HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes PC 05-20-08City of arme
D10
CARMEL PLAN COMMISSION
TUESDAY, MAY 20, 2008
Minutes
The Carmel Plan Commission met at 6:00 PM on May 20, 2008 in the Council Chambers of City
Hall, Carmel, Indiana. The meeting opened with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Members present: Leo Dierckman, Jay Dorman, Kevin "Woody" Rider, Rick Ripma, Carol Schleif,
Madeleine Torres, Susan Westermeier.
DOCS Staff in Attendance: Director Michael Hollibaugh, City Planner Angie Conn. Also present:
John Molitor, Legal Counsel.
The minutes from the April 15, 2008 meeting were approved as submitted.
John Molitor explained the Writ of Certiorari that each Commission member received in connection
with the Holiday Inn litigation. John Molitor suggested that the Commission delegate authority to
the Executive Committee to speak with attorneys and discuss strategy regarding litigation but
withhold the right to reach any potential settlement. Paul Vink of Bose McKinney Evans will be
working with John Molitor. Mr. Vink has worked with the City previously; he has also worked with
the Town of Fishers. In the meantime, the Findings of Fact will be prepared for review by the
Executive Committee. Only 3 members of the Executive Committee are required to take action.
Sue Westermeier made formal motion to approve allowing the Executive Committee to manage the
process with final decision resting with the entire Plan Commission, seconded by Carol Schleif,
approved 7 -0.
H. Public Hearings:
1H. Docket No. 08030037 CA: North Meridian Medical Pavilion
The applicant seeks approval to amend prior commitments regarding signage. The site is
located at 12188 N. Meridian St. and is zoned B-6/Business within the US 31 Overlay.
Filed by Paul Reis of Bose McKinney Evans for Meridian Medical Partners, One, LLC.
Paul Reis, attorney, Bose McKinney Evans appeared before the Commission representing the applicant. David
Campbell, Lauth Property Group was also in attendance.
Paul Reis gave a brief background of the project. A portion of the property was known as Williams Creek Farms
and was split off and rezoned from residential to B-6/Business. As a part of the Development plan for this project,
certain commitments were made concerning the development of the project, including directory and building signs.
S P1anCommission /Minutes/PC2008 /may20
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417
The original commitments are a part of the information packets submitted with the project material.
Two Development Standards Variances were granted by the Board of Zoning Appeals in March, 2008 to allow for a
ground mounted, building identification sign with tenant identification, conditioned upon the height being reduced to
eight (8) feet and limiting the number of tenant panels to four (4). In accordance with that, revised commitments
were prepared and tendered to the Commission for consideration this evening.
The two buildings are currently allowed to have wall signs along the US 31 fagade. The proposal includes a ground
monument sign. After much discussion and consideration, the petitioner agreed that it was in the best interest of
everyone involved not to have additional wall signage that would be visible to some extent to the neighboring homes.
The sign will provide identification for the tenants within the buildings as well as the North Meridian Medical
Pavilion. When the project initially went through the Commission, a major concern was the ability of the frontage
road to be able to handle the traffic for two medical office buildings and it was only going forward because of the
pending construction of Illinois Street. The signage is a critical need for the patients and visitors coming to the site.
The materials and colors of the sign have been chosen to match the building color and materials for the office
buildings.
David Campbell, Lauth Property Group addressed the Commission as to the importance of the signage, especially
during winter months, when patients come to this location sometimes at 5:30 in the morning and have the ease and
assurance of direction to the building. Wall signs would have been perfect, but it is understood that there would have
been an impact on the adjoining neighborhood. The monument sign would be very helpful to have in place; without
it, people would only drive by the building due to the setback. The monument sign is a good way to direct the
patients to the building site from either north or south.
Paul Reis summarized by saying the proposed amendments to the commitments are reasonable, simple, and keep the
spirit and intent of the overall commitments in place with the ground sign.
Members of the public were invited to speak in favor of, or opposition to the petition; no one appeared and the public
hearing was closed.
Department Report, Angie Conn: Since there are not enough Commission members present to suspend the rules and
vote on this item this evening, the Department is recommending this item be sent to the June 3, 2008 Special Studies
Committee.
