOMAS:
Can we sit down and review it?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Yes. If you add that other parcel the comments will be less extensive than
today. With regard to coming back to TAC I think it is important to hash
out the design before you get in front of the Plan Commission. On the
rezone issue we do not need to delay. If this other parcel were included we
would not need to rezone.
...END...
Docket No. 04040005 SP
Mayflower Park, Blk 1, lots 2 -3 Secondary Plat
AND
Docket No. 04040006 SP
Mayflower Park, Blk 6, lots 3 -4 and Blk 7, lot 2 Secondary Plat
Filed by Greg Snelling of Woolpert
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Greg Snelling, WOOLPERT
Misty Moore, BROWNING INVESTMENTS
Jamie Browning, BROWNING INVESTMENTS
The applicant seeks to plat 2 lots. The site is located just northwest of the intersection of 99th
Street Mayflower Park Drive. The site is zoned I -I /Industrial. We will be following this with
Construction Plans AND the applicant seeks to plat 3 lots. The site is located just southeast of the
intersection of 99th Street Mayflower Park Drive. The site is zoned I -I /Industrial. Will follow
with Construction Plans.
HOYES: I sent a letter last week. No comments.
HILL: No comments.
GROVES: Out of our service area.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
SHUPPERD:
No comments. If you go with gas we will need a new service request.
GAJOWNIK:
Contact Bill Akers for addresses (571- 2586).
BLANCHARD:
No comments.
HOYT:
No comments.
BUTLER:
No comments.
BROERMANN:
Right -of -way reference on the one to be removed.
SNELLING:
We have taken that off.
BROERMANN:
In order to be put on Monday's agenda Kim will need that by noon today
and I will submit them but I cannot guarantee signature turnaround that
quick.
BROWNING:
We told her to file today.
BROERMANN:
J. Dobosiewicz is the City okay?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
We should be by the end of the day. If we can get our comments addressed
today we will have a signature by this afternoon.
AKERS:
No comments at this time. Once you decide to build a structure then
contact me and I can assign an address to that parcel.
ALLEY:
Construction plans must still be submitted for District review. District
Sewer specifications must be followed. Building permits should NOT be
issued unless the District has issued a connection permit
...END...
Docket No. 04040004 SP:
The Lakes at Hamilton Place, Sec 2- Secondary Plat
Filed by Jerry Kittle of The Schneider Corporation
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Dan Wilson, THE SCHNEIDER CORPORATION
Craig H. Lintner, DURA BUILDERS
The applicant seeks to plat 34 residential lots. The site is located just south of the intersection of
West Road and West 121st Street. The site is zoned S -1 /Residence- Estate.
HOYES: I am not complete with the review and will get you a comment letter
tomorrow.
HILL: IA and 1B is approved by agreement with Hamilton County Highway
Department we will take over the review from now on. We require
Bonding for major improvements. We need drainage calcs. Why is the
sidewalk shown in and out of the right -of -way?
WILSON: Leaving room for trees. There is a ped- easment that is eight feet between
the curb and the walk for the trees.
HILL: The Street Planning Profile and our Standard is showing the requirement
that the sidewalk be inside the right -of -way by one feet.
WILSON: Then we would need to modify this section to meet the other sections.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
DOBOSIEWICZ: Why is it in the easement?
WILSON: To allow for street trees.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Under an agreement with the Surveyor's Office?
HOYES: Yes.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We need that spelled out and revise the right -of -way to fall behind the
sidewalk?
WILSON: Then you are pushing this and the drainage easement back onto the lot? I
assumed Dave Sexton had gone through it with you.
DOBOSIEWICZ: This is a surprise to me.
WILSON: We have large existing trees so it would not be wise to move them.
DOBOSIEWICZ: It was already approved under "A1 and B I"?
WILSON: Yes.
DOBOSIEWICZ: It would affect the building setback lines as well by two feet. It needs to be
a minimum of twenty -five. We do not have issue with the Design. We need
the right -of -way line and the easement line to be standardized.
WILSON: What if we specify on the plat what belongs to the City and what belongs
to the lot?
HILL: Five years from now we would have a terrible time.
DOBOSIEWICZ: It will also affect the setbacks.
WILSON: We will look and see about that.
DOBOSIEWCIZ: You will be giving them a smaller footprint to build their home.
HILL: Is there a reason you did not extent that sidewalk across the common area?
WILSON: There is one already there in Section IA. We can add one over here.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Yes do.
HILL: What is that second point?
WILSON: This is the right -of -way that goes around here with common area in the
middle and this is the curb line.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
On that common area for the first one back the common area off the
SHUPPERD:
sidewalk and line up the sidewalk. Leave the island and cut the sidewalk
WILSON:
through the island. Just make it a private walk.
HILL:
We are changing the specification for the asphalt.
WILSON:
Subsurface drain, move more under the curb instead off the curb line?
HILL:
Yes. On the Secondary Plat change the Signature Blocks.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
It should be the Board of Works.
GROVES:
This is Ron Booher's area. Need new service request and a call to R.
Booher to discuss the project and general loading outside the homes etc
SHUPPERD:
Section 1 A or 1 B is that under construction now?
WILSON:
Not yet but soon.
SHUPPERD:
Is Jerry Washburn your contract?
WILSON:
Yes.
SHUPPERD:
What are your utility need dates for IA and B?
WILSON:
Mid August.
SHUPPERD:
We have gas there. I can get with Steve and...
WILSON:
I am meeting Steve tomorrow.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
GAJOWNIK: Has that been put through for street name approval through the county?
WILSON: I do not know.
GAJOWNIK: Right now it shows on the maps Eagle Ridge Lane and then Eagle Ridge
Drive and then back to Lane again. I assume that would be a nightmare for
emergency and fire. I would get with Bill Akers on that (571- 2586).
BLANCHARD: No comments.
HOYT: I sent a letter to Jerry Hittle. Can my Ladder Truck make the turn? What
type of curbs are they? At least I need roll back curbs. I will provide you a
turning radius for my trucks. We cannot have a hairpin type anything for a
straight truck.
BREWER: I called Jerry Kittle, no landscape plans.
