HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Sub 05-03-051,1`I y G`'`y of Cq,9y C o
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
SUBDIVISION COMMITTEE
MAY 3 2005
Minutes
Representing the Committee:
Rick Ripma
Susan Westermeier
Dan Dutcher
Jerry Heniser
Representing the Department:
Angie Conn
Jon Dobosiewicz
Of Counsel:
John Molitor
Docket No. 05020034 DP /ADLS: Carmel Townhomes
Docket No. 05020035 SW: 20G 5.1 (17)(4) Building Width
Filed by Kenny Windler of Ryland Homes
Representing the Petitioner:
Gary Murray, SCHNEIDER ENGINEERING
Bob Doster, SCHNEIDER CORPORATION
Kenny Windler, RYLAND HOMES
Corby Thompson, BOOMERANG
The Applicant seeks to create 56 single- family attached units on 4.4 acres and a Subdivision Waiver to
reduce the required unit width from twenty -two feet (22') to twenty feet (20'). The site is located at 1335
West Main Street and is zoned OM.
Thompson: Ryland has experience with Townhomes in Carmel with projects like City Center, Lakes at
Hazel Dell, and Stanford Park. We aligned the east west road through the project to match
with Alexandria. The units will be built with all brick fronts. We have met all the Staff
requests for brick. Parking within the project we show per unit two (2) interior garage
spaces and two (2) exterior spaces as well as widen streets for on -street parking. We
requested a Variance to allow interior unit space of twenty feet (20') wide instead of
twenty -two feet (22') wide units.
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Department:
A request was made to see an overall exhibit of the area to see how this site fit into
the overall Old Meridian Plan. The Department recommends forwarding back to
the full Plan Commission after all issues are addressed.
Westermeier:
I have concerns about drainage.
Thompson:
No Storm Sewers now. We will be using a dry detention to the southeast outlet
through Storm Sewers at Old Meridian.
Westermeier:
What about surface drainage?
Thompson:
No, we will pull water into our Storm Sewer Pipe.
Ripma:
The City is okay with this?
Conn:
Yes.
Heniser: I reside at Townhomes at City Center. I am a proponent of increasing density but
even though there is ample parking within each unit for four (4) vehicles there are
instances for the need for overflow occasionally people block access points. I
would like to see something that clarifies parking. I see possible parking problems
at Buildings 5 and 6.
Murry: Do you have rolled or chair -back curbing?
Heniser: Both.
Ripma: Can you add banked parking?
Thompson: We could along Meridian Terrace.
(continued discussion on parking...)
Ripma: It would appear there is not enough parking.
Murry: Is it not enough or not close enough to the units.
Ripma: I would say both.
Westermeier: Does Providence connect with Alexandria?
Murray: Yes, and they could park there as well as Grand Boulevard especially with
completion of the other side of the boulevard.
Dutcher: I believe the residents will have to manage those times during extra visitors. I
would rather not compromise the look verses parking.
Heniser: Maybe through Covenants to enforce parking to give residents some authority.
Murray: Referring to the OM -S 1 Parking Ordinance we are well above that requirement.
Ripma: I suggest you come prepared to be asked these same questions before the Plan
Commission. Does Grand Boulevard curve and go south?
Murray: It will be extended in the future.
Westermeier: Move to forward Docket No. 05020034 DP /ADLS: Carmel Townhomes and
Docket No. 05020035 SW: 20G 5.1 (F)(4) Building Width, to the full Plan
Commission.
Dutcher: Second.
Motion carried, Four (4) in favor, zero (0) opposed.
Docket No. 05020019 PP: Murphy Hall
Docket No. 05020022 SW: SCO 6.03.19(4) Access to Arterials
Filed by Jim Shinaver for Estridge Development Company
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Representing the Petitioner:
Jim Shinaver, NELSON FRANKENBERGER
Court Crosby, SCHNEIDER ENGINEERING
Ron Bankert, ESTRIDGE COMPANIES
Craig Kunkle, ETRIDGE COMPANIES
Lori North, ESTRIDGE COMPANIES
The Applicant seeks to plat 82 lots on 55.327 acres and a Subdivision Waiver to reduce the 200 feet buffer
area to forty feet (40'). The site is located at the NW corner of West 141S Street and Towne Road. The
site is zoned S 1 Residential Very Low intensity.
