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CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
SPECIAL STUDIES COMMITTEE
TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2008
Minutes
The Special Studies Committee of the Carmel Plan Commission met on Tuesday, April 1, 2008 in
the Caucus Rooms of City Hall.
Members in attendance: Wayne Haney, Kevin "Woody" Rider, Rick Ripma, Susan Westermeier.
DOCS Staff in attendance: Rachel Boone, Christine Barton Holmes. John Molitor, Counsel was
also in attendance.
The Special Studies Committee considered the following items:
1. Docket No. 08020004 ADLS Amend: Clarian HealthNelocity Sports Signage
The applicant seeks approval for 1 new ground sign. The site is located at 1402 Chase Ct. It is
zoned M- 3/Manufacturing. Filed by Charlie Frankenberger of Nelson and Frankenberger.
Jim Shinaver, attorney, Nelson and Frankenberger appeared before the Committee representing
the applicant. Molly Paul, Velocity Sports was also in attendance. The informational brochures
explained the relationship between Velocity Sports and Clarian Health and each tenant will be
recognized on the ground sign located at 1402 Chase Court.
The petitioner appeared before the Board of Zoning Appeals for permission for the ground sign.
The sign will not be internally illuminated— ground up- lighting only.
Department Report, Rachel Boone: The sign is located adjacent to Chase Court and is 4 feet tall,
8 feet wide, 32 square feet sign area. There will be direct spotlighting on one side of the sign.
The sign is situated 5 feet from the right -of -way and landscaped. The petitioner will appear
before the Board of Public Works, either April 16 of the May meeting. The Department has no
issues.
In response to questions from Rick Ripma, Jim Shinaver said the back of the sign is a solid, gray
tone color that will be the same material as the front of the sign—no text. Currently there is
signage on the building.
Wayne Haney asked about the materials in the sign —Jim Shinaver said the sign finish will be a
stucco, aggregated acrylica solid, durable material.
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"Woody" Rider made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08020004 ADLS Amend, Clarian
Health/Velocity Sports Signage as presented, seconded by Wayne Haney, APPROVED 4 -0.
Docket No. 08020005 ADLS Amend: Penn Medical Plaza (REI Medical Office
Building)
The applicant seeks approval for 8 new signs. The site is at 11900 N. Pennsylvania St. It
is zoned B -6 /Business within the US 31 Overlay. Filed by Charlie Frankenberger of
Nelson and Frankenberger.
Jim Shinaver, attorney, Nelson and Frankenberger appeared before the Committee representing
the applicant. Also present: Bob Whitacre, Penn Medical Plaza; Cindy Ulen, Essential
Architectural Sign Company.
The applicant is requesting approval for 8 new signs at 11900 North Pennsylvania, opposite the
former Conseco headquarters facility. The applicant is constructing a medical office building that
will accommodate multiple tenants.
The sign package for consideration contains tenant wall signs, address sign, directory sign, a
ground sign, and safety signage. There are four individual wall signs, each 20 square feet in size,
aggregate total size of 80 square feet. The Board of Zoning Appeals granted approval to break
up the one wall sign into four —each one is 20 square feet in size. The four tenant wall signs are
essentially located on the four corners of the building and designed to provide visibility and notice
to passers -by coming from Pennsylvania Street.
The name used on the tenant wall sign is Urology of Indiana —there will be additional tenants and
not all are known at this time. The names on the signs would be those of the four individual
tenants in those particular locations.
The address sign will appear on the eastern portion of the building, above the first floor window
under one of the tenant wall signs. There are other office buildings in this corridor and by
providing the address on the building in a size that is hopefully visible to passers -by, the building
can be located quickly and appropriate turns made to the site.
The Ground Sign was previously approved as part of the original ADLS package for this
particular office park. However, the sign will have the name of the office building, "Penn Medical
Plaza," and the address of the building. This sign will be dual -face, constructed of brick and
similar building materials as the building itself.
The Tenant Directory Sign will be located on the western facade of the building. Although this
building has its closest elevation to Pennsylvania Street, the main entrance into the building is on
the western side of the building. A Tenant Directory Sign will facilitate locating a particular
tenant within the building.
