HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 02-03-041,1`I y G`'`y of Cq,9y C ity
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
FEBRUARY 3, 2004
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Subdivision Committee met at 7:00 PM on Tuesday, February
3, 2004 in the Caucus Rooms of City Hall.
Members present: Stephanie Blackman; Dan Dutcher; Dianna Knoll; Rick Ripma; and Susan
Westermeier, thereby establishing a quorum.
Jon Dobosiewicz and Mike Hollibaugh attended the meeting on behalf of the Department of
Community Services.
Stephanie Blackman was elected chairperson by unanimous consent.
The Subdivision Committee met to consider the following items:
1. Docket No. 119 -03 PP #03080005) Freiburger Mitchel Farms Primary Plat
The applicant seeks approval for a 3 -lot subdivision. The site is located at the southwest
corner of 141st Street and Spring Mill Road. The site is zoned S -I /Residence Very Low
Intensity.
Filed by Allan Weihe at Weihe Engineers on behalf of J.R. Freiburger.
Dave Barnes of Weihe Engineers, 10505 North College Avenue, Indianapolis appeared before the
Committee representing the applicant, J.R.Freiburger. The petitioner is requesting Primary Plat
approval for a 3 -lot subdivision located on 141 Street, immediately west of Spring Mill Road.
All utilities are in place; lots 3 and 2 are unchanged; the only addition will be a house on lot one
that James Freiburger intends to construct.
Department Report, Jon Dobosiewicz. Jon stated that at the public hearing, the Department
recommended approval if there were no outstanding issues. For the benefit of the new members,
this item was sent to Committee for review. One item raised by the public at the hearing was
existing wildlife on the property and a question from a Commission member regarding tree
removal on the site. It is the Department's understanding that the only change is the house that
will be constructed; no trees will be removed and the area will remain heavily wooded. Regarding
natural habitat, there are only three lots, and they are larger lots as well and the existing tree line
will remain. There are no outstanding issues from TAC review.
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In response to questions from Stephanie Blackman, the applicant stated that this Subdivision will
not be a gated community. There is an existing drive to the Subdivision that will access the lots.
Dianna Knoll moved for favorable recommendation of Docket No. 119 -03 PP 903080005)
Freiburger Mitchel Farms Primary Plat to the full Commission, seconded by Dan Dutcher, and
approved 5 -0.
2. Docket No. 188 -03 PP #03120002): Chateaux de Moulin Primary Plat
The applicant seeks to plat a 6 -lot subdivision. The applicant also seeks the following
subdivision waivers:
188 -03a SW 903120005) SCO 6.3.7 cul -de -sac length
188 -03b SW 903120006) SCO 6.3.20 private street
188 -03c SW #03120032) SCO 6.3.3 stub street
The site is located west of 116th Street Spring Mill Road. The site is zoned S-
2 /Residence.
Filed by Joseph Calderon of Ice Miller for Campbell Development 2, LLC.
Joe Calderon, of Ice Miller, attorneys, appeared before the Committee representing the applicant.
The petitioner is requesting approval to plat a 6 -lot subdivision located west of the intersection of
Spring Mill Road and 116 Street, as well as three subdivision waivers as specified. The smallest
lot in the proposed Subdivision is one acre. The property is zoned S -2.
The applicant is requesting waivers for the cul -de -sac length, private streets that will allow a gate,
and permission not to connect to the property on either side.
Joe Calderon explained that right -of -way will be dedicated on 116 Street, and a turn- around
situation has been created before the gate is reached. The gate is set back substantially from the
right -of -way into the property to the south of the turn- around area. The turn- around allows
people to head out rather than back out if they change their mind and do not wish to enter the
subdivision. An entry wall has been created that matches the flavor of the development. The
entry wall and landscaping will meet the standards that have been established.
The six lots are very large lots; the minimum square foot home will contain 4,500 square feet.
Because the Subdivision is very low volume, there are no compelling reasons not to provide a
gate. The Police and Fire do not think that access is a problem.