Shinaver: We came before the Plan Commission April 19, 2005 for Primary Plat and Subdivision
Waiver approvals. ESTRIDGE COMPANIES anticipates the approximate price of home
in MURPHY HALL will be $375, 450,000. Ingress /egress at 141S Street not on Towne
Road. City's Residential Open Space Ordinance "ROSO" Standards require fifteen
percent (15 open space this site contains 24.65 percent open space. Landscape Plan
revision Common Area "E" lake -one is reduced. Brick entryway leading to an amenities
area includes Pool, Pool house, Playground Equipment, and Basketball Court. Significant
landscape plantings along Towne Road, the internal roadways, and around the lake areas.
We have also included per the Ordinance the ten feet (10') asphalt path along 141S and
again along Town Road. Architectural commitments first floor brick wrap. Decorative
brick wall along 141S Street and along Towne Road made of red brick rising to a height of
five feet, six inches intermixed with landscape buffering.
Department: I did not hear comments on the issues of commitments with regard to ordinance required
road improvement including an engineer's estimate and request to see the useable open
space identified.
Shinaver We e- mailed a draft of commitments, which included estimates that relate to that portion of
the project. Usable open space includes Amenity Area "D" and Lakes "A and E" with trail
connections.
Conn: The Department recommends forwarding to the full Plan Commission.
Dutcher: The Towne Road lots additional commitment for one tree per lot with shrubs.
I think one tree in the backyard will get lost in all that space.
Dobosiewicz: We could add an additional shade tree.
Shinaver: Would you allow us to eliminate six shrubs and add a shade tree for perimeter lots?
Dutcher /Dobosiewicz: That would be acceptable.
Dobosiewicz: Lots 76 -82 will receive two trees call it that. We are satisfied with the form of the
commitment sent this morning record it and provide us the recorded copy. On the
perimeter lots the brick chases on the chimneys not in the commitment can we get
an expectation on those? Intent of the 200 feet setback was to enhance the look
and provide another option for design?
Dutcher: I like the idea behind the Waiver.
Ripma: We want to avoid looking into the backs of homes.
Dutcher: What is the height of the wall?
Dobosiewicz: No higher than six feet (6').
Westermeier: Will road improvements be spelled out before this is built?
Dobosiewicz: They are already making improvements with a fifteen feet (15') pavement section and
three feet (3) shoulder. We want them to build this portion today and commit funds for
the future improvements. The Council is looking to adopt an Ordinance within the next 30
days to set up a special fund for improvements.
Dutcher: Move Docket No. 05020019 PP: Murphy Hall and Docket No. 05020022 SW: SCO
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6.03.19(4) Access to Arterials with commitments to brick exterior chimney chases and
add one (1) ornamental and one (1) shade tree forgoing the six (6) shrubs for the
perimeter lots.
Westermeier: Second.
Motion carried, Four (4) in favor; zero (0) opposed.
Docket No. 05020028 PP: Runyon Hall
Docket No. 05020029 SW: 06.03.19 (4) Access to Arterials
Filed by Jim Shinaver for Estridge Development Company
Representing the Petitioner:
Jim Shinaver, NELSON FRANKENBERGER
Lori North, ESTRIDGE COMPANIES
Court Crosby, SCHNEIDER ENGINEERING
Ron Bankert, ESTRIDGE COMPANIES
Craig Kunkle, ETRIDGE COMPANIES
Public audit:
Joe Griffiths
Remonstrators:
Dennis Ault, Ashton Zone Committee Chair
Mark Grossman, Ashton Resident
Troy Lisa Hannah, Ashton Resident
John Dawson, Woodfield Resident
Denise Kaflik, Woodfield Resident
Mark Jennifer Konesco Woodfield HOA
Melinda Meregeglia, Woodfield Resident
Caesar Turrin, Woodfield HOA
The Applicant seeks to plat 58 lots on 39.08 acres and a Subdivision Waiver to reduce the 200 feet buffer
area adjacent to 146"' Street to thirty-five feet (35'). The site is located at 5333 East 146th Street and is
zoned S -1 Residential.