Leo Dierckman recommended that the Special Studies Committee be given full authority to grant final approval on
this Docket.
Jay Dorman made formal motion to forward Docket No. 08030037 CA, North Meridian Medical Pavilion to the
Special Studies Committee on June 3, 2008, with full authority to grant approval, seconded by Carol Schleif,
Approved 7 -0.
I. Old Business:
1 -3I. Docket No. 08020021 DP Amend /ADLS Amend: Staybridge Suites
S:/ P1anCommission /Minutes/PC2008 /may20 2
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417
The applicant seeks site plan and design approval for a 3 -story extended stay hotel. The
applicant also seeks the following commitment amendment and zoning waiver approvals:
Docket No. 08020022 CA amendment of parcel's previous commitments
Docket No. 08020023 ZW Chapter 23E.09.E.1: building must face Pennsylvania St.
The site is located at the 10800 block of Pennsylvania St. and is zoned 13- 6/13usiness within
the West Home Place Commercial Corridor High Intensity area.
Filed by Jim Shinaver of Nelson Frankenberger for Hotel Development Services, LLC.
Jim Shinaver, attorney, Nelson Frankenberger appeared before the Commission representing the
applicant. Also in attendance: David Wespiser, managing partner of Hotel Development Services;
Chris Laystrom Woolpert Engineers; Jamie Browning on behalf of Browning Real Estate Properties.
Approval is being requested for an up- scale, extended stay hotel known as Staybridge Suites. The
applicant appeared at Public Hearing April 15 and was subsequently reviewed by Special Studies
Committee who voted a 4 -0 favorable recommendation to the Commission.
Jim Shinaver reviewed the site plan Exhibit for the project. A copy of the proposed zoning
commitments was sent to the Department Staff regarding prohibiting the piping of music to speakers
outside of the building, and a commitment to continue working with Scott Brewer on evergreen
plantings on the southern property line—replacing shade or ornamentals with evergreens. It is
understood that there are no major outstanding issues with the revised landscape plan. The petitioner
has also submitted a revised LEED memo requested by the Staff.
A site line drawing was submitted showing the southern elevation looking to the south. One
distinction on the site line drawing is that there is an enclosed pool house on the southern property
line—almost a two -story structure —there will be no rooms on that portion of the hotel and it will
block a lot of the sight line from the western portion of the building that faces south. Also, because
of the existing heavy tree cover, the petitioner believes that based on the configuration of the
building, the pool house will be blocking many of the rooms on the western portion. On the southern
portion of that building elevation close to the property line, there are actually no hotel room
windows, only hallways or stairwells windows. The hotel rooms that would face the south are set
back more to the north and are only on the second and third floor.
The topics of the prior 1999 commitments, the existing tree cover, and the approved prior office use
as opposed to the current proposed use have all been discussed. A perspective rendering was
provided showing the view of a motorist from Pennsylvania Street looking east. The only
outstanding issue in the Department Report is the trash pick -up time. The petitioner is agreeable to
commit to arrange a trash pick -up time agreeable to the neighbors to the south, Monday thru Friday,
AFTER 8:00 AM and until 7:00 PM if appropriate.
The petitioner is seeking a final, positive vote this evening and will prepare separate Findings of Fact
for the waiver and the Development Plan Amendment.
Committee Report, Rick Ripma: The committee discussed site lines, how car lights might affect the
neighbors. One concern is the insertion of shade trees rather than evergreens in the commitments.
There is still concern regarding a 24/7 facility close to the neighborhood. Rick Ripma still had a
S P1anCommission /Minutes/PC2008 /may20
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417
basic concern of changing commitments in- place. However, the petitioner has done a nice job on
this proposal and looks like a "good neighbor."
Department Report, Angie Conn: The Department recommends this item be approved after all
concerns have been addressed.
Jay Dorman asked a procedural question on the timing of re- submission of this project in the event it
is voted down this evening. Are six votes needed to approve this evening?
Rick Ripma pointed out that Section 4, item 2 of the Commitments refers to shade or evergreen
types —the idea of the taller trees was to block the view in the winter —shade trees to do not work.
Jim Shinaver confirmed that the petitioner did agree to evergreens —any reference to shade trees or
ornamental will be eliminated.