Stephanie Blackman stated that generally speaking, she is not in favor of gates; they look
unfriendly and set a pretentious tone for an area that is not necessarily in the best interest of
Carmel. There are some circumstance where a gate is warranted, but that is not apparent in this
instance. Springmill and 116 Street is a busy area —the minute a request is granted for a gate,
there will be many more requests for gated areas. Ms. Blackman reiterated that she is not in favor
of a gated community.
Rick Ripma said he liked the gate —there are several gates along 116 Street and it is normal for
this area to have gates —one more gate is not going to make a big difference. It is not unusual for
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the area and the gate is set back quite a distance and will not be as obvious. However, there was
an issue brought up at public hearing and Mr. Ripma asked for clarification.
Joe Calderon responded that Steve Granner had appeared at public hearing representing some of
the neighbors. The petitioner has worked with Mr. Granner and the neighbor issues have been
worked out. An adjoining property owner immediately to the west is now fine with this proposal.
In working through concerns, the petitioner has agreed to have buffer landscaping at the bend in
the road and will extend to the retention pond. In addition, there is an existing lake to the south
of the property that is owned by the Hilbert family and the lake from the proposed subdivision will
drain into the Hilbert lake. The Hilbert family was concerned about access to the lake, and the
applicant has agreed to install a wrought -iron fence around the retention pond that would
discourage access to the lake to the south. The wrought -iron fence has been agreed upon, and
will be finalized in some form of written commitment
Mark Zuckerman stated that in a follow -up meeting at Phil Nicely's office, the location of the
fence was discussed as well as the walk and landscaping along the northern border of the Hilbert
property. Mr. Zuckerman was more concerned with saving the existing, larger trees and the
location of the fence; the Hilberts were more concerned with access to their property and pond.
Stephanie Blackman asked for formal, written commitments regarding the concerns raised by the
neighbors.
Department Report, Jon Dobosiewicz. Jon referred to the subdivision waivers as well as the
primary plat request for approval. The information submitted at the January meeting included two
renderings of the Subdivision layout —those renderings may have been alternatives that would be
more closely in compliance with the Ordinance. Observations from the Department were that the
property to the east would likely be developed residentially, similar to Williams Mill, higher
density, 2.6 units per acres, whereas the current proposal is less than one unit per acre. From a
public safety standpoint, the connection is not mandated by the Thoroughfare Plan and the
Department is in support of the request for the stub street waiver as well as the cul -de -sac length.
The other issue is with the private streets, and the standards for review are covered in the
Department Report.
Dan Dutcher was grateful for the list of criteria provided by the Department that is helpful in
reviewing this kind of request. Mr. Dutcher commented that the request for private streets seems
to be becoming a trend. The request for private streets is associated with a very high -end
development and is a marketing tool again, this argument is a concern.
Joe Calderon stated that the petitioner will be appearing before the Board of Zoning Appeals to
request a 25 foot front yard setback as opposed to a 35 foot setback.
Rick Ripma asked about the private streets ownership and maintenance. Jon Dobosiewicz
responded that the Subdivision will own the street, it is not a public right -of -way. The streets are
being built to public standards.
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Joe Calderon clarified that initially, the private street will be a development cost, the maintenance
costs will then be borne by the Homeowners Association.
Dianna Knoll moved to recommend approval of Docket No. 188 -03 PP Chateaux de Moulin to
the full Commission, seconded by Rick Ripma, approved 3 in favor, 2 opposed (Blackman and
Dutcher.)
Dianna Knoll amended her motion to include the aforementioned commitments, approved by
unanimous consent.
3. Docket No. 189 -03 PP #03120003):
Carlson Corner Subdivision (Minor)- Primary Plat
The applicant seeks to plat a 4 -lot subdivision. The site is located at the SE corner 141 st
St /Towne Rd. The site is zoned S -1 /Residence Estate.
Filed by Craig Carlson of The 4 C Group.
Chris Badger, Badger Engineering, appeared before the Committee representing the applicant.
