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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes SpecStdy 06-06-00CARMEL /CLAY PLAN COMMISSION SPECIAL STUDY COMMITTEE June 6, 2000 The regularly scheduled meeting of the Special Study Committee met at 7:05 p.m. on June 6, 2000 in the Caucus Rooms of City Hall, One Civic Square, Carmel, Indiana. Members present: Chairperson Paul Spranger, Leo Dierckman, Madeline Fitzgerald, Bob Modisett, Jim O'Neal, and Pat Rich. Dave Cremeans arrived at 7:18 p.m. Chairperson Spranger announced that Item No. 2 Dos. 106 -99 SP 107 -99 DP /ADLS Carmel Science Technology Park was tabled to the next Special Study meeting at the request of the petitioner. 1. Docket No. 97 -99 SP, West Carmel Center, Block D Target. Petitioner seeks approval to plat one lot on 24.848± acres in order to construct three commercial buildings. The site is located at 10401 North Michigan Road. The site is zone B- 3/business and is located within the US 421/Michigan Road Overlay Zone. Filed by Kevin D. McKasson of Glendale Partners. Paul Spranger suggested items 1 and 3 be considered together. 3. Docket No. 73 -00 DP /ADLS, West Carmel Center, Block D Target. Petitioner seeks approval to construct three buildings on 24.84± acres for a Target department store. The site is located at 10401 North Michigan Road. The site is zoned B- 3/business and is located within the US 421 Overlay Zone. Filed by Kevin D. McKasson of Glendale Partners. Kevin D. McKasson, Glendale Partners, introduced Carrie Buckley and Jamie Poczekay, American Consulting Engineers, and April Hensley, Leach Hensley Architects. The petitioner met with Target Corporate in Minneapolis today and finalized many of the details subject to what is decided tonight. The Target case appeared before the May Board of Zoning Appeals and received the required variances. Mr. McKasson displayed a site plan of the Target portion. He also cited an overall site plan of the project that was included in members' packets. Only Target plans are being presented for approval tonight. No more access points to Michigan Road will be required for the development to the south. Also no access points to Michigan Road will be need for their development that has been approved and Target. Sign sizes have been modified and reduced. The monument sign on the road has been changed to a brick sign with channel letters similar to the building sign. It is reduced to a 6' x 6' area. Pat Rice said BZA was satisfied with the changed. The largest sign has been reduced by 30 to 40 percent. The signs will have channel letters with bronze metal returns. The Target part of the sign is red. Laurence Lillig stated the Michigan Overlay allows a maximum sign area of 120 square feet. The Super Target sign was approved for a maximum of 300 square feet. It is 2.5 times larger than allowed without a variance. Kevin McKasson corrected his earlier statement regarding signage color. The signs are red and green. Plan Commission President Dave s: \plancommission \spst2000june.doc 1 Cremeans suggested smaller signs. He believes that approval of a large sign will cause the next project to request signage exceeding the Overlay standards also. Kevin McKasson wants to be as close to Ordinance requirements as possible and still satisfy Target corporate. He cited the mounding and landscaping planned to hide the building. However, the store needs identification. Mr. McKasson believes the sign is proportionate to the size of the building. Laurence Lillig answered that signage for the other front buildings could be 40 square feet. Kevin McKasson said this size is acceptable. Special Use approval in B3 zoning allows 40 square feet. The 120 square feet size is under 421 Overlay. Paul Spranger is concerned that larger signage for Target will set new standards for future development. Kevin McKasson said Target will not agree to smaller signage. Dave Creams is concerned with problems for other retailers who do not have large signs. He does not approve of throwing out the Ordinance with the first sign that comes in for approval. Michael Dugan, 3805 Carwinion Way, represents the Ashbrooke homeowners association. He supports the size of the Target sign. Leo Dierckman stated signage approval was done at BZA. Dave Cremeans added that Plan Commission controls ADLS approval. He is concerned that the first project will destroy the sign ordinance. Laurence Lillig commented that the staff recommendation for the Board of Zoning Appeals was that the signage should be consistent with the sign ordinance allowing 120 square feet. Paul Spranger inquired about the level of illumination. Kevin McKasson told the committee that the signs are lit with neon that is behind the plastic front. Their prior request allowed the department to determine if the illumination was too bright. Glendale Partners would be able to make that commitment on this project also. The Target and bulls eye portion of the sign are red. These are internally illuminated. Kevin McKasson does not know the level of illumination and the Board of Zoning Appeals did not deal with it. Glendale Partners will make the same commitment regarding illumination subject to agreement with Target. Dave Cremeans is in favor of the Target store but does not want the Michigan Road corridor to look like Keystone Avenue. Mr. McKasson responded that Target is trying to meet the stringent overlay district requirements. Leo Dierckman inquired about the monument sign. It is located at the southern portion of the parcel. It is six feet high and twelve feet wide. Laurence Lillig commented that the variance was not needed because the height was reduced. The color of the bricks used in the monument sign is the same red and brown used in the buildings. The