The last two signs are termed safety signage located above the cover, overhead entrance to the
facility. These signs indicate clearance height so that drivers of SUV's or Vans or larger vehicles
know the clearance height.
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The Board of Zoning Appeals has approved the number of signs for this site and the sizes of those
signs. The Committee review this evening is strictly for ADLS and the design of the signs.
Committee approval only is required at this time.
Department Report, Rachel Boone: Rachel asked the petitioner if they would commit to 20
square feet per tenant only, no "swapping" from one to another —this could be an issue in the
future.
Bob Whitacre agreed to comply with the Department's request and commit to 20 square feet per
tenant only and no "swapping" from one to another.
Rachel Boone: The sign faces will be white or off white, internally illuminated, individual letters.
Logos would be allowed-25% of the total area (20 square feet) per sign. The Directory Signs
are per the Ordinance and allowed. The ground sign was previously approved. All of the
variances were approved by the BZA. The Department has no outstanding issues and
recommends favorable consideration.
"Woody" Rider asked about the possibility of one tenant taking two signs "Woody" would be in
favor of that.)
Bob Whitacre responded that there was no restriction that each sign had to be a different tenant.
Jim Shinaver said that situation would be an Amended ADLS, and the petitioner would have to
return to the Committee before a sign permit could be issued.
Susan Westermeier posed the question that if Urology of Indiana took up one -half of the building,
could they have a sign on the north and on the east sides of the building —two of the four?
Jim Shinaver explained that the petitioner would still be required to return to Special Studies if
they removed one sign and installed a new sign. At that point, it might be a Staff determination as
to whether or not changing out the sign sizes would require BZA approval. Probably, the
Director would first make a determination because the overall, permitted square footage would
not exceed 80 square feet—it would just be re- positioned. The Director may make a
determination as far as returning to the BZA, but definitely returning to the ADLS Committee.
Susan Westermeier asked about the original approval for the building—it hides the Med -Check
facility.
Jim Shinaver responded that it was done by REI in 2006.
Susan Westermeier made formal motion for approval of Docket No. 08020005 ADLS Amend,
Penn Medical Plaza, as long as no one of the four signs exceeds 20 square feet per sign,
seconded by "Woody" Rider, APPROVED 4 -0.
3. Docket No. 08030006 ADLS Amend: AT &T Signage
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The applicant seeks approval for 1 new wall sign. The site is located at 210 3r Ave. SW. It is
zoned C -2 /Old Town District. Filed by Ron Moenter of Moenter Sign Co.
Ron Moenter, Moenter Sign Co., Shelbyville appeared before the Committee representing the
applicant. Ron Moenter displayed a picture of an existing sign at a location on Post Road; the
proposed wall sign will be the same finish and color as shown. The building is very large.
The sign is not illuminated; only solar.
Department Report, Rachel Boone: The sign is 30 square feet and 4 feet, 3 inches tall. The sign
will have no blue except for the AT &T logo; it is not illuminated. The applicant is merely
changing the signage. The Department has no issues or concerns.
Sue Westermeier said she drove by the building this evening, and it really does need signage.
Mr. Moenter said this particular building probably missed the cut for "SBC" and did not have that
signage.
"Woody" Rider made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08030006 ADLS Amend, AT &T
Signage, seconded by Wayne Haney, APPROVED 4 -0.
4. Docket No. 08030017 ADLS Amend: The Corner Signage
The applicant seeks approval for 2 new multi tenant ground signs. The site is located at 11588
Westfield Blvd. It is zoned B-3/Business within the Carmel Dr. Range line Rd Overlay.
Filed by Paul Reis of Bose McKinney Evans LLP for Corner Associates, LP.
Paul Reis, attorney, Bose McKinney Evans appeared before the Committee representing the
Kite Realty Group. The applicant is requesting two additional ground signs for The Corner
shopping center located at the southwest corner of Range Line Road and 116 Street.
