HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 03-02-041,1`I y G`'`y of Cq,9y C ity
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, MARCH 2, 2004
Minutes
The Subdivision Committee of the Carmel Plan Commission met at 7:00 PM on March 2, 2004 in the
Council Chambers of City Hall, Carmel, Indiana.
Members present: Stephanie Blackman, Rick Ripma, and Susan Westermeier, thereby establishing a
quorum.
Mike Hollibaugh, Director, attended the meeting on behalf of the Department of Community Services.
John Molitor, legal counsel, was also present.
The Subdivision Committee considered the following items:
1. Docket No. 195 -03 PP #03120011): Schaffer Subdivision
The applicant seeks to plat a 54 -lot subdivision on 41 acres The applicant also seeks
the following subdivision waivers:
195 -03a SW 904010008) SCO 6.3.15 street curvature
195 -03b SW 904010009) SCO 6.4.1 block length
The site is located at the northwest corner 131st St/West Rd. The site is zoned S-
1 /Residence Estate.
Filed by Jeff Douglass of Insight Engineering for Pittman Partners.
No Tape Record. The Committee forwarded this item to the full Commission meeting on March
16, 2004 with a positive recommendation.
2. Docket No. 04010027 OA:
Proposed Chapter 23F: Range Line Road /Carmel Drive Overlay Zone
The petitioner seeks to add new provisions regarding development standards for
properties along portions of Range Line Road and Carmel Drive to the Zoning Ordinance.
Filed by the Department of Community Services.
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Randy Sorrell. If they were to remodel and expand by 35% which exceeds the 20 does that
automatically negate their opportunity because they are now in the prohibited use? (Committee
response: Yes) That is disturbing —that is why we are here.
Maureen "Mo" Merhoff, Carmel Chamber of Commerce. Appendix A that was distributed
did not have the list of Additional Prohibited Uses. (Mike Hoillibaugh referred Mo to the
website) The other question is that of the existing businesses, who would conform to this today,
because I am hard pressed to come up with one—Stewart Stewart was completed this last
year, and they don't make it —they have Carmel parking. Shapiro's might. If you make a turn to
the east along Carmel Drive, none of the establishments is real old, and none of them could
expand more than 20% and I believe there are several considering that. (The Fountains, Kroger,
there is a variety) If you took a look at this and identified who makes it now, we are talking
about a wholesale eventual re -do. I guess 40 years ago it would have been easy to look at
undeveloped land and make some precise choices; that becomes extremely difficult with
businesses today.
Don Dunkerly, Dunkerly Real Estate, 30 South Range Line Road, agreed with Randy Sorrell.
Don said if he could not expand and needed to do so—if he were not allowed to expand 20 he
would be out of business or would have to re- locate, especially if the "Johnny come lately" folks
have decided they don't like you anymore.
John Kirby, 98 West Carmel Drive, said he understands that the City has a plan and a lot of uses
don't match the plan. This proposal is hitting close to home. A few comments I heard, "Not
interested in maintaining status quo." That comment was made during the discussion regarding
building setbacks. John Kirby said most of his buildings were built to the required set backs at
that time, so status -quo is looking at a scenario where buildings had 50 -60 foot setbacks,
whatever they were. Now, the City comes along and says they don't want to maintain status quo.
The concern is that ten years from now, there may be a new status quo that we don't want to
maintain, and you put someone who has invested their life love, money, time, etc. in the
Community in an uneasy feeling when you want to change. It makes it difficult when you are
trying to abide by what is there now and what the proposed changes are. It just rubs the wrong
way when you say, "People aren't necessarily going to like it, but the City will not budge." I
guess I kind of feel sick of my local government....nothing personal.
"At what percent do you allow a business or use to grow without coming in line with what you
are trying to accomplish I understand you don't want to continue to have a used car lot grow
or some such thing, and my little world is West Carmel Drive, so I can't vouch for the people on
Range Line. I've been looking at them a long time, been here all my life, I would think the City
would things to grow. Eight things, real quick:
Has this been done before in Carmel on existing property, an Overlay such as this?
Mike Hollibaugh cited examples such as Old Towne, Home Place, US 31, and US 421
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John Kirby, further comments: 0% of a building being damaged would require it being brought
into conformance. If there were a fire, it would probably be localized. Mr. Kirby referred to a
statement from John Molitor that in the event of 40% damage, tenant leases would be null and
void. Mr. Molitor then explained his statement.
John Kirby asked Mike Hollibaugh what would the second floor be used for? What is the City
after, retail on the first floor, apartments on the second floor?
Mike Hollibaugh responded that it could be office space, apartments, whatever works, whatever
the market will bear.
John Molitor said if the use is not allowed now by Ordinance, we would have to make changes to
the Ordinance to ensure that it is allowed.
John Kirby: Would residential be permitted in the I -1 District? Who would want to live on
Carmel Drive? John Kirby also said he has a two -story building at 160 West Carmel Drive, that
he almost had to fight for the use and did end up getting a variance for a mixed-use—
approximately 7 years ago. 20% is area. Getting back to renovation of a building, and wanting to
keep it inside a theme that would fit with the City, what if the building is already an eyesore? Mr.
Kirby said he has some old buildings that are old warehouse -type buildings that he has been trying
to renovate to bring more in line with what Carmel Drive is. According to this proposed Overlay,
it doesn't look like he would be able to do that. Is that something that would be done on a
variance basis, item -by -item? At what point does it become too much hassle? If you already have
a building and would like to up -grade at least one step, maybe not into conformance with the
long –term goal, wouldn't the City rather have a "Class B rather than Class D."
Mike Hollibaugh: ADLS was added to I -1 District last year. You probably wouldn't be able to
do what you did there, but.....
John Kirby said that as a landlord, you want to reinvest and make it better. If it makes it more
difficult to move -up a step, and there are more loopholes, if it becomes too difficult, you are likely
to say "forget it!"
Stephanie Blackman said that in trying to establish the Overlay and what the City is want to
accomplish, there is a fine line between previous character and what the City would require
without purging so much it would destroy the character.
For the next Committee meeting, here are the goals:
1) Leave the public hearing open
2) Begin going through the Ordinance section -by- section, making sure that we're OK
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I think there were a lot of questions up front that could have been answered. We are ready to
start with that next time. Just for public info, committees are usually the first Tues of each month
but because of spring break, it will be the 4th Tues, the 30 of March. Any other interested
members of the public should be made aware of that too.
Stephanie asked that clarifications be made and the process expedited. Perhaps provisions and
guidelines from other Overlay Zones could be looked at. A map of the area should be shown
visuals as to what we are actually dealing with, and additional language incorporated
3. Docket No. 04020004 OA
Amend Sections 6.03.19, 6.03.24, and 6.03.25: Alley Frontage Place
The petitioner seeks to add amend sections of the Subdivision Control Ordinance
regarding.
Filed by the Department of Community Services.
This tape contains background discussion of the Alley Frontage Place Ordinance, nothing clear
or definitive.
In the foreground is a conversation between John Molitor and Mark Rattermann regarding the
Westfield annexation.
The meeting adjourned approximately 9:00 PM.
Stephanie Blackman, Chairperson
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
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