color is called Patriot. The front of the Target store will be brick. A masonry material will be used for the sides and back of the building. It meets the code requirements. Paul Spranger said he received five phone calls all asking about brick on all sides of the building. He believes the south wall along 102' Street should be the same material as the front of the building. Brian Chapman, Olympia Partners, indicated the cost of using brick on all sides of the Target store would approach seven figures. Michael Dugan feels the side and back masonry product is a good compromise. s: \plancommission \spst2000june.doc 2 Kevin McKasson said the Patriot brick is a larger four -inch size. The masonry product will be the same size. Chairman Spranger added that since these buildings will be in place for a long time, he wants the south wall to be real brick also. Kevin McKasson could not commit to this request as the cost is too great. However, he will again ask Target management. Laurence Lillig said provisions are made for alternative materials. The name of 102 Street will change. Leo Dierckman also asked about cart corrals. Mr. McKasson stated the standard enclosure is constructed of corrugated metal. Target will provide a bronzed cart that matches the light poles. These are moveable to allow for cleaning and snow removal. The corrals are made of an anodized metal. Cart areas at the building will have walls and will be fully enclosed. There will be ground, up lighting on the building. Kevin McKasson stated at the day's meeting in Minneapolis, discussion included sconce lighting at the rear of the building. Leo Dierckman feels strongly that the cart corrals should be construction with roofs. He requested a sample of the proposed corrugated material. Bob Modisett inquired about the overall site plan for the area. Kevin McKasson stated the buildings now under construction are at the corner. They propose to do a building somewhat similar to the building presently under construction. It will have streetscape buildings blocking the front just as Retail A does. The middle parcel is the most technically difficult because there are pipeline easements north and south. The building to the south will be Home Depot, Mr. McKasson believes. They do not control Starvin Marvin, Porter Paint, or the lumber yard. Commerce Drive is to the rear of the project. It will be constructed to the southern property line as a secondary arterial road. A large concern for the subdivision is the traffic on Carwinion Way. The street will be made into a cul de sac, with egress for emergency vehicles, if the County approves. Target will try to prohibit commercial traffic by means of signage and converting the road into a cul de sac. Mr. Lillig believes Carwinion Way is a platted public street. If Glendale Partners fails to make it a cul de sac, they will try to limit traffic with signage. A sidewalk and bike path are planned for the neighborhood. There is proposed signalization at 102 Street. A "warrant" study is required by State of Indiana to obtain approval. A raised median is planned from 106 Street south. Glendale Partners will also constuct some raised medians at 102 Street. The State of Indiana originally designed it with raised medians and then backed off. Access is an important issue for Michigan Road. They now have all the access needed for the entire project. There is a full curb cut at the north portion of the parking lot. Site drainage is in place with the ponds between the subdivision and the development to the east. Mr. McKasson has agreed to landscape both side of Commerce Drive. Future office buildings will serve as a buffer. They introduced additional mounding with the Home Depot plan to further reduce the impact to the neighborhood. Jamie Poczekay commented that the road plan is set up to take care of its own drainage. Laurence Lillig added that there will not be another stop light between 96 Street and 102 Street. The department would not be supportive of one. A 90 foot right -of -way is being provided at s:\plancommission\spst2000june.doc the south. The thoroughfare plan that was adopted in November calls for a secondary arterial at that point. The 90 feet accommodates that. This will be the only significant intersection. Mr. Lillig affirmed that the plat documents have the deed of dedication on them. It is a matter of acceptance. A list of plant species has been provided. The petitioner committed to acccept staff plant recommendations. The code favors shade trees which are a definite part of this plan. However, a promise has been made to the neighbors to install evergreen trees for maximum screen. They will plant different types including white, spruce, Norwegian, and Austrians pines. Kevin McKasson will return to the next Special Study Committee Meeting with additional information regarding the cart corrals and brick on the south side of the building. Paul Spranger says this is a conventional development without pads and with substantially typical signage found anywhere USA. The difference is a brick facade on the street side. Kevin McKasson said they did meet the modified Georgian architecture requirement. Paul Spranger added the City is trying to recapture the character of 421 and to stay within the vision of the Ordinance. Madeline Fitzgerald requested commitments that there will be no outside storage, summer plant sales, bags of salt, etc. outside the building. Leo Dierckman suggested the petitioner look at Lowe's commitments. Mr. Lillig stated that Scott Brewer, Carmel Urban Forester, prepared a detailed memo on the landscape that was copied to Jamie Poczekay in which he attached four pages of alternative species. Laurence Lillig said that outdoor storage is not explicitly excluded in the 421 Corridor. The department has requested the intersection to the north (inside the parking lot) be addressed. The geometry may be incorrect. He requested the dimension be shown of the distance between the wall for the loading berth and the curb. It looks narrow. The department also requested an exhibit illustrating use of the golden section. That has not been received. Paul Spranger moved this case to the next Special Study Committee meeting on July 11, 2000. Jim O'Neal and Bob Modisett excused themselves for pressing issues at approximately 8:05 p.m. and 8:15 p.m. respectively. The Committee recessed from 8:22 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. 