In order to construct two new signs, the applicant first appeared before the Board of Zoning
Appeals to obtain variances. This particular site is the southern -most boundary of the Range Line
Road Overlay Zone; new ground signs are no longer allowed.
This particular center has been in existence for some time and the stores are setback quite a
distance from the street. There is also a substantial grade difference from the road. The ground
signs will increase visibility of the tenants that are inside the center itself. The vacancies in this
center have been up and down, and generally attributed to the fact that many of the tenants do not
have adequate identification.
The right -of -way on 116 Street is 140 feet total. However, the road has been reconstructed and
the sign is technically not within the right -of -way. If the street were to be widened, the sign
would be in the right -of -way. Additionally, if the Center were to be redeveloped, one -half right
of -way would be dedicated to the City. Paul Reis said Angie Conn had spoken with Gary Duncan
in the Engineering Department and they have no issue with locating the sign in the future right -of-
way.
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The landscaping plan was submitted to Scott Brewer for review; it is Paul Reis' understanding
that the plan has been approved.
Paul Reis distributed computer generated renditions of the signs as to what they would look like
along Range Line Road and 116 Street. The general dimensions of the Signs are consistent with
the Sign Ordinance for ground signs. However all of the tenants within the Center are not
reflected on the sign. In order to maximize readability in the panels, 6 of the tenants are being
focused on —this is one of the variances approved by the Board of Zoning Appeals. The height of
the sign at street grade will be five feet, but when measured from the base moving toward the
stores, it is over six feet; this was another variance.
Department Report, Rachel Boone: All variances dealing with the number of signs and size (5
feet tall, 12 feet wide) were approved by the Board of Zoning Appeals. The actual sign area is 42
square feet. The old signs farther back in the Center will be removed and new landscaping beds
designed. The brick base will be internally illuminated; creme, black, and white are the main
colors. The signs are dual -face. The Department is in support of this petition and has no issues.
Sue Westermeier commented that this Center has been hurting for years and the new signs are a
great idea. There is no indication of the tenants located in the center, and this is a great addition.
Rick Ripma asked about the parking spaces.
Paul Reis said they may pick up as many as four, probably where the diagonal parking is located.
There is more than adequate parking within the Center.
Wayne Haney said the sign looked like an aluminum box mounted on the solid brick base —how
thick —how deep?
Paul Reis responded that it was probably just deep enough for the light box, perhaps one foot.
Susan Westermeier made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08030017 ADLS Amend, The
Corner Signage, seconded by "Woody" Rider, APPROVED 4 -0.
5. Docket No. 07030035 DP: Pro -Med Lane Holiday Inn
The applicant seeks site plan approval for a full- service hotel. The site is at 136th Street and Pro
Med Lane, and is zoned 13- 6/13usiness within the US 3I/Meridian Street Overlay. Filed by Stacey
Fouts of DeBoy Land Development Services, Inc.
6. Docket No. 07070009 ADLS: Holiday Inn at Pro Med Ln
The applicant seeks architecture /design approval for a full- service hotel. The site is at 136"' Street
and Pro Med Lane, and is zoned 136, within the US 3I/Meridian Street Overlay. Filed by Dave
Coots of Coots, Henke Wheeler for Midwest Hospitality Group, Inc.
NOTE: Items 5 and 6 were heard together.
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Dave Coots, attorney, Coots, Henke, Wheeler appeared before the Committee representing the
applicant. Also in attendance: Mike DeBoy, DeBoy Land Development.
As requested by the Committee last month, the petitioner re- submitted materials as if this were a
new application. The petitioner met with the Department (Mike Hollibaugh and Christine Barton
Holmes) along with Mike DeBoy and Steve Fehribach to address engineering issues that remained
open and unresolved at the last meeting. The result of that meeting, in essence, is that the
Department was satisfied with Gary Duncan's response to the Engineering issues reflected in the
large print.
