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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 02-20-07of CA �VNONE y�A C i t y RTOMORROW o /NDIMAN CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE MINUTES TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 2007 LOCATION: CAUCUS ROOMS CARMEL CITY HALL ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, IN 46032 TIME: 5:00 P.M. DOORS OPEN AT 4:30 P.M. Those Present: Representing the Committee: Jay Dorman Brian Mayo Rick Ripma Carol Schlief Sally Shapiro Representing the Department: Angie Conn Christine Barton Holmes Of Counsel: John Molitor Rick Ripma, Acting Committee Chairperson, called the meeting to order at approximately 5:00 P.M. First order of business was to nominate a new Chairperson for the Committee. Jay Dorman nominated Rick Ripma; Carol Schlief seconded the nomination, the Committee voted unanimously to elect Mr. Ripma Chairperson. Mr. Ripma then reviewed Docket Items for the meeting. The Subdivision Committee will meet to consider the following items: 1. Docket No. 06010005 Z: Shelborne Property PUD CONT. TO MARCH 6 The applicant seeks to rezone 20 acres from S1/Residential to PUD/Planned Unit Development for the purpose of developing single- family residences. Page I ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 February 20, 2007 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda The site is located on the west side of Shelborne Road, north of 121S Street. Filed by Charles Frankenberger of Nelson and Frankenberger for Indiana Land Development Co. 2. Docket No. 06050020 PP: Clay Creek CONT. TO MARCH 6 The applicant seeks to plat 30 lots on 29.971 acres. The site is located on Hoover Road north of 116 Street and is zoned S 1. The applicant seeks the following waivers for the proposed plat: 06050022 SW: SCO Chapter 6.05.07 Orientation of Home request to allow dwellings to face internal street 06050023 SW: SCO Chapter 7.05.07 Clearing of greater than 15% of mature woodlands. Filed by Charlie Frankenberger for MHE Development Co. LLC. 3. Docket Nos. 06110012 PUD /06110013 ADLS: Cobblestone Commons The applicant seeks to create 24 detached single family residences on 2.59 acres. The site is located at 740 -760 and 780 1S t Avenue NW, and 121, 131, and 135 8 th Street NW, and is zoned R2 Residential, pending approval to the PUD classification. Filed by Jim Shinaver of Nelson Frankenberger, for Uptown Partners, LLC. Carol Schlief: asked for some direction on petitions that are continued on multiple occasions. What timeline does the Committee have to review projects? John Mollitor stated that there is no rule of thumb, but that these should be completed in a reasonable amount of time. Jim Shinaver began the presentation by identifying himself as an attorney with Nelson and Frankenberger, with offices here in Carmel. Jim introduced Justin Moffitt Moffit one of the partners of Uptown Partners, LLC. Jim explained that Justin Moffitt grew up in the neighborhood where this proposal is situated. Also at the meeting from Uptown Partners, is Justin Moffitt's partner, John Hefton. Tom Troeger is representing Highline Construction. Tom will be the builder for this community. The engineers for the project are Jim Shields and Eric Carter from Weihe Engineering. Jim thanked the Committee for having this special meeting. Jim gave an overview of the plans for Cobblestone. We are here to discuss a rezone request and an ADLS DP request for a residential community to be known as Cobblestone Commons. This community will contain 24 detached, single family, semi- custom homes. Our demographic is primarily young professionals without children and empty nesters. Although Justin Moffitt was encouraged to develop a town home community when he acquired the property, after thought and reflection, and, the fact that he had a good understanding of what the neighbors wanted, Justin Moffitt decided to proceed forward with this particular project which again is single family homes. The anticipated price range for these homes is anticipated to be $325,000 to $380,000. We sent the original plans to the Plan Commission for the 12/19/06 meeting. We then submitted supplemental brochures. Jim asked that Committee members take a moment to review tab 5 6 or the supplemental brochures. Tabs 5 and 6 contain photographs and product types that are very Page 2 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 February 20, 2007 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda similar to what is envisioned for the Cobblestone Commons community. Some of these pictures are located out at the Village of West Clay. Jim indicated that these pictures show a better vision of how they envision the project. Jim Shinaver explained that what they have done in the planning of this development is make it compatible and consistent not only with the overlay standards for Old Town, but also with the homes which already exist in this area. By working with staff and architects they feel they have met this objective. Jim Shinaver then indicated he would review the staff reports. The report lists 8 particular items that were discussed in that report. Department