Shinaver: We came before the Plan Commission April 19, 2005 for Primary Plat and Subdivision
Waiver approvals. Since that meeting we have eliminated four (4) lots to increase open
space. ESTRIDGE COMPANIES anticipates the approximate price of home in
RUNYON HALL to be $450 550.000.00. Ingress /egress to the site is on 146"' Street.
This curb cut aligns with Kingsley Subdivision. This site exceeds the ROSO standards.
Lot width and depth is larger. Common Area "E" in the center of the subdivision was
added per the request of the Plan Commission.
Brick entry and wall with wrought iron sections along 146"' Street spans the length of the
subdivision. Waiver relates to Lots 5, 6, 12, 19, and 20 the proposed buffer was thirty-five
feet (35') increasing to forty feet (40'). We have added a commitment that relate to first
floor brick wrap for perimeter lots. Southern portion of the site pond path originally
around the pond was moved to wrap around Lots 26 -30. Changed drainage on the site
designs to an underground pipe flowing to an existing drainage easement and then to an
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exposed drainage pipe located in Mr. Hannah's backyard. We are in contact with the
homeowners to provide proposed drainage designs.
Bankert: We were required by the County Highway to align our curb cut with Kingsley. We asked
our consultant to help us calm traffic coming into the neighborhood. Their suggestion was
to widen this parkway with the actual entry experience opening onto a common mall.
Ripma: Public Comments were invited at this time
Turrin: Mr. Shinaver and ESTRIDGE have tried to resolve issues. They owe me some
documentation of what we have discussed and final plans as well as an onsite meeting
relative to drainage. Good progress so far still work to be done.
Hannah: ESTRIDGE has been working hard to resolve the drainage issues with us.
Ripma: Organized Remonstrance, unfavorable...
Dawson: ESTRIDGE has been responsive to our needs at WOODFIELD to date. They partially
addressed one issue with the brick wrap but they overlooked homes that we will be looking
into and would respectfully request they add Lots 29 -32 as Perimeter Lot Designation.
Committee Members please keep in mind our drainage issues. We have had water in our
basement many times and would like it remedied.
Kenesco: My concern is the amount of traffic coming into WOODFIELD and safety regarding
children.
Shinaver: We area stubbing into WOODFIELD per the Code Requirements.
Mereggolia: It is dangerous to enter onto 146 Street. There are no decel lanes and therefore I use
Hazel Dell Parkway through Ashton. If you add an additional fifty -six (56) homes expect
to see an increase of 150 cars a day using the stub street.
Dobosiewicz: When you bought your home what was your expectations for that stub someday? Our
desire is to provide connectivity between the neighborhoods. With regard to speeding we
have options that can eliminate that element.
Ault: We were impressed with the project and we are in favor of the 200 feet buffer. We have
serious concerns with the drainage to the southeast. Mr. Hannah is the first to get flooded.
We get runoff from the natural land and we will have additional runoff. We have labored
to stock the pond for our enjoyment and worry about what will happen to our investments.
Ripma: Rebuttal?
Bankert: We would be agreeable to add Lots 29, 31, 32 to the list of perimeter lots. We believe Lot
31 shields Lot 30. Our opposition to brick wrap is these homes meet the design standards
and placing a brick requirement takes architectural flexibility away.
Department: Tab 8 of the booklet provides examples of other neighborhoods where homes back up to
perimeter streets. It is important to note that in these examples many homes run parallel to
the street (not at an angle as the proposed). Last meeting concerns came from the Plan
Commission about traffic from Grace Community. The Plan Commission came up with a
plan to do away with this part of the entryway and connecting with the cul -de -sac to get rid
of the backs of homes. When concerns are met the Department recommends forwarding to
the full Plan Commission.
Dobosiewicz: Consider making the wrought iron perimeter wall segments a solid screen using boards. C.
Crosby can you send us more information on the drainage issue? Give us some details
about the requirements of the Surveyor's Office for increasing the lake size ten feet (10)
to the north and ten feet (10') to the south. Could that enhance the drainage?
Crosby: Yes, eighty -five percent (85 of drainage already flows toward Ashton's pond and into
Mr. Hannah's backyard. If made bigger to accommodate the drainage one -fourth (1 /4 th) of
allowable release rate we are exceeding the release rate at four percent (4 and increasing
the pond will make that percentage more.
