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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes SpecStdy 03-04-08City of Carmel CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION - SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE TUESDAY, MARCH 4, 2008 Minutes The Special Studies Committee of the Carmel Plan Commission met on March 4, 2008 at 6:00 PM in the Caucus Rooms of City Hall, Carmel, Indiana. Members present: Wayne Haney, Kevin "Woody" Rider, Rick Ripma (late arrival) and Susan Westermeier, thereby establishing a quorum. Department of Community Services Staff in attendance: Christine Barton - Holmes and Rachel Boone. The Special Studies Committee considered the following items: 1. Docket No. 08020002 ADLS Amend: Weston Pointe - Outlot 3 -Pizza Hut Express The applicant seeks approval for building and site modifications for a restaurant pick -up window. The site is located at 11145 N. Michigan Rd. and is zoned B- 2/Business within the US 421 Overlay. Filed by David Gilman of Williams Realty Group. David Gilman, Williams Realty Group, appeared before the Committee representing the applicant as owner of the property. A lease is being negotiated with Pizza Hut Express —a smaller, restaurant -type pizzeria that has a pick -up window only and very limited indoor seating. The property is located at 106th Street within the 421 Michigan Road Overlay and is part of the Weston Pointe Development. The adjoining property to the north is Altum Gardens & Landscape Center, opposite the site is an undeveloped lot and remaining commercial development surrounds the outlot on the south and west. Weston Pointe is a small center, less than 8,000 square feet and the Pizza Hut Express would occupy about 2,400 square feet. The applicant is asking that the Committee allow them to do an ADLS Amendment and support their efforts in securing a variance to allow the pick -up window that would be visible from US 421. The site plan shows stacking space for six (6) vehicles plus an additional 5 spaces. At times, the stacking will block the 10th parking space and interfere with ingress /egress. This facility is a pick -up window only —the drive -thru service has a tendency to move along at a faster pace and the six stacking spaces are felt to be ample for their needs. The Staff recommended that the five parking spaces that abut the building to the east be reserved for employees only. That would help mitigate the conflict between any additional stacking and a S: /PlanCommission /Committees /Special Studies /2008mar04 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 1 typical customer wanting to get in/out. The employees would be more fixed and parked for longer periods of time with no need for in/out. Signage would indicate employee parking only. Again, at the recommendation of the Staff, the pick -up window circulates behind the building and exits on the north side of the building and will be designated "One Way Only." At the end of the building, near the landscape area and the bike racks, two signs will be placed -one on either side of the aisle way — "Do Not Enter." No one would be able to enter the opposite direction and cause a traffic conflict. The applicant is trying to minimize the impact and the circulation of acceptable traffic pattern conflict with parked vehicles and the drive -thru window and still accommodate the client's desire for a pick -up window for their use. Some of the landscaping installed on US 421 can be re- located —the pick -up window will be visible, but not visible to the point that there would be an adverse impact on the motoring public. The applicant is requesting approval of this petition, subject to BZA approval. The applicant is willing to commit that if anything changes from this Committee presentation and approval at the BZA level, the applicant will voluntarily return to the Committee and share that information. If nothing changes, the applicant would like this petition moved forward as soon as possible. Dept. Report, Rachel Boone: Will there be a menu board and traffic directional signs? The Department requested "Do Not Enter" signs at the north side of the building for traffic circulation; also the "Employee Parking Only" signage. The sizes are standard for these types of signs and there are no outstanding issues regarding the signage. Mr. Gilmore responded that there will be no additional signs other than those suggested by the Department for traffic flow. Dept. Report, Christine B. Holmes: The pick -up window only requires a variance due to the Overlay and the visibility from Michigan Road. The petitioner is asking approval for 6 stacking spaces rather than 10 as required. The Department is in favor of this petition and recommends approval. Sue Westermeier asked if the petitioner was comfortable with the "Do Not Enter" sign and if the traffic will flow easily. Whether or not there are six spaces or 10 needs to be decided by the BZA. "Woody" Rider