Comments: Angie Conn read the Departments' outstanding concerns. #1 Provide details on the patios. Are they enclosed? How do they coordinate with the neighboring dwelling? Justin Moffitt responds: Please refer to Section 3 of the primary brochure. Each patio is 8' x 12' and are not enclosed, the neighborhood covenants would not allow them to be enclosed. The patios are simply a place for the grill and patio furniture. Since we are marketing towards a town home type buyer who is looking for some more amenities, not just a town home deck, this may be a better set up. This patio would be approximately 2ft from the home adjacent to it. #2 Provide details on emergency access to Smokey Row Road, (136 St.) construction materials, etc. It is recommended to provide a break away gate/bollard at this area to prevent non emergency use. Jim Shinaver indicated on a visual the area he was speaking of Jim Shinaver has spoken with Gary Hoyt of the Fire Department. After a recent TAC meeting he had a private meeting with Gary Hoyt of the Fire Department to talk about how the site would work for his needs. One issue discussed was to incorporate grass pavers in this particular area. We are also going to incorporate some break away bollards, that would allow emergency vehicles to access the site or exit the site if need be this will be located up in the north west corner. A similar access has not been provided in other areas in the east. Gary Hoyt did not believe it would be needed. Residents of the area would access the community via First Ave. They would not able to use the emergency access. 43 #5 The buffer -yard along the Monon (on your property) should include large tree plantings. Revise the landscape plan to show only your site's plantings. Plantings that exist within the Monon right of way cannot be considered as part of your proposal Through the TAC review, we received input from Scott Brewer, Urban Forester. Our landscape architect outside the TAC meetings had additional conversations and meetings with Scott and Page 3 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 February 20, 2007 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda Justin Moffitt met with Scott out on sight and walked the site. Our understanding is we have addressed all concerns regarding landscaping, etc. This would address items 3 and 5 Updated plans with additional plantings were presented to Scott Brewer. Scott Brewer has signed off on this plan. #4 Explore the option of using pervious pavers at the "cobblestone" and the internal guest parking. Using such will decrease storm water runoff, and improve water runoff water quality. We will continue to review this possibility as we take this project through the review process. Typically we make decisions like this at the secondary plat, when you get down to construction details and drawings. We will continue to determine the viability of that request as we go through. #5 Discussed with item number 3 #6 The small plaza area connecting to the Monon should function as a staging area —with benches, a bike rack, etc. Jim Shivaner described the planned staging area with a visual. An access point has been provided, and will include benches and access to the Monon. This works in conjunction with the 7 th item #7 The petitioner must coordinate with Parks Department to receive their approval and support for the Monon connection. Uptown Partners is aware that this is required and will continue to work with the Parks Department as we continue through the process. #8 Provide update on the Landscape Plan and Engineering reviews and approvals. In regard to the Engineering review, we received comments and suggestions from Engineering and, have had some separate meetings with Engineering to address issues that we are required to work through the process. Some members of the Commission may not have received the most recent email. Gary Duncan did send an email to Matt Griffin, which I believe was copied to the other plan commission members regarding where we are at in his review process. Summarized: we have addressed all the issues and concerns that Gary would have at this particular stage and my understanding is that some of the additional questions and concerns that he may have are things that we would continue to deal with as we take this through this process and as we go through secondary platting. The general understanding is that we have addressed all major concerns and smaller issues that are left, will be continued to be worked on. Jim Shivaner stressed again the support that this proposal has received from the neighborhood and the surrounding areas. Justin Moffitt has spent a great deal of time meeting with individuals and groups to discuss proposal and get their input and hear their questions. We have received Page 4 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 February 20, 2007 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda almost 50 letters of support and believe 9 or 10 individuals spoke in support at the first Plan Commission meeting. Some neighbors are here tonight to speak in support if there is time. Rick Ripma asked members for comments: Angie Conn: Due to the