DOBOSIEWICZ: You will need to resolve the issue with the sidewalk or move the right -of-
way line. What I am hearing is that you have an agreement with the
Surveyor's Office to be unregulated with the condition to be along the tree
line.
HOYES: Not us.
DOBOSIEWICZ: The trees are going in after the sidewalk.
WILSON: We need to make some changes widening of the right -of- way will be fine.
DOBOSIEWICZ: This is developer driven due to tree moving? I will get with D. Sexton.
They need to call out all your changes.
AKERS: Waiting on Secondary Plat for Section IA and IB. I do not recall
addressing that section with a current subdivision name. May have to
reassign addresses in Section 1.
ALLEY: The District's consulting engineers have reviewed the plans. This project
will require submission of a District application and the IDEM permit
package for final District review and approval.
...END...
Docket No. 04030046 DP Amend /ADLS Amend:
Carmel Industrial Park Engineered Cooling Systems (Development Plan)
Filed by Mark Swanson of Mark Swanson Associates, Inc.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Dennis Lockwood, MARK SWANSON ASSOCIATES
Mark Swanson, MARK SWANSON ASSOCIATES
The applicant proposes a building addition and additional parking. The site is located at 201 West
Carmel Drive. The site is zoned I -1 /Industrial. The addition is 55,000 square feet to the west end
of the project. Height is about twenty -five feet and will be additional site work with added
parking.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
10
HOYES:
I sent a comment letter Monday. The J.W. Hawkins is on the western
boundary. There have been four to six different additions to this building
over the years. We need to make sure that this time they do not increase
the drainage. Have Chad call me and run off the calcs again. Parking is
encroaching in the detention area we will require non enforcements in that
area.
HILL:
I sent a comment letter. No Board of Works approvals needed unless they
are through Carmel Utilities. Make sure to submit plans to John Duffy
(571- 2451).
LOCKWOOD:
We did and we are not adding capcity to sewer or water.
HILL:
Okay. No performance guarantee requirements. We are working with
Cross Roads Engineers and I will share my comments with them. I do not
see any erosion control on these plans. You need to show that on the plans.
What is the intention of the inlet and lift station?
SWANSON:
I am not familiar with that. We will check into it.
HILL:
The new parking will it be curbed?
SWANSON:
Yes.
HILL:
Is the area adjacent to the new paving, adjacent to the grass along the
south side of the building up to the gates, is that currently paved?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
I think we need a survey of the existing conditions. An initial showing
current conditions a second with topography and a third with the additions.
HOYES:
Erosion control needs to be addressed through John South with the
Hamilton County Soil and Water (317- 773 1406).
GROVES:
Are you adding new loads or servicing from existing?
SWANSON:
Existing is adequate.
GROVES:
If it changes then fill out this information sheet (passing sheet to petitioner)
and send back to me.
SHUPPERD:
I ditto D. Groves for load requirements. I will pass to you a letter for meter
service and load for any changes that come up.
GAJOWNIK:
No comments.
BLANCHARD:
The two 4'x 4' concrete stoops (north and west) need to be replaced with
a walkway to a public way. Will there be a construction trailer?
LOCKWOOD:
No.
BLANCHARD:
No building permits will be issued before the pre submittal meeting. I have
a checklist for the pre submittal and commercial procedures. Be sure to
have all the signatures before contacting our office to schedule meeting and
issuance of permits within 10 days after pre submittal.
HOYT:
No comments.
BREWER:
You are not adding any landscaping at all?
SWANSON:
No.
BREWER:
It does not meet with the Buffer Yard Requirements. Have you talked with
the Parks Department since this goes up to the Monon? They will probably
have input.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
11
DOBOSIEWICZ: We will table this request until we get an acceptable Landscape Plan. If the
...END...
Docket No. 04040014 DP /ADLS:
Kite Medical Office Complex, Phase 1 (Development Plan and ADLS)
Filed by Paul Reis of Drewry Simmons, Pitts Vornehm for Kite Companies
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Mark Monroe, DREWRY SIMMONS PITTS VORNEHM
Greg Snelling, WOOLPERT
My name is Mark Monroe with Drewry Simmons Pitts Vornehm and here with me is Greg
Snelling with Woolpert. The applicant proposes a medical office building. The site is located
northeast of 126th Street and US Highway 31, at the 13000 Block of North Pennsylvania Street.
The site is zoned B -2 /Business within the US 31 Overlay Zone. The plans include Phase one of
4/21 /04Tacminutes
12
Petitioner does not want to add the additional landscaping required then I
would suggest your client stick with the current configuration of the
building and not move forward with the addition. You will need to have
these issues resolved before you move forward to the Plan Commission.
What is the parking setback from the property line?
SWANSON:
Maybe ten feet.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
We need an engineered Site Plan that shows us that setback. I cannot
identify the property line on this drawing. It is not called out. There are
several lines on here without identification.
SWANSON:
Okay. Can we still keep our Plan Commission date if we get everything to
you as soon as possible?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
The idea is to get all your correct and pertinent plans and information to us
before TAC review and we do not have that level of information right now.
BREWER:
I would like to meet with M. Swanson separately on this. Give me a can
later today to schedule that.
HOYES:
There is a County Regulated Drain there. Carmel has the desire to keep the
Monon Trail buffered from it but make sure the drainage works.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
What type of fencing is across the parking? Is there building access?
HOYES:
It is just underbrush.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
We do not want to open up the vista from the Monon to the back of this
building.
HOYES:
We could just clear the flow line and underbrush and leave the trees?
BREWER:
Are you available G. Hoyes to meet with us on site too this week?
HOYES:
Yes.
SWANSON:
and with us too?
BREWER:
Yes.
...END...
Docket No. 04040014 DP /ADLS:
Kite Medical Office Complex, Phase 1 (Development Plan and ADLS)
Filed by Paul Reis of Drewry Simmons, Pitts Vornehm for Kite Companies
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Mark Monroe, DREWRY SIMMONS PITTS VORNEHM
Greg Snelling, WOOLPERT
My name is Mark Monroe with Drewry Simmons Pitts Vornehm and here with me is Greg
Snelling with Woolpert. The applicant proposes a medical office building. The site is located
northeast of 126th Street and US Highway 31, at the 13000 Block of North Pennsylvania Street.
