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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 10-05-041,1`I y G`'`y of Cq,9y C ity CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE Minutes Tuesday, October 5, 2004 REPRESENTING THE COMMITTEE: Dianna Knoll Rick Ripma Susan Westermeier REPRESENTING THE DEPARTMENT: Michael Hollibaugh Angie Conn Adrienne Keeling Jesse Pohlman OF COUNCIL: John Molitor Docket No. 04070034 Z: Traditions on the Monon PUD Filed by Jim Shinaver of Nelson Frankenberger Representing the Petitioner: Jim Shinaver, NELSON FRANKENBERGER David Leazenby, BUCKINGHAM Chad Karam, MID STATES ENGINEERING Gary Murray, MID STATES ENGINEERING Sean Sullivan, CENTEX The applicant seeks to rezone approximately 11 acres from R -1 /Residence and B -2 /Business Classifications to PUD /Planned Unit Development. The site is located northwest of 136th Street and Range Line Road. Centex is the Builder. This is a Townehome project. You were previously provided some informational brochures for the Plan Commission Hearing, which occurred September 21, 2004. It did not include the Carney Parcel. The aerial on the board shows the current parcel outlined in red, which includes the Carney Parcel. The inclusion of the Carney Parcel has allowed us to change the number of units from 115 units to 125 units. It should be noted that David Leazenby has had various meetings with the Planning Staff, the liaison with CRC, the Mayor's office, and Scott Brewer's office. We are only seeking the Rezone approval tonight. We respectfully believe that the focus tonight may be on the appropriateness of the Rezone to a PUD. As I mentioned at the Plan Commission Meeting and as set forth in the Staff Report, The Comp Plan for this area calls for medium to high intensity commercial uses. Our S:\PlanCommission\SubdivisionCommittee\2004octO5 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 real estate is located north of existing single family residential uses and larger lot residential uses are across the Monon to the west. Commercial uses exist to the north and east of our real estate. That way we believe the PUD provides a reasonable and appropriate transition. Based on the changes to the site plan we have a revised draft of the PUD Ordinance. I refer this as a redline draft. Additions area marked in blue and deletions area marked in red. We have also included a Commitment, that the exteriors will be constructed of brick and /or masonry. Hollibaugh: Looking at the previous site plan changes came as the Mayor's desire to finds ways to incorporate more of an Old Town look and centralized and accessible green areas. Leazenby: The Mayor has expressed his desire to create a more urban experience by linking the site within the Old Town character. With continuing on- street parking, similar signage, building close to the street continuing themes like that to create the Old Town character. We have also added more green space and courtyards. Open space will be the same or more. Density may go up. Westermeier: These are for sale not rent? Leazenby: That is correct. The units range in size from 1,828 to 2,227 square feet. They range in price from $175,00.00 $250,000.00. The parking will change a little; the open space will not change. The buildings are four -sided brick to the top. I met with the Parks Board and the Cool Creek Trail to discuss how to get it to the Monon. Committee: How many parking spaces? Leazenby: 45 with the former plan. Westermeier: We will come back with the ADLS? Leazenby: Yes Knoll: Three- stories? Leazenby: Yes and our demographic is young professionals and older singles small number of children. Hollibaugh: Elevators? Sullivan: Could incorporate it as an extra fee. Shinaver: Based on target marketing no school age children in these type townehomes. Knoll: You will get children school age children. You have accessibility to the Monon, Cool Creek Park and close to the schools. This is ideal for the single parent with children. Can a bus get through there, how will they do that? Ripma: It is not complete I want to see more before I vote for it. We will need to see diameters for the roundabouts and bus accessibility through your community, parking, we will want to see 15' x 18' driveways, commitments on the exteriors. Shinaver: Page 6, of the PUD, Section 7.1 -D included building materials. Conn: What about a commitment for Cool Creek extension? Ripma: Lighting? Shinaver; Exhibit B, Section 5. Knoll/Westermeier: We have road issues with this project being so close to the High School. At night it is dark and being a narrow road anyway at 136 and Gray Road. You are adding more cars to an already congested and dangerous corner. Leazenby: There are plans to expand 136 Street and tentative talk for a roundabout. S:\PlanCommission\SubdivisionCommittee\2004octO5 2 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Knoll: So do you have a comfort level of what we want to see next time? Continued by the Committee to the next meeting November 4, 2004. ...END... Docket Nos. 04070035 Z and 04070036 DP /ADLS: Monon Main PUD Filed by Jim Shinaver of Nelson Frankenberger Representing the Petitioner: Jim Shinaver, NELSON FRANKENBERGER David Leazenby, BUCKINGHAM PROPERTIES Pat Miller, KOSENE KOSENE DEVELOPMENT Chad Karam, MID STATES ENGINEERING Gary Murray, MID STATES ENGINEERING The applicant seeks to rezone approximately 4 acres from B -1/ and B -3 /Business Classifications within the Old Town Character Sub -area to PUD Planned Unit Development and create a live work development. The site is located at 320 West Main. We are seeking ADLS approval. We are looking to foster redevelopment in Old Town constant with the Comp Plan. This PUD rezone request to permit townehomes development that will also include what we believe to be unique live /work units unlike the project we just described to you in addition to the PUD we are requesting DP /ADLS approval. Shinaver: I would like to let D. Leazenby address issues in the Department Report relating to changes in the site plan, the Traffic Circle and discussion, access to the garage units. We would also like to revisit the parking space analysis. Leazenby: Units along main are different from the units in back. Look at Exhibit J, primary area and secondary area. Primary shows live work areas units to conform to the Old Town Arts District. We had a request from the CRC to end cap corner buildings that have street exposure. Secondary units similar to Primary with different facades. Parking analysis 1.18 guest ratio. The buyer is urban minded. The Arts and Design area will be at Main and 4 th Streets and will create a gateway going downtown. We are also adding an additional 15 street parking spots. Shinaver: We changed the alignment of 3r Avenue. Leazenby: Primary area will consist of brick and Hardi -plank Knoll: Will there be coffee shops or outdoor seating? Leazenby: We would not discourage it. Westermeier: Mailbox location with a store front location? Shiner: Gang boxes shown on Exhibit E. Leazenby: Twenty -four boxes we would like it to be a walking route but (interrupted). Ripma: Will the offices be on Main Street only? Leazenby: Yes. Knoll: What is the total number of units? Leazenby: We do have limits under the ordinance. Westermeier: How many units? S:\PlanCommission\SubdivisionCommittee\2004octO5 3 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Leazenby: Seventy -seven with prices at $160,000.00 to $300,000.00. Knoll: I believe 131 st Street is going to be crowded with cars and buses. Ripma: How will 1 st Avenue work? Committee: The Department Report recommends forwarding to full Plan Commission. Concerns with; garage areas, queuing of cars, parking on 3 rd 4th and Main Streets, off street parking and land banks. Knoll: The green space is attractive but there is not enough parking. Westermeier: If you have retail on the corner of 3 rd Avenue then someone can park anywhere? Ripma: In that 1.18 guest parking area. Leazenby: With garages 3.18. Westermeier: What guideline we are using for parking? Ripma: Any commitments for Main Street? Hollibaugh; Yes. Ripma: If you use the 75 spaces across the street that would be okay. Miller: The idea is to keep streets small to slow traffic and with the Monon Trail this would be ideal. Knoll: Can we look at the building? What about the balconies? Leazenby: Six to 18 inches deep for flowers only. The rear units are larger for maybe a chair or grill. Shinaver: We brought samples of materials today and will be painting the brick for lighter colors scheme. Ripma: Can we get a Commitment of color ranges? Miller: Yes. Leazenby: Section three has the color range examples. Knoll: I would like to see the range colors for buildings and doors etc... Miller: The buyer will not have exterior options they will already be set. We would like to wait to place items after we see the scale to mix and match with out a full commitment. Westermeier: Lighting? Leazenby: See Exhibit G -1, 2 3. Westermeier: Like what? Leazenby: We are not sure yet. Miller: It depends on where the lighting is going and if is walkway lighting or street lighting we do not want to speculate at this time. Leazenby: Basically Section 3 lower left image three feet light to illuminate walkway or like what was approved at Carmel's City Center. Knoll: Balcony, is the wrought iron like this in the picture? Leazenby: Yes but it is actually painted Steele. Knoll: Signage? Leazenby: Marketing Signage in Exhibit H -1 and H -2. Commitment no more than 3 locations used at one time. Knoll: What about permanent signage? Leazenby: None. Shinaver: Only the individual live /work unit signage. Knoll: Landscaping? S:\ P1anCommission \SubdivisionCommittee \2004oct05 4 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Leazenby: Exhibit F Ripma: Sizes of trees and shrubs? Leazenby: Twenty -four inches on shrubs and two -inch caliper trees. Knoll: We can get a commitment to that? Leazenby: Yes and no. We would want to customize the area afterwards. Knoll: We will see this again? The biggest concern is parking. Westermeier: Motion to forward to full Plan Commission with Commitments on Landscape Design and Color Palette. Ripma: Second. Motion carried; 3 in favor, 0 opposed. ...END... Docket Nos. 04070027 OA: Amendment, US 421 /Michigan Rd Ordinance Filed by the Carmel Department of Community Services. The applicant seeks to amend Chapter 23A of the Carmel/Clay Zoning Ordinance. TABLED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. ...END... Docket Nos. 04070029 OA: Temporary Use Regulations Ordinance Filed by the Carmel Department of Community Services. PUBLIC AUDIT: Kevin O'Malia, O'MALIA FIREPLACE SHOP Helen O'Malia, O'MALIA FIREPLACE SHOP Paul Reis, DREWRY SIMMONS VORNEHM Mo Merholf, CARMEL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE Barbara