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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes SpecStdy 01-08-08of CA �VNONE y�A C i t y RTOMORROW o /NDIMAN CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE TUESDAY, JANUARY 8, 2008 Minutes Members present: Kevin Heber, Steve Stromquist, Susan Westermeier, thereby establishing a quorum. DOCS Staff present: Michael Hollibaugh, Director, Christine Barton Holmes. John Molitor, Legal Counsel was also present. The Special Studies Committee considered the following items: 1. Docket No. 07030035 DP: Pro -Med Lane Holiday Inn The applicant seeks site plan approval for a proposed full- service hotel. ADLS is under another docket no. below. The site is located at 136th Street and Pro -Med Lane, and is zoned B- 6/Business within the US 31/Meridian Street Overlay. Filed by Stacey of DeBoy Land Development Services, Inc. TABLED TO FEBRUARY 05, 2008 2. Docket No. 07070009 ADLS: Holiday Inn at Pro Med Ln The applicant seeks architecture /design approval for a proposed full- service hotel. The site is located at 136"' Street and Pro Med Lane, and is zoned B6, within the US 31/Meridian Street Overlay. Filed by Dave Coots of Coots, Henke Wheeler for Midwest Hospitality Group, Inc. TABLED TO FEBRUARY 05, 2008 3. Docket No. 07070003 Z: 146th Gray Rezone (146th St Office Complex) The applicant seeks approval to rezone 11.6 acres from S -1 /Residence to B- I/Business for an office /retail development. The site is located at the southeast corner of 146"' St. and Gray Rd. Filed by Kelli Lawrence of Hearthview Residential, LLC. 4. Docket No. 07070004 PP: 146th St Office Complex The applicant seeks primary plat approval for 5 lots on 11.6 acres. The site is located at the southeast corner of 146"' St. and Gray Rd. and is zoned S -1 /Residence, pending a B -1/ Business rezone. Filed by Kelli Lawrence of Hearthview Residential, LLC. Note: Items 3 and 4 were heard together. Kelli Lawrence and Jim Thomas, Hearthview Residential, 805 City Center Drive, Carmel appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also in attendance: Joe Scimia, attorney, Baker Daniels. S :/P1anCommission/Minutes /Committees /SpecStudies /2008j an08 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 The petitioner has made changes in the site plan and the commitments. Up -dated renderings were submitted. The changes involve shifting the bank building 90 degrees so that the drive aisle is not along Gray Road or 146"' Street—it is at the rear of the site and is situated somewhat similar to the bank located at Hazel Dell and 146"' Street and not a prominent feature along the 146"' Street right -of -way. The entrance drive was moved farther to the east and additional trees /evergreens have been added as a buffer in order to provide privacy for the adjacent property owners. Changes in the commitment have been made to provide more clarification as to general retail and service uses and permitted uses in the category listed in Section 6A in the commitments. The petitioner has also limited the hours of operation of businesses in order to minimize the impact of the uses. Since the prior meeting, Hearthview has had communication with Scott Brewer, Urban Forester and has addressed his concerns. Hearthview has also responded to the concerns from City Engineering. In addition, Hearthview has agreed, as part of the stormwater management, to incorporate principles of LEED development such as harvesting the rainwater and utilizing as part of the irrigation system and also filter the parking islands. Department Report, Christine Barton Holmes. Scott Brewer, Urban Forester said he is continuing to work with the Petitioner. There are still outstanding issues regarding the County Highway —the County has ultimate jurisdiction on 146"' Street; Christine confirmed that the curb cut had been moved. The Department is still awaiting traffic study results. Additionally, there is a fair amount of retail going in to the north of this site and the Department would like to make sure that whatever ends up at this site is complementary to the area to the north. The commitments have been narrowed down. The Department asks for clarification on repair services and music /dance academy to ensure that there are no large crowds that will affect noise and the neighbors. The elevations look as if they comply, but if EFIS is used, it should be limited to trim only. At this time, the Department is requesting that this item be continued to the February 05 Committee meeting to work out the outstanding issues. Members of the Pubic in attendance: Jim Kraft, 5187 Sue Drive, Carmel, (Woodfield) asked that the Committee consider if Carmel is willing to let what is happening on the north side of 146 street happen on the south side. Big point to consider: There is plenty of retail going in on the north side of 146"' Street, but the shops are not filling up —they are not occupied. Mr. Kraft did not see a need to put in a similar development on the south side of 146"' Street with services that Carmel