The site is zoned B -2 /Business within the US 31 Overlay Zone. The plans include Phase one of
4/21 /04Tacminutes
12
the project a three -story medical office building. This is almost identical to the plans approved
four years ago filed by the Opus North Corporation.
HOYES:
I faxed you a letter. This project falls in the W.R. Fertig Watershed. You
picked up more restriction from Hamilton Crossings. As far as drainage
and utilities easements there is an existing tile under US31.
HILL:
I sent a comment letter? Did Utilities receive a set of plans?
MONROE:
Yes.
HILL:
We have engaged Cross Roads Engineers to assist us with storm sewer
drainage and will pass their comments along when we get them. Are you
moving trees outside of the property line?
SNELLING:
It is scrub.
HILL:
phasing?
MONROE:
Likely three.
HILL:
I think we had this question with Opus regarding future alignment and curb
cuts.
MONROE:
At the time of the Opus project we were able to present information similar
to the plans submitted today.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
One outstanding issue with regard to an appropriate level of participation
of the Developer to road improvements necessary to accommodate new
development.
HILL:
We should arrange a meeting. The five feet walk to the north is that a
sidewalk and go to the south property lot.
SNELLING:
It is a sidewalk. We understand the City's desire for consistence.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
We should stick with the same material to keep from switching between
sidewalk and path. If it is sidewalk it should be five. If it is asphalt then ten.
GROVES:
We will need a new service request called in, loading. We have power cable
on the east side of Pennsylvania nothing on the west. My plan does not
show proposed transformer location or metering.
MONROE:
There is a transformer on the north end of the building.
GROVES:
Will this be metered at the transformer?
SNELLING:
We will get with you on that.
SHUPPERD:
Gas?
SNELLING:
Probably.
GAJOWNIK:
An address has been assigned you will need to call Bill Akers (571- 2586).
Suite numbers will be assigned by floor designation moving from left to
right by tens.
BLANCHARD:
Basement?
SNELLING:
No.
BLANCHARD:
Elevator?
SNELLING:
Yes.
BLANCHARD:
Contact Morris Hensley (571 -2673) for a permit. Construction trailer?
SNELLING:
Yes.
BLANCHARD:
You will need a Temporary Use Application. On the south side the
4/21 /04Tacminutes
13
pad /stoop will need a walk to a public way. No building permits will be
issued before the pre submittal meeting. I have a checklist for the pre
submittal and commercial procedures. Be sure to have all the signatures
before contacting our office to schedule a meeting and issuance of permits
within 10 days after pre submittal.
HOYT: We would like an enunciator panel for the alarm or at least a remote at the
front entrance. Provide Knox -box and caps on the building. As these
phases go in we will want hydrants added. Will the last phase sit on the
corner?
SNELLING: Close to it. Are the hydrant locations shown okay?
HOYT: Yes, and mirror image each phase all the way down.
BREWER: I have not sent a letter yet but we did talk though. We have had species
changes and I will get you comments on that.
DOBOSIEWICZ: The offsite is that going to be in the private drainage easement or some
type of temporary easement?
DOBOSIEWICZ: Your plan identifies right -of -way as proposed. We need you to dedicated
that at the forty -five feet (45') half consistent with the Thoroughfare Plan. I
would like you to provide copies to the Plan Commission of your
correspondence to the State along with a synopsis to the need of your
changes.
AKERS: Contact me for the address.
...END...
Docket No. 04040001 SP: Cherry Creek Estates, Sec 4- Secondary Plat
And
Cherry Creek Estates, Sec 113, CA #3 Amenity Area- Special Use
Filed by Bill Bryant of Stoeppelwerth Associates
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Bill Bryant, STOEPPELWERTH
Tim Walter, PLATINUM PROPERTY
The applicant seeks to plat 58 residential lots AND seeks special use approval for an amenity
area. Docket No. 04040003 SU Chapter 5.02 special uses. The site is located southeast of Cherry
Tree Road and Hazel Dell Parkway. The site is zoned S -1 /Residence- Low density. The amenity
area will include a bathhouse, wading and swimming pools, parking lot, two playgrounds,
basketball court and tennis courts.
HOYES: You will need non enforcement for the playground area. Section four, it is
in the City of Carmel.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
14
HILL: Curb cut approval from the Board of Public Works. What is that
rectangular site?
BRYANT: The Tot Lot.
HILL: We need a detail how the curbs will tie into the existing. Section four that
is a wellhead site?
BRANT: Yes.
HILL: You will need to get with J. Duffy in Utilities (571 -2451) to get a
formalized agreement. Regard the stretch of Cherry Creek Boulevard the
loop on this is that a City project?
DOBOSIEWICZ: No.
HILL: And the bridge?
BRYANT: We will do the bridge through Hamilton County G. Hoyes and I have
talked. Stoeppelwerth is working on the calcs and you will receive a
separate set of bridge plans. You had asked about the sidewalks on the cul-
de -loops we would construct them just like Section one. Also the right -of-
way does not go around it but becomes common area with ingress /egress
easement in concrete without curbing or sidewalks.
GROVES: New service list for you to fill out. Call in for your service. Will you need
service at the Basketball and Tennis Courts?
WALTER: No lights on the courts.
SHUPPERD: Section four this will come off the main stub. Will you have gas for the
pool?
WALTER: Yes.
SHUPPERD: Jerry Wasson is your contact. He will need load requirements to size the
meter.
GAJOWNIK:
The address for the amenity area is 14055 Wildcat Drive. Section four,
Pacos Drive is in two locations. You need to change that.
BLANCHARD:
You need to show pool house showers, location of telephone, drinking
fountain, ADA ramp.
BRYANT:
As part of the building plan approval?
BLANCHARD:
Yes.
HOYT:
I sent you a couple of letters. Amenity building needs a Knox -box. Section
four; on the roadway's final coat install blue hydrant identification markers.
BREWER:
Called yesterday. Need separate Landscape Plans for both sections.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Get your Landscape Plan to S. Brewer as soon as possible.