Scott Brewer requested changes in the tree preservation plan and structural soils exhibit; the
multi purpose path was moved closer to Smokey Row Road at David Littlejohn's suggestion. The
Dept. of Engineering and the Dept of Community Services have reviewed the up -dated traffic
report, met with the Traffic Engineer, and agree that the study's recommended roadway
improvements will help with traffic congestion at the intersection of Smokey Row Road and Old
Meridian Streets. The traffic report recommended considering the addition of a right turn lane to
the north side of Smokey Row Road. Steve Fehribach also looked at other alternatives such as
"no left turn" signs at this intersection at certain hours of the day— enforcement was an issue.
The other alternative for consideration was a no left turn function at this intersection by forming a
median down Old Meridian to the roundabout so that west bound Smokey Row Road traffic
would have to turn right; incoming traffic from US 31 onto Old Meridian would have to go down
to the roundabout, and come back north on Meridian to turn right onto 136 Street.
Per Dave Coots, Mike Hollibaugh specifically wanted more time to meet with Engineering and
review the recommendations. Mike Hollibaugh had also suggested that the Committee act on
this proposal, subject to the Dept of Community Services and the Dept of Engineering review and
formulation of a design that would be deemed appropriate for this intersection. Midwest
Hospitality would still be responsible for contributing its $68,000 amount to the roadway
improvement fund; some of those funds may be used for improvements at this intersection, or at
the time US 31 and Old Meridian is improved in 2011.
Department Report, Christine Barton Holmes: The Department has worked extensively with the
petitioner in the last six weeks. The Dept of Engineering is in support of moving this item to the
full Plan Commission, subject to their final approval of full construction documents as detailed in
an email from Dept of Engineering dated March 21, 2008. The traffic counts were taken from a
document previously approved by DOCS in 1997. There are a few requested changes to the tree
preservation plan and the structural soils Exhibit. DOCS does agree that the roadway
improvements will help with the traffic congestion. The traffic study does support the current
proposal and a regular hotel at this location. There is a difference of 12 trips between a regular
hotel and a business class hotel. The proposed use is permitted in this zone district and as
currently deigned, no variances are needed —the proposal meets the Ordinance. The DOCS is
recommending this item be brought to a vote by the Committee this evening and returned to the
full Plan Commission for a vote at its next meeting.
"Woody" Rider said it would be problematic to turn south off Smokey Row Road.
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Sue Westermeier commented that unless substantial intersection improvements are made, this area
is not safe for a hotel or anything else.
Christine Barton Holmes stated that a dedicated right turn lane would allow people to turn onto
US 31.
Sue Westermeier said there is an additional alternative on page 20 of the traffic report—Smokey
Row would only be right in/right out. In the long run, all of those people on Old Meridian
wanting to turn left onto Smokey Row would have to go down to the roundabout, turn around
and travel north to make a right turn into Smokey Row. Turning out of where the Holiday Inn
would be on Pro -Med Lane is not safe. The number of cars crossing, going to the high school,
going to the hospital—it is not safe.
Wayne Haney noted that there is no way to turn left onto Old Meridian.
Woody Rider asked about the distance between the lot owned by Justus east of this building and
Kensington Place— response: 230 to 250 feet.
Carol Schleif asked if an agreement had ever been made on this property as to how it would be
developed; an area resident had made the inquiry.
John Molitor, Legal Counsel said there was never a commitment made on this property.
Carol Schleif questioned the tree barrier —not deciduous and offers little screening —and if there
were any requirements for tree preservation and buffering. Carol also did not like the "box" look
of the building and thought it could be eliminated; perhaps a modulating roofline. How can it be
"tweaked" to fit the Overlay better?
Mike DeBoy said he would be happy to do a year -round buffer planting.
The parking spaces and the drive aisles were discussed—parking is deemed adequate; the drive
aisles are at 23 feet. The drainage plan has been approved by the Dept of Engineering.
Christine Barton Holmes said that the petitioner does not need a variance for the buffer and the
petitioner is working with Scott to maximize the green space. The parking is right at the required
number, and there is no concern regarding the building footprint. The major concern has been the
intersection.
Sue Westermeier made formal motion to forward Docket No. 07030035 DP; Pro -Med Lane,
Holiday Inn and Docket No. 070780009 ADLS, Holiday Inn at Pro -Med Lane to the full
Plan Commission with "No Recommendation," seconded by "Woody" Rider, Approved 4 -0.
