HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 09-09-041,1`I y G`'`y of Cq,9y C ity
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
Subdivision Committee Minutes
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 2004
REPRESENTING THE CITY OF CARMEL:
Stephanie Blackman
Dan Dutcher
Rick Ripma
Susan Westermeier
REPRESENTING THE DEPARTMENT:
Adrienne Keeling
Jesse Pohlman
Matt Griffin
Of Counsel:
John Molitor
Docket No. 04060029 PP: LongRidge Estates
Docket No. 04060030 SW SCO 7.02; Open Space Requirements
Docket No. 04060031 SW SCO 6.04.01; Block length
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONER:
Steve Pittman, PITTMAN PARTNERS
Neal Smith, PITTMAN PARTNERS
Dennis Olmstead, STOEPPELWERTH ASSOCIATES
Dave Compton, PULTE
PUBLIC REMONSTRANCE:
Brett Henry, KRIEG DEVAULT
The applicant seeks to plat a residential subdivision of approximately 180 lots on 127.57± acres
and Subdivision Waivers. The site is located on southeast of West Road and 141st Street. The
site is zoned S -1.
Pittman: In response to the public hearing comments, (passing out exhibits) we have a
density chart that will show how the ROSO works in relation to LongRidge. We
are asking for a density bump. The calculation states permitted density times base
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density, one plus 1.5 times the open space percentage in our plat minus the
Standard Open Space Requirement.
And with that calculation with lots at 100 feet wide we are allowed 160 home
sites. We are asking for 180. For every lot that is removed from the plat is replaced
by additional open space. So, if I kept my lot at 100 feet wide and reduced lots one
at a time to meet the density calculation to 168 units that would give me 35.67
percent open space. With that in mind, that would not pay for the improvements
we are proposing. If we increased our lots to 180 and decreased the lot size to 80
feet wide we would create 43.02 percent open space. We would prefer 180 units,
100 feet wide lots as proposed.
We have a standard that we have to use for perimeter roads and overall quality of
roads. If you look at the letter for Developer's Thoroughfare for roads they want a
minimum of 12 feet pavement section with a three feet shoulder. However
Carmel's Thoroughfare Plan shows two 12 feet sections with chair back curb.
Although we understand we do not have to build both sections, we will do one and
the money set -aside for improvements deemed necessary by the City and /or
Pittman Partners.
(Letter submitted into the record from Jon Moore, Wabash Medical)
(Letter submitted into the record from NF Engineering to Pittman Partners)
Another issue is our access, and according to the ordinance we are far enough
away from the 136 Street as it comes through Stanford Park. We are about 650
feet away, which is an adequate distance. I would also like to submit a set of
recorded Commitments in draft form. committing to meet all perimeter buffer
requirements. Item "B" property owner Henry, has concern with horses becoming
an attractive nuisance and would like buffering. At owner's option and cost we will
replace and install a wrought iron fence. We would leave the fence that is there and
erect the new wrought iron fence in front of the old. Committing the site will be
developed utilizing ROSO and any improved variance requests. Also agreeing to
meet all erosion control from Hamilton County Soil and Water. Item "E" the
owner will provide and construct three regulation size, multi purpose fields to the
Carmel Dad's Club and a minimum of 160 parking spaces shown on the plans
described in "Exhibit C" Carmel Dad's Club (CDC). The CDC fields that will be
deeded to the Carmel Dad's Club will contain a Deed Restriction that will not
allow the development of this property for any use than that approved by the CDC.
The CDC will be responsible for maintaining the fields consistent with the common
areas. The CDC fields will not have night lighting. When not in use they will be
open to the residents who own the real estate.
Item "F" road improvements to 131S Street and Shelborne Road. These
improvements will be outlined in a separate letter to the Department, which has
been sent. Exhibit D, 141S Street there is a drainage pipe that must be extended
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and improved. On West Road there are two pipes illustrated in the letter as 1, 2,
3. Item "H" states that the Owner further agrees to install fifteen (15) Norway
Spruce, three groupings of five on the real estate adjacent to the residents known
as 3725 3731 Tara Court, which satisfies their contest. Item "I" All residents
and potential units being built on the real estate will contain a minimum of 2400
square feet above grade. No ranches all two -story and vinyl siding is prohibit on
the residences. This is not in the category of affordable housing $400,000.00. Item
"J" cannot guarantee spill over lighting but will adhere to City Standards.
Blackman: Department comments?
Keeling: We have received all the Commitments and request forwarding to the full Plan
Commission.
Blackman: Open to public:
Henry: On behalf of Jim and Marcia Henry, 1350 Shelbrne Road. Submits a letter in
opposition to and remonstrance against the above referenced proposed
subdivision.