long list of items the Department has, it is recommended that it be discussed tonight and again at the March 6 th meeting. Angie requested clarification on the amount of open space. Justin Moffitt; this is not a typical suburban neighborhood and the open space requirements are little bit different, because most people are going to treat this as a town home community, and use Old Town and the Monon as their amenities. Hard numbers are 1 /4 acre or 10.6% of the site that is common space that is not part of platted lot or right of ways and if we want to get down to green space there is about 41,000 sq. ft or 36% of the site, nearly an acre, which that is within our 2.6 acres that is covered in yard landscape and public use sidewalks. Rick Ripma: The project attorney has gone through the eight recommendations that staff had made, and are there any others? Angie Conn: Not that the Department is aware of There are some outstanding issues, i.e., garages, parking spaces, 90 degree turns Rick Ripma: is the petitioner still moving forward with plans as is? Will there be any decrease in density. Jim Shivaner plans are ongoing as is. Carol Schlief my biggest is concern is that Old Town is a unique space and not like any other development around. A lot of that has to do with lot width and spacing of the houses. This project appears to be going towards the town home projects and if that happens we will lose Old Town as it is now. Maintaining the street front on 1S street and the three houses that are there. The Historical Society also has concerns about this development. 24 units on 8 lots, this seems excessive. Carol Schlief indicated that she appreciates the fact that Uptown Partners is not doing town homes, but she does not think that is what this site needs —She feels that 9 -10 units would be more appropriate. Justin Moffitt: if you look in Supplemental Brochure, Section 3 it has some pictures of the surrounding homes and I fully understand and respect the intent of the character sub area. However, we are dealing with homes, which in the opinion of Uptown Partners are not salvageable. We have had architects come and review the houses and have said that there is no way it makes sense to salvage the homes. Coupled with the cost of the land, it just doesn't work. Uptown Partners is really dealing with a disadvantaged site. When first purchased it was thought to construct only 10 -12 homes, but Gary Duncan has certain challenges, and has certain requirements for us to put infrastructure on that site and the cost are really staggering, Uptown Partners feels that they are at their base density because of the cost and if you would look Page 5 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 February 20, 2007 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda at our costs, the individual lot costs are very high and if we were to reduce that number by half, there is no way it would stay at rental. Carol Schlief looking at those homes along 1S Street, NW —they need some work, the basic structure is there. These and the cracker box homes across the street are what is keeping Old Town together. Carol Schlief has been talking with people on the Council and the Redevelopment Committee and the Historical Society and the Mayor and so forth, to try and see what we can do about these little homes that Carol Schlief stressed that 24 homes in that location would be bad for the whole area. She is aware that people who do not live right next to the development have signed petitions and a lot of them qualify what they are saying with "these are instead of town homes." That is not the question the question is what should go there. Justin Moffitt: intent was to give residents a comprehensive understanding of the whole project. That is why we met with them one on one, sometimes for hours. They really do care. Please look at Section 2 of the Supplemental Brochure, it has a map of where the supporters live. There are 13 supporters that live adjacent to and around the surrounding area of the site. Carol Schlie£ my issues are what Old Town is and what it could be. I see terrific potential in all of Old Town and as soon as we are finished with guidelines it is my intention to see how we can help people do something to help Old Town. Jim Shinaver: Justin Moffitt and John spent time reviewing the overlay standards and what we have done with the PUD is incorporate as many of those overlay standards of the Old Town area as we could. We took these guidelines as the guiding force as to how this project would look. Uptown Partners understands the special nature of this particular segment of the Old Town area. The reason we go back to the letters of support is because I believe members of this particular segment of this area, are aware of the Old Town Standards, they are aware of what went through the zoning process and they want to make sure that the standards that were in place are adhered to so that development that occurred would fit that vision. We stress these letters to show that we have gone out to the community members, some which are here tonight to make sure that they felt that they were comfortable with it. Jim Shinaver: if the project was not in compliance we would have met remonstranance at our first meeting and most likely in a setting like this. I am not sure if anyone here is here to speak against this proposal, but to this point we have not had any complaints. Uptown Partners feels they have worked hard to see what the neighbors want to see. Jim Shinaver: One other issue I would like to address is density and is this too much density for this particular site and I make these observations. When I looked at other projects and their density. If you look at town home development 11.1 units per acre at Traditions on the Monon. Village Green 5.3 unit /acre; Arden 7.1 units per acre; Monon and Main 21.5 units per acre. These 4 projects average density 10.7 units per acre. Cobblestone is at 9.2 units per acre. Jim Shinaver addressed further that Uptown Partners expects these units to be purchased by Page 6 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 February 20, 2007 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda young professionals and empty nesters Jay Dorman— reviewed the space allotted between homes 2 ft. between patios. What is distance used front unit l Oft side yards grass space for drainage is 10 ft. if 3 car garage unit, it becomes 6 ft. how about. He also discussed the grass space for drainage. There will be 10 ft. if there is a 2 car garage, but only 6 ft. if a 3 car garage how will the drainage be completed? Carol Schlief: how are you going to get drainage between those 6 foot building when someone plants a lilac right in the middle Jim Shinaver: What is in envisioned is main drainage along the alley ways, roof drains and perimeter drains. there will have to be a sub surface drain between the lots especially in the common areas. Demonstrated on visual. Uptown Partners has designed Cobblestone Commons with slabs, no basements will added. Carol Schlief questioned further regarding the drainage issue. How is drainage going to be accomplished if there are no French drains between the homes to capture the water and take it out, or are you just going to rely on the swale Jim Shinaver indicated it would be mostly on the swale, but also capturing roof water. However, these are items that will be addressed in the secondary plat Carol Schlief would you use a French drain or something along that line. What will b done when they clog up Justin Moffitt we will be using an 8 inch pipe instead of 6 inch. Carol Schlief they have had drainage problems down town people can't afford to redo, temp fix with We are using pea fill between the buildings Carol Schlief discussed another concern She presented a picture of some West Clay homes due to their close density some units will have no sunlight in their homes this is public health issue. She outlined some potential problems with lack of sunlight, medical problems, moss, lack of air flow Conversation 8 inch should take care of it. 10 feet is absolutely the minim Carol Schlief indicated she could give our or five good reasons that you should not have homes 10 feet apart. Justin Moffitt gave overview of lot overlay. There was discussion to possibly eliminate the third car option. Justin indicated that the 3r stall could be used for storage. Justin Moffitt displayed a visual of the proposed homes 4 of the home designed with Page 7 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 February 20, 2007 Carmel Plan Commission Subdivision Committee Agenda ADLS /DP requirements required to have finished architecture. These are specific models with alternate elevations for each floor plan. What you see is what you get. Other than color variation units that face Smoky Row discussed the elevations and how they will be viewed from 1S Ave and Smoky Row road. Van Houtons can only go on Smoky Row. All others can go on any lot. There will be a monotony code in the covenants. Product type and colors will be not together. Rick Ripma what about parking. That is a big concern what kind of spaces do you have. Justin Moffitt right now it is designed with 4 interior on 19 on Smokey Row Uptown Partners will widen the road per Gary Duncan of Engineering— Showed visual of parking Justin Moffitt did some surveillance on parking and showed pictures of cars parked during the Super Bowl. Carol Schlief addressed the assumption that these units will be used by empty nesters and young professionals with no children. If all units have 3 bedrooms, it is highly likely that there will be children. What amenities are there for children? Jim Shinaver The Monon is their amenities takes you anywhere you want to go in Carmel Old Town, Central Park, not far from high school. The Uptown Partners buyer understands what they are getting. The most likely scenario is these units will be purchased and probably resold in 2 -3 years. Motion made to continue this item to the March 6 Committee meeting. Due to the fact that a Plan Commission meeting is also scheduled for tonight, a motion was made by Jay Dorman to adjourn and seconded by Carol Schlief motion was passed Meeting adjourned at 6:05 p.m. Rick Ripma, Chairperson Lisa Stewart, Secretary Page 8 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417