commented that from his experience in the restaurant business, if there are more than six people at this facility at any one time, they would need another facility. Rick Ripma asked the Department what had changed with drive -thru facilities, formerly not allowed in the 421 Overlay. Christine Barton Holmes explained that Starbucks, Wendy's, Burger King, and the banks all have a drive -thru facility. The main difference with Burger King is that people are pulling in to a menu board and moving ahead —the pick -up window facility would be "phone ahead" and pick -up only. S: /PlanCommission /Committees /Special Studies /2008mar04 2 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 Sue Westermeier asked where parking would occur in the event a pizza is not ready and people need to park for a time. Dave Gilman said that there are 20 spaces ear- marked for the pizza pick -up; cars can pull up and wait. Again, the petitioner is willing to enter into voluntary, self-imposed commitments and will with the Urban Forester to re- locate whatever landscaping needs to be re- located to accommodate the drive -thru facility. Eliminating a menu board and making a pick -up window only requires less stacking. Sue Westermeier made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08020002 ADLS Amend, Weston Pointe, Outlot 3 Pizza Hut Express, subject to approval of BZA Docket No. 08020030 V approval, no menu board, and the petitioner working with the Urban Forester regarding landscaping, seconded by "Woody" Rider and APPROVED 4 -0. 2. Docket No. 08010013 ADLS Amend: Weston Pointe, Outlot 3 — Dumpster Enclosure The applicant seeks approval to amend the trash dumpster enclosure. The site is located at 11145 N Michigan Rd. and is zoned B- 2/Business within the US 421 Overlay. Filed by Dave Gilman of Williams Realty Group. OFFICIALLY WITHDRAWN 3. Docket No. 07030035 DP: Pro -Med Lane - Holiday Inn The applicant seeks site plan approval for a full- service hotel. The site is at 136th Street and Pro - Med Lane, and is zoned B -6 /Business within the US 31/Meridian Street Overlay. Filed by Stacey Fouts of DeBoy Land Development Services, Inc. 4. Docket No. 07070009 ADLS: Holiday Inn at Pro Med Ln The applicant seeks architecture /design approval for a full- service hotel. The site is at 136"' Street and Pro Med Lane, and is zoned B6, within the US 31/Meridian Street Overlay. Filed by Dave Coots of Coots, Henke & Wheeler for Midwest Hospitality Group, Inc. Note: Items 3 and 4 were heard together. Dave Coots, attorney appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Also in attendance: Mike DeBoy, DeBoy Land Services, and Matt Brown, traffic engineer with A &F Engineering (late arrival.) At previous Committee meetings, concern has been expressed regarding the traffic situation at this particular location. Dave Coots had traffic counts available that were utilized in the original traffic report and counts from February 27. The traffic counts are consistent with the extrapolated number used from the 2003 traffic studies that were done because of Old Meridian improvements. From the original report, questions were raised by Gary Duncan as to whether or not the right turn lane on the north side of 136"' Street from Pro -Med Lane to Old Meridian would be a requirement and whether or not the cost of that would be contributed to the ultimate fix for this location when proposed by INDOT. Dave Coots distributed the most current drawing available from INDOT in terms of what is contemplated at the intersection. It is probably well -known that the City is in negotiation with INDOT or some level of discussion regarding what they will do at this intersection, whether a round - about, a north/south on/off ramp, it affects this intersection by turning it into a "T" intersection and taking away the conversion of traffic that exists there presently. S: /PlanCommission /Committees /Special Studies /2008mar04 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 3 There was also a request from the Committee regarding the elevation depicting the proposed building with mature landscaping, etc. Mike DeBoy will address this issue. Drawings have been submitted to the Department and are now being circulated —there is a correction regarding the dumpster shown with a chain -link gate when in fact it will be a wooden gate. The petitioner has received tentative approval from Scott Brewer regarding the landscape plan. Gary Duncan's comments have been addressed and copies of the email forwarded to Committee members. Mike DeBoy addressed the Committee and said that the petitioner has responded to staff comments from the last meeting and feels they have successfully addressed them. One of the reasons for the revised landscape plan was due to changing the location of the dumpster at the request of Scott Brewer, Urban Forester. As a part of that, Scott Brewer asked for additional landscaping in areas that were initially not going