7. Docket No. 07070003 Z: 146th Gray Rezone (146th St Office Complex)
The applicant seeks approval to rezone 11.6 acres from S -1 /Residence to B- 1/Business
for an office /retail development. The site is at the southeast corner of 146"' St. and Gray Rd.
Filed by Kelli Lawrence of Hearthview Residential, LLC.
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8. Docket No. 07070004 PP: 146th St Office Complex
The applicant seeks primary plat approval for 5 lots on 11.6 acres. The site is at the southeast
corner of 146"' St. and Gray Rd. and is zoned S -1 /Residence, pending a B -1/ Business rezone.
Filed by Kelli Lawrence of Hearthview Residential, LLC.
*Note: Items 7 and 8 were heard together.
Kelli Lawrence, Hearthview Residential appeared before the Committee representing the applicant. Kelli
summarized the changes since the last meeting. The bank lot has been re- oriented for drive -thru stacking;
the width of the drive lane is being reduced to 14 feet to provide more frontage. The petitioner has met with
the neighbors and discussed the best way to buffer their view of the development and the parking area; also
met with landscape architect and discussed a masonry wall south of the dry detention area. After the
meeting, it was decided that screening is still an issue —the wall would not screen second stories. Mature
landscape plantings will be incorporated into the plan to visually screen the development. The Urban
Forester recommended a combination of deciduous and evergreen trees in order to provide a low coverage
as well as the tall coverage in between. Based on hearty, fast growing species, an evergreen hedge was
created consisting of 24, 8 -foot tall evergreens Norway Spruce —and 7, 1012 feet Norway Spruce plus
2 %2 caliper Sycamore trees, 10 -12 feet at planting, to provide a more natural landscape buffer. The total
plantings number 40 as opposed to 20 previously. There was still an issue regarding access from the
parking area to the south and a masonry wall was added to that location to provide some security as well as
visual. The petitioner has amended commitments —has removed a dry cleaning facility and has committed
to no roof -top mechanical equipment.
Department Report, Christine Barton Holmes: Urban Forestry and the Dept of Engineering are
comfortable with moving this item to the full Plan Commission. This proposal is compatible with the
Comprehensive Plan and recognizes low intensity uses such as this. The site plan configuration has
changed at the request of the Department because of the financial institution drive -thru. This proposal is
not ideal, but preferred; the petitioner will provide additional landscaping. The Department is comfortable
with requesting this item be forwarded to the full Plan Commission.
Neighborhood Members present: Cesare Turrin, president, Woodfield HOA; Steve Dauby,
resident of Woodfield, two additional neighbors—ladies unnamed whose back yards abut the
southern property line of the proposed development.
Also in attendance: Steve Stromquist, Plan Commission Member, former Chairperson of
Special Studies Committee. Steve had the following comments:
Steve met with the petitioner and the neighbors and talked about this extensively—in particular
the easement area, drainage, and blocking site -view for the neighbors. It appears that the
neighbors are at a lower grade level, but this is not true —they have direct access and can see
Walgreens on the northwest corner of Gray Road and 146 Street. Steve Stromquist said he is
impressed with the re- design and plantings shown by Kelli Lawrence as well as the wall for
security, aesthetics, and visual buffer. Steve commended the petitioner and the neighbors for
meeting and working to resolve issues.
Wayne Haney also commended the petitioner on the re- design. The landscape buffer will do a lot
for the low masonry wall. Wayne also liked the architectural character of the buildings —they
appear quite residential —there is a lot of articulation of the buildings —and there is no mechanical
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equipment on the roof—compliments to the petitioner.
"Woody" Rider also commended the petitioner for working with the neighbors —this is the way
the process should work.
Public comments from unidentified lady: At issue is the change in zoning —the neighbors felt
pressured by the City for a compromise. The neighbors wanted the development moved farther
away from them and a smaller development —that didn't happen. It feels like it is all about the
builder making money and not what the residents want.