(Letter submitted into the record from Jim and Marcia Henry)
Blackman: Committee comments? S. Pittman you reference the lighting and decel earlier?
Pittman: Yes, I have an exhibit on the decel lane. Carmel's connectivity plan encourages
aligning entrances. Exhibit three by Stoeppelwerth, which would require the
purchase of or trade off of .106 acres or approximately 4,300 square feet. We
requested to take minimum acres and have staked that right -of -way for the d -cell.
Item Four, They have asked for no sidewalk in the common area from Shelborne
to first lot. I do not think that is unreasonable—if the Committee and Department
are willing to support that. Drainage problems—we will not fix all the problems
that are out there but ours will not create more. Gas water sewer, we are willing to
bring it to their property line.
Blackman: Additional comments?
Ripma: When do the fields go in?
Pittman: This fall we will start the mass earthwork so no field until spring. We can make
that a Commitment.
Ripma: Item "I I would like to see a Commitment from Pulte Homes that they will all be
two story.
Blackman: Any other comments?
Department: The planning process is administerial as long as they meet the requirements. The
Plan Commission can only do what they believe is the best for the community to
help offset the traffic. We cannot deny a plat based on 180 more homes.
Dutcher: I like the amount of green space. Suggest we look into the traffic problems we
have significant problems already in Western Clay Township. The waivers are
reasonable and I am comfortable to move this forward.
Blackman; I will move this forward subject to the Commitments.
Ripma: Sidewalk on both sides would make people cross the street at the intersection and
should be on both sides.
Pittman: If we have twenty feet we can get that with the buffer.
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Blackman: Motion?
Dutcher: Move to approve; Dockets 04060029 PP LongRidge Estates; 04060030SW Open
Space Requirements Waiver; 04060031 SW Block Length, contingent upon written
recognition of agreement between the parties of the remaining issues prior to the
full Plan Commission.
Ripma: Second.
Motion carried; four (4) in favor zero (0) opposed.
...END...
Docket No. 04060032 PP: The Lakes at Towne Road
Filed by Dennis Olmstead of Stoeppelwerth Associates
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONER:
Sheldon Phelps, TOWNE ROAD PROPERTIES
Dan Schiffhauer, TOWNE ROAD PROPERTIES
Dennis Olmstead, STOEPPELWERTH ASSOCIATES
REMONSTRANCE:
Dr. John Smith, 2885 west 131 Street
The applicant seeks to plat a residential subdivision of approximately 54 lots on 40.39± acres.
The site is located on southwest of Towne Road and 136th Street The site is zoned S-
1 /Residence Estate.
Blackman: Can we hear from the Department?
Keeling: Everything has been met.
Committee? Landscape plan was submitted we have that now.
Blackman: Let's hear from the Public.
Dr. Smith: Wondering what impact this development will have the Brindle Drain? There is a
hold on developing the Ridge at Hayden Run because of the drain. How will your
drainage affect this drain?
Olmstead: This site is divided into parts. The southwesterly part drains into the pond, which
does go to the Brindle Drain. The rest goes east along 136 Street through the
Villages of WestClay. So two thirds of the site will drain this way. By the time the
second section is developed in a year from now those problems will be resolved.
Dr. Smith: Will there be a Commitment to that effect?
Olmstead /Blackman: The County Surveyor's office will not give approval until this is resolved,
which eliminates the need for commitments.
Blackman: Motion?
Dutcher: Motion to approve Docket 04060032PP Lakes at Towne Road.
Ripma: Second.
Motion carried; four (4) in favor zero (0) opposed.
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...END...
Docket No. 04060027 PP Amend Little Farms Addition, replat of lots 31 -33
Filed by Chris Badger of Badger Engineering
REPRESENTING THE PETITIONER:
Chris Badger, BADGER ENGINEERING
Tom Lazzara, CARMEL DEVELOPMENT LLC
David Barker, CARMEL DEVELOPMENT LLC
The applicant seeks to Replat 3 platted residential lots into 9 lots. The site is located northeast of
East 104th Street and Ethel Street. The site is zoned R -3 /Residence. We would like to address
the Issue of the Well on old Lot 33 has been found and will be capped next week. Morris Hensley
with Carmel Utilities found and determined Well and Septic. We will remove the Septic. Tree
Preservation and Landscape Plan is unfinished. We have an existing legal drain, which is the
Home Place Drain 9 158, which runs to the west and is over capacity. We are submitting a
drainage report. In that report you will find a review of a SCS with Hydrographs method and
Rational method. They were both very close and I am comfortable with those numbers. We are
removing the ten —year allowable release rate .86cs£ We met with homeowners to discuss the
drainage. We have made improvements to the pipes; see Drainage Report. We have secondary
detention along the back.