already has. Steve Dauby, 5151 Sue Drive, has 3 things for clarification. There was a large number of people -252 persons —who signed a petition in opposition to this development. Several people spoke at the public hearing —the first meeting. This item drags on and people are no longer in attendance— people lose track but that does not mean they are not concerned. The retention pond is a significant issue for the Daubys and it is a personal issue. Please check the notes from the first meeting and see that those points are addressed. The area surrounding the property does not contain just a few small houses, there are at least 7 homes and those homeowners are trying to protect their property values —there are significant dollars at play for Mr. Dauby as well as the surrounding neighborhood. S:/P1anCommission/Minutes /Committees /SpecStudies /2008jan08 2 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Ann Vandeveire, Vandeveire /Randall Family on the north side of 146"' Street. Ann agrees with previous speakers and is concerned with rainwater irrigation, hours of operation, and stated the family does not want or need the proposed businesses and services that are already in existence or being built on the north side of 146' Street (Noblesville/Westfield.) The proposed development is too close to residential. Cesar Turin, president Woodfield HOA, has not had an opportunity to review the proposed revisions; would also like an opportunity to meet with the developer and discuss. Committee Members' Comments: Kevin Heber —The zoning should be addressed first and foremost rather than discussing a primary plat. Steve Stromquist Agreed with the neighbors —the proposal is too much retail on the south side. Sue Westermeier Agreed with the neighbors and other committee members comments regarding the amount of retail on the north side as well as traffic in the area. Joe Scima, attorney said the traffic study /analysis would be provided this week. Sue Westermeier agreed with Kevin Heber —the Rezone should be discussed first. Kevin Heber questioned whether or not there would be significant change as far as C -3 zoning is concerned. Michael Hollibaugh addressed the Committee and the developer. If this ground is not rezoned to retail, what is appropriate for this corridor? Is it a good residential corridor? Kevin Heber did not think that residential is out of the question at this location. Sue Westermeier did not want a multi- tenant development at this location. Michael Hollibaugh noted that a prior application for this site was for multi- tenant and the neighbors were opposed to it —there is no support for higher density residential. Joe Scimia gave a brief history of this parcel regarding prior applications; the multi family development petition was strongly remonstrated against to the point that the petitioner did not want to create animosity and go back and re- develop a plan for the second time. This property could not be sold for single family development. The petitioner has held this ground for approximately 5 years and has a lot of money invested thus far. The second proposal for this ground was brought in by another developer was eventually withdrawn. The proposal by Mann Development, a retail/office development was also greatly opposed due to height issues and other components. So, we can't do multi family, we can't do retail/ office development. What we tried to do is look at a development that had the components of residential as far as height, materials, etc. that would allow some uses that are office and medical, and some minimal retail in the corner parcel. Again, every time we have seriously tried to re -act, we have been told that if it is not S- 1, there is nothing to talk about and we are wasting our time. The neighbors would like input, but their position to date has been S -1 or nothing. We would like to meet with the neighbors, have dialogue and comments, but that is not happening. What is happening is that the neighbors just walk out of a meeting as soon as they hear that the petitioner is not willing to keep the ground S -1. We are not having good dialogue, and we are open to it. We have tried to incorporate the neighbors' comments, we have up- graded the development and provided more architectural detail, we re -did the site plan layout—we need more S:/P1anCommission/Minutes /Committees /SpecStudies /2008jan08 3 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 specifics if we are at the point that maybe there will be no more dialogue, maybe we need to go forward after next month. Dialogue is not happening at this point! If it is not going to be retail, and not multi- family, what does that leave? Sue Westermeier asked if the petitioner had considered senior housing. Jim Thomas, Hearthview Residential, said he has had people approach him regarding Senior Housing. This particular site is a remnant parcela scrap piece. Hearthview would like to do something high quality that can be accomplished economically as well. If it cannot be accomplished economically, it