Steve Dauby, 515 Sue Drive, Woodfield: We started with about 250 angry residents in the area
who signed the petition against this project—several attended the public hearing —the comments
are of record. The neighbors stood up for S -1 Zoning— that's what we invested in when we
purchased our homes. There have been several meetings— several nasty meetings —this is eight
months. Again, the neighbors would prefer a professional office park—no retail, no banka
professional office setting. The developer came back with another plan. The bank was still there
and instead of getting smaller, it got bigger. The buildings got pushed back toward our homes to
the south. The landscaping is good, but there are several other items that have not been met
fence around the pond, around the entire development —those things have not been met. We are
very close to agreement, short of 3 or 4 items. The neighbors are totally against the development
as presented this evening, mainly because of inadequate buffering. The location of the right turn
into the development from 146 Street has been moved and traffic from Woodfield Way would
not be able to exit the Woodfield Subdivision —they can barely pull out now. Moving the access
point will almost block the intersection for Woodfield residents. The access is mandated by the
County —there are so many issues and problems with this site: development, access, floodway,
easements, all of those things. The residents feel they have given more than enough to get to this
point. We are simply asking to move the development up—if a building is lost, 3,000 square feet,
so be it. It is better than not doing the development. We have agreed to disagree and will fight
this all the way through Council.
Rick Ripma asked for an overview of what the neighbors had given.
Mr. Dauby referred to the entrance—traffic in/out of the neighborhood; drainage problems—we
know since the development of Bridgewater that water flows to the Mitchner Drain and we see
our back yards eroding away. The water table is higher than it has ever been—is that going to
change? Whether it is a dry pond or wet pond does not matter —the water will come down
Mitchner Drain faster and higher than ever before. We have said we will trust the Engineers.
Would it happen if this was residential? Possibly, depending on the residential. If an Estate went
in this area, there would be one home producing the water and no, it would not happen. There
are a lot of factors, including decreasing home values with this development in our back yard. We
invested in Carmel, in S -1 with no commercial around—to allow this development is giving a
lot— quality of life. Currently there is wildlife in residence -deer, fox —will that continue with
traffic on 146 Street? Probably not, but that is better than looking at traffic coming in to the
bank or a drycleaner, someone coming into an office at 5:30 AM—looking out your back window
and seeing that. Safety is a major concern—whether there is a fence or not, we have to worry
about people walking across our back yard, whether or not the perimeter fence is there. Mr.
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Dauby referred to an article regarding autistic children and how they are drawn to water —the
pond poses a safety hazard for his family and especially his son. The pond will not always have
water in it, but whether it is a 24 -hour period or 36 -hour period, Mr. Dauby would have to worry
about that —there is a severe concern about the pond.
Mr. Dauby went on to say that the residents still do not want the Bank and the development
would look silly with a bank in the corner —that is not what we need. If you think that is what
makes this deal work and we move it farther away from our homes, then we have compromised.
We have done with Steve Stromquist asked us to do.
Kelli Lawrence responded that the petitioner does not want to fight. We have met with the
neighbors several times to look at things from their perspective and try to come to a compromise
that would work for all of us. The location of the access on the site does affect the ability to do
different things. The development has never moved closer to the homes—we have a 150 -foot
buffer—we are approximately 200 to 500 feet from our adjacent neighbors. This is a buffer that
is probably unheard of between a professional office park and a neighborhood area. We started
off with 4 1 /2 acres of our 11 acres as a preservation area because we thought that was the right
thing to do. We tried to save the wooded area all along the southern property line. We are trying
to be good neighbors and will continue to work at that. The neighbors said they preferred
buildings as opposed to parking, so we re- oriented the buildings to provide a building wall. We
have developed a high quality architecture—residentially scaled to reduce the size of the buildings
that would be as residentially scaled in use and density as possible. We eliminated the retail
component in its entirety. We have doubled and increased the maturity of the plantings. Again,
we don't want to fight, but we feel that we have given significantly to try to come to a
compromise with the neighbors.