The applicant is requesting approval for a primary plat on property located at the southeast corner
of 141S Street and Towne Road. The proposal is for four lots: one, four -acre lot, three lots,
approximately one and one -half acre. (plus or minus.)
The petitioner has agreed to the location of two access points for the four lots: one to Towne
Road, one to 141s' Street. The access points will service all four lots within the subdivision.
Craig Carlson intends to construct his private residence on the four -acre lot.
Department Report, Jon Dobosiewicz. At the public hearing, Wayne Haney had asked for more
graphic details on access and paths. Two driveway cuts will be decided now, everything else will
need to be recorded on the secondary plat as a non access easement. Once the location for two
driveway cuts is determined, the Department would request a non access easement for the other
lots at the secondary plat stage.
The applicant agreed to show a drawing at the full Commission meeting with "dashed lines" to
indicate location of the proposed homes, and the location of the current home and driveway.
Dianna Knoll moved to recommend approval to the full Commission of Docket No. 189 -03 PP,
Carlson Corner Subdivision (Minor) Primary Plat, seconded by Dan Dutcher and approved 5-
0.
4. Docket No. 195 -03 PP #03120011): Schaffer Subdivision- Primary Plat
The applicant seeks to plat a 54 -lot subdivision on 41 acres The site is located at the
northwest corner 131st St/West Rd. The site is zoned S -1 /Residence Estate.
Filed by Jeff Douglass of Insight Engineering for Pittman Partners.
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Steve Pittman of Pittman Partners appeared before the Committee representing the applicant.
The petitioner is requesting Primary Plat approval for a 54 -lot Subdivision located at the
northwest corner of 131S Street and West Road.
The applicant has met with the Austin Oaks neighborhood in response to landscape buffer. The
streets are single- loaded; in addition, common areas have been created for an aesthetic appeal.
There will also be wrought -iron fencing with masonry columns along West Road and 131S Street
at the entry along with heavy landscaping, divided median and tree -way.
A ten -foot asphalt trail will be constructed along 131S Street and along West Road. The sidewalk
will be continued to the trail at the cul -de -sac and will have a gate with wrought -iron fencing. An
access easement is also being provided to the common area that will be connected by the trail.
The petitioner is working with Mrs. Greer, one of the neighbors, in regard to mounding and
landscaping at her southwest corner and the petitioner's property line. Mrs. Greer will be
providing a landscape and maintenance easement and the petitioner will mound the corner,
landscape it and maintain it and provide a nice buffer.
Department Report, Jon Dobosiewicz. Jon referred to an email that was sent to the Commission
members by adjoining residents. The petitioner will return to the Commission in February for a
public hearing on the two waiver requests. The Department is recommending that those two
items would be forwarded to Committee.
Jon reminded the Committee that the role of the Plan Commission is not to decide how the
property will be developed per the petitioner, but rather review the petitioner's proposal to
determine its conformance with the ordinance. This item will return to the Technical Advisory
Committee for drainage review at Secondary Plat to make sure the issue is addressed.
Members of the public were invited to speak at this time.
Charles James, owner of 12 acres that border the property, stated that when he purchased his
property to build their family "dream home," it was designated S- I and he thought it meant one
acre plus. Mr. James felt that a map should be published showing the zoning designations and
their definition, because the S -1 designation was misleading.
Michael Haffey, 13232 West Road, closest to the proposed development, said Steve Pittman had
not spent a lot of time talking with the residents in his immediate area. If Steve Pittman were
sincere in his attempt to work with the area neighbors, why would he not come to Mr. Haffey and
discuss the buffer with him and his neighbors rather than those neighbors in Zionsville. Mr.
Haffey was hopeful that he and his neighbors could meet with Mr. Pittman.
Dr. Finley Greer, owner of the property in the southwest corner, stated she is one of the original
residents of the area. Dr. Greer said it has been a joy to work with Steve Pittman and has had
ample notice of intention to develop as opposed to the development of Austin Oaks with
notification 10 days prior and little to no contact with the developer. Dr. Greer said she had
come to the understanding that if you don't own it, you don't control it; however you can work
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with the people who do own it and develop it.