is not realistic. To make the numbers work, the price point and density required cannot blend with the adjacent neighborhood and would have to go non residential use. This proposal is the least retail of all. Essentially, this is Susan Westermeier suggested just taking out the retail totally. Jim Thomas responded that this is neighborhood retail and offices—senior housing has already been talked about —they need a certain proximity and connectivity for services and that tends to be multi -story and everything we have heard from the neighbors is low, low, low. It is residential in its rendering and does not look like office buildings, but it is three stories and has not been brought forward. Ann Vandiviere referred to the Kroger Center at 146"' and Hazel Dell on the Noblesville side—moving south on Hazel Dell on the Carmel side, there is retail all the way to 126"' Street —there is enough retail. Ann suggested razing the existing home on the property, re- building, and selling to individual property owners for single- family residence. However, don't tear down all the trees. Steve Dauby commented that due to the amount of time Hearthview has invested in this ground, the only way for them to get any money out is to go retail. Mr. Dauby stated that to the best of his knowledge and recollection, he had not seen a "For Sale" sign on this property for quite a few years. Mr. Dauby did not understand the need to change the zoning so that they can help the developer reimburse themselves. Jim Thomas reported that the property was listed with Collier, Turley, Martin, Tucker and the only offers received were for retail, gas station, etc. The neighbors that surround this site say what a horrible place it is to live as far as traffic and retail on the north side of the street, and yet, they insist that the parcel remain S -1 to be developed residentially. Joe Scimia noted that the site does has significant features--difference in grade, with trees, landscape area, 150 -foot buffer —this is a difficult parcel. There is NO demand for housing right now in this area at a price that is acceptable. What does the Commission see there? We need a little guidance. If the retail component is really bothersome, and maybe it would be better all office, is that more comfortable, given the high level of design and architecture? Kelli Lawrence said the County has approved only limited access onto 146"' Street —right in/right out. Sue Westermeier asked if there would be limited access to Gray Road. If this were developed as office buildings, is there any feel for the potential number of employees? Kelli Lawrence responded that the traffic engineer is not in favor of limiting access to Gray, since that would put pressure on 146"' Street. If developed as offices, there would probably be 250 employees at this site. S:/P1anCommission/Minutes /Committees /SpecStudies /2008jan08 4 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Steve Dauby asked that if this is developed as offices, an up -dated traffic study be done. The only way the Woodfield traffic currently can exit their subdivision is when the light at 146 and Gray Road turns red. A traffic study needs to be done because of the direct impact on the adjacent subdivision. Michael Hollibaugh commented that anything done at this corner will impact traffic. Michael referred to a similar project in the Fishers area at Cumberland Road (south east corner) and the traffic problem was not catastrophic. Architecturally, it is surrounded by pretty nice residential perhaps $300,000 and up. Jim Thomas said that the bank outlot is a very important component of the proposal. Sue Westermeier agreed with comments made by Kevin Heber. If this proposal can be pared down, we will look at it again. Steve Dauby commented that he has been in residence a long time and has a lot of money inveted in his home. "We think we have the right to stand up for S -1 zoning. Ann Vandiviere was in favor of S -1 residential zoning as it currently is zoned. Steve Stromquistg ave his personal opinion, that Carmel is over -built for this type of project. The renderings are good, but this is a terrible location. At the same time, I hate to see the land sit vacant. Joe Scimia said he would like to meet two weeks out —sit down with Steve Stromquist, Cesare Turin, and Steve Dauby to see how this development can be pared down. The petitioner would like to meet prior to the February committee. Mr. Scimia said he would send first class mail notice of the meeting to the four people from the public who are present this evening but did not want to do another full mailing to all adjacent property owners. (The Committee agreed.) The petitioner /neighborhood meeting would be held the week of January 21 st Docket No. 07070003 Z, 146 Gray Rezone (146 St Office Complex) and Docket No. 07070004 PP, 146 St Office Complex were continued to the February 05 meeting of the Special Studies Committee with an interim meeting to occur between the applicant and the neighbors in attendance this evening. 