Steve Dauby added that each of the buildings proposed could have a separate construction
company and developed at different time frames. The neighbors could be looking at continuing
construction for 10 years, however long it takes it to sell or lease the buildings. We could be
dealing with multiple owners —each building could have a different owner. Now we have to
police the association that they will build. Their intent is not known—it is set up to build the
bank, exit the development, sell each one of the pads to someone who wants to come in and build
their own office building, and we are left looking at a parking lot, a bank, and dealing with seven
construction companies and seven different owners. That is not what we planned on, and I don't
think that is fair.
Rick Ripma ended public input at this time.
Kelli Lawrence said it was not the intention to have seven different developers of the property.
That is not to say that couldn't happen, if that is the way the site develops, but that is not the
intention. However, the buildings would come back to the Committee for ADLS review. The
detention area would have to be constructed up -front and it has been discussed with the neighbors
that the buffer area would be installed along with the detention—we could add that to the
commitments.
Steve Stromquist asked that the Committee keep in mind that this is a very difficult piece of land.
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No one wants to build residential on this site, and the neighbors don't want commercial at this
location.
Susan Westermeier asked the petitioner's thoughts about the required changes.
Kelli Lawrence said they could go to 10 -foot trees in the buffer area; the Urban Forester
recommended Hemlock. We did look at moving the site plan and developing less of the property.
With the location of the access point—it just didn't work. From the beginning, we have stated
that the bank only allows us to develop 7 of the 11 1 /2 acreswe do need the bank location. The
fencing around the dry detention —that is something we can potentially do. According to the
calculations, at a two -year flood event, the depth of the detention area would be 3.2 feet and
would drain within 25 hours. At a 100 -year flood event, the depth would be 6 feet and would
drain within 36 hours. The average is one foot of water, gone within 12 hours. The detention
will be a fenced -in, grassy area. We could potentially look at fencing within the surveyor's
easement, down on the slope of the detention area— probably a wrought -iron look fence.
Sue Westermeier confirmed that the petitioner needs to have a bank and that they are willing to
commit to a wrought -iron fence.
Kelli Lawrence said she could commit to a "wrought -iron look" fence, five feet tall, from the end
of the building to the southern edge of the Mitchner Ditch.
There was a lot of discussion about the ditch, the amount of water, how long a period of time the
water would be in the ditch, and if there would ever be water in the pond and not the ditch.
Steve Dauby said that the fence would limit access to the pond, and that would address his
concern. Berms were requested by the neighbors-5 to 6 foot berms and taller trees. The
petitioner said they are restricted because of floodway and floodplain, and easements from
installing a berm. We have come a long way—we are asking for berms and more shelter from the
development.
Wayne Haney commented that if he were living there, he would not want to look at Walgreens,
but the buildings designed here are far more residential in character. Also, the view from the
second story of the homes would look over any berm. Tall, dense tree plantings would seem to
be a better alternative than a berm. A berm would hide the view of the cars, however, with a two
story home, a berm would have no effect.
Kelli Lawrence said there would not be windows along the south side, especially in the southern
buildings. It is conceptual at this point and would return for ADLS review process.
Subdivision Committee member Carol Schleif commented that if the berm is higher than three
feet, trees planted on the berm tend to dry out. If there were evergreens —you can hide a whole
lot with thata substantial Norway spanning 20 feet can be purchased for $700.
Wayne Haney noted that the Committee is trying very hard to screen the view. Dense Evergreens
would be better than a berm —the trees could be staggered to screen the view
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Kelli Lawrence stated that the tallest trees would be in the foremost view of the neighbors, the 8-
foot trees would be behind them so that the largest trees are closest to the homes and the fast
growing trees are behind them. The homes to the south are at a level with the middle of the
subject site.
"Woody" Rider made formal motion to forward Docket No. 07070003 Z, 146" Gray
Rezone and Docket No. 07070004 PP, 146 Street Office Complex to the Plan Commission on
April 15, 2008 with changes as follows: the fence will run from the southeast building, all the
way around the dry pond to 146 Streeta wrought -iron -look finish at a minimum of five (5)
feet; and tree plantings will start at a minim of 10 feet, seconded by Susan Westermeier,
approved 4 -0.