BRYANT:
We need this approved by Scott before BZA?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Yes before BZA May 24 On the plat C200 sheet working with Utility
for the dedication of right -of -way Brazos Drive and along Cherry Creek
Boulevard this is similar to Section one to complete the curb without
leaving this open patch of grass. Complete the short section of the bridge
as well and curb it. The amenity area the most critical is landscape and that
the parking meets the twenty -four feet (24') isle and nine by twenty (9 x
20) or ten by eighteen (10 x 18) spaces. The ordinance requires a
4/21 /04Tacminutes
15
minimum of two -point square feet (2.0') pool area with two lifeguards and
you show 14,058 square feet.
BRYANT: Do we need to submit a variance if we want to change that?
DOBOSIEWICZ: Yes. Get a Development Standards Variance application. Get that filed in
the next few days. Do some research and take into account the pools in the
area.
...END...
Docket No. 04040007 TAC ONLY
Village of WestClay, Sec 3004, Blk E Mosele Bldg
Filed by Brandon Burke of The Schneider Corporation
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Dave Sexton, THE SCHNEIDER CORPORATION
John Mosele
The applicant seeks to construct a building. The site is located just northwest of the intersection
of Horseferry Road and Bird Cage Walk. The site is zoned PUD /Planned Unit Development.
The building is a proposed two -story with offices on the second floor and retail/offices on the first
floor.
HOYES:
I sent a letter to B. Burke. We do not allow roof drains tied into our
regulated drain. It can go into an onsite then into us.
HILL:
The temporary construction street is it connecting to anything?
SEXTON:
No.
GROVES:
We will need you to call in new service request with load and Auto -cad.
Ron Booher is your contact.
SHUPPERD:
We have gas at the street. We will need service load sheet and size the
meter.
GAJOWNIK:
How many tenants?
MOSELE:
Two.
BLANCHARD:
No comments.
HOYT:
I sent a letter to B. Burke. Will this be sprinkled?
MOSELE:
Yes.
HOYT:
Two stories, no fire alarm and no basement?
MOSELE:
That is correct.
HOYT:
We want a Knox -box on the building.
BREWER:
You planted yews all around the air conditioning unit. You did three sides
why not all four?
MOSELE:
To service it.
BREWER:
Okay, The Brenwick building has a lot of trees and shrubs. I would
encourage you to do the same.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Should there be an access between that side door and the walk?
4/21 /04Tacminutes
16
HOYT:
MOSELE:
HOYT:
DOBOSIEWICZ:
MOSELE:
DOBOSIEWICZ:
It is called an Access to a Public Way.
This will not be an exit.
As long as it stays that way or you will need a walkway.
Outdoors seating?
Not likely.
Need to get your filing fee paid.
...END...
Docket No. 04040017 DP- Carmel Science and Technology Park, Blk 11, lot 4
Companion Animal Hospital (Development Plan)
And
Docket No. 04040015 SP
Carmel Science and Technology Park, Blk 11, lots 2 -4 (Secondary Plat)
Filed by Mark Monroe of Drewry, Simmons, Pitts Vornehm
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Mark Monroe, DREWRY SIMMONS PITTS VORNEHM
Dr. Anthony Buzzetti
Bob Doster, THE SCHNEIDER CORPORATION
Shawn Curran, CURRAN ARHITECTURE
The applicant seeks to construct a veterinarian office And to plat three commercial lots. The site
is located just southwest of the intersection of Carmel Dr and Guilford Ave. The site is zoned M-
3/Manufacturing Park District. The eight acres will be divided as follows. Three acres will hold
the Private Practice of Dr. Buzzetti and Associates. Eight acres will allow for a cul -de -sac that
services Dr. Buzzetti but also two future lots belonging to REI Investments.
HOYES: For the animal hospital you have encroachments for some of our
easements, which need to be corrected. On the roadway plans our standard
is fifteen feet easement top of bank to detention pond prior to the right -of-
way in the public road. The easements for this are platted. I am going to
bring this before the City of Carmel from a public safety standpoint in
relation to the location of that road to the pond.
DOBOSIEWICZ: What is the proposed dimension top of bank to right -of -way?
DOSTER: 115 feet top of bank to curb.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Is this a detention issue that the pond could be modified to provide fifteen
feet (15')?
DOSTER: We would have to extend the storm sewer. In the original design we have
excess volume.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
17
HOYES:
A regional pond for the whole area. We do not want to give up any storage
if we take some we need to add it back.
MONROE:
We will look into it.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Fifteen feet (15') center line on Carmel Drive or adjust it on the other end.
DOSTER:
It could be a simple waiver.
HILL:
Coordination of the roadway plans. Will you start the roadway
improvements the same time as the hospital?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
It will be hard to access the site without getting in the way of the road
improvements. You need to detail that on the plan.
DOSTER:
With a five feet (5') access easement across the frontage and leave a gap at
the western most edge of the property?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Our comment is along Carmel Drive. (inaudible) if engineering is willing to
provide another access.
HILL:
We will want to see the Carmel Drive plans.
DOBOSIEWCIZ:
Median planned?
HILL:
Yes. With a commercial platted subdivision there is bonding requirements.
GROVES:
We will need new service request, loading, updated hard copy and Auto
cad. I need easements between buildings three and four in the utility
easements. Make that inclusive with a ten feet (10') utility easement. Lot
two is electrically challenged.
SHUPPERD:
We have gas out there.
GAJOWNIK:
We need a street name for the cul -de -sac. B. Akers would like to know if
you want addressing off West Carmel Drive or the cul -de -sac. So if you
could let him know (571- 2586).
BLANCHARD:
The two rear exits on the south elevation must have a walkway to a public
way. Will there be a construction trailer?
MONROE:
Possibly.
BLANCHARD:
Every three thousand square feet of attic and floor space will need to be
draft stop if not sprinkled. I have a checklist for the pre submittal and
commercial procedures. Be sure to have all the signatures before
contacting our office to schedule a meeting and issuance of permits within
10 days after pre submittal.
HOYT:
I sent a letter to M. Monroe. I am assuming it is sprinkled.
Need to pick a location for connection to the hydrant. I did not see a
hydrant on the cul -de -sac.
DOSTER:
At the northwest end.
HOYT:
Knox -box on the building and caps for the connection. Will there be a
basement?
DOSTER:
No.