to be touched, but Scott wanted certain areas cleared out and additional landscaping provided. Additionally, the drive aisles are now at 24 feet to accommodate the garage and dumpster in that area. This development has 62% lot coverage, 65% is permitted. Dave Coots reported that Scott Brewer is satisfied with the landscape proposal and wants to see some of the existing site conditions and location of the trees that will be preserved. Matt Brown, A &F Engineering, addressed the Committee and explained the traffic count that was done previously in 2005— there are an additional 30 plus units in the AM peak hours and 162 in the PM peak hours. Basically the count was the 2005 count elevated by 3% per year. After the report was submitted, A &F was asked to go back and do an additional count. There are some movements that are higher, some that are lower. Previously, the round -about was under construction and the additional counts could not be done. Overall, none of the recommendations or conclusions in the study change dramatically, and the levels of service are adjusted only slightly due to delays. Volumes are slightly different in the AM and PM from the previous study. Rick Ripma: So, a 10% increase didn't change anything? Matt Brown: It can, but in this case, it does not. It is not due to road design, but because of the range where we are and what can physically be done to improve the intersection —it does not matter. Rick Ripma: In other words, you can't improve the intersection enough that it doesn't matter. Matt Brown: It improves the intersection, but where we are today with a 10% increase is not enough to improve it based on where we were before on the baseline. Sue Westermeier: Baseline being the January study? Matt Brown: Yes. Sue Westermeier asked how it is determined —if the numbers had come back 400 or more —at what point do you ask a number of questions relating to the traffic study date, time, school traffic, peak hours? Matt Brown referred to the levels of service —right now there is an extreme delay on west -bound Pro -Med as you are trying to exit; basically exiting 136th Street and trying to turn left on Smokey Row and onto Old Meridian —that is the major delaying portion. While the count has increased, it is not to the position where we would say it warrants a traffic signal. Probably 4 or 5 hours of additional, heavy traffic and not just peak hour traffic would warrant a traffic signal. S: /PlanCommission /Committees /Special Studies /2008mar04 4 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 "Woody" Rider bluntly stated that the traffic configuration sucks -they ruined the round -about and turned it into a "T" at US 31. Sue Westermeier thought it was sort of useless. Rick Ripma: The numbers do not have projections for a hotel —where are the numbers that the hotel will generate? This is a blanket statement, but the Committee needs all up -dated material prior to the next meeting. —what the Committee has is old material. We need all new informational packets with the correct materials, all traffic data, and all new "stuff' as if you were initially submitting. Dave Coots responded that the new stuff is supplementary to the original traffic study and the report being looked at today has the left turn and right turn movements, etc. Those are the baseline accounts that were done February 27th. Rick Ripma: Nothing else has changed on the hotel site? The parking lot has not changed, nothing else has changed? Dave Coots: Yes, there have been up -dates to these drawings and they have been submitted to the Dept. for informational packets. Rick Ripma asked about the Holiday Inn signage. Dave Cots reported that the sign will appear on the north facade and will be white at night, green during the day. Department Report, Christine Barton - Holmes: The Department has received most of the information requested and the dumpster location has been clarified. The off -site drainage and flood plain issue is still under review. The Urban Forester has given tentative approval of the landscape plan. The Department is requesting accurate counts for the traffic study. The signage is day /night plex; the percentage of lot coverage is down. The Department is recommending this item be moved to the April first Committee meeting. Dave Coots commented that in terms of Engineering components, one issue was just resolved in an email from Gary Duncan last week. The overall Pro -Med drainage plan has been addressed; the system does permit additional drainage from this site and will not overload the system. The drainage plan has been submitted to Gary Duncan and the petitioner is awaiting fmal approval. Gary Duncan suggested putting $68,000 in a fund to be utilized later in view of the proposed improvements to UJS 31 intersection. The petitioner will either build a lane or pay into a fund until INDOT decides what they are going to do. Woody Rider was in favor of putting money in the fund. Christine