9. Docket No. 08010011 DP /ADLS: Old Meridian Plaza (RA Franke Subdivision, lot #8A)
The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a 4 -story office /retail building. The site is
located at 12863 Old Meridian St. and is zoned OM/MU- Old Meridian, Mixed Use.
Filed by Ersal Ozdemir of Keystone Group, LLC.
Charlie Frankenberger, attorney, Nelson and Frankenberger appeared before the Committee representing
the Keystone Group. Also in attendance: Ersal Ozdemir, Keystone Group, and other members of the
development team.
The site is approximately 2.5 acres, located on the east side of Old Meridian, zoned Old Meridian Mixed
Use District. The proposal is for the construction of an up -scale office building to be known as Old
Meridian Plaza. The site will be fully landscaped in complete compliance with the requirements of the
Zoning Ordinance. The site does show a larger building, but it is uncertain if that will ever be built. If and
when there are plans to build the larger building, the petitioner will return for any needed DP /ALDS
approval.
In order to allow this landmark property, a Use Variance and Development Standards Variance were
reviewed and granted by the Board of Zoning Appeals. The Use Variance allows a veterinary hospital with
an indoor kennel. Dr. Tom Mullens and Dr. Julie Zugelder, veterinarians, are in attendance this evening.
The Development Standards Variances allowed the upper -story sun screens, and the number and location
of signs illustrated in the information booklets.
The Old Meridian Plaza will comprise 4 stories, 60,000 square feet; a mixed -use building designed within
the guidelines established by the City for the Old Meridian Corridor. The building is designed according to
the principals of New Urbanism; the buildings are brought up to the street and parking is to the rear.
Exterior building materials include two colors of brick, cast -stone and EFIS. The buildings comply in all
respects with the requirements of the Old Meridian Mixed Use District.
The site and building signage have been designed to minimize cluster and confusion, and promote safe
movement of vehicles and pedestrians. The signage is detailed in the information brochures and as
presented at full Plan Commission.
Department Report, Christine Barton Holmes: The Use Variance was heard at February 25 Board of
Zoning Appeals and approval was granted for a veterinarian facility with a fully enclosed kennel —the
anchor tenant for this development. The City Forester is working with the petitioner. The south property
line has plantings within the easement and this should be addressed. The Engineering Department has some
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loose ends on this project but they are comfortable with moving this item forward. The Department is
requesting that the petitioner utilize LEED practices as a guideline in construction and the Department is
requesting pervious pavers for parking stalls in the parking lot. At this time, we recommend forwarding
this item with a favorable recommendation.
"Woody" Rider is totally in favor of this project and thinks it will be a great addition to the area.
Susan Westermeier asked about the outstanding issues with Engineering.
Alan Fetahagic, engineer for the project said it was the location of the utilities and that has been moved
farther into the parking lot. Scott Brewer has stated that the landscape plan is acceptable —the trees have
been moved closer to the property line.
Wayne Haney was curious about the veterinarian and the kennel—is there a major tenant on the first floor?
Charlie Frankenberger said the veterinarian facility would occupy 6,000 square feet on the northwest
corner —two floors—kennel on the first floor. Extra measures will be taken to minimize and eliminate
noise for the kennel —the BZA felt comfortable with the proposal. The kennel will be under the office
space for the veterinarians. The dumpster enclosure is 6 feet tall and the enclosure is above the dumpster
itself. The structure will have a metal, solid gate.
"Woody" Rider made formal motion to forward Docket No. 08010011 DP /ADLS, Old Meridian Plaza
(RA Franke Subdivision, lot 98A) to the Plan Commission with a positive recommendation, seconded by
Wayne Haney, Approved 4 -0.
Note: Charlie Frankenberger commented that his understanding is that LEED or green standards are not
requirements of ADLS approval; after approval is granted, will consider. Pervious pavers will probably
not work. The site has already been designed to incorporate certain interior LEED practices--carpet,
wallpaper, etc all recyclable.
There was no further business to come before the Committee; the meeting adjourned at 8:15 PM.
Rick Ripma, Chairperson
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
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