HOYT:
Actual height is two stories?
DOSTER:
Yes.
BREWER:
I sent a comment letter. We have species changes due to bugs. No Ash
planted and I sent substitutions for you. There are plans for Carmel Drive
Streetscape to extend up this way to the west so street trees are coming.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
18
DOBOSIEWICZ: On Carmel Drive the half right -of -way is identified in the Thoroughfare
Plans a forty -five feet (45') half that needs to be accommodated on the
Secondary Plat. On 122nd Street it is a seventy feet (70') half which
impacts slightly with the barrier where the road intersects along the south
side of 122 Street. The five feet (5') sidewalk is required. Minimum lot
size is 20,000 square feet your lot two is undersized. You will need to
modify it. Why did you elected not to show the area of the pond on the
Replat? We need to reach an agreement on walk between Carmel Drive
and Lennox Trace as part of this plat.
MONROE: There was a commitment made by the developer on the rezone that still
applies that there would be no sidewalk. We would have to change that
commitment
DOBOSIEWICZ: Get me more information on that. Addressing the Animal Hospital the idea
is to move the dog exercise area away from residential by eliminating the
parking on this side and putting it back in on the west side.
MONROE: Okay we can look into it but it is a medical observation area only.
DOBOSIEWICZ: We would need a commitment that animals would not be kenneled?
DOSTER: Landscape plan on the south edge that whole south side is a legal drain
easement and we need to move that planting to the north.
DOBOSIEWICZ: It is our desire that you take these plantings along this edge and with a
well- designed plan place them around the building and somehow improve
the street perimeters of the pond.
...END...
Docket No. 04030042 Z: Townhomes at Guilford PUD
Filed by Dave Sexton of the Schneider Corporation
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
Dave Sexton, SCHNEIDER CORPORATION
Neal Smith, PITTMAN PARTNERS
The applicant seeks to rezone approximately 9.5 acres from R -1 /Residence to PUD /Planned Unit
Development. The site is located at 1224 South Guilford Road.
HOYES:
W.R. Fertig Watershed with a point two -four (24) CFS. The Cinergy Wet-
land how far north does it go?
GROVES:
Not sure.
HOYES:
We have regulations on a Wetland.
HILL:
No comments.
GROVES:
We would like to get with Vectren and you to coordinate our comments.
SHUPPERD:
No comments.
BUTLER:
No comments.
HOYT:
No comments.
BREWER:
I left a message April 6 to request a complete Landscape Plan.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
19
DOBOSIEWICZ: We will need to table and reschedule this time for a later date because our
comments were not submitted. We may want to put this back on TAC in
May. I am disappointed that we did not receive the exhibits need for review
and now expected to go ahead to the Plan Commission. Land Use does not
comply with the ordinance.
...END...
Martin Marietta Materials Mueller Property South Sand Gravel Mineral Extraction
(Special Use)
Filed by John Tiberi of Martin Marietta Materials, Inc.
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONERS:
John Tiberi, Vice President, MARTIN MARIETTA MATERIALS
Dan Hoskins, Regional Operations, MARTIN MARIETTA MATERIALS
Wayne phears, PHEARS MOLDOVAN
Zeff Weiss, ICE MILLER
CITIZEN AUDIT:
Tom Yedlick
Bill McEvoy
Petitioner seeks approval to establish sand and gravel extraction operation on 96.921± acres. The
site is located at the southwest corner of the intersection of East 106 Street and Hazel Dell
Parkway. The site is zoned S -1 /Residence Low Density. December 2002 we submitted an
application in respect to this property of discussion, commonly known as the Mueller Property
South. In an initial meeting of February 13, 2003 we submitted an extensive response to request
for information in connection with our Special Use approval. Late yesterday we received a fax
from J. Dobosiewicz and in today's mail we received a letter sent to you by Mr. Sovas. We will
respond to those comments today.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Our Department received a copy of the response to the binder provided to
the Department.
TIBERI: Pursuant to the request, we gave handouts to the following:
M. Hollibaugh 3 Copies of complete Binder
G. Hoyt SPCC plan
J. Kendall Erosion Soil Control Plans
D. Hill Erosion Soil Control Plans
J. South Erosion Soil Control Plans
J. Chapman Erosion Soil Control Plans
S. Brewer Mining Reclamation and Landscape Plans.
DOBOSIEWICZ: Will you send us that list?
TIBERI: Okay, they were delivered per request March 17, 2004.
4/21 /04Tacminutes
20
HOYES:
We have one comment on the Blue Woods Creek or more commonly
known, Moffitt- Williamson Regulated Drain. Per Maintenance Agreement
you are to maintain the drain as long as you are mining in the area.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Can you provide a letter with the status of Martin Marietta's procedures
through your office pursuant to our moving forward with action by the
BZA or at what stage during that process you want that approval granted
prior to final action by the BZA or will you address that during or after that
process approval?
HOYES:
Do you have a termination notice from DNR an active permit to relocate
Blue Creek?
WIESS:
Yes.
TIBERI:
You have everything you need from Martin Marietta subject to the Bond
and Maintenance Agreement. The plan itself is being viewed acceptable and
these are some items you have to have in order for us to physically take
action.
HOYES:
The plans have been submitted and we will not approve plans until we have
the Bonds.
PHEARS:
At that point the plans would be approved?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Do you feel comfortable proceeding before that occurs? If we can get that
in writing?
HOYES:
When the plans are made we would need the amount of the bond for
reconstruction.
TIBERI:
We need a copy of the correspondence.
MCBRIDE:
Is there an existing Outlet Permit for Blue Creek into the Legal Drain?
HOSKINS:
We do have a discharge permit.
HOYES:
You may have a separate permit.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
With the State not the Surveyor's Office.
HOLLIBAUGH:
No comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
J. Kappel can we go through your letter point by point and address those
items?
WEISS:
What is Spectra's role through TAC and do we need to respond to his
letter forwarded to us by you?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Since we are not professionals in this area we hired a consultant who is to
review this matter and by forwarding their concerns from the requested
responses from you regarding the findings, which allows us to make
informed recommendations to the BZA.