Carol Schleif asked the height of the trees at planting-25 foot tall trees are shown —are you
planting 25 foot trees?
Jim Shinaver responded that the trees shown are mature trees. The height of the evergreen trees at
the time of planting will be six (6) feet. The Urban Forester did not want extremely large trees
planted because they may choke out some of the other trees being planted.
Carol Schleif said that would not prevent the homeowners from seeing the buildings in the winter
months and it will affect their property values. I know we talked about privacy, but homeowner
value is going to be affected here. The building is 40 feet closer than what was approved the first
time around, and it is two or three times the size. Carol's understanding from discussions with Scott
Brewer was that the 6 foot -tall trees were more for street trees that were not attended and no one
took care of the landscaping. From a personal standpoint, Carol said she had moved 20 -foot trees
and none of them died—evergreens. So, it can be done. If you are only going to put in 6 foot -tall
trees, that is a problem. Were the p -tack units removed?
Jim Shinaver responded that the p -tack individual air conditioning units will remain. The
manufacturer that David Wespiser selected and uses was selected because they have a quiet product.
The petitioner would not want to install any product that would be loud, not only because of the
neighbors but the clients who would be sleeping in the rooms as well. A central system of air
conditioning may not be as "green friendly" as the individual units or as efficient. It is possible that
everyone will not be turning on/off the air conditioning at the same time. There is also quite a
separation and distance from where these units may appear. Again, the units would not be in the
stairwell area; the units would exist primarily on the second and third floors at the main part of the
southern elevation, away from the neighbors.
The trees were talked about at Committee. Photographs were displayed of the existing tree cover.
Around the southern portion of the site and wrapping to the eastern portion, there are approximately
79 mature trees on site. Of the 79 trees, only about 19 will be removed as a result of this particular
project; some are being removed because they are close to or within the building footprint.
Evergreen trees are being added that are 6 feet in height; there are also existing evergreen trees on
S:/ P1anCommission /Minutes/PC2008 /may20 4
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417
site. There may be a difference of opinion, but from the petitioner's perspective, there is significant
screening. If you look at the previous plan for office use as it relates to the proposed use and
property values, there are negatives to the office building previously approved: more pervious
surface, parking was shown behind the office building that would be closer to the southern property
line., and there did not appear to be as much landscaping on the office plan as is provided with this
particular plan. Also, there is not a significant difference between an extended stay facility and an
office building. There is not 24/7 intense activity every day. During the work week, the facility may
run about an 80% occupancy rate; the rate drops to 50% on the weekends. It is not as if there is
intense activity 24/7 at the facility -the main Check -In time is Monday and Tuesday, main Check
Out time is Thursday and Friday.
Even though the underlying zoning is B -6, and even though the Overlay does permit a hotel, the only
reason we have to seek an amendment to the prior commitments goes back to approvals that
occurred in 1999. We may have a difference of opinion, but we do this the proposed facility is a
compatible use and a good use; we do not feel this facility would have a negative impact on property
values.
Carol Schlei£ "After taking the real estate exam, and doing what I do for a living, I strongly
disagree. Three out of the four buildings have no protection whatsoever, and I took your drawing
and drew the lines —they are going to be fully visible from those residences —three stories —and that
facade that they would be looking at the most and the closest is very plain and I think that would
have an effect. As far as turning off the p -tack units, that is usually done when housekeeping comes
in and takes care of the room; people leave their settings on heating and ventilating and air
conditioning —they walk out of the room all the time. So, housekeeping is the one that would take
care of that and I don't think....p -tack units are a much lower cost heating and ventilating system
you've got central heating and ventilating in the hallways because you said it is positive pressure
you just need to get some bulkheads out you can do it you know....it will just cost you a little
money. I am a little concerned that this project is a lower budget than what is going on next door
which is a classy......"
Jim Shinaver respectfully disagreed —the development is not lower budget. The noise issue from the
a/c units —you must take into consideration that there is considerable distance between where the
rooms would be.....