5. Docket No. 07090014 DP /ADLS: Weston Park, lot 2 Mike's Carwash The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a car wash. The site is located at 10580 Michigan Rd. and is zoned I -1 /Industrial within the US 421 Overlay. Filed by Jim Shinaver of Nelson Frankenberger for Mike's Car Wash Inc. Jim Shinaver, attorney, Nelson Frankenberger appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also in attendance: owners Bill and Jerry Daum; David Ellis, Engineer; Frank Hines, architect; Mike Flechner, landscape architect. The proposed facility is located at the southwest intersection of 106 Street and Michigan Road. Some comments were received at public hearing that pertained to the stacking capabilities on the site as well as site circulation and safety issues. As a result, the site plan was re- evaluated and some revisions made that increase stacking capacity and improve site circulation for this proposal. The suggestions from the Commission and the revisions to the plan have benefited the project in a positive manner. After some site revisions, the car wash has been moved from the northern S:/P1anCommission/Minutes /Committees /SpecStudies /2008jan08 5 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 portion of the site to the center of the property and the vacuum bays have been distributed along the northern property line. This revision opened up the site; there is now an additional access point on the northern property line. The main entrance is along an access road and customers would exit in a westerly direction. Also as a result of comments received, the petitioner will implement enter /exit signs as well as arrows on the asphalt to help direct traffic. The improved site plan includes 4lanes of stacking and provides for safer site circulation for customers. The petitioner has spent additional monies and re- located a County drainage easement from the northwest corner of the site to an off -site location; this also allowed relocation of the infrastructure within the easement and will also allow the petitioner to incorporate more significant landscaping and shrubs in the northwest corner. The petitioner still maintains significant buffering along Michigan Road with mounding and additional plantings. The petitioner has been granted approval from INDOT to encroach into their right -of -way area. Previously, the petitioner contemplated a new vacuum system —upon further reflection, a new vacuum system cannot be implemented on this site. The petitioner will be analyzing new equipment for hoses —not included in this proposal. The petitioner proposes to utilize the same type of vacuum and change system as those used at the Range Line Road location. Frank Hines, Cripe Engineers distributed new color renderings of the building elevations and also the building material of the roof. The property is zoned industrial, and a car wash is a permitted use. However, the petitioner is seeking certain variances as it relates to signage and landscaping issues. Referring to the Department Report, the petitioner offered the following response: The petitioner has been in communication with Scott Brewer, Urban Forester. At this time, there is no major outstanding issue. Regarding the County Highway and County Surveyor—currently there are no major outstanding issues. Construction drawings for this project will be submitted this week; concernsif any —would be technical in nature and addressed in the final approval process. The petitioner will be submitting full size plans Thursday of this week. The multi- tenant ground sign location has not been shown because it is actually off -site. The petitioner is seeking a variance for the ground sign. Electronic copies of the site plan and building elevations will be submitted this week as well as drainage calculations. The building height is confirmed at 20 feet. The lighting plan provides for no more than point three foot candles at the property lines. Frank Hines, architect, high lighted the use of "Green" or "LEED" practices. Mike's uses a water reclamation system that reduces the impact of this development. Due to the nature of the site circulation, it is difficult to reduce the amount of pavement on site. The petitioner is generous with green materials on site wherever possible and is working with Scott Brewer, Urban Forester S:/P1anCommission/ Minutes Committees /SpecStudies /2008jan08 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 as well as meeting green architectural standards. The roof membrane system is white or gray with the credit system, there are lots of ways to achieve LEEDS points. Mike's commits to exploring those options to express green desires. Jim Shinaver noted no major concers with the Department Staff, the County, or the Urban Forester and requests a favorable recommendation at this time. Department Report, Christine Barton Holmes: The revisions provide for more stacking; car stacking is not as visible and is mitigated by the landscaping. The Department has no major concerns with the requested variances. The