4. Docket No. 92 -00 ADLS Amend, Meridian Mark I Liberty Mutual. Insurance Petitioner seeks approval to erect a 67.5 square -foot sign reading "Liberty Mutual" with logo in place of the existing "GRE Insurance" sign with logo. The site is located at 11611 North Meridian Street. The site is zoned B- 6/business within US 31 Overlay Zone. Filed Scott C. Newby of Federal Sign for Liberty Mutual Group. s: \plancommission \spst2000june.doc 4 Jay Jolley, Signman, Inc. explained the petitioner's proposal to relocate the Liberty Mutual sign to the location of the existing GRE Insurance sign on North Meridian. He cited his handout. Laurence Lillig stated that the Meridian Mark location is approved for brass, back lit type signage. Mr. Jolley stated the Liberty Mutual sign is internally illuminated neon with remote transformers. It is white and blue acrylic. GRE insurance is a parent of Liberty Mutual. GRE is relocating. Laurence Lillig recognized the logo as representation for Indiana insurance. He said the Committee could approve the signage or send the case to the full Plan Commission. Mr. Jolley described the sign as aluminum channel letters, a blue return with white face and blue trim cabinets. The can is blue. Leo Dierckman thinks the signage is a step down for the building. He would prefer it match other signs. Mr. Jolley corrected his description. According to his drawings, the returns are bronze, the faces are white. The logo will have bronze return also. Paul Spranger would accept the sign if the Liberty Mutual portion was back lit and only the logo was internally illuminated. However, Mr. Spranger is aware that blue is part of Liberty Mutual's identification. Paul Spranger offered to call for a vote; but, he does not think the Special Study committee supports the request. Jay Jolley asked to have the matter tabled to the next meeting. Paul Spranger encouraged him to return with a different sign. Chairman Spranger tabled the matter to the next regularly scheduled meeting. Laurence Lillig clarified the situation. He stated if the petitioner returns with a sign that conforms to the ADLS for that building, then there is no need to go to Special Study committee. If the sign is redesigned so that it meets the requirements, staff can approve it and they will not be on next month's agenda. 5. Docket No. 93 -00 ADLS Amend, Hamilton Crossing West, Building 3. Petitioner seeks approval to set standards for tenant signage on a multi story, multi- tenant building. The site is located at 12800 North Meridian Street. The site is zoned B -2 /business within the US 31 Overlay Zone. Filed by Don Miller of Signs -by- Design for Duke -Weeks Realty. LP. Don Miller, Signs by Design, presented the case for the Hamilton Crossing III Building. It is the proposed site for Monroe Guaranty. The sign has individual illuminated channel letters. They are not back lit. Mr. Miller does not believe a standard has been set for this building. Laurence Lillig said he would be setting the standard with this project. An example of a letter was displayed. There will be two rows of neon inside that are powered by remote 30 mil amp transformers. It is possible to boost the power, but that burns the neon faster. Mr. Miller prefers to use the lower one. As an example of the amount of illumination, he cite the same type of letter used at the Hamilton Retail Center retail. This sign is proposed for the fourth story. It is 61.2 square feet in size-3.5' x 17'. s:\plancommission\spst2000june.doc Mr. Lillig stated this building is a multi story, multi- tenant building. Monroe Guaranty can, by Ordinance, erect a sign here without a variance. Any additional tenant signage that would be located on this building would have to go to the Board of Zoning Appeals for approval of the number of signs. Those petitioners would have to meet criteria decided tonight. A building of this type is allowed one wall identification sign and one ground identification sign. Building III has frontage on two public streets -126 Street and US 31. Hamilton Crossing Blvd. that passes through is not a public street. It is not entitled to signage. The proposed sign is in accordance with the Ordinance. Don Miller showed a sign example with clear face to better display the neon and can. The actual sign would not have clear front. Leo Dierckman feels the sign should be back lit. Signs by Design also manufactures back lit signage. Terry Jones suggested thought be given to the sign's appearance during the day. Paul Spranger suggested the petitioner consider a back lit sign and check the color of the building and the proposed sign. Pat Rice asked to see the sign again. Mr. Miller asked for a continuance to the July 11 agenda. If possible, the sign cases will be placed early on the agenda. The Committee complimented Mr. Miller on his presentation, signage display, and explanation of types of signage. Pat Rice moved to adjourn the meeting at 8:58 p.m. The motion was seconded. It cal Tied by unanimous voice vote. Paul Spranger, Chairperson Sue Ellen Johnson, Acting Secretary s:\plancommission\spst2000june.doc