Blackman: Committee?
Ripma: Does the city check the drainage?
Keeling: We will hear it again at Secondary Plat. The TAC Committee has reviewed it and
the Surveyor's Office has looked at this and will give approval accordingly.
Badger: We have the permit forms so you can see all the departments that will be involved.
IDEM Water, IDEM Sanitary, Hamilton County Highway, Clay Regional Waste
and an Outlet Permit for the connection.
Ripma: So the idea is that this water backs up into the 36 -inch pipe and runs back to the
cul -de -sac?
Badger: Yes.
Ripma: Lot prices?
Lazzra: $45,000.00/ 50,000.00 per lot.
Ripma: More expensive than what is there?
Lazzara: Yes.
Blackman: How do you feel about forwarding without landscaping and tree preservation?
What about the Department?
Keeling: Any Landscape Plan needs prior approval by Scott Brewer and Variance approval
from the BZA on setback requirements.
Dutcher: I am okay if prior approval is made by Scott Brewer before the approval at Plan
Commission. Motion to approve subject to Landscape and Tree Preservation
Plan approval by the Urban Forester and receipt of related information.
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Ripma: Second.
Motion carried four (4) in favor, zero (0) opposed.
..END...
Docket Nos. 04070027 OA: Amendment, US 421 /Michigan Rd Ordinance
Filed by the Carmel Department of Community Services.
REPRESENTING THE PETIONER:
Adrienne Keeling
REMOMSTRANCE:
Jamie Browning
Julie Christianson
Steve Pittman
The applicant seeks to amend Chapter 23A of the Carmel/Clay Zoning Ordinance.
Keeling: This is a series of Amendments to the US 421 Overlay Zone, if we can take these
one -by -one.
Green belt: Changing from thirty (30) to forty -five (45) feet. Minimum foundation planting;
changes from five (5) to eight (8) feet. Adjoining a parking area from ten (10) to
fifteen (15). Minimum width of planting area for Canopy Trees; from nine (9) to
ten (10) feet and Ornamental; seven (7) to eight (8) feet. Shrubs; from five (5) to
six (6) feet. Mandatory number of trees in the Green Belt; six (6) Shade trees,
four (4) Ornamentals, and two (2) Shrubs per one hundred linear feet. Increasing
the number in a parking lot from eighteen (18) to twenty -four (24) per acre.
Minimum perimeter planting facing US 421 from six (6) to eight (8) feet. We are
also requiring thirty (30) percent more plantings in this area. By increasing Shade
Trees from two (2) to three (3), Ornamental Trees from three (3) to four (4), and
Shrubs from thirty (30) to forty (40) per one hundred linear feet.
Parking: Increasing the size of a parking space from one hundred eighty (180) square feet to
two hundred (200) and the spaces 10 x 20. Limit parking with front yard setbacks
to one row of parking.
Drive Thru: Proposing a three (3) year moratorium in order to study "Non- attainment Status"
by the EPA.
Frontage Road Requirement: For US 421 access.
Blackman: Public comment?
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My name is Jamie Browning with Browning Investments, 1473 Crestwood Lane, Carmel. I am
requesting to table this item because the US 421 property owners were not notified. I know of
several that were not notified. I am surprised that formal Notice is not part of this process when
you can make me notify all the neighbors in the area. Our project, the Chrysler Dealership alone
went before five (5) Plan Commission meetings before approval was granted. Chrysler was having
difficulty meeting the landscape requirements that are in place currently and modification to the
Ordinance will make it more difficult to meet the standard. It is my belief that everyone here
tonight builds quality projects and we want landscaping in place, but this will make it cost
prohibitive especially when the City provides little relief.
After speaking with Mark Ratterman via telephone, our discussion was mainly about traffic. I
think once you improve US 421 forward of 106 Street that will alleviate the problem. The
problems you have at 96 Street are as a result of several jurisdictions coming together at the 96
Street Intersection. I would offer my help personally from the standpoint I live and own property
there and worry that this will attract only Strip /`B" type shops and that you will not reach the
"A" type of businesses because of this overlay requirement. Our company has managed to address
connectivity, ingress /egress, and frontage roads and the way we have addressed those traffic
issues is by providing alternatives to Michigan Road. This will be the only way to alleviate the
congestion on US 421.
My name is Julie Christianson with REI Investments in Carmel. I would like to ditto Jamie's
comments. We work under the premise that there is a certain value in our properties and believe
that will be realized. We believed we to were providing alternatives to the Michigan Road traffic.