Carol Schlei£ "50 units it is huge —and I would suggest that you go to a motel and listen to what
a row of 10 of them sound like. Another thing is the elevations with those p -tack units. You've got
windows filled with vents for the p -tack units right underneath, and no variation in the full length of
the building. I'm trying to find some reason, some very special reason to let this go through but I
have not heard a good reason to do that. At this point, the Overlay doesn't matter commitments
are what need to happen here. The office that was agreed to initially is a much lower footprint and
much less impact, even though it was four stories. This is a huge building and there is not a whole
lot of interest going on. I'm looking for something special here and I am just not seeing it.?
Jim Shinaver pointed out that there is an existing tree cover all along the property line........
Carol Schlei£ "It's only deciduous—it is only five (5) or six (6) months out of the year."
S:/ P1anCommission /Minutes/PC2008 /may20 5
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417
Jim Shinaver' response: "There are some trees that are NOT deciduousI definitely don't want
to......."
Carol Schleif "I just went out there to check your drawings, and without getting out and measuring,
your drawings are pretty good, but..."
Leo Dierckman said that if there are strong feelings about this project, a Commissioner could vote
"No." We are not compelled to send this back to Committee —the Committee would probably not
prefer that. Leo said he had a great deal of confidence in the Committee review.
John Molitor explained that if this Docket was adversely decided this evening, the lock -out rule
would apply; this means that 12 months would have to elapse from the time of vote before it could
be presented again. There is a lock -out period of 6 months before a different plan could be presented
for this site. A third option would be a rezone with no lockout period.
Madeleine Torres made formal motion to approve Docket No. 08020021 DP Amend /ADLS
Amend, Staybridge Suites, seconded by Kevin Rider. The vote was 5 in favor 2 opposed
(Dorman, Schleif) resulting in a no- decision vote.
Docket No. 08020021 DP Amend /ADLS Amend, Staybridge Suites will return to the June 17,
2008 Plan Commission meeting.
4I. Docket No. 07010008 Z: 116 Guilford Rezone
The applicant seeks to rezone approximately 9.5 acres from I -1 /Industrial to R -1 /Residence.
The site is located at 1441 S. Guilford Rd. Filed by the Carmel Dept. of Community Services
on behalf of the Carmel Plan Commission.
Michael Hollibaugh, DOCS Director appeared before the Plan Commission on behalf of the
petitioner. This particular petitioner was initiated by the Department shortly after the property was
advertised "For Sale" in 2007. It is the City's intent to rezone this property to R -1 /Residential,
although there is no development plan associated with this petition and none is proposed.
At the April Committee, concern was expressed rezoning the property to residential because of the
possible impact on the land value. It was noted that the current transformer /power station would
remain on site.
At the May 12 Subdivision Committee meeting, the City provided a list of permitted uses they would
like to see on this site; the attorney representing the property owners did likewise. The City does not
feel that retail uses should be permitted on this site but would not be opposed to B -2 or B -6 zoning
with certain uses excluded from the list of permitted uses. The Committee felt that a school or
residential use should not be permitted due to the transformer location and prior industrial use at this
location.
The Department would like an action vote at this time, but would accept return to Committee for
further review.
S:/ P1anCommission /Minutes/PC2008 /may20 6
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417
Committee Report, Carol Schleif: There was lengthy discussion regarding the possible uses for this
property. The Committee put together a list of permitted uses at the May 12 meeting and excluded
certain uses such as cultural, industrial, and retail uses. The attorney representing the property
owners also distributed a list of land uses they would like to see instituted. The Committee
forwarded this item to the Plan Commission with a 3 -0 favorable recommendation together with the
list of permitted uses discussed.
Department Report, Angie Conn: Angie confirmed that the Department is open to rezoning to M-
3/Manufacturing with commitments, or B -1 /Business. At this time, the Department recommends this
item be forwarded to the City Council with a positive recommendation after all concerns have been
addressed.
Leo Dierckman noted the length of time from the initial public hearing on this petition to the present
and suggested this item be returned to the Committee for further review.
Docket No. 07010008 Z, 116 Guilford Rezone was referred to the Subdivision Committee
meeting on June 3, 2008 for detail review.
There was no further business to come before the meeting; the meeting adjourned at 6:50 PM.
Leo Dierckman, President
Ramona Hancock, Secretary
S P1anCommission /Minutes/PC2008 /may20
7
ONE CIVIC SQUARE CARMEL, INDIANA 46032 317/571 -2417