Barton - Holmes stated that the Department is not yet comfortable with this proposal and would like to see traffic counts from the townhomes. The Department will work with Engineering for counts. Susan Westermeier said she would like to hear from Engineering and the Department that there will be no traffic problems. Pursuant to the Committee's request, Dave Coots agreed to submit a consolidation of the current submission to the Committee in advance of the April first meeting. S: /PlanCommission /Committees /Special Studies /2008mar04 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 5 Rick Ripma suggested that if the petitioner does not get the materials to the Department in advance of the meeting for distribution, the petitioner will voluntarily continue rather than appearing at Committee; Dave Coots concurred. Docket No. 07030035 Pro -Med Lane — Holiday Inn, and Docket No. 07070009 ADLS, Holiday Inn at Pro -Med Lane were CONTINUED to the April 1, 2008 Special Studies Committee. 5. Docket No. 07070003 Z: 146th & Gray Rezone (146th St Office Complex) The applicant seeks approval to rezone 11.6 acres from S -1 /Residence to B- 1/Business for an office /retail development. The site is at the southeast corner of 146th St. and Gray Rd. Filed by Kelli Lawrence of Hearthview Residential, LLC. 6. Docket No. 07070004 PP: 146th St Office Complex The applicant seeks primary plat approval for 5 lots on 11.6 acres. The site is at the southeast corner of 146th St. and Gray Rd. and is zoned S -1 /Residence, pending a B -1/ Business rezone. Filed by Kelli Lawrence of Hearthview Residential, LLC. Joe Scimia, attorney, Baker & Daniels, appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Alsol in attendance: Kelli Lawrence and Jim Thomas on behalf of Hearthview Residential, LLC. Kelli Lawrence gave a brief history and synopsis of this Docket —a proposed office complex on 11.6 acres at 146th Street and Gray Road. Steve Stromquist, former chairperson of the Special Studies Committee joined the meeting in progress. As a previous member of the Special Studies Committee, Steve monitored several meetings with the petitioner and the neighborhood. Some changes have been made in the site plan to create more residentially scaled buildings. A masonry fence /screen wall has been added for the benefit of the neighbors to the south. The entrances are mandated by the County and Engineering. The Bank has been oriented off 146th Street. At the latest meeting with the neighborhood, creating a berm to the south and moving the buildings was suggested, thereby using the northwest portion of the site for the major portion of the development —this did not work efficiently. Actually, the buildings will serve as a better buffer than a berm. Joe Scimia said that the petitioner has tried to accommodate the neighbors, but some things cannot be done because of the difficult site. The Commitments regarding the rezone refer to the number of lots on the site -8— together with Block A-4 %2 acres will remain undeveloped in addition to the drainage facility. The petitioner has also agreed to no more than 80,000 square feet of gross floor area. No individual building would have more than 15,000 square feet; all buildings will be one - story. B -1 allows neighborhood retail —the petitioner has agreed to eliminate all retail uses and will provide a list of excluded uses. The petitioner will also commit that the development will be constructed in accordance with the site plan submitted. Materials will conform to those requested by the neighbors and some by Staff. The roof design creates a residential feel and the development will be consistent. The ADLS portion will come before the Plan Commission again before the buildings are built. The landscaping is subject to ADLS approval. The S: /PlanCommission /Committees /Special Studies /2008mar04 6 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 trees in the southeast corner of the site are either dead or dying and will be removed. All dumpsters will be screened from view. Signs will be limited and free - standing— location limited. Dept Report, A few outstanding concerns —the B -1 District is unusual in that it does not require ADLS approval; platting is also unique to this district. The access drive thru the project will not be dedicated as public right -of -way and a Subdivision Waiver and variance will be required for lots not facing a public street /right -of -way. The petitioner will be appearing before the BZA and the Plan Commission to accomplish that. The Waiver and Variance will not affect the site design of the project. The Dept. would like to see more detail and screening of the masonry wall and landscaping and ALDS when filed. The petitioner continues to work with the Urban Forester to preserve trees in the eastern portion of the site. There is a concern with the configuration of the drive - thru —it no longer faces 146th Street and is away from Gray Road, but there are