Eden, Carson Designs The applicant seeks to amend Chapters 3, 25, 25.07 and Appendix A of the Carmel/Clay Zoning Ordinance Seasonal Sales. Keeling: It is slightly different from your packet. We did receive feedback from David O'Maila. We clarified time limits that they may be carried over in their approved ADLS for Temporary Use. If they wanted to continue year after year in the same name that would be okay. For consecutive 30 -day use with an annual limit of 3 times per property. If originally approved for 60 days then the next year it would be for the same 60 -day period. Westermeier: What if they wanted 90 days? S:\PlanCommission\SubdivisionCommittee\2004octO5 5 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Keeling: Then they would need to refile. Overall the big change separating seasonal outdoor sales from regular outdoor sales. The Committee has expressed more leniency toward seasonal so we separated the definitions and regulations. Knoll: Is patio furniture considered seasonal sales? Jesse: No, the definition of seasonal is agricultural in nature. Knoll: and outdoor sales would be merchandise? Jesse: Correct. Keeling: and business is currently established on the premises where the sale is located. Ripma: If you want a30 -day with an extension is that two with one left for the year? Jesse: Yes but first you need the ADLS approval and they would still be eligible for two more permits. Westermeier: Totaling 90 days? Jesse: Each one up to 30 days unless you have Plan Commission approval for an extension. Ripma: How does that apply to Carmel Welding with their lawn mowers sitting out? Jesse: That would be outdoor storage permitted in Industrial. Reis: This is not storage it is more outdoor display. Jesse: Outdoor storage is anything outside longer than 24 hours is considered outdoor storage. Keeling: Could you read the definition of Outdoor Storage? Jesse: As the keeping of any goods, junk, material, merchandise, or vehicles in the same place in an unroofed and /or unenclosed area for more than 24 hours. Reis: On behalf of O'Malia's Fireplace Shop I have owners Kevin Helen O'Malia here with me. They are going through ADLS Review for an expansion and want to add an area for outdoor storage and display. They would be displaying three things; Grills, Fire -pits and Patio Furniture. Keeling; Not anything to prohibit the Commission to look at the request of ADLS. The Commission would approve it subject to the ADLS requirements. Hollibaugh: Do you have language on this P. Reis? Reis: Not yet. Knoll: This is really about the Temporary Uses of Christmas trees and Fireworks and now went too far. Keeling: We started with Christmas trees and Fireworks and have had a hard time drawing a line to address other Temporary Uses going on in the City. Molitor: I might suggest we get the Ordinance moving along and add the others later. All of these things under the current Ordinance are illegal. Knoll: Can we work through this for the wording? Keeling: I believe it is the outdoor display winkle only. Reis: What about Carmel Welding based on I —1 Zoning are allowed to display. Keeling: Outdoor storage is allowed in the I -1 District. That will not be changing. Looking at Section 25.20: 3, 4, and 5, All Outdoor Storage shall provide a solid, opaque wall or fence of not less than six (6) feet in height measured at the highest finished grade to screen the view from any adjacent residentially zoned property or public right -of -way. A chain link fence or a variation of a chain link fence S:\PlanCommission\SubdivisionCommittee\2004octO5 ro ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 combination shall not constitute an acceptable screening device to satisfy the requirements. Knoll: Is this new? Jesse: Screening is new. Ripma: Are the cars considered storage? Keeling: That is a different definition. Ripma: It is considered storage? Molitor We are getting away from the focus of this Ordinance. Knoll: Would that qualify M. Hollibaugh? Hollibaugh: Maybe we can create a sub category for outdoor display. Knoll: Can we get that done before the next Plan Commission? Hollibaugh: How about for this next Plan Commission? Knoll: Are we okay with that? Hollibaugh: We would like to piggyback an new Amendment. This was prepared at the Council's request that came up during annexation. A new provision called Re- subdivision. Molitor: Instead of reading it let me explain it. If you have an existing Double or two family dwelling the idea is you can split it and sell them separately from the parcel. Ripma: Sure okay, I don't have a problem. Hollibaugh: We will request a Public Hearing at the Full Commission. Westermeier: Motion to move forward Temporary Uses with modifications to Outdoor Storage also with the addition of 5.8 Re- subdivision to the Commission to vote on the Waiver after Public Hearing. Ripma: Second. Motion carried: Three (3) in favor zero (0) opposed. ...END... Docket No. 04080048 Z: Carmel Dr Range Line Rd Overlay: Rezone Filed by the Carmel Department of Community Services. PUBLIC AUDIT: Kevin O'Malia, O'MALIA FIREPLACE SHOP Helen O'Malia, O'MALIA FIREPLACE SHOP Paul Reis, DREWRY SIMMONS VORNEHM Mo Merhoff, CARMEL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE Bill William, CARMEL WELDING Barbara Eden, Carson Designs S:\PlanCommission\SubdivisionCommittee\2004octO5 VA ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 The applicant seeks