We had hoped that things would be in place for road improvements—we have not seen it. Notice
issue needs revamping—we were not notified. I too would like to see this tabled. Jamie and I have
been in friendly and helpful discussions on ordinances and wonder why there is not more
reciprocation on the part of the City.
Blackman: Any rebuttal from the Department?
Keeling: I understand the Notice concerns—we followed State Statute, a Text Amendment
of the Zoning Ordinance does not require adjacent property owner notification. It
was published in the Newspaper, but Notice to adjoining property owners is not
required. The reason for this proposal is in response to the increased traffic and
density. This is a way to pare down the density. We are certainly open to
discussion.
Blackman: Make sure you have the full copy of the proposal. What I think would be helpful
is if you would make a note of the amendments you find particularly problematic.
The Committee would like to see detail on that to educate us on your concerns.
Christianson: What are these eleven amendments actually addressing —what is the problem that
has brought you to make these amendments?
Molitor: Suggestion to the Committee, when the Committee is ready to make a
recommendation to the Plan Commission on the Notices that maybe a regular
mailing would be in order to the affected property owners.
Blackman: The Department has complied with the legal obligation. We move to table this for
further discussion.
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...END...
Docket Nos. 04070029 OA: Temporary Use Regulations Ordinance
Filed by the Carmel Department of Community Services.
REPRESENTING THE DEPARTMENT:
Adrienne Keeling, DOCS
Matt Griffin, DOCS
Jesse Pohlman, Ordinance Enforcement
REMOMSTRANCE:
Mo Meirhoff
David O'Malia
The applicant seeks to amend Chapters 3, 25, 25.07 and Appendix A of the Carmel/Clay Zoning
Ordinance.
Blackman: Can we hear from the Department?
Keeling: This is the first attempt to get regulations on the books. Currently the Zoning
Ordinance does not address them and therefore struggle with enforcement and
public expectation. The Department seeks to add and amend definitions for
temporary construction facilities, outdoors storage, outdoors display, special
outdoor events, seasonal sales and fireworks.
Blackman: Any members of the public here this evening?
My name is David O'Malia I reside at 3911 Kitty Hawk Court, Carmel. I am Associate Council
with Marsh Supermarkets, Managing Partner with O'Malia Investment Co. and owner of
Brookshire Village Shops, 126 Gray Road. The Ordinance as I have read it poses a lot of
problems for our Spring Flower Sales. This project in the past has generated as much as
$100,000.00 in sales with a $40,000.00 gross profit. The main problem we have with the proposal
is the time limitation of 45 days or three, fifteen -day periods along with the $750.00 fee each time
you apply. Halloween is another practice, which is about 90 days of sales. If this is stopped it will
take away one full-time or 3 part -time jobs.
My name is Mo Merhoff with the Carmel Clay Chamber of Commerce. I can be brief because
David O'Malia has articulated a lot of what some of our other businesses will be concerned with.
We do support their opportunity to increase their sales of legal items outside their store. This can
extend to such things as Service Stations selling dirt, mulch and salt. These types of items do need
a place of their own and not within the store itself. Fireworks are legal in the state so I think it is
okay. Not for -Profit Organizations selling Christmas Trees and seasonal items like pumpkins will
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be affected. I would like to see some work done on what type of seasonal outdoor sales and how
restrictive you want it.
Blackman:
The Department?
Keeling:
Currently some of what goes on is in violation of the Ordinance and this is
an attempt to get a handle on it.
Pohlman:
I do agree with the practicality of Seasonal Sales. The hard part from an
enforcement point is trying NOT to discriminate between what is being
sold and not sold but more of where and when—making it fair across the
board. We want all safety requirements met on the fireworks. We want an
Ordinance that will regulate everyone from fireworks to the Farmer's
Markets.
Westermeier:
What violations have been filed?
Keeling:
Gas station corner sales, back of truck sell-outs, street corner stands.
Pohlman:
Roadside food stands, fruit stands etc we get phone calls on these and if
we follow up with them we need to follow up with the flower sales
etc... something that will be effective across the board.
Westermeier:
Did you compare this in other cities?
Pohlman:
Not really but Noblesville allows it through a BZA Permit.
Dutcher:
I would like to see some flexibility on this item and more discussion.
Blackman:
I would like to see the Department hold separate dialogue on this and get
back to us.
Merhoff:
Sounds like you are trying to legislate taste.
Dutcher:
We need to identify the idea behind the intended uses.
Pohlman:
The right Temporary Uses can add identity and character to a community.
Blackman: We will see you next month after some outside dialogue.
The meeting adjourned at 9:18 PM.
Stephanie Blackman, Chairperson
Pamela A. Babbitt, Subdiv. Secretary
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