safety concerns. Engineering has no outstanding issues. After discussion, the Department recommends continuing to the April 1, 2008 Committee meeting. Susan Westermeier questioned the B -1 designation and no ADLS review. Joe Scimia reminded the Committee that this is a rezone and primary plat. Christine Barton - Holmes stated that a Development Plan is not required, however, ADLS will be. BZA approval is still required for the lots in the rear that do not face a public right -of -way. (The City does not want right-of-way—does not want to maintain it ) Steve Stromquist recapped the meetings between the petitioner and the neighborhood. This is a very difficult piece of land and nice homes surrounding. This is also an intensive intersection with development to the north and south. The petitioner has been very cooperative in working with the neighborhood association. The berm requested by the neighbors would not work —it would be too big to function. Members of the public in attendance: Cesare Turin 5436 Woodfied Drive, President of Woodfield HOA, objected to a bank and dry cleaning facilities in the development and would like low traffic generators —as low as possible. The trees in the southeast corner is actually a thin row of trees. Mr. Turin was in favor of the wall and would like most of the development shifted toward the northwest corner of the site, with the exception of a bank or dry cleaning facility. Holly Schnider 5152 Sue Drive, circuated pictures of the view of the site from her property at the thin tree line. From her double windows, the view is low due to the change in grade. A brick wall would probably not be high enough for screening and would maybe recommend tall evergreens for screening. Julie Sicklesteel, 5164 Sue Drive, circulated a photo view from her home — lights can be seen from the Walgreens at the north west corner of 146th and Gray Road, in fact you can see through the proposed development site to Walgreens. The tree line is actually an easement and could be removed by the County at any time. Joe Scimia responded that evergreens in the corner would be a problem, since the Mitchner Ditch runs through there and 75 feet from the top of bank cannot be touched. The flood plain also cuts through and cannot be utilized. The petitioner is suggesting a combination of evergreens and the brick wall. A fmal plan will be submitted, but the full intent is to provide shielding to the two homes on Sue Drive as stated. Planting in the ditch and flood plain is not allowed. Rick Ripma asked if the residents could put trees in their yard to screen. S: /PlanCommission /Committees /Special Studies /2008mar04 7 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417 The residents said it was not workable with the limited space and the difference in grade. The residents want the development moved farther away from their rear yard. Jim Thomas said he has discussed intensity versus coverage. Mr. Thomas would be happy to do a smaller footprint with more intense uses. In terms of dollars and not square footage, the simple answer is one of economic density. Wayne Haney commented that the development should be designed so that the roof and rooftop equipment cannot be seen. If the architecture is decent to look at, it will look right over the fence. Screening by dense evergreens is probably as fine a combination as possible. Also, the fence ends abruptly at the setback of the legal drain. There may be a concern with small children in the area. Joe Scimia said there is a natural barrier to get to the ditch itself —it is a dry detention pond. Ceasare Turin again does not want a bank in the proposed development. There are 11 banks within one and one -half miles. Mr. Turin would prefer a medical/professional complex without a bank and/or dry cleaners. Rick Ripma wanted to see a concept of what the buildings would look like —(in the packets.) Jim Thomas said he would put roof slope —no Mansard Roofs —in the commitment. Joe Scimia said the buildings require a residential feel and the petitioner has committed to that. The petitioner must return for ADLS approval. Department, Christine Barton - Holmes: There are some outstanding issues: landscaping, ADLS, details on fmal design of the drive -thru, details on tree preservation, and housekeeping issues on labeling on the plat. Rick Ripma said the Committee needs to determine whether or not this proposal is appropriate for this site in view of the rezone petition. Susan Westermeier made formal motion to continue Docket No. 07070003 Z, 146th St Office Complex, and Docket No. 07070004 PP, 146th Street Office Complex to the April 1, 2008 Committee meeting, seconded by Woody Rider, approved 4 -0. There was no further business to come before the Committee and the meeting adjourned at 7:40 PM. Ramona Hancock, Secretary Rick Ripma, Chairperson S: /PlanCommission /Committees /Special Studies /2008mar04 8 ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417