to rezone multiple parcels to fall under the Carmel Drive -Range Line Rd Overlay District. The parcels are located along Range Line Road and Carmel Drive. Hollibaugh: The Ordinance was forwarded to the Council by the Commission at the last full Commission. At the previous Committee Meeting the affected area was amended out and agreed upon the finalizing of the boundary that would be affected. The black and white map shows what the Department originally proposed. Knoll: Okay, we have an Ordinance that we said at Committee we could not reach an agreement then was forwarded to the Council without recommendation and now we are deadlocked? Hollibaugh: The language of the Ordinance was passed out of Committee with a favorable vote but not out of full Commission. The compromise was we would look at the boundary after the fact. I believe the Committee can do almost what they want but hope with good reason certain areas would be opting out. I believe this makes the most sense given the temporary nature of the Ordinance. Knoll: Two years? Hollibaugh: Yes. Knoll: So if anyone wants to change up to fifty percent (50 of his building within two years they could but at the end (interrupted). Hollibaugh: At the end of two years we will have a plan in place and an Ordinance for a central Business District will encumber part, more or all of this area. Knoll: So then a Business District is what is coming after? Hollibaugh: Having the CRC and the Plan Commission share ideas we are working on a process to help facilitate the discussion, vision, and proposals that the CRC is proposing and is drastically different than the pattern of land use that is out there. This is not a small change or small project. Knoll: When will this take place? Hollibaugh: Not sure. Knoll: I feel like I am out of the loop and is a big jump. Hollibaugh: I would like to get it started as soon as possible. Ripma: I am not convinced the community wants it. Westermeier: Can you M. Hollibaugh elaborate on the necessity to encompass the area to 116 Street? Hollibaugh: Rangline is a primary street in Carmel and we would like to have a constant design treatment on that corridor as well as Carmel Drive. We are trying to apply more of an urban design and details to new projects to create a downtown more like a real city. Comments from the Public: William: I do not see a benefit as a business owner. This is the City's vision not the Community's. Merhoff: The text will go to the Council then to the Land Use /Annexation Committee? Hollibaugh: Yes. Merhoff: What are we trying to preclude? What will this stop us from having? Within your ordinances you have these things called out already why do we need more language? I think that if there is a smaller parcel and the land turns over the S:\PlanCommission\SubdivisionCommittee\2004octO5 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 purchaser knows that what has to be built will be very expensive construction. I believe in the long run it could risk lowering the value and cannot be developed because it is cost prohibitive. Reis: Focusing on the map I represent two diametrically opposed points. I represent people with large shopping centers and O'Malia's on a smaller lot. With the diversity in the area how can you say what applies for O'Malia's is good for what applies to Kosene Kite Center. I do not disagree that there need to be design and we have the ADLS process. There are some uses that perhaps we would not like to see but on the other hand, some of those uses are services people want. If those services cannot be in this corridor they will be illuminated. Where in Carmel can they go? If Kroger wanted to redevelop their store under this new ordinance they may not be able to comply. O'Malia's right now is struggling to comply with the current ordinance much less than complying with the new one. How do we provide for drug stores and grocery stores and small merchants like O'Malia's within this urban design? Hollibaugh: I like the discussion and maybe one size fits all does not apply here. Reis: Under this proposed Ordinance O'Malia's could not rebuild. Hollibaugh: Why? Reis: The amount of landscaping required, the two occupy -able floors, which adds more parking. Hollibaugh: O'Malia's currently has two occupy -able floors? The Ordinance requires fifty percent (50 not one hundred (100). These are distorted and mythological comments that continue to plague us concerning this idea about stopping growth and these fears are unfounded. Knoll: We are deadlocked. Westermeier: I move to forward with a favorable recommendation to the full Plan Commission. Ripma: Second. Motion denied one (1) in favor two (2) opposed. Ripma: Move to send with unfavorable recommendation to Full Commission. Knoll: Second. Motion denied two (2) in favor one (1) opposed. Molitor: The Department is the petitioner and is entitled to a recommendation. Westermeier: I move we forward to the Full Commission with no recommendation. S:\ P1anCommission \SubdivisionCommittee \2004oct05 9 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Ripma: Second. Motion carried three (3) in favor zero (0) opposed. There being no further business to come before the Committee and the meeting was adjourned at 10:11 PM. Stephanie Blackman, Chairperson Pamela Babbitt, Subdivision Secretary S:\PlanCommission\SubdivisionCommittee\2004octO5 10 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417