WEISS:
He addresses things outside your Ordinance. Will you sift through those?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
You can raise the question when you feel the ordinance is not set up in a
manor which grants us the ability to make that decisively then I will follow
up with our legal council to make sure we are comfortable with proceeding
with and continuing that route.
PHEARS:
We might be able to expedite things, the second item was resolved and the
first we can resolve quickly.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Okay, in addition to what we area going to discuss today can we get a
4/21 /04Tacminutes
21
written response 15 days before the BZA meeting date
WEISS:
What are the meeting dates?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
May 24, 2004 and to stick with that date I would need it no later than May
7, 2004. Go ahead and send your notice. Use that meeting date we want
your notice and your certified letters to say that.
PHEARS:
Do you have a copy of the City's Noise Standards? J. Kappel do you know
what they are?
KAPPEL:
They are available on the Carmel's Web -site.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
So you need a copy?
WEISS:
Yes, we need a copy.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
We will get you a copy.
PHEARS:
Is it attached to the Mining Ordinance?
HOLLIBAUGH:
Yes.
WIESS:
Can someone from the City explain it to us? I want to make sure of what
we have to meet.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
If it is your feeling that we do not have a definitive Standard in regard to
noise then my response would be from an Industry Standard for the
operation in mining what is an acceptable level that is seen to protect the
public interest in other communities. So we are not generating something in
the absence of good information. If we do not have one provide us with
something we could feel comfortable going to the BZA and saying we do
not have this Standard in place that really addresses fully the mining
activity but Martin Marietta has provided us Standards in other areas of
operation seen as appropriate. We need to see that you have a plan in
place to protect the public with issue to noise.
WIESS:
I believe our material says that we will comply with the City's Noise
Ordinance or Standards. I suppose we can look at the Industries Standards.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
In absence of the Standard that specifically regulates your type of usage.
KAPPEL:
April 21, 2003 a letter from Mr. Tiberi says the City will receive Ambient
Noise Data. We have never received that.
PHEARS:
Is there an Industry Standard in New York.
KAPPEL:
There are multiple guidelines in New York. What Spectra is looking for is
to understand what your current noise propagations are and the impact to
the residents as you move closer to residential areas. Existing ambience can
be collected rather easily with variance differences from mobile machinery
to fix machinery and projections can be made toward residential properties.
We cannot assess without understanding the existing ambiences within the
community and ambiences from within the operations. There are companies
that specialize in these studies.
On 303: there is a discrepancy. Martin Marietta is willing to discuss hours
of operations. Moving overburdened is limited to daylight hours yet the
sand and gravel operation will go until 10:00 p.m. at night. Sand and gravel
is overburdened material it is not consolidated drop. Mobile sources which
4/21 /04Tacminutes
22
WEISS:
DBA loaders at fifty feet to 10:00 p.m. at night can be a concern to
residential properties.
TIBERI:
What is the distance?
PHEARS:
One thousand feet (1,000'), from the property line. We view overburdened
as waste material, squall material, not sand and gravel.
KAPPEL:
Overburdened is considered what is above the consolidated material. Are
you saying Topsoil or Clearing and Grubbing?
PHEARS:
I am saying that is how we viewed it not how you viewed it. We viewed it
WEISS:
as the material stripped to get to the sand and gravel.
KAPPEL:
Then you are talking Clearing and Grubbing. But similar equipment is used
for both applications and we still have the noise issue.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Then you should provide us a clear definition of work to be done on the
issue of hours of operation and then I do not want to enforce an approval
DOBOSIEWICZ:
by the BZA that says daylight hours. Because I will spend the rest of my
HASKINS:
time explaining what daylight hours mean. I think BZA will have problems
with that too.
WEISS:
Sunrise to sunset and it is published in the paper everyday it should not be
hard to understand
KAPPEL:
This actually wraps back to 301 if we could go back there. Martin Marietta
in the original application stated mobile equipment would be used
infrequently. Sand and gravel is dry operation that necessitates the use of
mobile equipment and if there could be an explanation of what
"infrequently" means and how that relates to mobile equipment use to
excavate sand and gravel.
WEISS:
We will respond to that with a letter.
KAPPEL:
And with the last point about noise if operations are going to occur a 10:00
p.m. at night we would want to know specifically noise propagation at
night and nighttime ambiance as they relate to noise propagation within the
facility.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Just so I understand everything is limited to 7:00a.m. 10:00p.m.
HASKINS:
We impose upon ourselves the schedule that our neighbors could
understand and so have a split schedule in the summer time starting half
hour before sunrise and ending at half hour after or at sunset.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
From my experience, the BZA would spend hours in that interpretation
when I would rather see it in a simple page spelled -out.
PHEARS:
We will write it out.
KAPPEL:
401 has been addressed.
Section 501: Is an observation, Head Data from February 10, 2003, which
was just submitted the request for information for inclusion of Data to the
Wittman Model. If the data existed and a request for information was made
in order to help the City in a working partnership to include them in the
City's Consultant's Model. What was the reason for lack of information or
presentation?
PHEARS:
We were in litigation at that time with the City. We did provide J. Wittman
4/21 /04Tacminutes
23
4/21 /04Tacminutes
24
as much information as we had.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Can we move forward then on 501 since it is just an observation?
PHEARS:
You just wanted to take the time to beat us up on the lack of response? If
you need additional information we can talk about that. The comment of
the Lake Elevation is unfair to us we did not know there was a lake.
HOSKINS:
We do not have a lake application.
KAPPEL:
On the reclamation for Mueller South as you read on, ground water
measurements and borings for the relocation of Blue/Williams Creek show
ground water higher than the floor, the pit on Mueller South. How does
the reclamation Mueller South square with areas to the north?
PHEARS:
Just tell us what you want us to submit. We know there are differences
over the floors and in fact an issue brought to our attention at the first TAC
meeting. As far as additional data what is it you need?
KAPPEL:
Will the pit be dry on the bottom floor? You have this as a dry reclamation.
Is it?
PHEARS:
Does the City want it to be?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
I believe that is your decision.
PHEARS:
As long as you do not say later that it is.
KAPPEL:
We do not have that option. The ground water table will make it a lake or
dry.
PHEARS:
Our Engineers say that we can.
KAPPEL:
What is their mechanism?