Dobosiewicz: There has been public opposition to the trail being introduced into a space of somewhat
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private area. We would forego the walking trail behind the lots to do additional work to
improve drainage.
Crosby: We can do more with the pond. This will also help water quality.
Dobosiewicz: The Department will forego the path for the larger pond.
Ripma: I like that the community facing west and not the street as usually submitted.
(Discussion of visibility of backs and sides of homes...)
Dobosiewicz: Addressing Lots 1 -4 that are part of this perimeter system, I agree that first floor all -brick
is not the answer. Speaking of the price points I am comfortable that it will be an
esthetically pleasing house. I agree the design standard needs variations.
Bankert: We can accommodate the all -brick first floor wrap on the perimeter lots.
Turrin: We would like some compatibility with our neighborhood.
Bankert: The concern that you will not be looking at architecture we eliminated four (4) homes in
lieu of more usable open space.
Dobosiewicz: How large?
Crosby: Two (2) plus acres.
Heniser: What about a path will that help for usable common space?
Dutcher: The original intent was to avoid a long extended drive exposing backs of homes.
Westermeier: I think it makes it more private possibly reducing traffic.
Ripma: It could help if landscaping was added along that entry.
Shinaver: Was the spirit of the Ordinance to buffer internal roadways or public roadways?
Dobosiewicz: The Ordinance reads collectors, arterials, and roadways. Since you are over the open space
requirement you could add three (3) additional homes in this entry or add additional
landscaping to buffer the backs and sides.
Bankert: We would rather add more plantings within the entryway than clump landscaping.
Dobosiewicz: What about a boulevard and extending the splinter island?
Bankert: We intentionally went this way to create an entryway opening onto the amenity area
therefore we would rather landscape.
Heniser: I like the idea of the entry experience but enhance Common Area `B "and add Lots 51 and
56 landscaping to cover sides.
Ripma: ...and you do not have trees along the cul -de -sacs.
Bankert: We will be adding them.
Dobosiewicz: Please send us a black and white revised drawing with the trees added to the cul -de -sac.
Westermeier: and the added shade trees?
Dutcher: with the drainage issues are we able to move forward?
Dobosiewicz: What can the Department supply you to make an informative decision?
Dutcher: We want to fmished discussions between the City and neighbors until we have addressed
all concerns before forwarding
Dobosiewicz: We are not making a new standard.
Dutcher: They meet the requirements of the City but still have unpleasing issues to the
neighborhoods do we turn a deaf ear?
Westermeier: I agree.
Dobosiewicz: What can we deliver you that will cause you to render a decision?
Dutcher: What additional steps are you willing to take to address the drainage?
Shinaver: We are holding back the release rate %4?
Crosby: The Surveyor's Office and City Engineer have our drainage submittals. They will not
permit us to move forward without their approvals.
Molitor: The neighbors just want to be informed. The Developer has a responsibility to meet the
requirements of the ordinance.
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Dobosiewicz: You could offer conditions of the approval as an option.
Turrin: We would like that.
Bankert: We are agreeable.
Dobosiewicz: You want to remain informed?
Ripma: Are we comfortable that he City will meet the drainage requirements?
Dobosiewicz: I believe in the next few weeks we will meet those requirements. If they continue
dialogue with City and Surveyor's Office but I do not want to stall the process.
Grossman: I would like to echo the comments we are pleased with the contacts. I am concerned about
flooding, runoff and drainage especially, after the rains we had this past year. If we are
doubling the runoff it will be a big concern.
Ripma: Any other comments favorable /unfavorable?
(Public Hearing is formally closed)
Westermeier: Move to forward Docket No. 05020028 PP: Runyon Hall and Docket No. 05020029 SW:
06.03.19 (4) Access to Arterials to the full Plan Commission with the following
commitments; all perimeter lots have two (2) large trees, elimination of the path around the
pond to expand the pond, and enhanced landscaping to Common Area `B
Heniser: Second.
Motion carried, Four (4) in favor, zero (0) opposed.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:26 PM.
Pamela Babbitt, Subdivision Secretary, pro tem
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Rick Ripma, Chairperson
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