Department is recommending that this item be forwarded to the Jan 24 meeting of the Plan Commission with a favorable recommendation. Committee Comments: Susan Westermeier expressed concern as to how this facility will look from Michigan Roada sketch or computer generated picture to show at the full Commission meeting would be helpful. It would be even better if the petitioner could incorporate more LEEDS components in the building. Recycling the water is a great idea, but anything more than can be done is a plus. Frank Hines noted the location of the trash receptacles, the dumpster —each vacuum island has its own trash container. The dumpster is at the end of the drive in a brick enclosure, covered, and has wooden gates. All mechanical equipment is inside the building —there is nothing visible on the roof -top, since it has a 20 -foot parapet. Sue Westermeier asked if the Petitioner is responsible for the ground sign. Jim Shinaver responded in the affirmative. The petitioner would co -op with other tenants, but they will return for signage request. Kevin Heber asked if it was typical to vote on a project before BZA ruling and felt that it was awkward to vote at this time with so many variances being requested. Susan Westermeier asked what would happen if the BZA only approved two of the variances and not the others. Jim Shinaver said that either the petitioner would have to fully comply or based on the denial and the variance being sought, they may be able to apply for a different variance than the one denied. This was discussed with the Dept. Staff, chicken/egg thing, BZA or Plan Commission first. In this particular case, it was advisable to have Plan Commission review and approval first, and the vote would be conditioned upon BZA doing their job. Although there are a number of variances, they relate to this type of use. Susan Westermeier thought the traffic flow design could still be improved upon and felt there was a potential problem with the vacuum access —the facility on Range Line Road is badly laid out. S:/ P1anCommission/ Minutes Committees /SpecStudies /2008jan08 7 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Mr. Daum explained the traffic flow and that the majority of customers vacuum their car after it is washed. Susan Westermeier wanted to forward Docket No. 07090014 DP /ADLS, Weston Park, Lot 2, Mike's Carwash to the full Commission with a favorable recommendation, and making it conditioned upon the Staff receiving all materials requested, and BZA approval. Kevin Heber stated that he was not comfortable voting on this item before the BZA had voted. Kevin's second concern was the noise factor. Noise was not addressed at the Range Line Road facility—blower noise. A council member had mentioned the noise factor to Kevin and wondered if there was any way to mitigate the noise. Jim Shinaver responded that the site is zoned Industrial and a car wash is a permitted use. The petitioner has every intent of complying with the Noise Ordinance. At this time, there are no plans to add additional sound buffering. The petitioner has worked in conjunction with the staff, at no time did the staff suggest that the petitioner appear before the BZA first. Kevin said that it was perhaps a statement made and not a commitment regarding the blower noise. The Michigan Road corridor is totally different than Range Line Road. Kevin thought perhaps he should check it out personally, but felt that it was still awkward to vote at this time. Jim Shinaver was understanding of Kevin Heber's position, but did not want the project to be delayed another month while the project went to BZA and back to the full Commission in February. Steve Stromquist said he had no problem voting at this time. Susan Westermeier made formal motion to forward Docket No. 07090014 DP /ADLS, Weston Park, Lot 2, Mike's Carwash to the Plan Commission with a favorable recommendation, conditioned upon all concerns being addressed, the submission of all materials to the Department as required by Staff prior to the full Commission meeting in January, seconded by Steve Stromquist. The vote was two in favor, one opposed (Heber) no decision. Susan Westermeier made formal motion to forward Docket No. 07090014 DP /ADLS, Weston Park, Lot 2, Mike's Carwash to the full Commission with no recommendation, conditioned upon all concerns being addressed, the submission of all materials and paperwork to the Department as required by Staff prior to the full Commission meeting in January, and the submission of renderings, drawings, etc. to be presented at Commission, seconded by Steve Stromquist. The vote was 3 in favor, none opposed. There was no further business to come before the Committee; therefore the meeting adjourned at 7:47 PM S :/P1anCommission/ Minutes /Committees /SpecStudies /2008j an08 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Steve Stromquist, Chairperson Ramona Hancock, Secretary S :/P1anCommission/ Minutes /Committees /SpecStudies /2008j an08 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417