PHEARS:
Channels, sumps. It is outlined in the Plan.
KAPPEL:
Sumps that are control mechanically for final reclamation?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
I think the question the BZA will ask is does it make sense to
professionally operate pumps to keep it dry?
PHEARS:
So then are you recommending a wet reclamation?
KAPPEL:
No. It has been presented as Open Space Dry Reclamation.The ground
water head levels in the borings conducted during the relocation of
Blue /Williams Creek which indicate the ground water table is higher than
the pit floor so therefore you will get water which makes it a wet
reclamation.
PHEARS:
Where is the City's authority in the Ordinance?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Based on what you told us it is supposed to be dry and if you are telling us
you will pump it and our consultant is telling us it is not practical to pump
it into perpetuity. Our consultant is telling us that your proposal to make it
dry might have some problems in it. He is just advising us of that.
WEISS:
We will think about this.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
If you think it will be practical to pump it for long term, we do not, and
have the Board make a decision based on that.
KELSON:
We are looking for the original field operations used to calibrate the model.
We would like those. I believe he asked for those before and did not get a
response.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Can you get us a letter before May 24, 2004 of the status of the sand and
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gravel information request and its relevancy to the overall study?
PHEARS:
Can we get the model/study that the City has?
DUFFY:
I do not believe J. Wittman has completed the model.
KAPPLE:
503: Deals more in depth with what we have been discussing and lays out
in detail some elevations reserved in Martin Marietta's data presented to
date with comparison to the Mueller south floor of 720. This gets to the
heart of this conversation. We have elevations as high as 732 and floor at
720. Are we going to be wet or dry? We need to understand which one.
PHEARS:
From an engineering point would wet work there?
KAPPEL:
With proper consideration wet is done all the time but you want it to be a
decent water body and not a stagnant pond. The last point for 503 is a
letter sent to Mr. Tiberi, April 23, 2004 that Martin Marietta will complete
a Hydro -study with information recently obtained from the City. We are
looking for an update.
HOSKINS:
It is not complete.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Again how critical is the completion of this study for this activity?
PHEARS:
It is my understanding that the Sand and Gravel Application was not
significant to the water issues.
KAPPEL:
504: Just making sure we all have the same records. Details on
Blue/Williams Creek have been submitted.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
We cannot find record in our file of the referenced transmittal dated
February 25, 2003.
HASKINS:
We will get you a copy.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Of everything sent on that date.
KAPPEL:
601: Is a more definitive reclamation outline regarding such as, topsoil
for plantings if it is a dry reclamation etc.
HASKINS:
I guess if there is need for topsoil we will bring it in.
KAPPEL:
If you can state that in the reclamation.
HASKINS:
I believe we did.
KAPPEL:
602: Getting back into dry or wet we will look at that issue.
WEISS:
Do I sense correctly that you believe the water body is a better reclamation
plan because of your belief of the water table?
KAPPEL:
No. According to the data of the surrounding head it appears now that it
will be wet.
WEISS:
Do you and your staff have a problem with it being wet?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
No.
HASKINS:
In an existing operation channels would be drained back to our North
Indianapolis site.
KAPPEL:
During operations not reclamation?
HASKINS:
On the Reclamation Plan the channels or conveyances would be made such
that it would drain back to our facility.
KAPPEL:
During mining operations?
HOSKINS:
If you review the Erosion, Sediment Control Plan it addresses the two
alternatives as we are mining in relation to the Blue /Williams Creek with
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specific information and once we are in decline then there will be necessary
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channels or conveyances to correct any type of water into our existing
operation.
KAPPEL:
So it would be a wet condition and you will maintain it dry by these
conveyances? What happens when you are finished and the channels fill up
and no longer convey water?
HASKINS:
Then it will be a lake.
KAPPEL:
Then this is your plan?
WEISS:
We will address it through a letter.
KAPPEL:
603: general statements about these conveyances but no detailed analysis.
How much groundwater will be intercepted, will the conveyances be sized
properly.
604: Is a contradictory statement. It reads, "The property will become a
water impoundment or vegetated open space."
DOBOSIEWICZ:
What I would like to do for the BZA is ultimately said from a reclamation
standpoint we are satisfied and our consultant is satisfied that the plan
Martin Marietta has is satisfactory. The BZA will not want to hash through
what we had to over the past few years. The Martin Marietta's proposal is
for a wet or dry detention area and depending on one of those scenarios
they are proceeding in a manner found acceptable by our department.
PHEARS:
That sounds good.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
For the record, I am not pushing one way or another.
KAPPEL:
701: This ties into the same time frame as the information for the Wittman
Model, is it the same answer?
PHEARS:
Yes, we were in litigation.
KAPPEL:
703: Again there was several questions submit by a Utilities Consultant,
Mr. Wittman that were not addressed particularly questions four and five
but also your response 703 did not cover the comments regarding
dewatering.
PHEARS:
In what why?
KAPPEL:
In general terms. An elaborate question about dewatering and impact to
aquifers and the response was (interrupted)...
PHEARS:
Maybe we should have J. Duffy respond to that.
DUFFY:
I will when you get to me.
KAPPEL:
Okay, and our final two comments, number one was addressed,
dissemination of information and number two, understanding all three
applications.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Z. Weiss and I discussed having some dialogue for the need of the three
applications in a comprehensive format.
WEISS:
We understand your desire to look at them together but our need to look at
them one at a time for purposes pursuant to the BZA and their rules.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
I believe we cannot ignore them because all three applications are filed and
docketed. Give us a scenario of how to proceed with the other
applications.
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PHEARS:
We have a practical need to get the sand and gravel supply in there from an
operating standpoint. The other applications have something associated
with it this does not. Blasting being the primary and simplest of the
applications. The others are much more complicated from a ground water
standpoint. It is very important to us to get this straightforward and
uncomplicated in order to get it approved.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Can you provide Spectra with information that would make them feel
comfortable with the point you are at now and what those future scenarios
might be?
PHEARS:
It seems to me the only interrelation we have identified today is
reclamation. Future ground water issues will be modeled. There is not
interaction between sand and gravel and subsurface mining. I am not sure
what the difference is?