Deborah Chomak, 12280 West Road, expressed concern about property values —spoke at public
hearing.
Steve Pittman addressed the homeowners in attendance. Steve said he had met with them and the
homeowners offered to buy the property; Steve said any sale would have restrictions not to
develop. To date, nothing has come forward. Steve said his goal is to have the highest end
development with the least amount of impact on adjoining property owners; Steve is always
willing to meet with adjacent homeowners and listen to their input.
Stephanie Blackman commented that there still is some room for negotiation—realism against
expectation. Mr. Pittman said he was certainly willing to meet with the homeowners.
Dan Dutcher commented that there should be some degree of reasonableness reached and the
Committee was willing to help.
Dan Dutcher moved to Table Docket No. 195 -03 PP, Schaffer Subdivision Primary Plat to
the March committee meeting, seconded by Dianna Knoll, and approved 5 -0.
5. Docket No. 196 -03 PP Amend; #03120012); Heather Knoll Subdivision
The applicant is requesting approval of an amended Primary Plat to allow 79 lots on
39.587 acres The site is located northwest of 141st St and Towne Rd. The site is
zoned S -1 /Residence Very Low Intensity. The petitioner also seeks approval of the
following Subdivision Waiver:
196 -03a SW #03120013) SCO 7.1 subdivision base density
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Assoc. for Pittman Partners.
Neal Smith, 13580 Ashbury Drive, Carmel, appeared before the Committee representing Pittman
Partners. The petitioner is requesting approval for an amendment to the Primary Plat for Heather
Knoll to allow 79 lots on 39.587 acres. Initially, Primary Plat approval was granted in November
2003 and the project consisted of 32.587 acres and 57 lots.
The petitioner was encouraged to work with adjacent property owners to the west in order to
help Carmel build the road connection up to 146 Street as shown in the Thoroughfare Plan. An
agreement has been entered into with Mr. Hubbard for an additional 7 acres located in the 2900
block of West 141s' Street, east of Shelborne, west of Towne, north of and adjacent to 141s'
Street, and south of and adjacent to 146 Street.
The petitioner is also requesting a Subdivision Waiver for the base density. The project now
consists of 39.587 acres, zoned S -1 very low intensity, that allows 1.3 units per acre with 15%
open space. The petitioner's plan contemplates 1.99 units per acre, 79 home sites, with 32%
open space. Based on the amount of open space, 1.63 units would be allowed. The petitioner's
open space consists of 12.58 acres designed as natural open space.
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The average lot size is 11,000 square feet, just over one quarter acre. Trails are incorporated into
the plan that will connect the open space.
Department Report, Jon Dobosiewicz. The petitioner has provided a pathway connection up to
146' Street along the back -side and access to the open area for the residents within the
subdivision. The subdivision waiver request is basically to yield the 6 additional lots alongside the
street. The trade -off is the 7 -acre parcel that today is not part of Heather Knoll. The road the
City would like to have constructed is the last leg of the network constructed over the last two
years starting with Hayden Run, traveling north. The only way for the City to get the roadway
constructed was to ask the developer to approach the property owner for the sale of the ground
and then indicate to the developer that the City would support relief from the Ordinance so the
street could be double loaded.
Dan Dutcher commented that he was not thrilled with the additional density, but understood the
situation and the trade -off for the benefit of the community and the City.
Jon Dobosiewicz commented that the additional density computes to 5 or 6 houses. What this
proposal does for traffic circulation in the area is actually is better —and there are more houses.
Dianna Knoll moved to forward Docket No. 196 -03 PP Amend, Heather Knoll Subdivision
and 196 -03a SW to the full Plan Commission with a positive recommendation, seconded by Dan
Dutcher and Approved 5 -0.
There being no further business to come before the Committee, the meeting was adjourned at
8:00 PM.
Stephanie Blackman, Chairperson
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
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