DOBOSIEWICZ:
A better question might be if you get approval from the BZA and
withdrawal the other two is Spectra comfortable were that sits and are they
comfortable with you moving forward on the surface limestone and
underground with the ability to add them to this analysis?
KAPPEL:
We would have to lay groundwork for future studies. The Wittman Model
has shown that most of the water handled comes from the sand and gravel
we cannot divorce ourselves from understanding the hydrogeology of the
sand and gravel.
PHEARS:
We will provide that information on the hydrogeology.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Can you give them the whole story on all three applications?
(Interruptions)
HOLLIBAUGH:
We are ready to move ahead with the review of the other two applications
through TAC so expect more review letters from us. How you respond to
that process of review will determine how quickly you get before the BZA.
WEISS:
Two south?
HOLLIBAUGH:
Yes.
DUFFY:
We have not received the Sand and Gravel Operation Book or the recent
ground water map. I would like those complete copies. We did have a
good meeting last year and our consultants did trade information. There
were legal issues at the time the information was lean but came around to a
point of understanding the general feeling we were going to be okay.
Having said that, we do not have all the information. We do not have this
recent application. Jack Wittman is not present, we do not have the map
and we still have questions, I believe we need another meeting before the
BZA meets. I propose we offer those questions to you prior to the
meeting, share with us all of your data for example your hydraulic model.
PHEARS:
I agree but Jack and Dave have been exchanging information...
DUFFY:
and they have but before the BZA meets I have to have a certain comfort
level. That is why I want another meeting. We are not going to get there
today.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Sand and gravel south?
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DUFFY:
Yes.
PHEARS:
We need Jack Wittman back for this meeting?
DUFFY:
Yes, he will be back next Wednesday.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
J. Duffy your review and your consultant's review are relative to all the
applications that Martin Marietta filed. I need at some point your
segmentation from your consultant and your concerns as we step down
through this process.
DUFFY:
I understand. We will be in touch with you guys and then we will meet.
HENSLEY:
No comments.
GRESKAMP:
No comments.
KEELING:
No comments.
GLASER:
No comments.
BREWER:
On the reclamation plan you have five species of trees for diversity
purposes I would like eight. Two more shade trees and one ornamental
tree.
HASKINS: We followed the guidelines you sent us.
BREWER: On the application north of 106 Street you have nine species of trees and I
am asking for eight. Because of the length of the segments and the lack of
diversity you increase the chances of disease.
DOBOSIEWICZ: and your comments are regarding the Sand and Gravel Application today.
BREWER: Yes.
MCBRIDE: New requirements State Rule 13 is now in effect and we are sharing in the
permit process with the County for our Rule 13 Storm Water Quality
Permit. We will be interested to see what program Martin Marietta has in
place to monitor contaminates in the dewatering operation like mineral
deposits, sediment and other elements considered contaminates by the
State. Some of those could be addressed by your NPDES permit.
We have also voiced concern repeatedly about the dewatering conduits
under Gray Road. We have a road project planned for widening and
improving Gray Road taking place this year and replacing what is now
culvert pipes with a bridge structure. At the point we will ask Martin
Marietta to make funds available to install separate conduit under Gray
Road to accommodate any dewatering equipment.
HASKINS: We put in additional pipes under Gray Road.
MCBRIDE: It is all going to come out.
PHEARS: The work that we finished last year at the City's request will have to be
removed?
MCBRIDE: This water has been pumped to the west side of Gray Road only to flow
back across and flood Gray Road we have concerns about that. Is there any
way to move that dewater operation further downstream?
HASKINS: I do not agree that we are the total cause of the flooding.
MCBRIDE: I did not say that. It is from the lake and creek.
PHEARS: Which lake?
MCBRIDE: Southwest corner of Gray Road and 106 Street. These are long standing
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concerns we would like to get addressed.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Would Martin Marietta be willing to memorialize those agreements in
writing?
HASKINS:
No I believe we should continue to meet and discuss.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Just make sure you follow up. Has Martin Marietta proposed any right -of-
way as part of this request?
HASKINS:
We did a draft dedication in the packet of information.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Then is the Engineering Department comfortable with that forty -five feet
half?
MRBRIDE:
The dedication on 106
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Yes. Are we going to look for installation of asphalt path pursuant to the
Thoroughfare Plan?
MCBRIDE:
Yes.
HASKINS:
The installation or show the area?
MCBRIDE:
Typically in development, which we are viewing this in a broad scheme
land use approval I would include the construction of the path.
WEISS:
We understand. Let me talk with them and get back to you on both.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Those are two things we would ask the BZA to require as a condition as
part of the approval. We are going to recommend that they approve the
petition subject to certain things.
WEISS:
We will consider your request.
MCBRIDE:
Lastly, I would like a full submittal for review.
HOYT:
Thank you for sending me the SPCC documentation. I would also request
Martin Marietta that if you update this information please send us a copy as
soon as possible. We treat that document special and it is on board our
HAZMAT Vehicle.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Will you get me a letter that says you received it?
HOYT:
My copy is date last year.
HASKINS:
April 1, 2003 is the most recent.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
G. Hoyt if you will provide me with a letter that says you are square.
DUFFY:
No further.
NORTHAM:
No comments.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
We need to meet outside TAC.
WEISS:
If we could recap, a response to your letter no later than May 7, 2004.
Provide full copies of the submittals to John Duffy. Can we deliver them to
one point or individually.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
Deliver them individually. I would contact individual TAC members to see
what they need and fax me that information.
WEISS:
Request for full copy is Duffy, McBride, and Hoyt.
DOBOSIEWICZ:
I would like both sides to summarize and compare notes. I want the BZA
to know we met all that was discussed at TAC.
PHEARS:
We will send you an e -mail.
HOYES:
Indiana Department of Natural Resources Permit FW21136 would be for
the reconstruction of Blue/Williams Creek although I do not have an
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Official Termination Permit says if the work is not initiated by January 30
2004 the permit shall become void and another needed.
HASKINS: We have started work and have documentation of that.
HOYES: We are acceptable to that.
DOBOSIEWICZ: I need a copy of your permit approval.
AKERS: No comment.
ALLEY: No comment.
END OF TRANSMISSION.
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